Question: Mining depth matters?

Does deep finding matter? I mean will, a miner see benefit from 2000m range compared to 1500m in term of % income of the rare resources in long term? As pr todays, all you need is a 1000m depths and you will hit any rare resource.

Does the same applies to range? (will it make you have higher hit rate for example?)

Depth indeed makes a difference when mining.

However we do agree that this is a system that could use some improvements that would make mining more interesting and diverse.

Dennis|MindArk said:

Depth indeed makes a difference when mining.

However we do agree that this is a system that could use some improvements that would make mining more interesting and diverse.

Click to expand...

Yes skills and depth matters, but it should be increased to give more reason to skill up and not far beyond L50+ as it is now

Dennis|MindArk said:

Depth indeed makes a difference when mining.

However we do agree that this is a system that could use some improvements that would make mining more interesting and diverse.

Click to expand...

Would one of these be putting more rare materials in areas that tend to be more guarded than others, encouraging miners to work with hunters in teams, and catering to a real life skill more? Or to perhaps cross-skill and partake in multiple activities at once?

It would balance things more towards real life skills and intelligent thought/planning/teamwork.

Psynergy said:

Would one of these be putting more rare materials in areas that tend to be more guarded than others, encouraging miners to work with hunters in teams, and catering to a real life skill more? Or to perhaps cross-skill and partake in multiple activities at once?

It would balance things more towards real life skills and intelligent thought/planning/teamwork.

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I hate this idea and have no idea how you expect it work. Miners are lone wolfs and that how i prefer it.

bigdaddy trim said:

I hate this idea and have no idea how you expect it work. Miners are lone wolfs and that how i prefer it.

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Simple, and if designed right, it wouldn't change anything for you. You're just hating something instead of asking questions, it doesn't have to prevent you from having what you have now.
Everything should be done in parallel not as a forced change to others.

How to do it?

Put more availability of one selection of rare resources in areas where mobs DO exist. Domes with mobs or land areas where part of the land area has mobs would generate higher rarity indexes for ores. Doesn't mean you have to be in the middle of them.

Then to encourage a different type of gameplay(mining where no mobs are)you put other rare resources in areas where mobs do NOT exist.

There will naturally be more people in the area without mobs, sure markups will be lower, but people can mine how they want to mine...I mine in pvp so I can explicitly shoot anyone in my way.

Let markup and natural diversification of the miners into different types of mining determine markups and supply/demand.


Now as far as the team factor: Mine in areas where hunters have cleared the mobs from, or mine outside aggro range of the mobs and proceed around the spawn. Or bring your own gun, or mine alongside a group that can defend themselves and you and share a tip with them. Encourages professions to interact.

Right now, mining is pretty much something that doesn't require anything except clicking and dropping and many of us find it boring as sin. In addition there are far too few factors you can leverage, such as pvp, that protect the markup of certain resources. Lack of exclusivity of materials to how you can access these resources(location, style of play such as pvp mining or mining near mobs, other methods) causes a lack of diversity of game play.

Just like you don't like the idea of mining near these mobs, that would also introduce a further scarcity of these resources so people come along with different styles, who do want to mind mining this way. These people would be able to find their niche better instead of everything being 'deposit, buy skill, drop in mobless area over and over each day, never do anything else'...it lacks diversity of gameplay.

I might also add that not all miners are lone wolves. I mine myself, currently using a beautiful terratech 7 T8. I work with others in a close knit group, mine in odd places and do indeed find some interesting finds, and yeah. Gotta find your niche and more ways to find that are always good for the game. New guys should be able to find their piece too.

Psynergy said:

There will naturally be more people in the area without mobs, sure markups will be lower, but people can mine how they want to mine...I mine in pvp so I can explicitly shoot anyone in my way.

Let markup and natural diversification of the miners into different types of mining determine markups and supply/demand.

Click to expand...

This this should be down to skills and depth and not down to mobs in certain areas.

Psynergy said:

Now as far as the team factor: Mine in areas where hunters have cleared the mobs from, or mine outside aggro range of the mobs and proceed around the spawn. Or bring your own gun, or mine alongside a group that can defend themselves and you and share a tip with them. Encourages professions to interact.

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This is a terrable idea. A lot of miners like to drop a good 100 drops, before digging them up. You would have continuly defending your self to dig up claims. If no hunters around to keep me protected i would be losing claims all the time. You try mining around a group of pop dragons or try in hell with demons around you. Then you got revive counter on top of that. I already have to deal with mobs now mining, your idea is absolotly dreadful.

Psynergy said:

Right now, mining is pretty much something that doesn't require anything except clicking and dropping and many of us find it boring as sin. In addition there are far too few factors you can leverage, such as pvp, that protect the markup of certain resources. Lack of exclusivity of materials to how you can access these resources(location, style of play such as pvp mining or mining near mobs, other methods) causes a lack of diversity of game play.

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If you think that then you have no idea what involoves in mining

Psynergy said:

Just like you don't like the idea of mining near these mobs, that would also introduce a further scarcity of these resources so people come along with different styles, who do want to mind mining this way. These people would be able to find their niche better instead of everything being 'deposit, buy skill, drop in mobless area over and over each day, never do anything else'...it lacks diversity of gameplay.

I might also add that not all miners are lone wolves. I mine myself, currently using a beautiful terratech 7 T8. I work with others in a close knit group, mine in odd places and do indeed find some interesting finds, and yeah. Gotta find your niche and more ways to find that are always good for the game. New guys should be able to find their piece too.

Click to expand...

terratech is this not a wood cutter?

tryou said:

Does deep finding matter? I mean will, a miner see benefit from 2000m range compared to 1500m in term of % income of the rare resources in long term? As pr todays, all you need is a 1000m depths and you will hit any rare resource.

Does the same applies to range? (will it make you have higher hit rate for example?)

Click to expand...

Right now all you need is lvl30 in mining and using Terramaster with high tiers and depth enhancers and you will be compeeting with a lvl 100 miners. Sounds fair right?

bigdaddy trim said:

terratech is this not a wood cutter?

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Terratech is indeed harvester tool not mining finder

Dennis|MindArk said:

Depth indeed makes a difference when mining.

However we do agree that this is a system that could use some improvements that would make mining more interesting and diverse.

Click to expand...

Agree with this statement from Dennis as for mining depths do help miners to mine for MU in areas that require atleast 999-1100m range. But miner levels of 40-60 and beyond are definitely in need of more of 'reason(s)' to further skill up.

So the 'million dollar' question is wondering when MA will introduce or improve mining to v3.0 (even adjust mining 2.0)?

Also, to go back with the rest of the topic being discussed in this thread, I'm both a hunter and miner, or you could say a "Munter", lol. There are spots that do require to interact with mobs in order to mine and then there are spots in mining that you don't have any mobs in the area. For how it is now, depends on what materials or MUs to look for, but overall, each miner can mine how they want and play how ever they want.

Just hope MA sees this and could atleast give a time frame range estimate or 'mining vision plan roadmap for EU' for this question that even MA says needs some improving.

Psynergy said:

Right now, mining is pretty much something that doesn't require anything except clicking and dropping and many of us find it boring as sin. In addition there are far too few factors you can leverage, such as pvp, that protect the markup of certain resources. Lack of exclusivity of materials to how you can access these resources(location, style of play such as pvp mining or mining near mobs, other methods) causes a lack of diversity of game play.

Click to expand...

Far from it if you're doing mining right at least. The big factor you missed is mapping resources, figuring out average MU in an area, etc. at a finer detail than what LBML shows. There are a couple areas already I could get 120%+ markup, but I generally don't bother because of mobs and stick to similar areas with lower densities. If someone really wanted to team up with hunters, there are areas that would work out already.

kingofaces said:

Far from it if you're doing mining right at least. The big factor you missed is mapping resources, figuring out average MU in an area, etc. at a finer detail than what LBML shows. There are a couple areas already I could get 120%+ markup, but I generally don't bother because of mobs and stick to similar areas with lower densities. If someone really wanted to team up with hunters, there are areas that would work out already.

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Fully agree with this !!!

As from my point of few Mining 2.0 already made a HUGE change in a very positive way.
If you know how to mine correctly it will give you a nice profit.

Correct mining (or how I see it + making profit) can't be done between mobs at all.

So I mainly see a few groups of different miners here (no human is the same neither) :
- The hunters that drop a probe now and then between killing mobs
- Those with a high tiered up finders with lots of depth enhancers that run around in an area where they ever found some more rare ores.
- People running around in a mob free area and dropping probes while they have there fingers crossed, mostly with amps
- And then there is the real miner, watching his LBML, using the correct depth to find what he wants, always mining on his own in a mob free zone

I also think mining can be improved even more but there is still a long way to go.
Look at what resources we have out there that do not have a purpose anymore since no BP's dropping to use them, mainly looking at ark for mostly ark related enmatter and not to forget treasures. Why are people still mining for treasures? cause there is a demand for textures and that's it mostly.
Why is dunkel so hard to get??? Many miners I know want to buy the F-106 ... but they cannot be crafted cause of the lack of dunkel

And for depth ....
For now you only need mining over 800 depth for some more rare ores, no big deal getting them. So why you need a finder that goes 2K deep (besides bragging you can use it) ??? It only will make your run a lot more expensive with paying MU + depth enhancers and you might not find what you are looking for.
Agree, if I'm mining in a area where I know there are some rare ores, I use a few depth enhancers... like 5 to go to 1,2K depth to find some, so I pay an extra 2 depth enhancers in 100 drops, but I keep focusing on resources that are like 110-120% MU to give me more stability and profit for now.

Until all those problems with BP's and the use of some resources are handled, I'll just keep dropping probes

I also see a lot has changed since the new CEO in a very positive way.
MA you did a great job, also with mining 2.0 so keep up the good works !!!

bigdaddy trim said:

Yes skills and depth matters, but it should be increased to give more reason to skill up and not far beyond L50+ as it is now

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Just FYI, the only effect skills has, is to max out a finder / excavator. They do nothing else.

Rgds

Ace

Ace Flyster said:

Just FYI, the only effect skills has, is to max out a finder / excavator. They do nothing else.

Rgds

Ace

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I found that i am more likey to find stuff that need depth once i unlocked miner. My main tool for high depth is the milf and i have maxed out on long before. Maybe it just me seeing something not there then or maybe MA been tweeking.

Not much to go here.

Dennis|MindArk said:

Skills have an impact on pretty much every economic activity in Entropia Universe.

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http://https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?308632-Miner-Skills

kingofaces said:

Far from it if you're doing mining right at least. The big factor you missed is mapping resources, figuring out average MU in an area, etc. at a finer detail than what LBML shows. There are a couple areas already I could get 120%+ markup, but I generally don't bother because of mobs and stick to similar areas with lower densities. If someone really wanted to team up with hunters, there are areas that would work out already.

Click to expand...

Psynergy said:

Encourages professions to interact.

Right now, mining is pretty much something that doesn't require anything except clicking and dropping and many of us find it boring as sin. In addition there are far too few factors you can leverage, such as pvp, that protect the markup of certain resources. Lack of exclusivity of materials to how you can access these resources(location, style of play such as pvp mining or mining near mobs, other methods) causes a lack of diversity of game play.

I might also add that not all miners are lone wolves.

Click to expand...

A few points to make here.

1) The mining system is absolutely boring, and simple. And that's the way some people like it - this also makes it easy for MA to balance. It's not as simple as click and drop, just like hunting is not as simple as point and shoot. I think there is a balance to be found where Mindark can increase the complexity and/or "fun factor" of mining without hurting the game economy. I hope they start experimenting with this as soon as possible as mining has received almost zero attention in the past, what? Decade or so? Lack of mining-related events also a huge disappointment.

2) About Psyenergy's comments, I have to disagree with the underlying premise. This is largely my opinion, but I believe EU players are, for the most part, inherently anti-social. The nature of EU is sort of built around this assumption as well. This game has a type, and that type has remained the same since EU's inception. We don't want to rely on others to go about our daily business. Most EU players just want to grind in peace, maybe do the occasional team hunt for fun. As far as locking out rare resources to more difficult to access areas, PvP mining already accomplishes this, as well as certain mob infested areas as Kingofaces mentioned. I see no reason to give hunters/PvPers any more advantage over pure miners. Slippery slope eh. Maybe they'll start putting better EPIV crafting terminals in the middle of Atrox nests too?

3) Now sort of bringing those two discussions together, does anyone remember robot beacons? I mean, old school robot beacons. The ones that would spawn a spaceship and a little battle with a group of robots while mining. As far as "mixing the professions" goes, I think that was a beautiful way to do it. I'd like to see more of that. There are so many ways MA could make mining more exciting without pissing anyone off. The players of EU are their best resource and I hope this short AMA was just the beginning of their interaction with the community.

ZPF said:

3) Now sort of bringing those two discussions together, does anyone remember robot beacons? I mean, old school robot beacons. The ones that would spawn a spaceship and a little battle with a group of robots while mining. As far as "mixing the professions" goes, I think that was a beautiful way to do it. I'd like to see more of that. There are so many ways MA could make mining more exciting without pissing anyone off. The players of EU are their best resource and I hope this short AMA was just the beginning of their interaction with the community.

Click to expand...

I remember them very well and loved it also.
But for none skilled people it was a pain in the ass cause they didn't had the skills to kill the drones and I even remember that others could kill the drones and take the beacon loot if the miner wasn't fast enough, so bye bye loot.

Now with the mining boxes that problem is solved, you only need to buy key's in the webshop for opening them or sell the boxes ingame. Another smart move from MA imo.

bigdaddy trim said:

I found that i am more likey to find stuff that need depth once i unlocked miner. My main tool for high depth is the milf and i have maxed out on long before. Maybe it just me seeing something not there then or maybe MA been tweeking.

Not much to go here.

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I am not going to argue - i have millions of peds spent and tracked, detailed. Skills have never effected loot in mining, only the tool you use.

MA probably just mean skills effects the tools you can use efficiently.

Believe what you will.

EDIT: i go the whole hog and say skills NEVER effect loot in any way in any profession.

Rgds

Ace

Ace Flyster said:

I am not going to argue - i have millions of peds spent and tracked, detailed. Skills have never effected loot in mining, only the tool you use.

MA probably just mean skills effects the tools you can use efficiently.

Believe what you will.


Rgds

Ace

Click to expand...

I think the same way

The tool is there to find the resources and the skills to use that tool.

EDIT : Counts for your edit also

LeelooM said:

I remember them very well and loved it also.
But for none skilled people it was a pain in the ass cause they didn't had the skills to kill the drones and I even remember that others could kill the drones and take the beacon loot if the miner wasn't fast enough, so bye bye loot.

Now with the mining boxes that problem is solved, you only need to buy key's in the webshop for opening them or sell the boxes ingame. Another smart move from MA imo.

Click to expand...

I just ran at the ship, looted the beacon, and died. This was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that you didn't have to fight the robots I still thought it was cool. They could just lock the loot to the miner to prevent thieves. I also like the mining boxes. They made them very rare to prevent a flood of mining resources from boxes crashing markups. Smart indeed.

Speaking of locking loot, I still don't understand why we can't trade "claim deeds"

Ace Flyster said:

I am not going to argue - i have millions of peds spent and tracked, detailed. Skills have never effected loot in mining, only the tool you use.

MA probably just mean skills effects the tools you can use efficiently.

Believe what you will.


Rgds

Ace

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I am not arguing back Ace. You certinaly have a lot more expeince than and done more testing than me. I am not one for tests or spreadsheets. When i said it must be me seeing patterens that are not there, i was not being sarcastic. It would of been better If MA did give more detailed answer and i do wish skill did have affect on mining itself and just on tools.

ZPF said:

I just ran at the ship, looted the beacon, and died. This was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that you didn't have to fight the robots I still thought it was cool. They could just lock the loot to the miner to prevent thieves. I also like the mining boxes. They made them very rare to prevent a flood of mining resources from boxes crashing markups. Smart indeed.

Speaking of locking loot, I still don't understand why we can't trade "claim deeds"

Click to expand...

Nope you didn't have to fight them! Two or three low level drones, for a naked miner that was a royal pain lol.

'You have found a strange signal' text on the finder. Always out of range, like 200m or more. Adrenaline going the whole time as someone else could get there first...damn they were good fun. Always 50 ped loot as well, gauranteed glowie

Rgds

Ace

bigdaddy trim said:

I am not arguing back Ace. You certinaly have a lot more expeince than and done more testing than me. I am not one for tests or spreadsheets. When i said it must be me seeing patterens that are not there, i was not being sarcastic. It would of been better If MA did give more detailed answer and i do wish skill did have affect on mining itself and just on tools.

Click to expand...

Apologies for coming across a little strong. In the past people use to throw around, if you get perception that means 'such and such'. And I tend to jump when someone 'gets a feeling'.

I also wish skills had an effect on loot. That way there would be no end game for skills. With mining there is no need above 62?64 i forget which.

Maybe skills had more of an effect on rares, but not tt return, would be beneficial to no end game mining skills. Who knows?!? MA couldn't pay me a million £'s to sort the economy in PE!

Rgds

Ace

bigdaddy trim said:

I am not arguing back Ace. You certinaly have a lot more expeince than and done more testing than me. I am not one for tests or spreadsheets. When i said it must be me seeing patterens that are not there, i was not being sarcastic. It would of been better If MA did give more detailed answer and i do wish skill did have affect on mining itself and just on tools.

Click to expand...

Part of the fun of EU is finding our own answers to these questions, IMO.

But I can concur with Ace, skills don't seem to affect mining at all. Gear, location and timing are the only factors that have made a difference for me.

And I also hope we get more "interesting" mining gear that requires higher skills to use.

ZPF said:

Part of the fun of EU is finding our own answers to these questions, IMO.

But I can concur with Ace, skills don't seem to affect mining at all. Gear, location and timing are the only factors that have made a difference for me.

And I also hope we get more "interesting" mining gear that requires higher skills to use.

Click to expand...

Did you noticed the widgets .... tech- armor- and attachments gizmo's ..... but no ... tool gizmo's yet ...

That makes me think MA is still working on it and hope to see those soon in game to drop new tools???

LeelooM said:

And for depth ....
For now you only need mining over 800 depth for some more rare ores, no big deal getting them. So why you need a finder that goes 2K deep (besides bragging you can use it) ??? It only will make your run a lot more expensive with paying MU + depth enhancers and you might not find what you are looking for.
Agree, if I'm mining in a area where I know there are some rare ores, I use a few depth enhancers... like 5 to go to 1,2K depth to find some, so I pay an extra 2 depth enhancers in 100 drops, but I keep focusing on resources that are like 110-120% MU to give me more stability and profit for now.

Click to expand...

I think thats the whole points here of the question. Why use 800m vs 2000m if there is no reason for it? Does that makes sense? Or perhaps, does it make sense that the system is build up like that?

We dunno if you are supposted to find 3% more rares doing 2000m vs 800m as example. I have no data showing this is true, but I hoped and wish it was different, that mining depth perhaps had more meaning than what we have today.

MA did not answer this correctly so we dunno ...

Ace Flyster said:

Just FYI, the only effect skills has, is to max out a finder / excavator. They do nothing else.

Rgds

Ace

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Exactly ... And thats the non sense part. Why not add 0.1% more TT return for example after xx skil or lvl up ...

TheRock said:

Exactly ... And thats the non sense part. Why not add 0.1% more TT return for example after xx skil or lvl up ...

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Yeah once i unlocked miner late last year, i presumed it would help me find better type of mats. I have seen a diffrence in my finds not tt wise, but the type of resource. For exsample i Hell the koko dome i hardly ever find Belker, but always Megan. Planetside more Ing and Terra, but less lyst. Then again is this MA tweeking with mats or some other variable factor, or just me seeing something not there.

So i guess my next question if we have another AMA whats the point of Drilling Expertise as there no tool that need that unlocked or i can see it has any use in game.

bigdaddy trim said:

Yeah once i unlocked miner late last year, i presumed it would help me find better type of mats. I have seen a diffrence in my finds not tt wise, but the type of resource. For exsample i Hell the koko dome i hardly ever find Belker, but always Megan. Planetside more Ing and Terra, but less lyst. Then again is this MA tweeking with mats or some other variable factor, or just me seeing something not there.

So i guess my next question if we have another AMA whats the point of Drilling Expertise as there no tool that need that unlocked or i can see it has any use in game.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Megan/Ignisium have crashed heavily in price recently - this is usually due to a change to the resource mix by Mindark, so you'd probably be correct in your assumption of "Tweaking".

Igni is almost completely crashed now and redu is going the same way but a lot slower.

As we know that some resources are blocked by amps, for igni and redu this is not the case and why ???


Both are used in high lvl amp crafting. Miners using those are making (in about 99%) huge losses by chasing some towers/ATH and need to keep making depo's or go broke.

Here again, very good thinking of MA to feed them