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Renting Windows

~ Cirrus ~

~ Cirrus ~

Prowler
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
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1,291
Here's come the new Renting Windows ! :confused:

Ok so that's an idea I've got long time ago, and I wonder why this is not already ingame for 10 years now ?

Makes Renting easier and safer. :wise:

A renting window that looks like the PvP Trade one, but whith a timer.
You can set it from 1 Hour to 7 Days for an example.

3 windows;

1 for the Item (Only UL Full TT items can be rent ?)
1 for the Price of Rent.
1 for the prospective repair needed at the end of renting time.
This last one should be the Price of full Item TT.
At the end of timing, when the item come back to the storage of its owner, it's fully repaired using this money, and the residual go back to the guy who rented the item.
(Or the owner simply get back his item + PED needed for full repair)

This would maybe create a whole new market.
No need a huge collateral anymore (how it is now, only the guys able to buy an item can rent it).
This would help also people who simply want to lend something to a friend. (And probably relieve MA whith less support cases like "I lent this and the guy didn't give it back")

What do you think ? :)

PS:

Why not enlarge the NPC's familly also, and give auctioneers a brother ?
Where players could put their items to rent.
I guess MA would take a small... tiny... fee. :rolleyes:
 
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ya nice - This proves that people really are thinking about deep problems in EU. Hope MA takes notes.
 
The idea has been posted a lot of times over the years.
 
Spawn said:
The idea has been posted a lot of times over the years.
Click to expand...

Well I guess I'm not the first one to whish this.. :dunce:
But I've never seen one post. (I don't read everything on this forum for sure. :))

Anyway, if it has really been asked so much times, then the question is why MA don't do it ?
Isn't it in their interest ?
Do they think people would deposit less money if they don't need huge amount to have access to some nice item ? :confused:
 
Was such a scary headline realy necessary?
 
Spawn said:
Here's mine from 2009:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?170216-Loan-system&highlight=Lending+system
Click to expand...

In your post, what's happen when you lend a full TT FireForge 9300 Modified (15K) and then you get it back whith only 500ped TT on it ? :eek:

So maybe the missing part in all these post was this:

3 windows;

1 for the Item (Only UL Full TT items can be rent ?)
1 for the Price of Rent.
1 for the prospective repair needed at the end of renting time.
This last one should be the Price of full Item TT.
At the end of timing, when the item come back to the storage of its owner, it's fully repaired using this money, and the residual go back to the guy who rented the item.
(Or the owner simply get back his item + PED needed for full repair)
Click to expand...

I don't know... :dunno:

Anyway, if you really whish this to be ingame one day, then why not continue to ask for it.
I guess the more people want it, the more chance MA do it one day..
 
~ Cirrus ~ said:
If you explain why you think rental could be bad for EU, it would change your useless post for something really useful.. :)
Click to expand...

Maybe follow the link that was posted and get it from the horses mouth.
 
Xen said:
And MA rejected it, thankfully.
Click to expand...

It was Nighthawk's personal opinion before he was MA. But sums it up nicely anyway.

Also yes, it's against MA's interests because less ped get stuck in storages.
 
I do not want to be forced to rent things all the time over just buying them.
 
Xen, I read what you said in link, and I'm not sure this could be a real problem.
That's probably right, some people whith load of money would buy items only to rent it, but these people are already the only ones that can afford these items..
And we know that alot of them are already on rental. (whith huge collateral)
So what's the difference in the end ?

But maybe it's right, these items would may be stuck forever on one guy account..
I don't know anywmore..

Well anyway, if this is right:

it's against MA's interests
Click to expand...

Then it will not happens.
End of story I guess.. :rolleyes:
 
It seems so logical and desirable, yes. But there is a flipside to it. MA probably thought this through and found it would have a toxic effect if they bestowed a select few with the right items at the right time with a very, very easy work-free income. Those items might never be traded again. Also there is very little incentive for the owner of such an item to continue playing, let alone competing when just creaming it off forever is the most rational choice. As it is now, if you win e.g. a top weapon in an event or buy one for a little fortune, you need to continue competing to recoup your effort, or pass it on to someone else if not successful. It keeps the whole Kicksey-winsey rolling.
 
Svarog said:
It was Nighthawk's personal opinion before he was MA. But sums it up nicely anyway.

Also yes, it's against MA's interests because less ped get stuck in storages.
Click to expand...

That was not the only place, though.

It has been many years this has been requested and MA has never done it, and it wouldn't be very difficult to program.

It would not only be bad for MA it would be bad for the economy overall.
 
'Renting'
Clarification about Entropia Banking Operations
Since we released news about the virtual banking licenses, several questions regarding loan services and banking affairs within Entropia Universe have been raised. The main concern has been the lending of items for interest. We feel that we need to clarify our policy about this.
Recently MindArk PE AB issued official virtual banking licenses. These licenses comprise a secured bank system for processing loans and securities in the form of items. All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.
By contrast, loan services offered outside this official bank system cannot be guaranteed by MindArk. If an item is exchanged between avatars, this transaction will be logged as a regular TRADE. And as all trades are final, MindArk will not investigate claims if a loan giving avatar refuses to return items or money.Many people do not fully understand the true value of their virtual items until they are lost. They will then contact MindArk PE AB for assistance and will realize that we cannot help them; this can cause a lot of unnecessary grief and frustration.
We do not wish to discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe, but based on experiences from community feedback and support case history, unfortunately not all entrepreneurs offering loaning services are trustworthy members of the Entropia Universe and therefore we need to be strict in our policies in order to protect the community from scams and cheating.
Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.
Click to expand...
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...H-amp-R-Circle&p=681145&viewfull=1#post681145

Added functionality to the banks could be interesting... Your idea to do it similar to a trade window is interesting... it is an idea proposed previously, of course, but still worth some merit in consideration.

I've personally always though 'renting' that does happen all of the time gives major advantage to a very select few... it's pretty obvious who rented something if you look at top lists in some recent events... Should Mindark do something to stop it... well, as above quote says they consider all 'loans' as a scam attempt, but THEY LET IT HAPPEN ALL THE TIME, ALMOST DAILY... so just another example of Mindark saying one thing and doing something completely different.

Behind the scenes, I don't think Mindark could code the lending service without some major coding changes... so it won't ever happen... They couldn't even get us Halloween gifts the Planet Partners (or at least Cyrene) prepared this year, so do you really trust they'd do a new lending system properly without bugs?
 
Oh hey.. the annual renting post that happens just before christmas event. Little early this year. :p
 
atomicstorm said:
Oh hey.. the annual renting post that happens just before christmas event. Little early this year. :p
Click to expand...

Considering your mindset that this comment shows very well, it will be hard for you to believe, but there is some people in this world who don't do only selfish things, who don't do only in their own interest...
Yes, there is few, but there is some. :yup:

I didn't participate in last Mayhem, I don't know if I will participate to the next one.
I own nothing I could put on rental, and I don't plan to rent anything..

Also, why people would do that right before Xmas event as you said ?
Do you really think MA will code a rental system in the next 2 weeks ? :scratch2:

Really usefull comment... Next time don't waste your time. :rolleyes:
 
Well, there is some interesting comments, but also a lot that are irrelevant...

There is something I don't get here.
People are saying that this thread has been made a lot of times for ages.
That means alot of people would like to get this rental system ingame.

But it's not clear here.

Most people don't tell if they want it or not, they just tell "MA don't want it".
But in fact, we just dont know, MA never said that.
OR maybe I don't know, please show me.
So far, the only official answer I've seen is from Marco (2005) only saying "it's not a priority". (13/14 years, indeed it was not a priority :rolleyes:)

Also, some people tell it would be bad for economy of the game, but nobody can explain why. :wise:

As an afterthought, I think you simply don't know if it would be good or bad, for you, for MA, and for the game itself.
And maybe even MA is not sure about it. :confused:

For now I can't see why it would be bad.
There is already alot of items sleeping in some storages for sure.
Put them on a rental and this is money for MA (fee), money for the renter, and a new item for the guy who rent it then he will play more and so cycling more money.

Maybe I don't fully understand it, there is probably some parameters I don't get here..
Just tell it if you know them, I'm full of curiosity and like to understand things. :)
 
~ Cirrus ~ said:
Well, there is some interesting comments, but also a lot that are irrelevant...

There is something I don't get here.
People are saying that this thread has been made a lot of times for ages.
That means alot of people would like to get this rental system ingame.

But it's not clear here.

Most people don't tell if they want it or not, they just tell "MA don't want it".
But in fact, we just dont know, MA never said that.
OR maybe I don't know, please show me.
So far, the only official answer I've seen is from Marco (2005) only saying "it's not a priority". (13/14 years, indeed it was not a priority :rolleyes:)

Also, some people tell it would be bad for economy of the game, but nobody can explain why. :wise:

As an afterthought, I think you simply don't know if it would be good or bad, for you, for MA, and for the game itself.
And maybe even MA is not sure about it. :confused:

For now I can't see why it would be bad.
There is already alot of items sleeping in some storages for sure.
Put them on a rental and this is money for MA (fee), money for the renter, and a new item for the guy who rent it then he will play more and so cycling more money.

Maybe I don't fully understand it, there is probably some parameters I don't get here..
Just tell it if you know them, I'm full of curiosity and like to understand things. :)
Click to expand...

If you can't think things through possible consequences, perhaps you shouldn't be making suggestions.
 
Xen said:
If you can't think things through possible consequences, perhaps you shouldn't be making suggestions.
Click to expand...

So far you haven't been able to give a single valid argument, so perhaps you should stop waste your time telling vague things that everybody could tell..
What's the point ?

Each time you will do it you will just reinforce the idea that you CAN'T explain why a rental system would be bad. :)
 
Sigh... it's been explained 50000 times. You just can't be bothered to find it.

So for the 50001st time... (and I'll try to keep it simple, just for you)

A strong economy is created by trade. Trading between players is the lifeblood of EU, and the more of it there is, the better. It's what keeps the market going.

A rental system reduces the incentive to trade, and therefore the volume of trade. It is therefore bad for the economy.

Xen is right, people shouldn't post suggestions without thinking them through, but they continually do, and worse still, MA sometimes listen to them.
 
~ Cirrus ~ said:
Considering your mindset that this comment shows very well, it will be hard for you to believe, but there is some people in this world who don't do only selfish things, who don't do only in their own interest...
Yes, there is few, but there is some. :yup:

I didn't participate in last Mayhem, I don't know if I will participate to the next one.
I own nothing I could put on rental, and I don't plan to rent anything..

Also, why people would do that right before Xmas event as you said ?
Do you really think MA will code a rental system in the next 2 weeks ? :scratch2:

Really usefull comment... Next time don't waste your time. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Maybe we're just tired of the same rehash. All the information you need to know about this topic and why it isn't going to work or ever be implemented can be found among this same type of thread opened every year almost in the exact same time.

~ Cirrus ~ said:
So far you haven't been able to give a single valid argument, so perhaps you should stop waste your time telling vague things that everybody could tell..
What's the point ?

Each time you will do it you will just reinforce the idea that you CAN'T explain why a rental system would be bad. :)
Click to expand...

More like you just can't be bothered to go back to the other threads we've told you exist. You want to waste everyone's time to rehash this exact same topic because you're too lazy to go search.
 
Cirrus, you can put "lending system" or "rental system" in the search box. Then you will find a lot of threads about this. A lot of different people have requested it, almost as much as the people who requested a shopping directory.
You will find a lot of arguments for and against it.
I think Xen may have posted his arguments in several of those threads. And maybe he's tired of explaining it for the gazillionth time.

Here's my arguments pro:

- less item scamming
- try before buy
- collateral, a thing of the past
- more competition in events
- ubers with items which never sell because people SEE, that there is no golden goose item, can still make some ped.

My arguments against a lending system:
- L item crafters stop
- markup for those items diminishes
 
Yup destroy L armors and guns market, so also mining and hunting MU, then cry about low MU more than now.
Way to go :wtg:
 
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Thank you to make it simple for me Oleg, but I think it's way too simple in your mind.
Volume of trade is not enough to make what you call a "stong economy", neither IRL or ingame.

The base of it is the "factors of production", and this concept is very different ingame for sure.
And even ingame, it is way more complex than simply trades between players to get a "strong economy".

Secondly, rental IS trade.

And anyway, I'm not sure that a rental system would reduces volume of sell/buy.
In order to put something in rental , you will have to buy it..


As for the few high end items that you guys are afraid to see stuck in a single account forever.. I'm afraid it's already what's hapening anyway..
And these items are already available for rent.. :yup:

Thanks Spawn, at least you give arguments here, then it's more constructive than simple Sophism.. :)

- L item crafters stop

I don't see this coming, it don't think there is enough nice UL items ingame for every players.. Far from it.
And I use (L) weapons now cause I can't afford an UL one, do you realy think I will rent one everyday for 50ped/day ? And so after 3 months I would have paid the price of the gun itself and still own nothing... No :)

- markup for those items diminishes

If you talk here about the UL items to rent, why an item that becomes a "golden goose" as you said, would loose some MU ?
I guess MU would increase significantly.

Again, I don't tell I know perfectly all of this, and I can't predict the futur.
But we needs valid arguments to talk about.

Most of you guys talk as if they know everything but are not able to give a single one...
It seems like you have personnal interest in this but can't tell it..
Do you craft (L) stuff ? :rolleyes:
 
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