Money is power – MindArk business model based on (lack of) trust.

And if you don't invest in proper tools it will continuously take from you and give it to the ones who earns it.
It would be unfair to give it back to you if you don't deserve it.


good joke :laugh:
 
good joke :laugh:

Well, the sad thing is that you think it's a joke.
Messi doesn't joke, and he doesn't have a sense of humor.

Adjust your play style if it isn't working for you.
 
Well, the sad thing is that you think it's a joke.
how's that not a joke? How did i deserve a 4.6k mining tower after 6 month mostly EP I crafting over someone who was mining for 4+ years and never seen a tower? please explain.

Adjust your play style if it isn't working for you.

if the game doesn't give the necessary multipliers (you are unlucky), you can change your play style as much as you want, it doesn't help at all...
 
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Well, the sad thing is that you think it's a joke.
Messi doesn't joke, and he doesn't have a sense of humor.

Adjust your play style if it isn't working for you.

Thats true.
 
I noticed that some accounts on the forum have '|MindArk' suffix in the name. Can we expect some feedback from them? Is it possible to somehow 'tag' them here or make them respond? I guess I have presented some conclusions which should be also commented by them - I value every input. As I said, financial data they provide is limited so I would have some more questions to them. Also, some questions regarding the real cash economy 'experience' thing and also about their communication with Spel Inspektionen - I am speaking here particularly about analysis of the wording of the legal act - Swedish Lotteries Act - and its interpretation presented by Lotteriinspektionen.

After many of you had your voice, it would be good to see also some explanation directly from developers - this is important to moderate this discussion in the right direction.

Regards,

boring_player
 
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and also about their communication with Spel Inspektionen - I am speaking here particularly about analysis of the wording of the legal act - Swedish Lotteries Act - and its interpretation presented by Lotteriinspektionen.

Search is your friend. It's all in here (somewhere). It's not like this hasn't been discussed to death already.
As for a reply by devs.. fat chance. The people that sometimes reply here, reply about game content.
 
Search is your friend. It's all in here (somewhere). It's not like this hasn't been discussed to death already.
As for a reply by devs.. fat chance. The people that sometimes reply here, reply about game content.

Discussed by far mostly in the light of Strongboxes ban. Nothing so far about definition of 'Gaming platform' & 'Legal definition of lottery' - see below example provided by Spel Inspektionen:

Eva has a user account on a computer game platform called Gaming. She can play various computer games on the platform. On the Gaming platform it is possible to buy virtual Gaming coins with real cash. Eva can use the virtual coins to buy virtual objects that have varying value in the computer game. In one of these computer games, Eva takes part in an activity that is determined by chance. Eva wins a virtual object. She sells this virtual object to another user on the Gaming platform in exchange for virtual Gaming coins. She then cashes in the Gaming coins for real money that the Gaming platform transfers into her bank account.

In the above example, Eva has taken part on the Gaming platform in a lottery according to the Swedish Lotteries Act for the following reasons. Firstly, she has won something through chance. Secondly, her prize has financial value in the real world because she sold the prize and this resulted in real money being transferred into her bank account.

The next step is to decide if the Gaming platform has arranged a lottery in Sweden. This would be the case if the operator of the Gaming platform (a limited company, for example) had its main business in Sweden. If it is considered that the operator of the Gaming platform has conducted a lottery in Sweden, then the event is considered to be covered by the Swedish Lotteries Act and thus it would be forbidden to arrange such an event without a licence.

Sounds familiar?

Source: https://www.spelinspektionen.se/en/press-contact/notes-archive/random-prizes-in-computer-games/
 
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Discussed by far mostly in the light of Strongboxes ban. Nothing so far about definition of 'Gaming platform' & 'Legal definition of lottery' - see below example provided by Spel Inspektionen:



Sounds familiar?

Lazyness doesn't help you. Here's one (there are a lot more in here), please use the search button to the top right. It's not hard. It's quite easy.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...inspektionen&p=3430705&viewfull=1#post3430705

As for lootboxes, I think they may change that according to whenever the law gets changed.
In Sweden that's the case, In the Netherlands not yet (Law is pending in the Dutch senate)
 
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Lazyness doesn't help you. Here's one (there are a lot more in here), please use the search button to the top right. It's not hard. It's quite easy.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...inspektionen&p=3430705&viewfull=1#post3430705


Thank you for providing although I was thinking more about discussions made post Loot 2.0. (This is a discussion form 2015 - maybe I did not notice something but I do not see any recent topic about it) - old Return To Player principals and winnings distribution have nothing in common with new Act that is in power since 01.01.2019. Previous example I provided comes form recent analysis when the Act was being created, February 2018, and are in power since January 2019. So Eva's example I provided in my recent post is also most likely in power since 01.01.2019. I am afraid that 2015 discussions have nothing do to here - I don't think they had any chance to discuss interpretation of 2018/2019 Act back in 2015. :) I said it before in this topic and will quote it again: Lex retro non agit.

I am talking specifically about comparison of the Act with Loot 2.0 system and Entropia mechanics in the light of Spel Inspektionen interpretation and definitions of Gaming Platform and Lottery.

Regards,
Boring_player

BTW, FYI: My knowledge of Swedish ends here, If you speak good Swedish you can check it here:

https://www.svenskforfattningssamling.se/sites/default/files/sfs/2018-06/SFS2018-1138.pdf
 
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I notice in your name the mindark competitors suffix. What is your interest? the disappearance of the game? because it's obvious, you're not worried about the community. You are a boring player but you are not interested in leaving the game, just to people do not play this RCE game . But do not worry, it is normal that most of people have Mindark suffix in their names. We played this game 15 years ago and we are not bored. That's why we neither leave nor want to destroy it. Here ends your thread for me. Close the door when you go out to your other games..we will not miss you.
 
Many people send me private messages in which they show a lot support and say I shouldn't bother with such comments in which I am accused of being a competitor, market speculator, pissed of long-time gamer but still, I feel I must respond:


You are a boring player but you are not interested in leaving the game, just to people do not play this RCE game .

Let me quote myself form post nr 55 an re-stated in nr 130:

My article is a theory – my goal was to write unbiased text which will be informative and will benefit both MindArk (a little wake-up call) and players (raise of awareness about MA finance). I do not want you to quit or join the game. I do not want to take away your pleasure you have while playing the game. I am a liberal – I believe you should do whatever you want to do and spend your money in whatever way you like as long as it does not hurt innocent people. I do not judge anyone. Particular reason why I back this project and write my opinions is its uniqueness – as someone stated before, this game is unpolished diamond that could shine. But there is plenty of work to do – first you must recognize the issues. I believe my both articles do that.

Also nr 130:

And last but not least -you have asked so many times about my motivation that I had to actually sit and think again why have I exactly done what I've done. For sure, MindArk's finances are nice case-study for me as their business profile is very interesting. At that time I thought you could freely withdraw all the money, that kept me asking so many financial-related questions and check their actual financial situation. Since I know now that they do not guarantee all withdrawals, most of my financial-related questions are answered.

Little reminder, we discuss the business model here and trust issues. Topic has evolved towards 6 month deposit rule and new gambling act which is in power since 01.01.2019. I find this direction interesting and correct. Next time you feel urge to throw some mud on me without contributing to the topic in any way, use private message - it will help readers to retrieve the information they want.

Regards,
boring_player
 
Without trust it is hard to build anything.

In 12 years ingame Mindark never failed to commit any of the withdrawal i initiated.
It seems important to me to underline it!

I don't want to get to deep into the subject.
I appreciate that you took the time to deal with the public financial datas as well as questioning a few thingd, brings another percepective to my way of dealing with them.
Obvious it is that they can't repay the total PED available ingame, i currently do not see a situation where they would need to do so.
Meanwhile, i am waiting on the financial of 2018 to see if they have done any better (to those who mention income of CLD 2018 they are irrevelant data since loot system changed).

I'll join you on the hope that they find a way through this muddy terrain they are in right now and may the community be heard.
 
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I noticed that some accounts on the forum have '|MindArk' suffix in the name. Can we expect some feedback from them? Is it possible to somehow 'tag' them here or make them respond? I guess I have presented some conclusions which should be also commented by them - I value every input. As I said, financial data they provide is limited so I would have some more questions to them. Also, some questions regarding the real cash economy 'experience' thing and also about their communication with Spel Inspektionen - I am speaking here particularly about analysis of the wording of the legal act - Swedish Lotteries Act - and its interpretation presented by Lotteriinspektionen.

After many of you had your voice, it would be good to see also some explanation directly from developers - this is important to moderate this discussion in the right direction.

Regards,

boring_player

First if you want an answer you should try to ask a question.. :confused:

Secondly, what does MA owe you ?
Why should they react to this thread ?

You said you works IRL in financial analysis.
And that's the way you do it ?
You usually create a thread on public forum to ask a company if their product is in accordance whith the law ? :scratch2:

What you are doing here is obvious, it's called "opinion manipulation". :wise:

I will not waste too much time here, cause anyway this thread will fade away as it should.

Just saying EU is far from perfect, but for sure it's no lottery.
Lottery is randomness, and there is ingame alot of parameters that "breaks" randomness. :whisper:

If you really want to know it, play the game. :yup:
 
Thank you for providing although I was thinking more about discussions made post Loot 2.0. (This is a discussion form 2015 - maybe I did not notice something but I do not see any recent topic about it) - old Return To Player principals and winnings distribution have nothing in common with new Act that is in power since 01.01.2019. Previous example I provided comes form recent analysis when the Act was being created, February 2018, and are in power since January 2019. So Eva's example I provided in my recent post is also most likely in power since 01.01.2019. I am afraid that 2015 discussions have nothing do to here - I don't think they had any chance to discuss interpretation of 2018/2019 Act back in 2015. :) I said it before in this topic and will quote it again: Lex retro non agit.

I am talking specifically about comparison of the Act with Loot 2.0 system and Entropia mechanics in the light of Spel Inspektionen interpretation and definitions of Gaming Platform and Lottery.

Regards,
Boring_player

BTW, FYI: My knowledge of Swedish ends here, If you speak good Swedish you can check it here:

https://www.svenskforfattningssamling.se/sites/default/files/sfs/2018-06/SFS2018-1138.pdf

"Through chance." Those are the 2 key words. The old link still applies.
Entropia is skillbased and knowledge based. Loot 2.0 is quite similar to loot 1.0, with the difference that a higher looter level gives more loot, you have to skill this looter level. So loot 2.0 is more skillbased than loot 1.0
In your Example, if Eva started playing this game she would have to skill up to get anywhere near an item that's worth 1000 peds ( minimum withdrawal boundary).
Even if Eva was using the crafting machine to get a big loot, she would have to be using explosives III at least .
So, Eva has to skill up to be able to use that blueprint.

Can you name An Activity in Entropia that doesn't require skill and can give enough ped for a withdrawal? ( Only requiring chance)
(Excluding lootboxes, which cannot be bought by Swedish people)
 
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In your Example, if Eva started playing this game she would have to skill up to get anywhere near an item that's worth 1000 peds ( minimum withdrawal boundary).
...
Can you name An Activity in Entropia that doesn't require skill and can give enough ped for a withdrawal? ( Only requiring chance)
(Excluding lootboxes, which cannot be bought by Swedish people)

Better not tell Eva about Crafting Mania then... a potential win from a 2 pec crafting click "explosive I" worth 3k peds or more to other players (according to recent price check thread which I ultimately agreed with after a slow start on my part ;) ).

I reckon it's a very tricky subject, but skill and luck often combine in business without it all being considered gambling! EU is a virtual business world based around commodities which have good times and bad times, we just don't get to see the bad harvest periods as clearly as in real farming! :eyecrazy:
 
"Through chance." Those are the 2 key words. The old link still applies.
Entropia is skillbased and knowledge based. Loot 2.0 is quite similar to loot 1.0, with the difference that a higher looter level gives more loot, you have to skill this looter level. So loot 2.0 is more skillbased than loot 1.0
In your Example, if Eva started playing this game she would have to skill up to get anywhere near an item that's worth 1000 peds ( minimum withdrawal boundary).
Even if Eva was using the crafting machine to get a big loot, she would have to be using explosives III at least .
So, Eva has to skill up to be able to use that blueprint.

Can you name An Activity in Entropia that doesn't require skill and can give enough ped for a withdrawal? ( Only requiring chance)
(Excluding lootboxes, which cannot be bought by Swedish people)

Entropia is luck based, once you're maxed out.

Player A & Player B craft the same item on full quantity, both use QR 100 BP, both are the same skill level.

Player A gets a times 1000 multiplier within the first 500 clicks.
Player B gets 4 times 10 multipliers within 1000 clicks.

Player A doesn't have any more knowledge nor skill than player B, player A just got lucky...

And if there are players who always get their multis before they're supposed to get it, they're always above 95% return. And those who always get their multis later than they're supposed to get it, they never see 95% return.

Has neither to do with skill nor with knowledge, it's just about luck.
 
Entropia is luck based, once you're maxed out.

Player A & Player B craft the same item on full quantity, both use QR 100 BP, both are the same skill level.

Player A gets a times 1000 multiplier within the first 500 clicks.
Player B gets 4 times 10 multipliers within 1000 clicks.

Player A doesn't have any more knowledge nor skill than player B, player A just got lucky...

And if there are players who always get their multis before they're supposed to get it, they're always above 95% return. And those who always get their multis later than they're supposed to get it, they never see 95% return.

Has neither to do with skill nor with knowledge, it's just about luck.

Once you're maxed out...
 
Has neither to do with skill nor with knowledge, it's just about luck.

Luck only take part if you have a limited budget in a short period of time.If you extend your activities on a 6 months + there is no such thing as luck.You will get exactly what you deserve.
Multi doesn't come as you think.Its not a hidden multi per activity.They are a result of your activities.
 
Better not tell Eva about Crafting Mania then... a potential win from a 2 pec crafting click "explosive I" worth 3k peds or more to other players (according to recent price check thread which I ultimately agreed with after a slow start on my part ;) ).

I reckon it's a very tricky subject, but skill and luck often combine in business without it all being considered gambling! EU is a virtual business world based around commodities which have good times and bad times, we just don't get to see the bad harvest periods as clearly as in real farming! :eyecrazy:

2 PEC you say. Let me try that. Nope, I got a near success.
Should I try again?
 
Luck only take part if you have a limited budget in a short period of time.If you extend your activities on a 6 months + there is no such thing as luck.You will get exactly what you deserve.
Multi doesn't come as you think.Its not a hidden multi per activity.They are a result of your activities.

ofc there is luck. a lot of it even. there are people hitting big multis every 5k mobs / crafts / drops over a large timeframe and there are people who just dont hit those for whatever reason. yea maybe after 100 billion kills it evens out but thats not achievable. ive seen swings of >20% on 20k kill samples quite frequently

on top of that you need to do the exact same level until you hit that needed multi. like doing big trox all day for weeks and then do the dailys once you will surely hit the big multi on the small foul or chirpi instead of the big trox. you can NEVER hunt a smaller level until you hit that cos once the multi is gone its gone.
 
Luck only take part if you have a limited budget in a short period of time.If you extend your activities on a 6 months + there is no such thing as luck.You will get exactly what you deserve.
Multi doesn't come as you think.Its not a hidden multi per activity.They are a result of your activities.

12 months 360,7k PED turnover 93,21% return... would expect to be close to their target return (95+%) wouldn't you?

You're confusing being lucky with having done anything to deserve it, but well, as experiments have shown, after a while lucky people just think they would have earned/deserved it and totally forget about just having luck...
 
U guys are all wrong and I have proof!
For 7 or so years now, didnt go for "luck" I went for "gutfeeling" and it worked and is still working!! Now all can profit :laugh:

For more secrets pls order my book "Secrets of Entropia Universe" for only 1million peds :wise:
 
Luck only take part if you have a limited budget in a short period of time.If you extend your activities on a 6 months + there is no such thing as luck.You will get exactly what you deserve.
Multi doesn't come as you think.Its not a hidden multi per activity.They are a result of your activities.


Oh, and you never been to casino before... :cool:
 
U guys are all wrong and I have proof!
For 7 or so years now, didnt go for "luck" I went for "gutfeeling" and it worked and is still working!! Now all can profit :laugh:

For more secrets pls order my book "Secrets of Entropia Universe" for only 1million peds :wise:


Guts feelings is when you aim for it and get it.

Luck feelings is when you don't aim for it and you get it.

I would prefer luck feelings than guts feelings :cool:
 
And if you don't invest in proper tools it will continuously take from you and give it to the ones who earns it.
It would be unfair to give it back to you if you don't deserve it.
You play the game as a casino and you deserve to lose.Enjoy the free drinks inside though.

When investing takes hundreds of thousands of peds...

Messi I was playing this game well before you were around, i did exactly what you did and it always ended out with them getting the upper hand, never have i played the game like a slot machine but I am also not going to as you say "invest?" into a game tens of thousands... its a game and a poorly developed one at that... ide rather invest it in something progressing towards the future such as Star Citizen.

Would you be willing to back up that all the funds you put into EU profit you now? show us your bank balance of EU ins and outs etc...

Some how I doubt it... just like I doubt the largest hunting ATH being legit... and more of a stunt.
 
When investing takes hundreds of thousands of peds...

Messi I was playing this game well before you were around, i did exactly what you did and it always ended out with them getting the upper hand, never have i played the game like a slot machine but I am also not going to as you say "invest?" into a game tens of thousands... its a game and a poorly developed one at that... ide rather invest it in something progressing towards the future such as Star Citizen.
...

What messi said is pretty much how it works here, and to a similar extent, how real life works too; EU is a mini real-life simulator.

Length of time in EU doesn't mean you know more. It's the consistent Results you get in the time that show us you know more.

You can play EU like a game, depo $10+ us a month. Play EU like a business, depo 10k+ us and watch roi.

I put my entire savings here some years ago, and the passive Interest Rates from EU is still 3x better than my banks. The people who risk more, bring more value, should be paid more here, just as in real-life.
 
Would you be willing to back up that all the funds you put into EU profit you now? show us your bank balance of EU ins and outs etc...

That would be an information you would not afford.I can show you a picture of my avatar for free if you want.I think that's the most you can obtain right now.
Cheers
 
You can play EU like a game, depo $10+ us a month. Play EU like a business, depo 10k+ us and watch roi.

or you depo $200 in the first two years, then play like a business and watch roi, unless you keep getting bad return, then the money may stagnate untill the hof for 95+% return happens....
 
or you depo $200 in the first two years, then play like a business and watch roi, unless you keep getting bad return, then the money may stagnate untill the hof for 95+% return happens....

The thing with playing EU like a business is you need cashflow. Just like RL. If your cash flow is too low... you can't really do much, or you will have to just trade non-stop until you have peds for properties. 200 is only enough for a 1 cld or some hobby trading.
 
The thing with playing EU like a business is you need cashflow. Just like RL. If your cash flow is too low... you can't really do much, or you will have to just trade non-stop until you have peds for properties. 200 is only enough for a 1 cld or some hobby trading.

ofc someone who can depo $20000 will have it way easier than someone who can depo only $200, no arguing there.
 
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