GeorgeSkywalker
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Anyone know the Formulae for DPP and Efficiency?
Formulae for DPP and Efficiency
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Angel O2 Mercer
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Efficiency is a parameter
DPP is (damage) / (cost in pec)
If you mean the correlation between them, there is none.
DPP is (damage) / (cost in pec)
If you mean the correlation between them, there is none.
narfi
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I am quite curious about this as well, even though I do not believe it matters much for my level of play.
Efficiency can range between 0 and 100?
What is expected long term tt % using a 0 eff weapon? (grindhouse series)
What is expected long term tt % using a 100 eff weapon? (is there a 100?)
Is the difference between those linear or curved? (greater(or less) difference in returns between 0 and 50 than between 50 and 100)
Test server mob ALPHA
Lets assume identical eff weapons for each player, and only worry about cost to kill.
It cost Evey 10ped to kill each ALPHA
It cost Narfi 15ped to kill each ALPHA
it cost Tom and Sylvester Noob a combined 20ped to kill each ALPHA
Purely my speculation here based on what Evey said:
Suppose Evey reached the ideal cost to kill, he gets 5 ped of stackables and items + 4 ped of shrapnel (90%)(1ped loss)
Narfi spent an extra 5 ped and must be compensated for his costs, but not rewarded for his gamble, he gets 5 ped of stackables and items + 8.5ped of shrapnel (90%)(1.5ped loss)
Tom and Sylvester spent an extra 10ped and must be compensated for their costs, but not rewarded for the gamble, they get 5ped of stackables and items + 13ped of shrapnel.
This is an interesting theory, it makes sense to me, i do not know if it is true, but it does not answer the question of dpp, it answers the question of cost to kill.
dpp and cost to kill are very closely related, but are different. How does that play out?
Efficiency can range between 0 and 100?
What is expected long term tt % using a 0 eff weapon? (grindhouse series)
What is expected long term tt % using a 100 eff weapon? (is there a 100?)
Is the difference between those linear or curved? (greater(or less) difference in returns between 0 and 50 than between 50 and 100)
I am trying to understand how this works, so here is a theoretical example.
Test server mob ALPHA
Lets assume identical eff weapons for each player, and only worry about cost to kill.
It cost Evey 10ped to kill each ALPHA
It cost Narfi 15ped to kill each ALPHA
it cost Tom and Sylvester Noob a combined 20ped to kill each ALPHA
Purely my speculation here based on what Evey said:
Suppose Evey reached the ideal cost to kill, he gets 5 ped of stackables and items + 4 ped of shrapnel (90%)(1ped loss)
Narfi spent an extra 5 ped and must be compensated for his costs, but not rewarded for his gamble, he gets 5 ped of stackables and items + 8.5ped of shrapnel (90%)(1.5ped loss)
Tom and Sylvester spent an extra 10ped and must be compensated for their costs, but not rewarded for the gamble, they get 5ped of stackables and items + 13ped of shrapnel.
This is an interesting theory, it makes sense to me, i do not know if it is true, but it does not answer the question of dpp, it answers the question of cost to kill.
dpp and cost to kill are very closely related, but are different. How does that play out?
BackBone
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Values aren't related.
Efficiency is a fixed value. It affects loot TT.
DPP is a variable value. Each shot has its own DPP and is calculated simply by DMG/PEC of that shot. It affects loot composition.
How much loot TT and composition is affected, no one knows (needs extensive testing?).
Sub-Zero
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I was under the impression that efficiency improved your chance to getting better loot composition by 1-7%...?
Evey
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Now you know it's not like that. It's 7% tt return, not composition.
People should read the dev notes
Sub-Zero
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Now you know it's not like that. It's 7% tt return, not composition.
People should read the dev notes
I did, back when they were released. I guess my memory has failed me.
narfi
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So 100 eff = 100% average tt return? 100 - (7*0.00)
and 0 eff = 93% average tt return? 100 - (7*1.0)
Rick said his club is 79eff, I think my knife is 66ish
Ricks club = 98.53% average tt return?
My knife = 97.62% average tt return?
That is a less than 1% difference, and is brought even closer when considering armor and fap decay and however that is calculated in loot.
Edit: even .5% can make a difference when considering a million ped turnover - 5k ped
Suppose you cycle 50k a month between depos, thats roughly 2k a day cycled, that .5% comes to a 25ped difference which is pretty negligible if you are depositing monthly.
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Jhereg
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That near 1% difference is pretty huge
Also realize, devs never said what the top and lower end of the scale is. Could be 100%, could be 99%, could be floating...
Many have conjectured, myself included, that MA will float the top end of the scale so they can making their living
Evey
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Easiest way to explain is:
Narfi with 100% efficiency will loot with 7% more than Narfi with 0 efficiency.
messi91
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I did, back when they were released. I guess my memory has failed me.
This is why we have google.To read devs notes everytime we forget what they wrote and never assume anything.
~ Cirrus ~
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Yes there is a direct correlation for every weapons that already were in game before and at the time Efficiency was introduced.
(when they introduced Efficiency, they made it match whith DPP of existing weapons)
There is none for every weapons that appeared after Efficiency was introduced.
At least no "direct" correlation as much obvious than it is for "old" items.
Cause I still don't know a weapon whith great efficiency and very bad DPP..
But theorically, now it's possible to get one.
slither
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There's a few weaps in wiki with differing dpp/eff. This probably means that whoever tested the decay got it wrong, but it's possible MA didn't match them all exactly.
BackBone
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Yes there is a direct correlation for every weapons that already were in game before and at the time Efficiency was introduced.
(when they introduced Efficiency, they made it match whith DPP of existing weapons)
There is none for every weapons that appeared after Efficiency was introduced.
At least no "direct" correlation as much obvious than it is for "old" items.
Cause I still don't know a weapon whith great efficiency and very bad DPP..
But theorically, now it's possible to get one.
We can see some discrepancies between Eff and DPP: (the amazing BC-120 is a glaring point)
Table ordered by Efficiency.
narfi
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Maybe that is easier to explain, but it is not how math works.
100 * 0.93 * 1.07 does not equal 100.
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Evey
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Maybe not easy to grasp but that's how it works. There is no set % tt return that you must hit if you use x and y tools... there are too many variables and cycles too big and like zho, I too think that 'setting' is easy to adjust but I don't think it's noticeable. A fixed % and a list of items to use to hit it would be too easy, like PRE loo 2.0 when you had to get 3.15 dpp and you could tt profit. The system has changed to be ...more dynamic
BackBone
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1) Assuming a linear progression regarding Efficiency.
2) Assuming a base of 60 efficiency for a casual hunter. Efficiency multiplier = 4.2%
3) Assuming 80 efficiency for a well equiped hunter. Efficiency multiplier = 5.6%
X = Base loot value
"Real loot_casual hunter" = X * 1.042
"Real loot_top hunter" = X * 1.056
Going up 20 points in efficiency gives a 1.4% loot boost.
The value of X is variable, can be from 0.5 up to 1000x the cost to kill (numbers not exact, just to ilustrate the point).
~ Cirrus ~
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Weren't these weapons introduced after the introduction of efficiency ?
If yes, that confirm what I said.
If not, I don't know..
I think DPP was by far the main parameter to set Efficiency on "old" weapons.
But it was probably not the only one. (range, power, dps..? )
BackBone
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Weren't these weapons introduced after the introduction of efficiency ?
If yes, that confirm what I said.
If not, I don't know..
Indeed now i realized looking at my own table that weapons with SIB and without SIB have diferent relation between EFF and DPP. You are right.