High MU on low efficiency weapons?

Detritus

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Detritus the Troll
This is just a curiosity point. I notice that guns like the Piron PBP UL series usually sell for pretty high MU; but these guns have sub 30% efficiency, so why on Earth would anyone use them? I would expect them to go for TT +10 or such, not TT +400. Some secret tinfoil hat theory surrounding these?
 
Although they have low eff/eco they're also SIB and therefore maxed at low levels. Better to use a PBR-20 at lvl 30 than a stark AS-147 with poor hit/dam, and arguably better to use than paying markup on L weaps.

You could get a decent SIB weap but then you have to fork out 5-10kped, so the piron have their place.
 
30 % or 70 % efficiency doesnt matter much today, you even will produce bigger globals which can be good for looting L-items, ESI and more
 
Although they have low eff/eco they're also SIB and therefore maxed at low levels. Better to use a PBR-20 at lvl 30 than a stark AS-147 with poor hit/dam, and arguably better to use than paying markup on L weaps.

You could get a decent SIB weap but then you have to fork out 5-10kped, so the piron have their place.


Ah I see, that makes sense. I guess if you are skilling up it would likely be a cheaper alternative to paying a bunch of MU on L guns.
 
30 % or 70 % efficiency doesnt matter much today, you even will produce bigger globals which can be good for looting L-items, ESI and more

Doesn't matter much except for 2.8% less TT return, but hey that's only about a 5600ped/month difference for me....
 
Doesn't matter much except for 2.8% less TT return, but hey that's only about a 5600ped/month difference for me....

How do you make up this math?

Also what is the maximum expected TT return based on effiency rating? For instance 91% as far as i know i the highest in-game?

What would be the expected TT return longterm with that?
 
How do you make up this math?

Also what is the maximum expected TT return based on effiency rating? For instance 91% as far as i know i the highest in-game?

What would be the expected TT return longterm with that?


MA officially stated that efficiency accounts for 7% of your return. Therefore a 40% difference in efficiency is 2.8% difference in return.
 
MA officially stated that efficiency accounts for 7% of your return. Therefore a 40% difference in efficiency is 2.8% difference in return.

only if its linear. but it might as well be that the difference between 70% and 80% is much higher than the difference between 30% and 40%. i havent done or seen any tests regarding this and it will hard to make one i guess
 
30 % or 70 % efficiency doesnt matter much today, you even will produce bigger globals which can be good for looting L-items, ESI and more

These do tend to land higher globals, but decay & upkeep offset that profit. I used the PBR-10/15/20 for the longest time... got great rewards... spent an arm and a leg in decay. Its just a trade-off.
 
These do tend to land higher globals, but decay & upkeep offset that profit. I used the PBR-10/15/20 for the longest time... got great rewards... spent an arm and a leg in decay. Its just a trade-off.

I'm curious, since you've actually tried it. If we put the efficiency difference aside (lower return) and focus on DPP for a sec, they state that DPP impacts the quality of loot composition. So instead of ESI and L items as Dollymaus claims, I would expect more shrapnel. Did you find this to be the case?

It seems to me the only really benefit to a low DPP weapon like this would be to farm globals on an LA that rewards per global.
 
I'm curious, since you've actually tried it. If we put the efficiency difference aside (lower return) and focus on DPP for a sec, they state that DPP impacts the quality of loot composition. So instead of ESI and L items as Dollymaus claims, I would expect more shrapnel. Did you find this to be the case?

It seems to me the only really benefit to a low DPP weapon like this would be to farm globals on an LA that rewards per global.

That's a cool observation
 
So instead of ESI and L items as Dollymaus claims, I would expect more shrapnel.
I guess you should try to hunt when items are "on" - stuff comes in waves - but I agree usually the wave is "switched off"

hunting for globals for rewards is another nice idea :)

Doesn't matter much except for 2.8% less TT return, but hey that's only about a 5600ped/month difference for me....

I bet you wouldnt turnover 200 K a month with a Piron PBP and I still doubt this game is "100 % personal lootpool free" so this 2,8 % is like a worst case szenario for me
 
Well the thing about esi and weapons is they only come in bigger multis (talking proper esis here to 10pedders) , and tho you wont get more multis with shit guns the higher tt value of the multi (which is what you will get) give better chance at full tt gun/higher tt esi. Dpp shouldnt effect gun/esi drops much as its mostly just lower shrap : other stackables ratio. Now is it enough to make up for that shitty tt return and loot comp, well thats something youd have to math out and test yourself. Cant hold your hand all the way.
 
I'm curious, since you've actually tried it. If we put the efficiency difference aside (lower return) and focus on DPP for a sec, they state that DPP impacts the quality of loot composition. So instead of ESI and L items as Dollymaus claims, I would expect more shrapnel. Did you find this to be the case?

It seems to me the only really benefit to a low DPP weapon like this would be to farm globals on an LA that rewards per global.

i have hunted for about 100k kills points on kerb alphas and doms with a 83% efficiency fen weapon and a piron gun with something in the 30s efficiency (both the same amount of peds cycled) and i found that the average MU is nearly exactly the same. it does get offset a little bit as i found a kallous6 with the piron which i didnt find with the fen but the shrapnel to muscle oil ratio was close enough to the same to not notice a difference.

what i did find though is that i had zero positive runs (of approx 2k ped size each) with the fen and one slightly positive run after MU with the piron (100,xx%) but with the fen i almost always had runs in the range of 87-95% tt return and with the piron on same run size i was swinging between 99% and 83% tt return. both ended in nearly the same 93% tt return. need to say tho that i had pretty bad loot in general. 2 or 3 global with piron (2x 50 ped +- and once 11x peds) and just one with the fen of 70ish peds iirc
 
i have hunted for about 100k kills points on kerb alphas and doms with a 83% efficiency fen weapon and a piron gun with something in the 30s efficiency (both the same amount of peds cycled) and i found that the average MU is nearly exactly the same. it does get offset a little bit as i found a kallous6 with the piron which i didnt find with the fen but the shrapnel to muscle oil ratio was close enough to the same to not notice a difference.

what i did find though is that i had zero positive runs (of approx 2k ped size each) with the fen and one slightly positive run after MU with the piron (100,xx%) but with the fen i almost always had runs in the range of 87-95% tt return and with the piron on same run size i was swinging between 99% and 83% tt return. both ended in nearly the same 93% tt return. need to say tho that i had pretty bad loot in general. 2 or 3 global with piron (2x 50 ped +- and once 11x peds) and just one with the fen of 70ish peds iirc

How much total ped cycle was that? It matters not a whole lot as statistics if it's too low.
 
How much total ped cycle was that? It matters not a whole lot as statistics if it's too low.

its about 5k to 6k kills each so about 10 k peds on the fen and a little more on the piron. but if there would be a noticable difference you would see it somewhere
 
i have hunted for about 100k kills points (....)

Cool data, thanks for the input.

How much total ped cycle was that? It matters not a whole lot as statistics if it's too low.

Everyone asks this whenever someone provides data, but I think it's a misguided question. The amount of PED cycled is completely irrelevant, it's the number of data samples that provide statistical significance.

If I kill 10,000 Carabok I will cycle 300 ped.

For twice that cycle amount, I can kill about 16 Big Bulk Gen 10.

Which run do you think will be more statistically meaningful?
 
its about 5k to 6k kills each so about 10 k peds on the fen and a little more on the piron. but if there would be a noticable difference you would see it somewhere
Depends on a lot of factors. Did you hunt at same hours and for the same amount of time every hunt with both weapons? I don't really see 5-6k kills as longterm data though, so it's possible your return rate could be worse with piron and better with the more efficient weapon eventually.

Everyone asks this whenever someone provides data, but I think it's a misguided question. The amount of PED cycled is completely irrelevant, it's the number of data samples that provide statistical significance.

If I kill 10,000 Carabok I will cycle 300 ped.

For twice that cycle amount, I can kill about 16 Big Bulk Gen 10.

Which run do you think will be more statistically meaningful?
It's obviously the carabok. Of course it's based on amount of kills but more peds cycled = more kills. I asked to figure out how many kills he did.
 
It's all relative. People are paying 50...80 PED for old TT guns, and that barely makes any sense at all. So why not pay 300 PED for something slightly bigger? :laugh:
 
I looted quite a few of theese Pirons and i always thought they where very good for low cat mayhem events, they r also dirt cheap to tier.
 
i have hunted for about 100k kills points on kerb alphas and doms with a 83% efficiency fen weapon and a piron gun with something in the 30s efficiency (both the same amount of peds cycled) and i found that the average MU is nearly exactly the same. it does get offset a little bit as i found a kallous6 with the piron which i didnt find with the fen but the shrapnel to muscle oil ratio was close enough to the same to not notice a difference.

what i did find though is that i had zero positive runs (of approx 2k ped size each) with the fen and one slightly positive run after MU with the piron (100,xx%) but with the fen i almost always had runs in the range of 87-95% tt return and with the piron on same run size i was swinging between 99% and 83% tt return. both ended in nearly the same 93% tt return. need to say tho that i had pretty bad loot in general. 2 or 3 global with piron (2x 50 ped +- and once 11x peds) and just one with the fen of 70ish peds iirc

Well apart from statistics and efficiency proclamations by Mindark.. ask yourself the question: When is my run profitable?
For me it is a run where I have enough multipliers, or a big multiplier. My tip would be not to look at the weapon stats so much (to a certain extent) but more at the mob you hunt and the probability it will drop your multiplier.

If you can profit not getting the multipliers, that's just fine (you are among the 2% of players where this still counts), but that hasn't been the case for me since they "fixed" the axe 1x0,nerfed the amps, took the korss out of the feffoid loot and made sure BTAU and ATAU didn't drop ever again.

If the ever growing amount of new high eff weapons were all profitable just plain shooting all the mobs you see in front of you, combined with the fact that Mindark said in the past that the mod merc and the other high eco weapons were "a mistake" and would never drop again.. then you might come to a certain conclusion.
 
30 % or 70 % efficiency doesnt matter much today, you even will produce bigger globals which can be good for looting L-items, ESI and more

I don't know, I'm starting to beleive that efficiency matters more than ever, to overcome declined globals.

You know when the system lags and thinks about your loot for 20 seconds, deciding if it wants to pay your due global or not...then finally drops a few shrap. (I've love to know whats going on under the hood with that). Then you go bck to instant loots again until the next time a global is due.

Well if you running more efficiency you can last more declined globals over time. That's my take on that anyway.

I actually find that loot lag annoying irritaing if you depoist, but that's another debate.

Rick
 
You know when the system lags and thinks about your loot for 20 seconds, deciding if it wants to pay your due global or not...then finally drops a few shrap. (I've love to know whats going on under the hood with that). Then you go bck to instant loots again until the next time a global is due.


Seems obvious, but I could be wrong. Since during this time you can still damage mobs, it means that the servers that you connect to are handling the bulk of the events (object translation, anim triggers, damage RNG, etc). When you loot, those servers query a backend server or cluster which is obviously getting overloaded at times or perhaps has a poor network connection.
 
Seems obvious, but I could be wrong. Since during this time you can still damage mobs, it means that the servers that you connect to are handling the bulk of the events (object translation, anim triggers, damage RNG, etc). When you loot, those servers query a backend server or cluster which is obviously getting overloaded at times or perhaps has a poor network connection.

I find the timing and current return during those moments of loot lag a coincidence, it's almost as if there's a limiter on return values. Say the system automatically allows 25 ped loots, but anything bigger needs a server confirmation.

Not only that it's the number of times it would occur. Now take last night; When I logged in I see the claws were already found (soon after the servers came up I guess). So I thought sod it, MM is just a few days away, I'll go easy and do some Kerb elites (since they gave 26 mission points a kill, and was new mission counter MA introduced).

I killed over 16K points of kerbs, and had that loot lag twice over 4 hours of killing roughly. That means I killed over 600 shared elite kerbs solo, and had a global opportunity twice (and in my view both of those were declined). I did some agro hunters after that, until I said to myself your taking the p*ss now and stopped.

ok...there could be other variables. Maybe location pool, maybe even low skill value obtained to enable a trigger. But even if there was a low value of skill gain to trigger a global, this kind of makes a farce of the whole issue of not bing penalised for going lower mobs or lower weapons. So what message are we supposed to take from that?

I actually think MA were cleaning me out pushing for a new desopit before MM starts. It's interesting from a perceptive point of view of the game and money required, as I was only chatting to a guy that hunts big mobs all the time recently in chat.

I said the problem with £100 depo, around 1200 peds is that it's not enough ped to turn on average mobs. His view was it was loads of ped turnover....then of course the penny drops. His managed view of what ped is required is a very different view of what is "allowed" on other avatars.

Interesting stuff anyhow.

Rick
 
Mr. England, your posts are always interesting. I'm not arguing with you, but I think you have way too much confidence in MA's abilities.
 
Mr. England, your posts are always interesting. I'm not arguing with you, but I think you have way too much confidence in MA's abilities.

Money makes people very able beings indeed Mr Detritus :)

Look; it is what it is. We all have our limits of acceptable. I don't get emotional over EU anymore, but I'm still very intrigued and fascinated how the system rolls under the hood.

Rick
 
Money makes people very able beings indeed Mr Detritus :)

Look; it is what it is. We all have our limits of acceptable. I don't get emotional over EU anymore, but I'm still very intrigued and fascinated how the system rolls under the hood.


Fair point, but money does not beget competence.


As far as what it looks like under the hood, have you ever seen a plate of spaghetti? :D
 
Fair point, but money does not beget competence.


As far as what it looks like under the hood, have you ever seen a plate of spaghetti? :D

You get to choose which strings to pull on, with a tasty plate like that put in front of you :tongue2:

Have a good day, I better get on with my chores.

Rick
 
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