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Money is power – MindArk business model based on (lack of) trust.

Alukat123 said:
ofc someone who can depo $20000 will have it way easier than someone who can depo only $200, no arguing there.
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or someone can reserve a little of theyre montly avaiability for investments, put it apart and when capital is grown buy a good deed, takes time and dedication, but its possible.

i dont see anything wrong to reserve a small part of ur montly budjet for entropia, as well as to reserve part of it for investing in the virtual economy. Yea its high risk, but u can still reserve another part of ur budjet for ur retirement then u safe? At the end when u saved enought money to end ur life without worryes, thats when the heart attack will strike, its always like that.
 
Corwin said:
or someone can reserve a little of theyre montly avaiability for investments
Click to expand...

that only works if you have some money to spare. But for those who have to choose between food and money for EU, it's not an option...
 
Alukat123 said:
that only works if you have some money to spare. But for those who have to choose between food and money for EU, it's not an option...
Click to expand...

If you have to make that choice, then don't play at all.
 
To be fair, I am a very long term veteran of this game and believe yes indeed they are worthy of our trust.

There have been a ton of changes that have occurred including structural changes to the core of the game that have made this a much better place to be in the past few years, though admittedly not so for the high rollers.

For the average player and middle of the road persons who don't whine about their TT return on immense amount of PED ground, things are actually doing pretty well.

I think that while yes in the past they have let us down? They additionally have earned our chance to see what they do in 2019 because they are making big changes such as cutting projects that are sucking the resources of their company and working on changing more things aggressively in the game that are looking to turn things around in the economy.

The most important things will be to see how they change the economic situation in the game in response to strongbox keys. These are things that we should be crafting and should help ped flow through the economy not just make it easy to deposit.
We also need to see how in 2019 they improve the experience of existing features, they are certainly paving the way for important changes and I think it's at least worthwhile that we see them through.
 
Alukat123 said:
that only works if you have some money to spare. But for those who have to choose between food and money for EU, it's not an option...
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Correct, and I agree that you shouldn't be playing this game.
 
lol yeah. life necessities first.
 
Alukat123 said:
how's that not a joke? How did i deserve a 4.6k mining tower after 6 month mostly EP I crafting over someone who was mining for 4+ years and never seen a tower? please explain.



if the game doesn't give the necessary multipliers (you are unlucky), you can change your play style as much as you want, it doesn't help at all...
Click to expand...

No. You actually don't need high levels of multipliers necessarily, you can also adjust your play style in order to compensate for this instead of mindlessly grinding like some well known 'ubers' do that lose.
You can ride out times that are offering bad return and bad/few multipliers by instead during that time changing what you are doing.

If you scale back your hunting, instead focus on missions and small things in order to ride out the bad times, relocate planets and switch to things that have a different pattern to their payout, you can properly mitigate the times that are harsh.

Otherwise, you will get fleeced.

Some mobs pay out in ways that require lots of larger multipliers to get their markup, others require small multipliers.
Some mobs don't even need a multiplier to drop certain things that are worthwhile.
Sometimes the system will take from you, and no you shouldn't just assume it's going to pay you back suddenly.

Switch what you are doing if it isn't working for you.
 
Alukat123 said:
that only works if you have some money to spare. But for those who have to choose between food and money for EU, it's not an option...
Click to expand...


:laugh: bro, I can see you trying very hard to counter off all the replies.

Technically, you know... don't have to feel sad, they all need you very much (your play & your $).
 
Psynergy said:
No. You actually don't need high levels of multipliers necessarily, you can also adjust your play style in order to compensate for this instead of mindlessly grinding like some well known 'ubers' do that lose.
You can ride out times that are offering bad return and bad/few multipliers by instead during that time changing what you are doing.

If you scale back your hunting, instead focus on missions and small things in order to ride out the bad times, relocate planets and switch to things that have a different pattern to their payout, you can properly mitigate the times that are harsh.

Otherwise, you will get fleeced.

Some mobs pay out in ways that require lots of larger multipliers to get their markup, others require small multipliers.
Some mobs don't even need a multiplier to drop certain things that are worthwhile.
Sometimes the system will take from you, and no you shouldn't just assume it's going to pay you back suddenly.

Switch what you are doing if it isn't working for you.
Click to expand...

This is 100%. You have to ride the loot pool waves, try different things, explore new areas, find good average returns and follow certain skill gains or get lucky.

Don't do the same thing over and over again expecting different results.. there is a word for this.
 
Psynergy said:
No. You actually don't need high levels of multipliers necessarily, you can also adjust your play style in order to compensate for this instead of mindlessly grinding like some well known 'ubers' do that lose.
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well, if being 1800 PED behind 95% return on a 1.8 PED per click craft on quantity, then a high level multiplier is necessary to make the jump to 95% return, a times 10 or 50 simply wouldn't do it.

Psynergy said:
You can ride out times that are offering bad return and bad/few multipliers by instead during that time changing what you are doing.
Click to expand...

i've tried changing crafts, to mining, to hunt, different locations, different mobs so often , it never worked. When it's bad, then it's bad everywhere.
The only thing that worked for me is to play significantly less, no more crafting all day long but instead only craft for maybe an hour per day and condition crafting instead of quantity. For some very odd reason that works out better than playing all day and crafting quantity...

Psynergy said:
Correct, and I agree that you shouldn't be playing this game.
Click to expand...

Why should i not? I'm quite good at it, even though i may not like some things....
I can understand new players leaving very quickly, if they run into the same issues, they arrive, see MA taking a cut of 20-25% (bad return run) and then may just leave the game right away...
For me it it's not fun either to have the ped card refilled, long list of stuff to do and then not being able to even do half of it, because the game has it's week where everything's bad...
 
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Alukat123 said:
well, if being 1800 PED behind 95% return on a 1.8 PED per click craft on quantity, then a high level multiplier is necessary to make the jump to 95% return, a times 10 or 50 simply wouldn't do it.



i've tried changing crafts, to mining, to hunt, different locations, different mobs so often , it never worked. When it's bad, then it's bad everywhere.
The only thing that worked for me is to play significantly less, no more crafting all day long but instead only craft for maybe an hour per day and condition crafting instead of quantity. For some very odd reason that works out better than playing all day and crafting quantity...



Why should i not? I'm quite good at it, even though i may not like some things....
I can understand new players leaving very quickly, if they run into the same issues, they arrive, see MA taking a cut of 20-25% (bad return run) and then may just leave the game right away...
For me it it's not fun either to have the ped card refilled, long list of stuff to do and then not being able to even do half of it, because the game has it's week where everything's bad...
Click to expand...

As far i understand you from previous posts .. you dont depo much , you dont loose much , you dont spend any time research or doing something just sitting and clicking but yet you cry over bad returns . What world we live on and why you think anyone from Mindark own you something ?
 
Mac Farmer said:
As far i understand you from previous posts .. you dont depo much , you dont loose much , you dont spend any time research or doing something just sitting and clicking but yet you cry over bad returns .
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You're wrong as to not doing research and just sitting there and clicking...
As it goes for bad return, 4k clicks 79% return, maxed out BP, quantity crafting.
For condition crafting such return is okay in my opinion, that's the gambling mode?
For quantity not so much, because quantity is supposed to be the non-gambling mode?

Can't be too much to ask, to change the game back to:
1+k clicks - 90+% return when crafting quantity
 
Alukat123 said:
You're wrong as to not doing research and just sitting there and clicking...
As it goes for bad return, 4k clicks 79% return, maxed out BP, quantity crafting.
For condition crafting such return is okay in my opinion, that's the gambling mode?
For quantity not so much, because quantity is supposed to be the non-gambling mode?

Can't be too much to ask, to change the game back to:
1+k clicks - 90+% return when crafting quantity
Click to expand...

So you not making any mu in hoping of loot expensive bp ? Isnt that nut to expect profits in long term ?
 
Good to see that thread has developed but...
You started discussing so called "bad returns". You treat the mechanics of Entropia in a way that is a little mysterious to me. From my perspective, thing as good or bad returns do not exist. Why?

Example:

I deposited 2000 USD in 2018. I did some hunts/craft/mining and here I am in 2019 with only 900 USD of my money. MindArk took 1100 USD in 2018 from me! Because of bad returns, because of bad mechanics, because of bad everything.

Wrong - MindArk did not take 1100 USD from you. You deposited 2000 USD and this money is entirely MindArk's money. Not yours. Not anymore. It was your choice to pay them 2000 USD. If it harms you then remember - volenti fit non iniuria. MindArk guarantees to withdraw you only the value of your deposits from the past 6 months. Only deposits - not winnings. This is not Real Cash Economy - this is Real Cash Economy Experience.

MindArk payment model they developed assumes that you pay for the product in the moment of performing in-game activities - that means, in the long run, player community will always loose.

You pay when you play - no monthly subscription fee, no buy to play, no free to play (it's more like free to log-in). Remember, you can always enter restaurant and watch other people eat. But when you want to join them, nobody will serve you food for free.

The source of your problem is lack of comprehension for some obvious facts. MindArk's a company, not a small one. They hire 44 (Linked-in says now 50) employees. They must pay salaries, bonuses, office rent, external services, bills, their assets depreciate. They must pay taxes, government liabilities. The way you pay for the game is simple - the gameplay itself is a method of payment. That is why most of you mostly loose, and will loose because nobody will work at MindArk for free, and nobody will provide any free services to MindArk too.

Do not consider your "return" bad or good. Consider all deposited money your payment for MA. Good thing here is that it depends entirely on you how much you wanna pay. The object of discussion could be more how much must you pay for a one hour of entertainment on level 1, 10, 20, 50 or 100. We should discuss for how long our 100USD will allow us to play on a certain level.

The 'game' is of course determined by chance, means some of you will have better returns, most of you probably very bad. But all of you must pay. Let's stick to the topic please. Don't try to prove me wrong by saying that a colleague of a colleague started 8 years ago and did not deposit at all.

Most of you pay. You pay for using of the product - some of you enter the restaurant and order water and bread, some of you pay straight for a Cristal and truffles. As I said, you can always enter the restaurant and watch other people eat. You can also decide not to eat at that restaurant, because the bill is too high and there is no value for money. But comprehend one simple fact - you will always loose. The Entropia core gameplay (hunting/mining/crafting etc) is the method of payment. If you want guaranteed profits go find a job.

Regards,

boring_player
 
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boring_player said:
Good to see that thread has developed but...
You started discussing so called "bad returns". You treat the mechanics of Entropia in a way that is a little mysterious to me. From my perspective, thing as good or bad returns do not exist. Why?

Example:

I deposited 2000 USD in 2018. I did some hunts/craft/mining and here I am in 2019 with only 900 USD of my money. MindArk took 1100 USD in 2018 from me! Because of bad returns, because of bad mechanics, because of bad everything.

Wrong - MindArk did not take 1100 USD from you. You deposited 2000 USD and this money is entirely MindArk's money. Not yours. Not anymore. It was your choice to pay them 2000 USD. If it harms you then remember - volenti fit non iniuria. MindArk guarantees to withdraw you only the value of your deposits from the past 6 months. Only deposits - not winnings. This is not Real Cash Economy - this is Real Cash Economy Experience.

MindArk payment model they developed assumes that you pay for the product in the moment of performing in-game activities - that means, in the long run, player community will always loose.

You pay when you play - no monthly subscription fee, no buy to play, no free to play (it's more like free to log-in). Remember, you can always enter restaurant and watch other people eat. But when you want to join them, nobody will serve you food for free.

The source of your problem is lack of comprehension for some obvious facts. MindArk's a company, not a small one. They hire 44 (Linked-in says now 50) employees. They must pay salaries, bonuses, office rent, external services, bills, their assets depreciate. They must pay taxes, government liabilities. The way you pay for the game is simple - the gameplay itself is a method of payment. That is why most of you mostly loose, and will loose because nobody will work at MindArk for free, and nobody will provide any free services to MindArk too.

Do not consider your "return" bad or good. Consider all deposited money your payment for MA. Good thing here is that it depends entirely on you how much you wanna play. The object of discussion could be more how much must you pay for a one hour of entertainment on level 1, 10, 20, 50 or 100. We should discuss for how long our 100USD will allow us to play on a certain level.

The 'game' is of course determined by chance, means some of you will have better returns, most of you probably very bad. But all of you must pay. Let's stick to the topic please. Don't try to prove me wrong by saying that a colleague of a colleague started 8 years ago and did not deposit at all.

Most of you pay. You pay for using of the product - some of you enter the restaurant and order water and bread, some of you pay straight for a Cristal and truffles. As I said, you can always enter the restaurant and watch other people eat. You can also decide not to eat at that restaurant, because the bill is too high and there is no value for money. But comprehend one simple fact - you will always loose. Core Entropia gameplay is the method of payment.

Regards,

boring_player
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you're not totally wrong about this, but you're missing a very large part of the game.
Most people that complain that they "lost" to much are just mindless clicking zombies, excpecting that by clicking they get rich. The more clicks the more money. (it did work this way with some setups in loot 1.0 but wont work anymore in loot 2.0)
But we all know from experience that it works the otherway around. The more you click, the more you pay.
UNLESS
Unless you know WHAT to click.
You need to know which "slot machine" you should spin. Because some slot machines give tokens that are more worth then their own value.
You need to go after those MU tokens.

Thats one thing.

Fuirthermore, a part that you totally overlook is the economy part.
You can make money without killing a single mob, without touching the crafting machine and without ever dropping a bomb.
And there are many ways.
An economy is based on trade. And trading is an essential part of the game of you dont want to pay to play.
Also, there are many other ways of generating revenue that would prevent you from the need to depo to play.

And it's these things that make enteropia unique.

But sadly most people just don't look further than the autoclick option. And so are forced to pay to play forever.
 
Anyone can answer these question officially ?


Here comes the real question on MA/EU - Real Cash Economy,


Assuming everything is legal and did not breach any critical terms and conditions.


1. If I deposit $100 within 6 months, and I hit an ATH of $10,000. How much can I withdraw in cash ?


2. If I don't deposit within 6 months, and I sweat a lots, trade a lots and hit an ATH of $10,000. How much can I withdraw in cash ?
 
wizz said:
Fuirthermore, a part that you totally overlook is the economy part.
You can make money without killing a single mob, without touching the crafting machine and without ever dropping a bomb.
Click to expand...

I did it intentionally - I said that:
The Entropia core gameplay (hunting/mining/crafting etc) is the method of payment.
Click to expand...


In other MMO you can also trade to make some virtual money and pay a subscription fee with it.

You can also search for fruits for the next 10 years, gather 2000 ped, withdraw 200USD and brag that you make money playing online MMO. Core gameplay is and will be Entropia's method of payment. If you do those activities you must expect that MindArk will charge you for their services. Basta.
 
yeeck said:
Anyone can answer these question officially ?


Here comes the real question on MA/EU - Real Cash Economy,


Assuming everything is legal and did not breach any critical terms and conditions.


1. If I deposit $100 within 6 months, and I hit an ATH of $10,000. How much can I withdraw in cash ?


2. If I don't deposit within 6 months, and I sweat a lots, trade a lots and hit an ATH of $10,000. How much can I withdraw in cash ?
Click to expand...

What shady you see about MA paying withdraws on ? Yes sometime they do checks were is need but thats normal - its real cash economy whit real money beign deposit/withdraw .

I personal have withdraw near 20x times more than i have deposit from the time i play :)
 
Mac Farmer said:
What shady you see about MA paying withdraws on ? Yes sometime they do checks were is need but thats normal - its real cash economy whit real money beign deposit/withdraw .

I personal have withdraw near 20x times more than i have deposit from the time i play :)
Click to expand...



Thanks bro for replying.
Because I never withdraw before. Thus, I don't know and I ask.

OP is talking about 6 months period of time applied and amounts of withdrawal is restricted to the amounts you deposited. Should not be anyone here concern about it?
 
yeeck said:
Thanks bro for replying.
Because I never withdraw before. Thus, I don't know and I ask.

OP is talking about 6 months period of time applied and amounts of withdrawal is restricted to the amounts you deposited. Should not be anyone here concern about it?
Click to expand...

This is only for pay pal or whatever . Its not for bank transer and credit/debit cards

Ps there is plenty of people did withdraws in 2018 i really dont see were this panic came from

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?275754-Current-Withdrawal-time
 
yeeck said:
Thanks bro for replying.
Because I never withdraw before. Thus, I don't know and I ask.

OP is talking about 6 months period of time applied and amounts of withdrawal is restricted to the amounts you deposited. Should not be anyone here concern about it?
Click to expand...

It was not me who came up with this. In the moment of writing my articles I did not know about the 6-month rule. I understand that deposits made in the last 6 months are guaranteed minimum. As long as they have money and good will, they will pay you if you request the withdrawal. But if their financial condition will be worse than now (and now it is not too good) they probably can legally reject your withdrawal request.

They have put this 6 month rule in their Terms of Use & EULA to protect themselves from lawsuits form players if they ever went bankrupt.
As long as they can afford withdrawals they will do it to stay credible. (as they have about 1 million USD only on their account they probably cover the withdrawals with current inflow of money like strongboxes etc).

Simply, this 6 month rule fully cover their ass from legal perspective in case of a bankruptcy.


This is only for pay pal or whatever .
Click to expand...

Can you quote MindArks EULA and Terms of Use to prove it? From what I read, it applies to all payment methods.
 
Mac Farmer said:
This is only for pay pal or whatever . Its not for bank transer and credit/debit cards

Ps there is plenty of people did withdraws in 2018 i really dont see were this panic came from

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?275754-Current-Withdrawal-time
Click to expand...



Thanks again for the clarification.
For your info, I understood and experienced before.


OP please withdraw you confusing discussion on TOC relating to restriction on withdrawal within 6 months and amounts of deposits. Unless you are SUPER confident about it.
 
yeeck said:
Thanks again for the clarification.
For your info, I understood and experienced before.


OP please withdraw you confusing discussion on TOC relating to restriction on withdrawal within 6 months and amounts of deposits. Unless you are SUPER confident about it.
Click to expand...

Please, read the first 10 pages of this thread, it was not me. I did not know about this rule, someone else quoted EULA/ToU. Some other people confirmed that the way this 6 month rule is a fact.

Please refer to previous posts to find it.


This is why I find confusing that you complain about returns. You consider all the PEDs you have your money while in fact, legally, it can be MindArks at any time.
 
boring_player said:
It was not me who came up with this. In the moment of writing my articles I did not know about the 6-month rule. I understand that deposits made in the last 6 months are guaranteed minimum. As long as they have money and good will, they will pay you if you request the withdrawal. But if their financial condition will be worse than now (and now it is not too good) they probably can legally reject your withdrawal request.

They have put this 6 month rule in their Terms of Use & EULA to protect themselves from lawsuits form players if they ever went bankrupt.
As long as they can afford withdrawals they will do it to stay credible. (as they have about 1 million USD only on their account they probably cover the withdrawals with current inflow of money like strongboxes etc).

Simply, this 6 month rule fully cover their ass from legal perspective in case of a bankruptcy.




Can you quote MindArks EULA and Terms of Use to prove it? From what I read, it applies to all payment methods.
Click to expand...

Your all talk here is maybe , probably , but , ... the fook is wrong whit you



You acknowledge that MindArk may refuse, halt or reverse a withdrawal, and/or ask You to verify Your identity as condition to withdrawal if:

MindArk is unable to verify or authenticate any or some of the Self-Registered Information You provide; or

You did not provide MindArk with the full and comprehensive information needed to complete a withdrawal; or

MindArk is obliged by law or regulations to do so; or

it is suspected that the withdrawal may involve fraudulent and/or other unlawful activity; or

the PED balance on Your PED Card is less than 1 000 PED, the minimum amount for a withdrawal.

MindArk acknowledges the responsibility to maintain records of finance for all funds transactions in connection with Your use of the Entropia Universe. You agree that MindArk's transaction records shall be conclusive proof of the transaction carried out to or from Your PED Card.


Do you see somewere 6 month or 12 years or 1 week ? I can proove you more whit my transaction data if you pay me to do
 
boring_player said:
It was not me who came up with this. In the moment of writing my articles I did not know about the 6-month rule. I understand that deposits made in the last 6 months are guaranteed minimum. As long as they have money and good will, they will pay you if you request the withdrawal. But if their financial condition will be worse than now (and now it is not too good) they probably can legally reject your withdrawal request.

They have put this 6 month rule in their Terms of Use & EULA to protect themselves from lawsuits form players if they ever went bankrupt.
As long as they can afford withdrawals they will do it to stay credible. (as they have about 1 million USD only on their account they probably cover the withdrawals with current inflow of money like strongboxes etc).

Simply, this 6 month rule fully cover their ass from legal perspective in case of a bankruptcy.




Can you quote MindArks EULA and Terms of Use to prove it? From what I read, it applies to all payment methods.
Click to expand...



The moment you posted this topic, I have great feeling / respect for you.
It's because you are trying to do something here to improve RCE and build up the trust towards EU/MA. These effect will only come when everyone begin to seriously discuss and share without thinking who is this guys, what's their back ground or can they be trusted ?

BUT I did advice you , not to put too much story-link / assumptions, unless you are SUPER confident and expert/experienced in telling so.

Imagining you are trying to scold someone, end up, you apologised for some mistake / error. So easy right?
 
boring_player said:
I did it intentionally - I said that:



In other MMO you can also trade to make some virtual money and pay a subscription fee with it.

You can also search for fruits for the next 10 years, gather 2000 ped, withdraw 200USD and brag that you make money playing online MMO. Core gameplay is and will be Entropia's method of payment. If you do those activities you must expect that MindArk will charge you for their services. Basta.
Click to expand...

you have really no clue, have you?

Yes, you understood the financial statement.
Thats clear.

But you dont understand the mechanics of the game. Thats apparent.

boring_player said:
In other MMO you can also trade to make some virtual money and pay a subscription fee with it.
Click to expand...

And this is not possible in EU??
 
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