Question: FEN Eco weapons and amps

RickEngland

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Dear community;

If I get hold of one of the new say FEN eco weapons, and the efficiency reduces adding an amp, would it be wise to run it without an amp attached to get max eco from the weapon?


Thanks

Rick
 
Depends on which weapon gun or claw
 
Say I buy a "Thorifoid Berserker Mace FEN Edition" that has 79.8 eco, so adding anything lower than a Mod VIII or X amp will reduce its eco right?

Also wiki says that club is 3.456 damage per pec, so its not far off a Unique Reaper's Blade at 3.509 damage per pec.
Is it fair to assume that both those weapons are almost as good as each other in cost to use?


Thanks

Rick
 
They say Eff effects TT returns. But on what scale we don't actually know.

DDP effects composition of loot. So higher DDP less shrapnel, more items. So higher DDP on good MU mobs should be a win win according to MA logic because you should be able to pull more MU from items.

This isn't really fully confirmed as tests out there with 100k's cycled don't show much difference in TT returns with high Eff guns.

Sooo, really who fucking knows lol
 
They say Eff effects TT returns. But on what scale we don't actually know.

DDP effects composition of loot. So higher DDP less shrapnel, more items. So higher DDP on good MU mobs should be a win win according to MA logic because you should be able to pull more MU from items.

This isn't really fully confirmed as tests out there with 100k's cycled don't show much difference in TT returns with high Eff guns.

Sooo, really who fucking knows lol

Wasn't the difference between 0 and 100 eff 7% more TT loot ? So 1 eff equals 0.07% more TT return

If you want to add an amp or not depend on the reduced eff vs 10% of your heal and armor decay you have saved compared to no amp, assuming you get back 90% of that in tt loot. (my assumption, not a proven fact)
 
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It depends on what mob you're hunting and what your goals are.
Some weapons are worth using unamped, while others are enhanced with an amp. Other times having the extra DPS is more important than the extra DPP/efficiency.
 
I hope people understand the tier costs with these.
Most of the FEN items need 60k+ to tier to 10
T3 alone for most of these is at the 10k mark.

This is not something that is factored into that DPP equation.
A real good example of this is the arson chips,
Arson TEN is 125 ped to tier to 1
Arson FEN is 1100 ped to tier to 1

You can get a t6 arson for like 7k ped
you've spent more than 7k on the 1st 3 tiers alone with arson FEN ( not even considering the chip cost), and you still aren't matched in DPS to an arson TEN t6.

So for that extra efficiency that is only a part time source of damage, is it really worth paying 30k+ for the same effect? More importantly, how long would a chip that only gets used sometimes need to make that cost back? DPP is not everything to consider. Heck we didn't even cover how horribly slow arson chips are to tier due to the fact they are only clicked at most every 10 seconds. Ok, I guess we did but you get the point. :)

It may be cheaper, and more beneficial for the player to raise DPS with much cheaper, already tiered guns for markups, versus spending so much PED on the slow % return back over time that will not be matching old gun max DPS (to raise mu) for quite some time.



In the case of the corrosive, the amp makes quite a difference in positive dpp.

Dream with caution. :)
 
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I find the easiest way to think about this, assuming that you have enough headroom for the damage of the amp, is consider you are simply using two separate weapons at the same time, one of which is your amp.

So using a weapon and an amp, you can simply think of it like you are using a weapon, then an amp at the same time to do damage.

So say you have a 91% eff gun and an 85% eff amp. Then you can say your loot is a weight combination of the two, and they each contribute separately.

Not sure if that makes sense...
 
Thoughtful.... thanks for the replies so far folks,


So say you have a 91% eff gun and an 85% eff amp. Then you can say your loot is a weight combination of the two, and they each contribute separately.
.

Sure I get the two weapon part, it's if it's having a detrimental effect of the combined efficiency that concerns me. Although truth is we can all guess, but none of us really know how it works under the hood.

I bought one of those Maces anyhow considering it's supposed to be super efficiency. Call it the last roll of the dice for my 13+ years here trying to make some progress. One more shot so to speak.


I'm 10/10 on it, but get the feeling it's looking for skills as well...before it will show me the money. Did some runs with amp some runs without. Seems you need an amp attached to pop some globals though.


Time will tell. I see another one listed in auction few mins ago (think it was the original looted one), if anyone wants a weapon for "cost to use" close to unique reaper sword, then go take a peek at it.

Laters and thanks.

Rick
 
It lowers your tt return a negligable amount, saves defense costs and allows you to cycle faster/get more loot events per hunt. Depends on the EV of what youre doing but assuming you bought fen to profit and are hunting smart its normally best to amp as you make more ped per hour even though your tt return is in theory a bit less just due to the massive dps increase.
 
It lowers your tt return a negligable amount, saves defense costs and allows you to cycle faster/get more loot events per hunt. Depends on the EV of what youre doing but assuming you bought fen to profit and are hunting smart its normally best to amp as you make more ped per hour even though your tt return is in theory a bit less just due to the massive dps increase.


I'm running that Mace with VI amp so the eff drops from 79.8 to 79.2 still good I guess.

I don't actually believe the game will give me profit, I'll believe it when and if I see it (smiles). However if it gives me a chance to loot something nice then that's a start. Plus if I deposit less then it will be worth it.

Based on all the other profs I've skilled you need 6K base skill in the weapon before it starts to show improvement. I'm a little under 5K clubs at mo. I'll give it a chance.

Thanks

Rick
 
I'm running that Mace with VI amp so the eff drops from 79.8 to 79.2 still good I guess.

I don't actually believe the game will give me profit, I'll believe it when and if I see it (smiles). However if it gives me a chance to loot something nice then that's a start. Plus if I deposit less then it will be worth it.

Based on all the other profs I've skilled you need 6K base skill in the weapon before it starts to show improvement. I'm a little under 5K clubs at mo. I'll give it a chance.

Thanks

Rick

Yeh thats a very small diff ~0.04% tt return barely noticeable over any sample, seems like a no brainer to amp. Ofc the game will never give you profit, but it will take less with this sort of setup making it much easier to fill the gap and even go past it into profit land with markup.
 
I'm running that Mace with VI amp so the eff drops from 79.8 to 79.2 still good I guess.

I don't actually believe the game will give me profit, I'll believe it when and if I see it (smiles). However if it gives me a chance to loot something nice then that's a start. Plus if I deposit less then it will be worth it.

Based on all the other profs I've skilled you need 6K base skill in the weapon before it starts to show improvement. I'm a little under 5K clubs at mo. I'll give it a chance.

Thanks

Rick

You have been using the adjusted boiga. That's not a bad weapon at all eco wise (3.001 and 61 eff with a decent amp).
I have it too. it's really nice. But you don't profit with it. Ofcourse you can test yourself using one of these super weapons. But you know the answer to your question already.
The only times you profit, is when you have enough nice multipliers. So the goal shouldn't be the highest eff weapon, but where/when/how to get your multipliers. But ofcourse I could be wrong. I have never actually held a 79 eff weapon. Good luck!
 
I know a few who own the bp20 FEN 83.2% eff , they have tens of thansands of mob kills and I can assure you it’s defo possible to profit
 
I know a few who own the bp20 FEN 83.2% eff , they have tens of thansands of mob kills and I can assure you it’s defo possible to profit

Oww its possible to profit all right. I profit a lot.
 
You have been using the adjusted boiga. That's not a bad weapon at all eco wise (3.001 and 61 eff with a decent amp).
I have it too. it's really nice. But you don't profit with it. Ofcourse you can test yourself using one of these super weapons. But you know the answer to your question already.
The only times you profit, is when you have enough nice multipliers. So the goal shouldn't be the highest eff weapon, but where/when/how to get your multipliers. But ofcourse I could be wrong. I have never actually held a 79 eff weapon. Good luck!

I have mixed feelings about Adjusted Bolga Whip, it is lovely for taming and therefore brilliant for adding a ton of levels to looter skill. Since many taming support skills go towards looter skills.

Although since the recent updates and introduction of new eco, I've lost confidence with using it as a hunting weapon. If I go back a few MM's I did a lot of Adj Bolga on Merry Mayhem kerbs and even got a few small hofs if I remember to tick over skilling. But I'd be wary to do that now, I did shared elite kerbs solo with it at Fort Troy just before this MM and well...it was not good. Something changed under the hood. Plus whip sadly doesn't give commando, so you're not getting the HP gains to trigger loots.

This was one reason I searched for a new way forward and bought an Adjusted Det sword sometime ago, which I absolutely rate 100%. In fact at the moment I trust it more than the new Mace, but that could be skill requirement issue. (the mace and sword do give commando). I've not checked if the mats required for Adj Det sword are still available, but if you can get hold one I would highly recommend it. Once over 6900 longblades it shows true promise. Its just that little bit stronger and faster than Ark swords which I think makes the difference. The pro level requirement for it 10/10 hit ability is much lower of course, but I think the return rate is still based on high skill levels.

Melee is quite interesting over the last 6 months. I'm pretty confident that if you dump shrap to TT, it doesn't calculate a loss instead of converting to uni-ammo. Whereas trading sharp does "appear" to calculate you used it......it's quite interesting that one, and I've not quite got to the bottom of it.

Now as you say what and where you hunt makes a difference. One problem I had with taming for a long while, is I felt I was feeding the pool on that server (devils and dragon at Atlantis). I ran a ton of whips+amps at 60 ped lose per whip, but pushed on anyway (stupidly maybe), I also had a lot of good even runs too. Hey-ho I got those skills now so its's done.

I don't always like to push on in events, but that's where most of the peds are going. So I often feel "its event hunting or nothing". I don't have the knowledge or contacts to know "where" to go.....smiles. But I do get the feeling that unless you're ready for a hof and on some list, then moving away from event could be worse.

MA say long term efficiency matters. I tend to use the best weapon I can get hold of, rather than what profession it's related too. People used to rave about Mod merc, well some of these FEN have far superior stats, so we should be happy to trust them right? laughing.....who knows.

Rick
 
Yeh thats a very small diff ~0.04% tt return barely noticeable over any sample, .


ok Brilliant thank you very much Bigpimping for the calc, that gives me a lot of confidence now.
I'll stick with VI amp then.

Once I get to 7K skill with it I'll consider a better amp. Who knows by then MA might bring in other amps with additional features.

I know a few who own the bp20 FEN 83.2% eff , they have tens of thousands of mob kills and I can assure you it’s defo possible to profit

Smiles. ok confidence growing.:D

Get your eco FEN while you can.

GN.

Rick
 
While im glad youre excited about your new setup and chapter in EU (you should be) I would advise some caution about having too high expectations, its not a magic wand. You will still have 85% tt return hunts, you will still goo long periods without a multi, you will still lose TT longterm. But you will lose less TT longterm and loot less shrap:stackables so with a solid supporting cast of items and the right mob choice/bankroll and ability to sell your loot at nice mu you can profit and beat the game. Its not automatic still requires work, patience and smarts.

Not to be a party pooper wish you best of luck with your new toys, have just seen some people buy a new gun and think its like imp mk2 in loot 1.0 where you just buy it, point it at something and profit and it isnt. Realistic expectations will make your experience better and help you plan out your strategy.
 
Gz on the new weapon :D Just be careful don t go after mobs too big, the loot swings are painful if you don t have a big enough budget to cover a few bad runs
 
What is the new weapon?
 
Can't sleep, so in for chat.

What is the new weapon?

Thorifoid Berserker Mace FEN Edition. It was listed for 15000 ped in auction, so I pulled out the credit card and bought it. That pirate that looted all the FEN stuff listed it. I thought with all these 50K or 80K prices flying around for FEN, it was my only chance to get something good. Maybe it was too much, maybe not.

Gz on the new weapon :D Just be careful don t go after mobs too big, the loot swings are painful if you don t have a big enough budget to cover a few bad runs

Hey nut thanks. I'm a bit old school in EU. Trox, Rex, Max FFA2 or CP dome 1 and 2 kind of hunting for me. So that Mace fits nice with my hunting style. MA are pushing L80 - L140 mobs, nahhhh not for me.


While im glad youre excited about your new setup and chapter in EU (you should be) I would advise some caution about having too high expectations, its not a magic wand. You will still have 85% tt return hunts, you will still goo long periods without a multi, you will still lose TT longterm. But you will lose less TT longterm and loot less shrap:stackables so with a solid supporting cast of items and the right mob choice/bankroll and ability to sell your loot at nice mu you can profit and beat the game. Its not automatic still requires work, patience and smarts.

Not to be a party pooper wish you best of luck with your new toys, have just seen some people buy a new gun and think its like imp mk2 in loot 1.0 where you just buy it, point it at something and profit and it isnt. Realistic expectations will make your experience better and help you plan out your strategy.

I tend to view it as managing MA's expectations as well....smiles. Are we really going to roll over and say hey MA thanks for telling us eco is the best thing since slice bread, but if you want to change your mind that's cool?

Nahh I'm not taking that. I paid for something cool, I want it to perform and pay. If it doesn't then its all bollocks isn't it. I'm not asking for tons of profit,... I'm asking for tons of runs and turnover. Seems reasonable to me.

I'm certainly going to think about hunting stuff that has some better MU in 2019, I think you're right there. Focus on certain mobs. I've even started doing some research.

I don't want long periods of boredom either, I want globals, and hofs, loot with items. I want to be entertained. We've got so used to being rammed up the arse in previous years it's becoming the norm to say "it going to really really hard struggle, boring with hardly any hofs". Is that really how its going to be, with the best 'new' items in the game? I wont last long into 2019 if that's how it turns out :)

Besides what message does that send to the noobies out there. I'm pushing 400K skills soon, that's got to count for something.

Big smile.


Rick
 
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