High HR = key to succes !!!

Liu said:

Hey there, made another run of normal length :

O+E 99peds Terra5T3 - 92,91peds back. 93,85% (still eudoria)

HR was 28.36% overall, with a much better one for ores. Big diversity of claims, almost no tiny. 1000m avg depth, no special finds.

So you all here only mine to make better HR runs ?

Click to expand...

For me high-low HR tells me a lot to keep mining there or not but I rarely drop for enm and ore the same time.

Also using depth enh for enm is a waste of peds (imo), that's also 1 reason why I do not drop enm/ore the same time.

Depth enh for ores I use in area's where there are rare ores only, so I safe more peds.

There is no need to go that deep all the time cause you can find most at any depth (except the rare ores cause they need 800 depth at least), the only advantage you have here is less chance that another miner was here mining at the same depth.

Try to focus more of enm/ores that have a nice average mu of 110/115%, less miners in those zones and still nice profits. Zones with high end ores are mostly overmined, so more chance of loosing

I am getting your point.

Enmatter for me is deeply sentimental as I started being a surveyor 15 years ago when you rather chose one way or the other.

For me so far it is very difficult to chose proper zones as I have not mined seriously for years and remap myself a properly the planets.

At least Calypso and Arkadia, although I also enjoyed quite much NI and treasure Island as well as Cyrene.

A lot of work to do ! But I do enjoy the melting pot of this thread !

Liu said:

For me so far it is very difficult to chose proper zones as I have not mined seriously for years and remap myself a properly the planets.

Click to expand...

Oh yes, this takes time... a lot of time.

Mapping to find all and then the zones ... even in a big zone there are better and very bad spots. That's why my runs are mostly small

LeelooM said:

For me high-low HR tells me a lot to keep mining there or not but I rarely drop for enm and ore the same time.

Also using depth enh for enm is a waste of peds (imo), that's also 1 reason why I do not drop enm/ore the same time.

Depth enh for ores I use in area's where there are rare ores only, so I safe more peds.

There is no need to go that deep all the time cause you can find most at any depth (except the rare ores cause they need 800 depth at least), the only advantage you have here is less chance that another miner was here mining at the same depth.

Try to focus more of enm/ores that have a nice average mu of 110/115%, less miners in those zones and still nice profits. Zones with high end ores are mostly overmined, so more chance of loosing

Click to expand...

I miss the time as we had one finder for ores and one for enm. It made it more easy to use ores or enm in different ways. This don't means also to have some finder, doing both. I also would like, if the finder would remember the setup u did. Lets say for 106 finder you have ores setup, and on 105 you could setup for enm. So you just can take one of both, without the pain that you as first need to do a setup for ores or enm, and or need to remove enhancer and put in.

To be honest, I've really only ever had one area that I would mine both ore and enmatter, but its resources were changed a few years ago, and some target ores have poor MU now. There's basically no area excluding maybe one or two that has high average markup for both types. Most of the time, it's going to be < 110% for one or the other.

Here is a little tip to help combat those nasty little NRFs... I am currently doing this when double probing, if I miss when carpet bombing, just increase the distance between drops by your probes radius. When you hit, keep the distance the same until you miss, then start again

For Example

1st probe misses, move 55m, drop
2nd probe misses, move 110m, drop
3rd probe hits, move 110m, drop
4th probe hits, move 110m, drop
5th probe misses, move 55m, drop

etc

I am suspecting that the reason that this seems to work is that it takes more time to travel the increased distance, enabling the avatar to find the correct timing for their drops.

Any comments ?

R4tt3xx said:

Here is a little tip to help combat those nasty little NRFs... I am currently doing this when double probing, if I miss when carpet bombing, just increase the distance between drops by your probes radius. When you hit, keep the distance the same until you miss, then start again

For Example

1st probe misses, move 55m, drop
2nd probe misses, move 110m, drop
3rd probe hits, move 110m, drop
4th probe hits, move 110m, drop
5th probe misses, move 55m, drop

etc

I am suspecting that the reason that this seems to work is that it takes more time to travel the increased distance, enabling the avatar to find the correct timing for their drops.

Any comments ?

Click to expand...

Why double dropping?
In the whole universe I would only do that in 1 or 2 places with a maximum of maybe 100 drops
Either the ores are good at a place or enmatters, but 99% never together

LeelooM said:

Why double dropping?
In the whole universe I would only do that in 1 or 2 places with a maximum of maybe 100 drops
Either the ores are good at a place or enmatters, but 99% never together

Click to expand...

Interesting..... You have given me a lot to think about.....

I will need to find an area to target that has good ores / enmatters in the default depth of a 105. I will open another thread regarding this...

Thanks LeelooM

Here is a summary (that I have experienced) about HR

As promised : My secret to mining and how to get the 40+% HR

HR can be affected by a few things, also your TT return so I named it WWW

What - Where - When

First you need to focus on WHAT you gonna mine, most likely something with a nice MU, with a nice MU I mean 110-120%

Second is WHERE you have mapped most of those and know the zone very well

Third is WHEN ... IMO this is the hardest 1 and its divided in 2 sections

1 - When was the last time somebody mined there ... if your HR is about 20% it was very short before you came ... 5 min? if your HR is about 25-30% ... 10 min? if your HR is over 30-35% ... 15 minutes ... and then there is the magical 40+%...

2 - Economical HR is when there are lots and lots to mine, lots of pages on auction and lower MU than normal makes this the absolute winner with over 40% HR when both sections are in optimal conditions and that's the only time I start using amps.



GL mining all, hope this helps a bit

LeelooM said:

Here is a summary (that I have experienced) about HR

As promised : My secret to mining and how to get the 40+% HR

HR can be affected by a few things, also your TT return so I named it WWW

What - Where - When

First you need to focus on WHAT you gonna mine, most likely something with a nice MU, with a nice MU I mean 110-120%

Second is WHERE you have mapped most of those and know the zone very well

Third is WHEN ... IMO this is the hardest 1 and its divided in 2 sections

1 - When was the last time somebody mined there ... if your HR is about 20% it was very short before you came ... 30 min? if your HR is about 25-30% 1 hour? if your HR is over 30-35% 2-3 hours ... and then there is the magical 40+%...

2 - Economical HR is when there are lots and lots to mine, lots of pages on auction and lower MU than normal makes this the absolute winner with over 40% HR when both sections are in optimal conditions and that's the only time I start using amps.



GL mining all, hope this helps a bit

Click to expand...

Question is, how is all this being implemented ?

Lets start with location black-listing... A typical server is a 8192km square, with an area of 67108864m. A drop from a typical 105 would effective black list 29855 of those 67108864 which in this example are 1m apart. I don't think that MA is implementing it this way, it's just too much work. Any Ideas ?

R4tt3xx said:

Question is, how is all this being implemented ?

Lets start with location black-listing... A typical server is a 8192km square, with an area of 67108864m. A drop from a typical 105 would effective black list 29855 of those 67108864 which in this example are 1m apart. I don't think that MA is implementing it this way, it's just too much work. Any Ideas ?

Click to expand...

I once did a test with unreal game engine, in a game where you can mine. Mining was near same as in EU there.
So, i coded it that way. if a player droped a probe, it spawn a invisible object to the landscape, like a trigger. If you try to mine into this trigger, it was impossible to get a claim more, after a random time, the trigger disappear, and you can drop again there.

That was the most simply method i tryed out on this, and it worked very well. Also the claims poped up randomly around a radius of the location i droped the probe. So the probe drop location, was the point to move away for next drop, and not the claim where it poped up randomly.

So, this was how it worked in my game, not sure how MA coded the mining, and it will ofc been a secret for ever!

Leeloo, I have paid attention to most of your tips in various threads and it has led to mining being consistently profitable for me... so for that I thank you for actually putting the knowledge out there, many people would keep it to themselves.

The only thing I have a really hard time believing is that other people mining an area has any impact - at least right now. Most of the data I've seen supporting this is from a long time ago, and I wonder if this still holds true. It doesn't seem to corroborate what I've observed under the current system. Maybe I missed it, but have any recent tests been done that demonstrate this empirically? I think there was a recent survey and a lot of people said yes but had nothing but anecdotal evidence.

trance said:

I once did a test with unreal game engine, in a game where you can mine. Mining was near same as in EU there.
So, i coded it that way. if a player droped a probe, it spawn a invisible object to the landscape, like a trigger. If you try to mine into this trigger, it was impossible to get a claim more, after a random time, the trigger disappear, and you can drop again there.

That was the most simply method i tryed out on this, and it worked very well. Also the claims poped up randomly around a radius of the location i droped the probe. So the probe drop location, was the point to move away for next drop, and not the claim where it poped up randomly.

So, this was how it worked in my game, not sure how MA coded the mining, and it will ofc been a secret for ever!

Click to expand...

Forgive my little rant above, tired due to over-mining .... Good idea though, find out how the engine would do it, not the app...

My search for the perfect 100% HR run is looking very grim, you cannot predict the actions of other players...

R4tt3xx said:

Forgive my little rant above, tired due to over-mining .... Good idea though, find out how the engine would do it, not the app...

My search for the perfect 100% HR run is looking very grim, you cannot predict the actions of other players...

Click to expand...

Forgot to say, if a player droped the claim, the trigger was set to dedect the same player, not the others, so other miners could mine in same spot too.

Detritus said:

Leeloo, I have paid attention to most of your tips in various threads and it has led to mining being consistently profitable for me... so for that I thank you for actually putting the knowledge out there, many people would keep it to themselves.

The only thing I have a really hard time believing is that other people mining an area has any impact - at least right now. Most of the data I've seen supporting this is from a long time ago, and I wonder if this still holds true. It doesn't seem to corroborate what I've observed under the current system. Maybe I missed it, but have any recent tests been done that demonstrate this empirically? I think there was a recent survey and a lot of people said yes but had nothing but anecdotal evidence.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the nice reply again and glad you are doing very good

If I see another green dot where I mine, I mostly send them a pm and ask mining? cause there are also fruitwalkers/hunters. If yes I ask them for ores/enm and I tell them my average depth and ask what depth they are mining. If there is a huge dif, it will not give that much impact but if it's almost the same your HR will be low. Ever tried it out with a soc mate or a mining friend?

Leeloo ans Detritus, I love your ideas about this same zone crowdy mining with same and different depths.
What about we try to set up a time to make this little experiment with a few dozen drops a time ? That's not a lot, but after a couple of sessions of let's say 50 drops, that would already be 100's of drops/Peds altogether. Not bad for a sample !

I'm ready to sacrifice a few Peds for the good of mankind !

R4tt3xx said:

Question is, how is all this being implemented ?

Lets start with location black-listing... A typical server is a 8192km square, with an area of 67108864m. A drop from a typical 105 would effective black list 29855 of those 67108864 which in this example are 1m apart. I don't think that MA is implementing it this way, it's just too much work. Any Ideas ?

Click to expand...

I do not get this .... why blacklist the whole server ???

Here is a pic of a small part of a server



I go there for some narc now since it's going down in MU again = means you will find more. This is the same (now very)small part from that server so with about 100 drops I'm done and can go to the next field of narc on another server.



By mapping it all in LBML I know exacly where to find what, no need to do the whole same server if I'm looking for narc

Liu said:

Leeloo ans Detritus, I love your ideas about this same zone crowdy mining with same and different depths.
What about we try to set up a time to make this little experiment with a few dozen drops a time ? That's not a lot, but after a couple of sessions of let's say 50 drops, that would already be 100's of drops/Peds altogether. Not bad for a sample !

I'm ready to sacrifice a few Peds for the good of mankind !

Click to expand...

Same here I'm in

EDIT : maybe do this with 6 miners ... F-101 up to F-106 ^^

I'm sure KinfoFaces can make some analysis and/or say how we best do this

LeelooM said:

I do not get this .... why blacklist the whole server ???

Here is a pic of a small part of a server

I go there for some narc now since it's going down in MU again = means you will find more. This is the same (now very)small part from that server so with about 100 drops I'm done and can go to the next field of narc on another server.

By mapping it all in LBML I know exacly where to find what, no need to do the whole same server if I'm looking for narc

Click to expand...

I am referring to how the server would store the location of a x,y blacklist and how large that "database" would be.

Liu said:

Leeloo ans Detritus, I love your ideas about this same zone crowdy mining with same and different depths.
What about we try to set up a time to make this little experiment with a few dozen drops a time ? That's not a lot, but after a couple of sessions of let's say 50 drops, that would already be 100's of drops/Peds altogether. Not bad for a sample !

I'm ready to sacrifice a few Peds for the good of mankind !

Click to expand...

What do you mean by zone ?

We are going to have to be very specific about the terms we use in defining things.

LeelooM said:

If I see another green dot where I mine, I mostly send them a pm and ask mining? cause there are also fruitwalkers/hunters. If yes I ask them for ores/enm and I tell them my average depth and ask what depth they are mining. If there is a huge dif, it will not give that much impact but if it's almost the same your HR will be low. Ever tried it out with a soc mate or a mining friend?

Click to expand...

I don't have any friends, lol. Nah, for me it's all anecdotal as well - I've just seen ppl mining in the same place as me and not seen any variance in returns/hr beyond the normal variance. It's an interesting thought to ask about depth, I have not done so.

I think regardless of how we test it, we have to be careful about causation by correlation. Obviously MA controls the output rate of all resources individually. Since the resources are zoned, it follows that two people mining in the same zone are competing for the same resources... I could believe that if someone has been heavily mining a particular spot before me and gotten a lot of a particular resource(s), it would reduce the amount of that particular resource(s) that I receive. It sounds like we are saying the same thing, but the important distinction is in the cause -- am I getting reduced resources because of the location or because of the resources? This would provide some insight into the loot algorithm, mainly: are the resources already spawned (like invisible mobs) and waiting to be claimed, or are they simply calculated payouts each time you drop a probe. One way to test this would be to see if we could reproduce the same results from going behind someone who just finished heavily mining a particular spot, versus simply mining for the same resource that someone heavily mined but in a different zone. It's a difficult thing to test.

Liu said:

Leeloo ans Detritus, I love your ideas about this same zone crowdy mining with same and different depths.
What about we try to set up a time to make this little experiment with a few dozen drops a time ? That's not a lot, but after a couple of sessions of let's say 50 drops, that would already be 100's of drops/Peds altogether. Not bad for a sample !

Click to expand...

I'm definitely game! Though I am probably on a different time than y'all and I do stay on Ark mostly. Maybe one weekend I will come to Caly for science.

Detritus said:

Leeloo, I have paid attention to most of your tips in various threads and it has led to mining being consistently profitable for me... so for that I thank you for actually putting the knowledge out there, many people would keep it to themselves.

The only thing I have a really hard time believing is that other people mining an area has any impact - at least right now. Most of the data I've seen supporting this is from a long time ago, and I wonder if this still holds true. It doesn't seem to corroborate what I've observed under the current system. Maybe I missed it, but have any recent tests been done that demonstrate this empirically? I think there was a recent survey and a lot of people said yes but had nothing but anecdotal evidence.

Click to expand...

One thing you always got to bear in mind that MA is tweaking stuff, so a old theory could not work in future. Yes leeloo guide is very good and its what i reconmend for sensiable mining. There are diffrent styles out there, but like one of MA staff said recently each play game is unique. My style is a bit diffrent, but is suits my gameplay. Also i know a couple high level miners 80+ who mainly mines ores indoors useing high level preamp finders and do very well in game.

One thing i have noticed many miners that i have lot respect and know what thet are doing are female avaters.

bigdaddy trim said:

One thing i have noticed many miners that i have lot respect and know what thet are doing are female avaters.

Click to expand...

I think it's due to women having more patience in general. Even though mining has much better returns for me, I find myself not doing it very much because it's so boring and tedious. I have to be in a specific mood.

Men tend to favor instant gratification.... and killing stuff.

Well

Entropia is dynamic
Each avatar hava unique way to play and based this need find you way to make work
if not work keep change util work , none can say whats work , whats not work

you can pick leelo guidelines and follow and see if work
example myself using Md-50 most eco finder in game
get worst results ever compare any other finder F101 , F106 as well

In other hands if using TM8 , roctec cougr high level finder with lelo consider "no-eco"
i get great results and keep doing fine

And none talk here about stupids 1k ped cycle i usual do between 5k to 10k ped/day cycle no tax , no indoor
before compare finders and results

My advice? if not work its time to change util work

There is another thing I noticed but can't explain for the moment (yet)

So when doing a +40% HR zone I might go several times/day and the next day with great end results until the 3th day ... results are always a lot less

Here I dunno if its another miner/economics/MA or something else.

This month I had it with alic and garcen zone ....

Not gonna reply to that female thingy mining/patience

Vadio said:

Well

Entropia is dynamic
Each avatar hava unique way to play and based this need find you way to make work
if not work keep change util work , none can say whats work , whats not work

you can pick leelo guidelines and follow and see if work
example myself using Md-50 most eco finder in game
get worst results ever compare any other finder F101 , F106 as well

In other hands if using TM8 , roctec cougr high level finder with lelo consider "no-eco"
i get great results and keep doing fine

And none talk here about stupids 1k ped cycle i usual do between 5k to 10k ped/day cycle no tax , no indoor
before compare finders and results

My advice? if not work its time to change util work

Click to expand...

See female avater.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Vadio again.

Vadio is one of the top end miners i was talking about.

R4tt3xx said:

What do you mean by zone ?

We are going to have to be very specific about the terms we use in defining things.

Click to expand...

I surely am talking about smaller areas than servers.

Maybe you could consider a zone what some could call a spot ?
I am personally not fully convinced that it's all server scale.

Truth be told, I ain't fully convinced of that many things

LeelooM said:

Same here I'm in

EDIT : maybe do this with 6 miners ... F-101 up to F-106 ^^

I'm sure KinfoFaces can make some analysis and/or say how we best do this

Click to expand...

This is a bit trickier to test compared to previous things, but here's what I would envision:

1. Have everyone go mining in a specific revival zone with the same (or roughly similar) finder depth. Let's say 50 unamped drops for now (ore and enmatter at the same time to speed things up). Pick someone to go first, another follows the exact path shortly behind the first, a third person follows #2, etc. Logistics could be worked out, but we could just generate a list of 110m-spaced coords for each person to drop at once the previous person is done there. If you get claims, pull them. I can't say if open claims affect anything versus one being pulled recently, but just to make sure it's standardized.
3. Repeat #1 with each person having a different depth finder (maybe 150m difference for good measure). This will test if depth affects hit rate due to other people mining at the same depth.
5. Basically do 1, but with no concern over having each person bomb the same location just as long as it's within the same revival zone.
   

#1 is probably the better test first since if there is a difference, 1 will pick up on it, while 2 is kind of secondary to be tried out on a different day only if #1 shows a difference. #2 is basically assuming other miners affect hit rate, but is it only at the depth the previous person mined?

For both of these, the person should track their hit rate and maybe total drops and TT of each claim (exact size is preferable to the categorical claim size). The TT may not be that important, but it's possible claim size might vary too. Maybe just the first and last person in the chain could track TT and optional for others if they don't want to track the extra stuff besides hit rate.

I'd also suggest a single drop at each coordinate rather than dropping again if you find a claim with some search radius remaining. The first person filling out their search radius in this case might help make more differences apparent if there were only two people, but if we can get three or four, a decline in hit rate should still be detectable.

What I would end up doing is testing whether hit rate or average claim size are different comparing the first person to the others. Three or four people doing this would probably do the trick. I'm not really very flexible with time the rest of this week to join, but if it's say next weekend (Feb 23-24) I'd volunteer to go last so no one else has to be hesitant about potentially getting nothing. If someone gets this together before then, I can analyze it at any time as long as I get total drops and number of claims found for each person as well as their order in the chain. If this sounds like a plan for people, we can make sure to have more specific instructions finalized before starting anything.

Edit: I added 3 in since that's been discussed a little bit already. I think 1 would be the best for initial testing, though 3 could be interesting. 2 still seems contingent on differences in 1.

Liu said:

I surely am talking about smaller areas than servers.

Maybe you could consider a zone what some could call a spot ?
I am personally not fully convinced that it's all server scale.

Truth be told, I ain't fully convinced of that many things

Click to expand...

Sometimes people go roughly by revival zones to see how resources are split up within a server. It's really distinct in some areas. Leeloo's LBML maps on page 8 show the exact area where I really noticed this a few years ago. This isn't always the case though. There are some tiny revival zones that are no different than their neighbors, and others are so large (e.g., New Switzerland server) that you can see different resource type boundaries within a revival zone sometimes.

Thank you for your post every time. I'm getting a lot of help from you.

It allows me to think deeply about mining.