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Thread: Punishment

  1. #1
    Old Alpha
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    Punishment

    Good afternoon

    We all know that if you accidentally threw things in The TT terminal that, regardless of its value, you can return it for 1000 peds,let's just say you pay a fine for your mistake.
    The question is what if MA can the official list of penalties for certain violations in the game do ?
    Last edited by InvisibleAndre; 02-07-2019 at 10:27.

  2. #2
    The 1000 PED required to recover an item accidentally sold to the Trade Terminal is a voluntary processing fee, not a fine or penalty.

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    Old Alpha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis|MindArk View Post
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    The 1000 PED required to recover an item accidentally sold to the Trade Terminal is a voluntary processing fee, not a fine or penalty.
    voluntary collection is when you yourself are ready to give 1000 peds, and without it you just do not return things

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    Stalker Sub-Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis|MindArk View Post
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    The 1000 PED required to recover an item accidentally sold to the Trade Terminal is a voluntary processing fee, not a fine or penalty.
    There are three main reasons that I can think of why you guys have this fee in place.
    1. To limit the amount of requests to recover lost items because of too time consuming to check logs to confirm.
    2. Having limit so high it fulfills option 1, and also as bonus earns you guys some extra bucks also.
    3. An expensive lesson for players, making them pay more attention in the future.

    Problem with this setup.
    1. For items with low market value (below 1000 peds) it will not be worth it, so players are forced to lose their item for an honest mistake. That can lower player trust.
    2. If player trust is lowered, the player retention will be affected negatively.
    3. Some people even leave the game forever when they find out about this.

    Possible solutions.
    1. Implement an automatic system which automatically saves the last XX items TTed by the player. New option in trade terminal to recover an specific item that you traded to it, provided you pay 200% the TT value.
    2. If option 1 is too time consuming to create. Consider lowering the fee for first time offenses, i.e 200 ped for first time, 500 ped for 2nd, 1000 ped for third and thereafter. Then the player only got themselves to blame for constantly making mistakes and it should create a more positive outcome rather than completely negative from the get-go.

  5. #5
    Guardian osten's Avatar
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    Before asking for any new features, better ask yourself: who will pay for the work of implementing it. I doubt the suggested 200% will make it worthwhile the first 10 years.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-Zero View Post
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    Problem with this setup.
    1. For items with low market value (below 1000 peds) it will not be worth it, so players are forced to lose their item for an honest mistake. That can lower player trust.
    2. If player trust is lowered, the player retention will be affected negatively.
    3. Some people even leave the game forever when they find out about this.
    I was selling loot to TT but repairing A106 was on my todo list also. I forgot to switch terminals and tted my amp. It was tt+1400 back then so I took their deal, 1000ped fee for my amp back. But I wouldn't call it "voluntary processing fee" nor fair. How can you explain 1000ped fee when withdrawal has only 100ped? It's a penalty and extra income source for MA. And it's not time consuming - when I sent my support case then got back to me after less than 20 minutes confirming they saw my transaction in logs. Restoring sold item is a matter of minutes, not hours or days so $100 is too high if you ask me. I told them I play 10 years and it's first time it happened to me so would be great if they could lift that fee for me first time - but they didn't care apparently.

    Anyway I did more or less what you predicted - my trust in them was the lowest it ever been and I decided to make a little boycott. I didn't quit but I lowered my activity level, instead of hunting as I always did, I traded my way out of that fee. I track my hunting returns very very carefully and I can tell the time I committed to gain that 1kped back trading - I would lose around 3kped (and get it back in MU but that's another story ). So at the end I lost nothing in PED - only some experience I would get hunting. MA gained 1kped due to my mistake but lost 3kped due to my break in hunting. That's the example of penny wise and pound foolish

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimon Frey View Post
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    I was selling loot to TT but repairing A106 was on my todo list also. I forgot to switch terminals and tted my amp. It was tt+1400 back then so I took their deal, 1000ped fee for my amp back. But I wouldn't call it "voluntary processing fee" nor fair. How can you explain 1000ped fee when withdrawal has only 100ped? It's a penalty and extra income source for MA. And it's not time consuming - when I sent my support case then got back to me after less than 20 minutes confirming they saw my transaction in logs. Restoring sold item is a matter of minutes, not hours or days so $100 is too high if you ask me. I told them I play 10 years and it's first time it happened to me so would be great if they could lift that fee for me first time - but they didn't care apparently.

    Anyway I did more or less what you predicted - my trust in them was the lowest it ever been and I decided to make a little boycott. I didn't quit but I lowered my activity level, instead of hunting as I always did, I traded my way out of that fee. I track my hunting returns very very carefully and I can tell the time I committed to gain that 1kped back trading - I would lose around 3kped (and get it back in MU but that's another story ). So at the end I lost nothing in PED - only some experience I would get hunting. MA gained 1kped due to my mistake but lost 3kped due to my break in hunting. That's the example of penny wise and pound foolish
    This has also been my own response when this game faces me with something too unreasonable. Note, I have withdrawn and will withdraw again. MA needs to get their collective head out of that dark place and get back to the honest business of purveying enjoyable play within this real cash social ambience - & ambience is all it is in context of MA's profit and loss.

    [Afterthought:] OK, I make a policy of not bringing thee design solutions I apply to my own MMO into discussions about Entropia, but this time I will make an exception. The primary function of vendors within my worlds is as non player characters within those worlds' ambience. Retail is a secondary function. Reflecting this functionality, and bowing to the principle of immersion, buyback of a vendored item is possible only if nobody (real or imaginary) has already bought the item. In a real cash game I can conceptually justify charging a buyback fee for items which have already been resold to another player, or scrapped by the NPC (ie watches to saleable gears), or fallen into the loot hole intentionally placed there via RNG to simulate purchase by a non-player "ambience character". This approach moves item buyback out of the arena of penalties and into the arena of paid premium play. The trouble with MA's approach here is not the existence of a fee, but its severity and universality. This is the same situation as with auction fees: the trouble with auction fees is partly that they are charged on nonsales (justifiable in theory but deadly to the economy in practice), and partly that the minimum bid is too high in a game that is brimming over with items of extremely low value. Both fees are sensible notions badly misapplied.
    Last edited by Lefty; 02-12-2019 at 21:15.
    .... just one man's opinion

  8. #8
    Stalker Sub-Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimon Frey View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I was selling loot to TT but repairing A106 was on my todo list also. I forgot to switch terminals and tted my amp. It was tt+1400 back then so I took their deal, 1000ped fee for my amp back. But I wouldn't call it "voluntary processing fee" nor fair. How can you explain 1000ped fee when withdrawal has only 100ped? It's a penalty and extra income source for MA. And it's not time consuming - when I sent my support case then got back to me after less than 20 minutes confirming they saw my transaction in logs. Restoring sold item is a matter of minutes, not hours or days so $100 is too high if you ask me. I told them I play 10 years and it's first time it happened to me so would be great if they could lift that fee for me first time - but they didn't care apparently.

    Anyway I did more or less what you predicted - my trust in them was the lowest it ever been and I decided to make a little boycott. I didn't quit but I lowered my activity level, instead of hunting as I always did, I traded my way out of that fee. I track my hunting returns very very carefully and I can tell the time I committed to gain that 1kped back trading - I would lose around 3kped (and get it back in MU but that's another story ). So at the end I lost nothing in PED - only some experience I would get hunting. MA gained 1kped due to my mistake but lost 3kped due to my break in hunting. That's the example of penny wise and pound foolish
    Sorry to hear about your mistake but glad it worked out for you, by making smarter choices, it takes something like this to make one re-think one's playstyle, playing smarter and so on.
    As far as I know withdrawal limit has always and still is 1000 PED or above.

    I can understand why they didn't make an exception with you, because you most likely would expect it to get it again next time or that if somehow you shared to others about being given an exception they'd get shit with that.

    A recent example I can think of is "All trades are final rule". MA made an exception a while time ago for a player who lost his improved or modified fap when he shared with a friend (I don't remember exactly all the details) but they intervened and made the player who took it for themselves return it.
    After that there was quite a bit of shitstorm complaining about that incident and that they only did it because it was an item of high value.

    About them restoring an accidental sale of an item to trade terminal. I have never used this system so can't comment on how fast they do it (although I did speculate, that it would be time consuming) either way, imagine if it was free. It would surely take much longer since there would be a lot more requests.

    MA needs to impose some sort of fee in order to prevent that. They already took some steps by giving an confirmation on auction when selling an item below market value, yet people still do mistakes on auction as well.

    Another idea they could make would be to add a way to "lock" valueable items so they cannot be traded under a certain amount of time or for however long you want until you unlock it. This would surely prevent accidental trades in most cases. But may pose a problem when renting items to others (now that I think about it)

    I think this fee is too black and white and too big (for first offense) hence my suggestions.

  9. #9
    Old Alpha moondog's Avatar
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    tbh - i have done this - we have all done this - your mistake - all trades are final - if you threw your $1000 dollar pc in the skip - the council wont even let you have it back - all waste becomes their property and there is a whole black industry for the resale of these sort of items. MA has a real cash economy - that would not work either in VR or RL if people didn't try to make money of each other. That's the way the world works and EU.

    Look at compet deeds and CLD - compet was a failed investment for those that invested in it, (bad investment) yet CLD and AUD prooved to be a good investment.

    It is after all............................

    Dynamic

    Incidentally I had a 460 ped hof the other day - went to Ark Underground for the smuggler event and lost the lot in an under an hour, am I bitter - no - I knew what I was doing when I did it, this universe is for fun, if you are not enjoying it - don't play - easy

    GL to all out there - in your ups and your downs

    Moondog
    If it killed you
    It isn't because you have the wrong armour,
    you just need a bigger gun

  10. #10
    Old Alpha moondog's Avatar
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    Another idea they could make would be to add a way to "lock" valueable items so they cannot be traded under a certain amount of time or for however long you want until you unlock it. This would surely prevent accidental trades in most cases. But may pose a problem when renting items to others (now that I think about it)

    ^^ This
    If it killed you
    It isn't because you have the wrong armour,
    you just need a bigger gun

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