Money is power – MindArk business model based on (lack of) trust.

yeeck said:

Come on... u are telling me, Sweden's laws are not strict ? easily to be broken / get away or people easily being corrupted and get away with it ? You are saying Auditor just check the sign off the Audited Accounts?

I am not going into details, and I assumed that you understand Auditors, their works and code of conducts. Finding a truth and fair view is not 100% achievable BUT there are more than just analysis, findings, documentation & controls to be evaluated.

If you think answering an audit queries is piece of cake? For 1st 2nd 3rd, maybe is easy to convince... let see the 4th.

Anyway, Auditors wont take this forum article as findings. Why so serious?

Click to expand...

Small business audits by small time accountant agency's are written mostly written by people who wanna continue working for their client creating a situation where bias is inevitable.


Government auditors are a bitch.

If any, this thread should be read as empowerment.

We hold the key, we should be more aware of that and have fun while guiding our universe in a direction that we want.

Mindark can do with a wakeup to improve their culture catering more to the above mentioned.

44 employees for a update/vu with 3-5 changes is not acceptable in my opinion. Create a timeline and start checking boxes.

mg Joda VVV said:

If any, this thread should be read as empowerment.

We hold the key, we should be more aware of that and have fun while guiding our universe in a direction that we want.

Mindark can do with a wakeup to improve their culture catering more to the above mentioned.

44 employees for a update/vu with 3-5 changes is not acceptable in my opinion. Create a timeline and start checking boxes.

Click to expand...

I also asked, in a thread created months ago, what were those 44 people doing, because we see almost no development in the game. Still baffles me the ammount of people they have working there compared to what little work they show to their clients (us players).

This thread started very interesting, with the possibility for a larger discussion on important topics. Too sad that forum trolls/conspiracy theorists ruined it.

BackBone said:

This thread started very interesting, with the possibility for a larger discussion on important topics. Too sad that forum trolls/conspiracy theorists ruined it.

Click to expand...

The thread remain interesting.

It has nothing to do with forum trolls ruining anything.

Don't underestimate "motive" of the OP.

If the op would have just played a year before posting it might have been completely different.

No play time. No posts. No known involvement into this game.
I just want to know why? Why this post?
Why even bother?
Why wanting to be such a smart ass on the first post you make on a forum, pretending you fully understand the game and concept.

Even though sometimes we all make war with each other on the forum, we do have 1 common goal, to keep our beloved (and hated) universe.
And then some noob comes, trying to disrupt it by dropping some smart ass remarks about the financial statement.
Which every long time player should have already been aware of.

I'm very surprised to see all these "surprised" reactions about what he stated.
It's all old news.

Why emphasizing this old news?
Whats the motive I then ask.

yeeck said:

Why so serious?

Click to expand...

(edit: ...I agree with Joda's comment...)

Well, the topic itself is 'serious', which is reason enough to discuss differing opinions seriously. There is a saying that it's good to trust, but better to check anyway. That is, unless some 'demon' is let loose that helps nobody, in which case many people prefer to turn a blind eye to things. Many many things are better left alone than scrutinised, so in that sense you are absolutely right that it can be good to not be 'so serious'

On the topic at hand, it has been pointed out that new players have increasingly further to go in order to 'get anywhere meaningful' in terms of in-game skills. Do they trust themselves or the platform enough to dedicate more and more resources (time and money) to make progress?
This growing question is one reason why I really really like the idea of gaining skills which have value across various games, and that one avatar can move around participating MMOs with an accrued skillset. For me, that is one solution to the issue of trust, in a similar way in which banks collectively secure (to a limited amount) the accounts of a bank which may collapse. Unless you have a massive sum in your account, your deposits are safe.

It would be great if our skills could be 'safe' in the same way, even if one particular company goes under. I find it interesting that ND wants to achieve this, even though I'm not traditionally keen on the person as such.

wizz said:

The thread remain interesting.

It has nothing to do with forum trolls ruining anything.

Don't underestimate "motive" of the OP.

If the op would have just played a year before posting it might have been completely different.

No play time. No posts. No known involvement into this game.
I just want to know why? Why this post?
Why even bother?
Why wanting to be such a smart ass on the first post you make on a forum, pretending you fully understand the game and concept.

Even though sometimes we all make war with each other on the forum, we do have 1 common goal, to keep our beloved (and hated) universe.
And then some noob comes, trying to disrupt it by dropping some smart ass remarks about the financial statement.
Which every long time player should have already been aware of.

I'm very surprised to see all these "surprised" reactions about what he stated.
It's all old news.

Why emphasizing this old news?
Whats the motive I then ask.

Click to expand...

Whats the motive of a player starting and putting in 100k in a month the first or second month he plays?
Obviously that 100k reflects an ammount of time spend doing something else to be able to do that, besides have dead rich relatives
Probably more time invested then writing this post.

Wether its genuine interest, or facts with a purpose who cares, its a good read and since the assumption is everyone would informed already by their own accord it should not make a difference what the summary made by the OP is or that his ability to educate would carry any weight.



Heck, i read a few posts and i now am reading a thesis on freedom of contract that i stumbled upon, and just read a paper on swedish social security.

Ill include the links, its quite intresting. But why would i do that? Invest so much time in something that does not concern me 1 bit.


I enjoy it, learning, beeing a smartass every now and then, i wont write about it cuz i dont enjoy that, but i can definately relate to people that do and i am thankfull to everyone that does providing me with a source which i can take anyway i please to do.


https://www.business-sweden.se/globalassets/invest-new/reports-and-documents/the-swedish-social-security-system.pdf

http://www.etd.ceu.hu/2014/szwed_marcin.pdf

boring_player said:

To click or not to click?

Should I buy the product? Should I click “Proceed the payment” or not? Well, it looks like many of you during previous year answered: No.

Why “No”? Last financial year was a huge disappointment for MA revenues.

Click to expand...

This is an utter BS conclusion.

I mean, fuck that, why "NO"?

What on earth have I been playing the last 14 years??
14 years!!!!

Sky has been falling every year for the past 14 years.
I've been wanting to cash out every year.
And still here.
And I['m far from alone here.
But where do I see this in the financial statements?

His post has absolutely no meaning to me. Zero!

Sure, MA can go bankrupt. We had banks that went bankrupt.
So what?
That a reason not to try?
Well, if you're a chicken shit safe player, well, just go play tetris and be a save as you can get.
Otherwise, just do it, take the gamble and see where it all ends.
Just dont use your life savings for it. Thats all.

Entropia is a world for entrepreneurs, explorers and adventurers.
Not for chicken shit accountants who just want to read financial statements.

wizz said:

This is an utter BS conclusion.

I mean, fuck that, why "NO"?

What on earth have I been playing the last 14 years??
14 years!!!!

Sky has been falling every year for the past 14 years.
I've been wanting to cash out every year.
And still here.
And I['m far from alone here.
But where do I see this in the financial statements?

His post has absolutely no meaning to me. Zero!

Sure, MA can go bankrupt. We had banks that went bankrupt.
So what?
That a reason not to try?
Well, if you're a chicken shit safe player, well, just go play tetris and be a save as you can get.
Otherwise, just do it, take the gamble and see where it all ends.
Just dont use your life savings for it. Thats all.

Entropia is a world for entrepreneurs, explorers and adventurers.
Not for chicken shit accountants who just want to read financial statements.

Click to expand...

From the fact that there is still revenue, stop applying it to a single usecase, u. If u want ur personal financial rapport u can write MA a support case and they will give u a nice overview.

Lets open our minds to what can be achieved togather over sliding into singlular defense.

wizz said:

This is an utter BS conclusion.

I mean, fuck that, why "NO"?

What on earth have I been playing the last 14 years??
14 years!!!!

Sky has been falling every year for the past 14 years.
I've been wanting to cash out every year.
And still here.
And I['m far from alone here.
But where do I see this in the financial statements?

His post has absolutely no meaning to me. Zero!

Sure, MA can go bankrupt. We had banks that went bankrupt.
So what?
That a reason not to try?
Well, if you're a chicken shit safe player, well, just go play tetris and be a save as you can get.
Otherwise, just do it, take the gamble and see where it all ends.
Just dont use your life savings for it. Thats all.

Entropia is a world for entrepreneurs, explorers and adventurers.
Not for chicken shit accountants who just want to read financial statements.

Click to expand...

You look a bit worried/aggressive for someone who already know all the facts and/or is not playing with life savings.. Relax mate. I also knew about what the OP said and i also have a lot to loose in this game. I don't care about his intentions, in fact I'm glade that those who didn't know/didn't care look more interested in financial situation of the game company.

Why don't we spend our energies discuss the facts instead of OP intentions?

BuStLe said:

Why don't we spend our energies discuss the facts instead of OP intentions?

Click to expand...

This should have been the focus all along

BuStLe said:

You look a bit worried/aggressive for someone who already know all the facts and/or is not playing with life savings.. Relax mate. I also knew about what the OP said and i also have a lot to loose in this game. I don't care about his intentions, in fact I'm glade that those who didn't know/didn't care look more interested in financial situation of the game company.

Why don't we spend our energies discuss the facts instead of OP intentions?

Click to expand...

yeah sorry, just a hot tampered character.

Well as I mentioned, sky has been falling for 14 years.
And then some noob comes telling everybody you should NOT put any money in because of a financial statement (that every veteran should already have been aware of).

Funny, that if a regular player gives an opinion, first reactions are references to his/her entropia life page.
If this isnt 100k+ in globals then you should just stfu because you dont turn over enough to have an opinion.
Now, this guy comes telling us all we should not put a penny in, and we all act surprised and take him so serious.
That just baffles me.

And yes, I stand to my point that I want to know the motive of this character.
It just smells to fishy for my likings.

mg Joda VVV said:

From the fact that there is still revenue, stop applying it to a single usecase, u. If u want ur personal financial rapport u can write MA a support case and they will give u a nice overview.

Lets open our minds to what can be achieved togather over sliding into singlular defense.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what point you tried to make here.

wizz said:

yeah sorry, just a hot tampered character.

Well as I mentioned, sky has been falling for 14 years.
And then some noob comes telling everybody you should NOT put any money in because of a financial statement (that every veteran should already have been aware of).

Funny, that if a regular player gives an opinion, first reactions are references to his/her entropia life page.
If this isnt 100k+ in globals then you should just stfu because you dont turn over enough to have an opinion.
Now, this guy comes telling us all we should not put a penny in, and we all act surprised and take him so serious.
That just baffles me.

And yes, I stand to my point that I want to know the motive of this character.
It just smells to fishy for my likings.




I have no idea what point you tried to make here.

Click to expand...

well its different if a noob comes and trys to tell you the secrets of the game as opposed to someone who may or may not come from a financial field talk about financials of the game. he wouldnt have to spend a minute in game to still be qualified to talk about it (if its true that hes doing these things professionally).
same thing as if y physicist comes into the game on day 1 and tells you that the vehicle physics arent correct. he doesnt have 200k peds on tracker to know that.

wizz said:

Funny, that if a regular player gives an opinion, first reactions are references to his/her entropia life page.
If this isnt 100k+ in globals then you should just stfu because you dont turn over enough to have an opinion.
Now, this guy comes telling us all we should not put a penny in, and we all act surprised and take him so serious.
That just baffles me.

And yes, I stand to my point that I want to know the motive of this character.
It just smells to fishy for my likings.

Click to expand...

This. I've been so baffled by this thread too. The forum inhabitants are strangely arbitrary in who they will pay attention to.


Of course, maybe this guy is some woke genius and has figured out the psychology of the PCF forum goer -- just refuse to give your identity and come up with a dubious background story and write a big ole wall of text filled with inane drivel sprinkled with the occasional mundane numbers and figures to make it seem legit and throw in a picture of Bismark and everybody will think you have something interesting to say?

Me Really Never said:

same thing as if y physicist comes into the game on day 1 and tells you that the vehicle physics arent correct. he doesnt have 200k peds on tracker to know that.

Click to expand...

lol! You mean IRL my 30 ton VTOL isn't supposed to bounce around like a beach ball?!

the only sad thing here is to know how mindark lost so much of both their cash and their trust, and i really hope they radically change their attitude in future...

they really shouldn't promise to deliver the blue sky, and leave everyone in a black hole for years, or in some cases even a decade. they really shouldn't let some marketing john doe idiot who never played EU himself publish press statements that don't even fit current reality. they shouldn't waste tons of money on stupid ideas and publicity stunts without their customers full backup, maybe ask us before next time? they also shouldn't sell any random ideas without the ability to fully deliver it too, and i'm afraid there's more examples than i wanna be able to remember...

i'm not mad about MA, i'm quite bitter, for several reasons, and none of them is anyhow related to their finances or ToU.

that said, the nearly non-existing communication, the broken promises, and some forever ignored bugs piss me off most. and still, all that doesn't keep me from depositing or playing - provided i want to.

so, thanks your your attention MA and sorry for your inconvenience

Some things that have been described are correct or true. But I do not think the person is a freshman in the game. Right?

i think there's alot more to add on topic, instead of attacking the people who still feel to state their opinions here, whoever they are. quite a ton on EU players don't even post here anymore, because of people alike those everyone can clearly notice here himself.

EU has a problem with player retention, yes?

i think mindark has close to zero clue why, and maybe some of you guys here too, when you rather add fuel to a very well written firestatement of an EU newbie, but maybe also MMO veteran, instead of stating why you instead love it or still didn't leave.

did anyone here directly asked him "why?"

does mindark do that, when players don't login anymore? nope, they send unpersonal automails. is there any official way to deposit your heartful player's opinions/complains to mindark? PCF post, yes? support case, yes? ha ha ... telling it a wall makes as much sense too, i guess

theProphet said:

i think there's alot more to add on topic, instead of attacking the people who still feel to state their opinions here, whoever they are. quite a ton on EU players don't even post here anymore, because of people alike those everyone can clearly notice here himself.

EU has a problem with player retention, yes?

Click to expand...

Which game hasnt?
Tell me a game where there are players sticking around for 15+ years?

theProphet said:

i think mindark has close to zero clue why, and maybe some of you guys here too, when you rather add fuel to a very well written firestatement of an EU newbie, but maybe also MMO veteran, instead of stating why you instead love it or still didn't leave.

did anyone here directly asked him "why?"

Click to expand...

Sure, he dissects the financial statement.
Great for those who couldn't do this themselves.
No problem with that.

My problem lies with his advice he glued to that post.
"NO", dont ped your money in.
That triggered my reaction.

Get some game experience first to make such advice.

theProphet said:

does mindark do that, when players don't login anymore? nope, they send unpersonal automails. is there any official way to deposit your heartful player's opinions/complains to mindark? PCF post, yes? support case, yes? ha ha ... telling it a wall makes as much sense too, i guess

Click to expand...

So why would his post change anything than?
MA has always been deaf and blind to us.
And still we play in their sandbox.
Better look in the mirror and ask yourself why to find the answer as to why you are here.

What should MA do when you don't log in anymore. Send you flowers?
Isnt the welcome back hof enough?

wizz said:

What should MA do when you don't log in anymore. Send you flowers?
Isnt the welcome back hof enough?

Click to expand...

to get back to the topics, WE should shape the future of EU, because WE FUCKIN PAY FOR IT. truth is we don't even get voting booths, and our presidential election was worse than any axis-of-evil-country you can imagine, and even on another external platform, namely facebook. i mean c'mon, even a PCF vote would have done better. i don't even wanna talk about recent item devaluation actions, too much of a hassle. i hope you get my idea... (lost/lack of trust)

i think they should try to listen to their customers, and also try to make them happy. they don't have to send flowers IRL, they should take care that their universe itself is flourishing, feels alive and growing, even the areas and parts someone else "owns". lol, just sayin. some parts here look like a mass garbage dump. lots of their systems feel broken, and the UI is like a clusterfart. we have no state of the universe, we don't know who they are, what they work on, or even if anyone is left there besides support and accounting departments.

Question: What should MA do when you don't log in anymore.
Answer: Say hello, what's wrong, are you unhappy? Could we do something better?
Truth: GTFO the way, i drive Lambo to my presidential CCVRC. (compet/crypto/VR/castle)

too FENny sorry pls ignore me. or attack me. i deserve it, don't i?

theProphet said:

...

Question: What should MA do when you don't log in anymore.
Answer: Say hello, what's wrong, are you unhappy? Could we do something better?

Click to expand...

Yes, very nice and emphatic.
And yes, probably you're right....in a perfect world.

But lets be real.
They simply can't do whatever everybody wants.
So, some leave and some stay.
They can't please everybody in the universe.

I usually never agree with Messi, but he also stated it many times, people fail and leave due to their expectations.

The ones that left mostly left because they didnt get what they expected to get.
The ones that stuck around learned to manage these expectations and accept the short commings of MA.
Project Bugtropia, right?
We expected bugs and we got bugs!
The ones that wanted an uber smooth super good looking game left.

We expect losses to our hunt and we get losses to our hunt.
The ones that expected the losses adapted and either minimized the losses due to smart playing or simply accepted the losses and depoed some more. They're still here.
The ones that expected to get rich just by being a dumbass didnt get what they expected and left.

For sure, MA could do a lot more, and this universe has so much more potential, but if you expect that potential to be fully used, you will eventually leave disillusioned. Since we all know what a bunch of f#ck ups MA crew are.
So they will probably never see or use the full potential.

And yes, the financial situation of MA also worries me a bit since I would hate losing my ped as well.
But if I do, I can look back at a fantastic period I had here and would mourn more over the loss of the universe than the loss of my PED.

And that's exactly what the OP doesnt understand, or at least does not express. He doesnt udnerstand the essence of this universe. He just looks it at from a bystander point of view.
Maybe indeed, he's a noob, just trying to be a smartass, since if he was really an oldtimer, he would have factored this in in his elaborate post.
Or otherwise he's just a grumpy old fart wanting the universe to collapse.

I stick to my point, that if I want to take the OP serious, I want to know who he is and what his motives are for posting this.

wizz said:

But lets be real.
They simply can't do whatever everybody wants.
So, some leave and some stay.
They can't please everybody in the universe.

Click to expand...

sorry i disagree, as i know for fact that they piss off stakeholders repeatedly over the years. who cares about "everybody" huh? right, noone. new player experience lol, let's revamp it a 6th time, that will work...

don't get me wrong, i'm just a player, i wouldn't even consider myself a stakeholder or investor, even tho my gun costs more than my car...

theProphet said:

sorry i disagree, as i know for fact that they piss off stakeholders repeatedly over the years. who cares about "everybody" huh? right, noone. new player experience lol, let's revamp it a 6th time, that will work...

don't get me wrong, i'm just a player, i wouldn't even consider myself a stakeholder or investor, even tho my gun costs more than my car...

Click to expand...

Yes, MA has the reputation to do that.
Many times.
And many times the sky fell.
Many times everybody rage quited because of this.

And still, we here.
And still you have a gun that costs more than your car.

That makes me wonder.
Somewhere, somehow, they must be doing something right. Right?

Or either, we're all just so incredibly stupid to hang around.

Or a combination of both?

wizz said:

Somewhere, somehow, they must be doing something right. Right?

Click to expand...

in our dreams, yes of course, imagination has no limits. in reality, very very seldom, only on rare occassions over the years. but sure, if it comes to survival... what is right or wrong?

If you agree with everything the rookie says, who seems specialized in the games owned by the MA competitors, why do you torture yourself staying here? You should take your money and leave the game. It is the most logical, is not it? Why do you spend your time trying to convince others? what is your interest or motivation? (4 me, sky is NOT falling)

wizz said:

The thread remain interesting.

It has nothing to do with forum trolls ruining anything.

...........
why wanting to be such a smart ass on the first post you make on a forum, pretending you fully understand the game and concept.

Even though sometimes we all make war with each other on the forum, we do have 1 common goal, to keep our beloved (and hated) universe.
And then some noob comes, trying to disrupt it by dropping some smart ass remarks about the financial statement.
Which every long time player should have already been aware of.

..........

Click to expand...

agree

bla bla bla i overtalked, not worth it

there is no lack of trust regarding financial situation towards mindark.

mindark almost failed every investment outside from EU in the past and often did financial stunts in a Colt Sievers type of way to get back on track but yet people keept investing in it.

its simply alot people left because they thought that the product is not worth their time anymore cause nothing moves forward with what the software product has to offer. if you read the youngest „i quit“ or „i sell out“ threads you see people commenting that „they want to spend their time different“. thats the real desaster for any company.

thats a result of the ongoing lifecycle of the product with no significant developing regarding customer needs (in our case as players its ingame functions and content developement).

in alot cases people keept depositing cause they thought that mindark will use that money to push the product further but they simply dont.

while time passes without no further movement people change their minds and believe that their deposits dont bring the product further but only feed mindark in their comfort zone of milking the customer base by ignoring the call for demands and the playerbase demanded alot of systems and content in the past.

the product got more technically stable in the latest updates yeah but look at when cryengine was brought into the game and when they got the product stable now. it took to long to justify that towards your paying customers.

mindark is currently like a restaurant offering bad food for overprice and taking over an hour to get that on the table.

thats where the bad reputation comes from. that is the root problem yet they want to denial and alot players which dont care about money but simply want to gamble shoot around also denial for too long now.

Solo4711 said:

~Snip~

mindark is currently like a restaurant offering bad food for overprice and taking over an hour to get that on the table.

thats where the bad reputation comes from. that is the root problem yet they want to denial and alot players which dont care about money but simply want to gamble shoot around also denial for too long now.

Click to expand...

I think that sums up everything perfectly.

I often wonder if they read things said or as posted above and ask themselves, "What can we do or change/add?" ( I wish they would ask )

Sometimes, I think they are just at a creative loss or have seen something cool on a different game and think it works in EU and they try it. ( You already have the recipe )

It does remind me of your favorite restaurant which makes a unique dish, then sells the restaurant with the 'unique' recipe, but then they buy cheap ingredients to make it or get greedy and the restaurant closes after awhile.

I still hold out with great hope, though.

Haha. Again and again. Every rookie will say one and another time

The only thing that comes to my mind when I read the OP,
is that I will have to be fast if I want some CP shares.

Cause it seems that someone wants them all..

mg Joda VVV said:

Small business audits by small time accountant agency's are written mostly written by people who wanna continue working for their client creating a situation where bias is inevitable.


Government auditors are a bitch.

Click to expand...

MindArk was audited by PWC Auditors.

jetsina said:

(edit: ...I agree with Joda's comment...)

Click to expand...

Sigh.....

I am not going to agree and disagree here
Hope u read the everything in this thread and get the feel of it.