DreamNirvana
Guest
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2017
- Posts
- 1
Hey guys, I would like to share something with you, before I do, I'd like to make a few things clear.
#1 This is not a theory. This is not speculation. Every detail I mention here can easily be reproduced and verified.
#2 I'ma copy this to EU Reddit and everywhere else eventually, if this post/my PCF account gets banned/deleted I will redouble efforts to spread this information across every other information outlet possible. People deserve to know hidden mechanics and where their money is going.
#3 this is my first and last post on PCF. I can care less honestly if I get banned from EU for this. I’ve already quit the game after a few years on and off playing, I just thought I should leave this information to the community because I ofc understand what a sore issue this is for all players.
I should also make it clear that I only discovered this because when I last came back, I did so out of curiosity, so that I could test odds and other mechanics. I am an aspiring indie developer and I just wanted to understand once and for all how EU mechanics work for an RCE/MMORPG.
EXPOSED RNG
Not long after having been back, bouncing around just messing with stuff, an old friend told me I should check out RT/Booty Raid (or Crib Raid, but only L1-2 for each otherwise no “dice” appear in instance), because there was some kind of “trick” to manipulate loot in this instance. Naturally, this intrigued me, and I moved to RT for a while to investigate this. The “supposed” trick goes as follows,
#1 Use full TT lockpick to enter BR/CR L1-2
#2 When you get to halfway point, roll dice inside room until you have got both a “snake eyes” and a “lucky 7”
#3 Once you roll snake eyes it causes mobs from the 1st half of instance to reset, go clear them, finish the instance, and more often then not, supposedly, “you will get better loot”
What became clear to me almost right away is that this in itself really does nothing. Yes, you get higher TT value return but ofc, usually a higher TT loss % also, very typical outcome just different mechanics.
But I couldn’t shake this weird feeling I had about this room and this mechanic. As far as I know, this is the only player initiated RNG in all of EU that directly affects your loot outcome, so despite losing tons of ped, I decided to stay and investigate.
DISCOVERY
After like 50 + attempts (I’m not joking) I was starting to think I must have been mistaken. I tried just about every possible manipulation I could think of and recorded all results, and nothing changed in terms of return. I tested high DPP (overkill still translates to higher instance score) low DPP, I even decided to see if I could roll lucky 7’s before I got a snake eyes, in effort to see if lucky 7 by itself altered loot outcome (it did not). The ONLY thing that affects loot outcome is the snake eyes/reset mechanic, after which, I started to eventually realize this was actually quite worse in terms of average return.
I finally got the random idea (I was a man on a mission here) to just keep rolling the dice themselves and see if I noticed anything odd about them. This my friends is where it gets juicy.
FIXED RNG
I rolled BR dice over one thousand times in one instance (again, not joking) and simply recorded the results. I was startled right away when I started to look back over my data because I immediately noticed these dice are rigged (big shocker right?) and not just rigged, but rigged in an interesting way. Essentially what this RNG shows is that no matter how many times you roll, the outcome is basically always going be the same. You will always receive the same number of 1, 2, snake eyes and lucky 7’s no matter what you do. There is no “randomness” at all to it really, only a little bit of pseudo randomness. This also shocked me because this proves that a rigged RNG is determining your loot outcome (again HUGE shocker, right? This is Mind Ark we are talking about here ROFL) but there is much more to this and it gets worse.
REVELATION
I am not sure if the programmer in BR intentionally left those seed values exposed (0-7) or just did not think anyone would ever notice, but obviously, I did. Now that I understood roughly what is going on behind the scenes in return generation, I needed to understand exactly how this translated and reflected in every single “turn” kill, click etc. This was extremely difficult at first (more so for crafting/mining) but since I now had the “key” I could start to translate my return sequence. To test this simply go out hunting, average your cost per kill, then compare that to your % of return on a kill by kill basis. You are going to see this as follows,
0 (snake eyes) = lowest return (this was at one time your “no” loot, now is your lowest % return)
1 = 2nd lowest return
2 = 3rd lowest return
3 = 4th lowest
4 = 5th lowest
5 = 6th lowest
6 = Cost per kill back, break even
7 = TT profit (mini’s and yes, swirl, hof etc)
If you you look at your returns and this RNG you can eventually see “lucky 7” actually comes roughly every 7 “turns”, usually in the form of a small mini (can even be just + 0.02) and can go for a high of 22 turns before this sequence repeats itself, repeatedly. Like I said don’t take my word for it go look for yourself. On average above ground mining, same thing. Usually a “find” every 7 turns. Crafting no condition, again, usually a small mini every 7 turns, before snake eyes eventually follows and return sequence repeats itself. What is even crazier is that if you switch activities, or even switch to say a different mob, you can see that your return sequence will literally follow you down to 10ths of percentages in semi-predictable fashion.
Before you get to excited you need to understand that the algorithm is designed so that when you achieve your minis, swirls, hofs and so on, it basically never equals what it cost to achieve it, aka TT profit is essentially impossible, this is most often reflected in Ubers forcing swirls/hofs but still losing. You can also obviously see you are losing almost all the time. In the rarest of cases I have seen where “true” TT profit has occurred, it is obvious it only has because the system has marked you for extraction or you have already lost this amount once, and if you continue to play, you will lose it, guaranteed. I had started to compare this fixed algorithm to MU returns, “efficiency” and other things, but frankly, was so disgusted I felt I had already had enough (and testing isn’t cheap)
MU IN PROFESSIONS?
Of course, you’re going to say ok well we have always known its fixed to some extent and you should only be focusing mu loot anyway to get the 95% TT return + MU profit. Ok so “cycle” 10k USD, to lose 500$ TT, then receive 95% fixed garbage no mu loot? Then wait a year or 2 to sell it all to the (500-1k) total players left in EU? Please do not make me laugh. This concept may have been ok in the beginning if this rigging did not apply to actual MU return, which it (very clearly) does, the economy is simply not there. There is simply no reason for this unbelievable rigging system.
ADDITIONAL TESTING
I experimented with a few other things that may or may not confuse providers tracking system (I'm not going to outline that here), but really, if you got to use exploits to even survive in a game, you gotta know its broken as f***. I mean EU literally still even operating on an obsolete game engine. Ultimately one of my main missions in this was to uncover the true odds of return in EU, and honestly, try to understand how/why they are not forced by law to disclose odds of success, (here in the USA all online casinos are forced by law to reveal odds) but what I discovered was obvious.
In order to be forced to do such a thing, that would mean that you actually have to have a chance of winning/profit my friends. Without true swirl/hof/ath/mu consistent profit in professions, what do you have in EU? Lol, literally nothing. Not even a small reason I can think of as to why you would be there if not profiting. No story. No pvp (yes, I said no pvp, 0 incentive lol) no…. nothing.
I hope one day a company can take this concept and make it into something truly great because I still believe it is the future of gaming, and I would support it with all my heart and funds.
That’s it for me. If you have any other questions feel free to DM jaxxone#2130 @discord. Again I left EU some time ago but decided to still share this, only because this is a community I have come to love and respect over the years.
Until next time space cowboys.
#1 This is not a theory. This is not speculation. Every detail I mention here can easily be reproduced and verified.
#2 I'ma copy this to EU Reddit and everywhere else eventually, if this post/my PCF account gets banned/deleted I will redouble efforts to spread this information across every other information outlet possible. People deserve to know hidden mechanics and where their money is going.
#3 this is my first and last post on PCF. I can care less honestly if I get banned from EU for this. I’ve already quit the game after a few years on and off playing, I just thought I should leave this information to the community because I ofc understand what a sore issue this is for all players.
I should also make it clear that I only discovered this because when I last came back, I did so out of curiosity, so that I could test odds and other mechanics. I am an aspiring indie developer and I just wanted to understand once and for all how EU mechanics work for an RCE/MMORPG.
EXPOSED RNG
Not long after having been back, bouncing around just messing with stuff, an old friend told me I should check out RT/Booty Raid (or Crib Raid, but only L1-2 for each otherwise no “dice” appear in instance), because there was some kind of “trick” to manipulate loot in this instance. Naturally, this intrigued me, and I moved to RT for a while to investigate this. The “supposed” trick goes as follows,
#1 Use full TT lockpick to enter BR/CR L1-2
#2 When you get to halfway point, roll dice inside room until you have got both a “snake eyes” and a “lucky 7”
#3 Once you roll snake eyes it causes mobs from the 1st half of instance to reset, go clear them, finish the instance, and more often then not, supposedly, “you will get better loot”
What became clear to me almost right away is that this in itself really does nothing. Yes, you get higher TT value return but ofc, usually a higher TT loss % also, very typical outcome just different mechanics.
But I couldn’t shake this weird feeling I had about this room and this mechanic. As far as I know, this is the only player initiated RNG in all of EU that directly affects your loot outcome, so despite losing tons of ped, I decided to stay and investigate.
DISCOVERY
After like 50 + attempts (I’m not joking) I was starting to think I must have been mistaken. I tried just about every possible manipulation I could think of and recorded all results, and nothing changed in terms of return. I tested high DPP (overkill still translates to higher instance score) low DPP, I even decided to see if I could roll lucky 7’s before I got a snake eyes, in effort to see if lucky 7 by itself altered loot outcome (it did not). The ONLY thing that affects loot outcome is the snake eyes/reset mechanic, after which, I started to eventually realize this was actually quite worse in terms of average return.
I finally got the random idea (I was a man on a mission here) to just keep rolling the dice themselves and see if I noticed anything odd about them. This my friends is where it gets juicy.
FIXED RNG
I rolled BR dice over one thousand times in one instance (again, not joking) and simply recorded the results. I was startled right away when I started to look back over my data because I immediately noticed these dice are rigged (big shocker right?) and not just rigged, but rigged in an interesting way. Essentially what this RNG shows is that no matter how many times you roll, the outcome is basically always going be the same. You will always receive the same number of 1, 2, snake eyes and lucky 7’s no matter what you do. There is no “randomness” at all to it really, only a little bit of pseudo randomness. This also shocked me because this proves that a rigged RNG is determining your loot outcome (again HUGE shocker, right? This is Mind Ark we are talking about here ROFL) but there is much more to this and it gets worse.
REVELATION
I am not sure if the programmer in BR intentionally left those seed values exposed (0-7) or just did not think anyone would ever notice, but obviously, I did. Now that I understood roughly what is going on behind the scenes in return generation, I needed to understand exactly how this translated and reflected in every single “turn” kill, click etc. This was extremely difficult at first (more so for crafting/mining) but since I now had the “key” I could start to translate my return sequence. To test this simply go out hunting, average your cost per kill, then compare that to your % of return on a kill by kill basis. You are going to see this as follows,
0 (snake eyes) = lowest return (this was at one time your “no” loot, now is your lowest % return)
1 = 2nd lowest return
2 = 3rd lowest return
3 = 4th lowest
4 = 5th lowest
5 = 6th lowest
6 = Cost per kill back, break even
7 = TT profit (mini’s and yes, swirl, hof etc)
If you you look at your returns and this RNG you can eventually see “lucky 7” actually comes roughly every 7 “turns”, usually in the form of a small mini (can even be just + 0.02) and can go for a high of 22 turns before this sequence repeats itself, repeatedly. Like I said don’t take my word for it go look for yourself. On average above ground mining, same thing. Usually a “find” every 7 turns. Crafting no condition, again, usually a small mini every 7 turns, before snake eyes eventually follows and return sequence repeats itself. What is even crazier is that if you switch activities, or even switch to say a different mob, you can see that your return sequence will literally follow you down to 10ths of percentages in semi-predictable fashion.
Before you get to excited you need to understand that the algorithm is designed so that when you achieve your minis, swirls, hofs and so on, it basically never equals what it cost to achieve it, aka TT profit is essentially impossible, this is most often reflected in Ubers forcing swirls/hofs but still losing. You can also obviously see you are losing almost all the time. In the rarest of cases I have seen where “true” TT profit has occurred, it is obvious it only has because the system has marked you for extraction or you have already lost this amount once, and if you continue to play, you will lose it, guaranteed. I had started to compare this fixed algorithm to MU returns, “efficiency” and other things, but frankly, was so disgusted I felt I had already had enough (and testing isn’t cheap)
MU IN PROFESSIONS?
Of course, you’re going to say ok well we have always known its fixed to some extent and you should only be focusing mu loot anyway to get the 95% TT return + MU profit. Ok so “cycle” 10k USD, to lose 500$ TT, then receive 95% fixed garbage no mu loot? Then wait a year or 2 to sell it all to the (500-1k) total players left in EU? Please do not make me laugh. This concept may have been ok in the beginning if this rigging did not apply to actual MU return, which it (very clearly) does, the economy is simply not there. There is simply no reason for this unbelievable rigging system.
ADDITIONAL TESTING
I experimented with a few other things that may or may not confuse providers tracking system (I'm not going to outline that here), but really, if you got to use exploits to even survive in a game, you gotta know its broken as f***. I mean EU literally still even operating on an obsolete game engine. Ultimately one of my main missions in this was to uncover the true odds of return in EU, and honestly, try to understand how/why they are not forced by law to disclose odds of success, (here in the USA all online casinos are forced by law to reveal odds) but what I discovered was obvious.
In order to be forced to do such a thing, that would mean that you actually have to have a chance of winning/profit my friends. Without true swirl/hof/ath/mu consistent profit in professions, what do you have in EU? Lol, literally nothing. Not even a small reason I can think of as to why you would be there if not profiting. No story. No pvp (yes, I said no pvp, 0 incentive lol) no…. nothing.
I hope one day a company can take this concept and make it into something truly great because I still believe it is the future of gaming, and I would support it with all my heart and funds.
That’s it for me. If you have any other questions feel free to DM jaxxone#2130 @discord. Again I left EU some time ago but decided to still share this, only because this is a community I have come to love and respect over the years.
Until next time space cowboys.