Question: Punishment

InvisibleAndre

Old Alpha
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Posts
904
Location
Russia Krasnodar
Society
CCCP
Avatar Name
Invisible Andre Junior
Good afternoon :)

We all know that if you accidentally threw things in The TT terminal that, regardless of its value, you can return it for 1000 peds,let's just say you pay a fine for your mistake.
The question is what if MA can the official list of penalties for certain violations in the game do ?
 
Last edited:
The 1000 PED required to recover an item accidentally sold to the Trade Terminal is a voluntary processing fee, not a fine or penalty.
 
The 1000 PED required to recover an item accidentally sold to the Trade Terminal is a voluntary processing fee, not a fine or penalty.

voluntary collection is when you yourself are ready to give 1000 peds, and without it you just do not return things
 
The 1000 PED required to recover an item accidentally sold to the Trade Terminal is a voluntary processing fee, not a fine or penalty.
There are three main reasons that I can think of why you guys have this fee in place.
1. To limit the amount of requests to recover lost items because of too time consuming to check logs to confirm.
2. Having limit so high it fulfills option 1, and also as bonus earns you guys some extra bucks also.
3. An expensive lesson for players, making them pay more attention in the future.

Problem with this setup.
1. For items with low market value (below 1000 peds) it will not be worth it, so players are forced to lose their item for an honest mistake. That can lower player trust.
2. If player trust is lowered, the player retention will be affected negatively.
3. Some people even leave the game forever when they find out about this.

Possible solutions.
1. Implement an automatic system which automatically saves the last XX items TTed by the player. New option in trade terminal to recover an specific item that you traded to it, provided you pay 200% the TT value.
2. If option 1 is too time consuming to create. Consider lowering the fee for first time offenses, i.e 200 ped for first time, 500 ped for 2nd, 1000 ped for third and thereafter. Then the player only got themselves to blame for constantly making mistakes and it should create a more positive outcome rather than completely negative from the get-go.
 
Before asking for any new features, better ask yourself: who will pay for the work of implementing it. I doubt the suggested 200% will make it worthwhile the first 10 years.
 
Problem with this setup.
1. For items with low market value (below 1000 peds) it will not be worth it, so players are forced to lose their item for an honest mistake. That can lower player trust.
2. If player trust is lowered, the player retention will be affected negatively.
3. Some people even leave the game forever when they find out about this.

I was selling loot to TT but repairing A106 was on my todo list also. I forgot to switch terminals and tted my amp. It was tt+1400 back then so I took their deal, 1000ped fee for my amp back. But I wouldn't call it "voluntary processing fee" nor fair. How can you explain 1000ped fee when withdrawal has only 100ped? It's a penalty and extra income source for MA. And it's not time consuming - when I sent my support case then got back to me after less than 20 minutes confirming they saw my transaction in logs. Restoring sold item is a matter of minutes, not hours or days so $100 is too high if you ask me. I told them I play 10 years and it's first time it happened to me so would be great if they could lift that fee for me first time - but they didn't care apparently.

Anyway I did more or less what you predicted - my trust in them was the lowest it ever been and I decided to make a little boycott. I didn't quit but I lowered my activity level, instead of hunting as I always did, I traded my way out of that fee. I track my hunting returns very very carefully and I can tell the time I committed to gain that 1kped back trading - I would lose around 3kped (and get it back in MU but that's another story :) ). So at the end I lost nothing in PED - only some experience I would get hunting. MA gained 1kped due to my mistake but lost 3kped due to my break in hunting. That's the example of penny wise and pound foolish :laugh:
 
I was selling loot to TT but repairing A106 was on my todo list also. I forgot to switch terminals and tted my amp. It was tt+1400 back then so I took their deal, 1000ped fee for my amp back. But I wouldn't call it "voluntary processing fee" nor fair. How can you explain 1000ped fee when withdrawal has only 100ped? It's a penalty and extra income source for MA. And it's not time consuming - when I sent my support case then got back to me after less than 20 minutes confirming they saw my transaction in logs. Restoring sold item is a matter of minutes, not hours or days so $100 is too high if you ask me. I told them I play 10 years and it's first time it happened to me so would be great if they could lift that fee for me first time - but they didn't care apparently.

Anyway I did more or less what you predicted - my trust in them was the lowest it ever been and I decided to make a little boycott. I didn't quit but I lowered my activity level, instead of hunting as I always did, I traded my way out of that fee. I track my hunting returns very very carefully and I can tell the time I committed to gain that 1kped back trading - I would lose around 3kped (and get it back in MU but that's another story :) ). So at the end I lost nothing in PED - only some experience I would get hunting. MA gained 1kped due to my mistake but lost 3kped due to my break in hunting. That's the example of penny wise and pound foolish :laugh:
:wise: This has also been my own response when this game faces me with something too unreasonable. Note, I have withdrawn and will withdraw again. MA needs to get their collective head out of that dark place and get back to the honest business of purveying enjoyable play within this real cash social ambience - & ambience is all it is in context of MA's profit and loss.

[Afterthought:] OK, I make a policy of not bringing thee design solutions I apply to my own MMO into discussions about Entropia, but this time I will make an exception. The primary function of vendors within my worlds is as non player characters within those worlds' ambience. Retail is a secondary function. Reflecting this functionality, and bowing to the principle of immersion, buyback of a vendored item is possible only if nobody (real or imaginary) has already bought the item. In a real cash game I can conceptually justify charging a buyback fee for items which have already been resold to another player, or scrapped by the NPC (ie watches to saleable gears), or fallen into the loot hole intentionally placed there via RNG to simulate purchase by a non-player "ambience character". This approach moves item buyback out of the arena of penalties and into the arena of paid premium play. The trouble with MA's approach here is not the existence of a fee, but its severity and universality. This is the same situation as with auction fees: the trouble with auction fees is partly that they are charged on nonsales (justifiable in theory but deadly to the economy in practice), and partly that the minimum bid is too high in a game that is brimming over with items of extremely low value. Both fees are sensible notions badly misapplied.
 
Last edited:
I was selling loot to TT but repairing A106 was on my todo list also. I forgot to switch terminals and tted my amp. It was tt+1400 back then so I took their deal, 1000ped fee for my amp back. But I wouldn't call it "voluntary processing fee" nor fair. How can you explain 1000ped fee when withdrawal has only 100ped? It's a penalty and extra income source for MA. And it's not time consuming - when I sent my support case then got back to me after less than 20 minutes confirming they saw my transaction in logs. Restoring sold item is a matter of minutes, not hours or days so $100 is too high if you ask me. I told them I play 10 years and it's first time it happened to me so would be great if they could lift that fee for me first time - but they didn't care apparently.

Anyway I did more or less what you predicted - my trust in them was the lowest it ever been and I decided to make a little boycott. I didn't quit but I lowered my activity level, instead of hunting as I always did, I traded my way out of that fee. I track my hunting returns very very carefully and I can tell the time I committed to gain that 1kped back trading - I would lose around 3kped (and get it back in MU but that's another story :) ). So at the end I lost nothing in PED - only some experience I would get hunting. MA gained 1kped due to my mistake but lost 3kped due to my break in hunting. That's the example of penny wise and pound foolish :laugh:
Sorry to hear about your mistake but glad it worked out for you, by making smarter choices, it takes something like this to make one re-think one's playstyle, playing smarter and so on.
As far as I know withdrawal limit has always and still is 1000 PED or above.

I can understand why they didn't make an exception with you, because you most likely would expect it to get it again next time or that if somehow you shared to others about being given an exception they'd get shit with that.

A recent example I can think of is "All trades are final rule". MA made an exception a while time ago for a player who lost his improved or modified fap when he shared with a friend (I don't remember exactly all the details) but they intervened and made the player who took it for themselves return it.
After that there was quite a bit of shitstorm complaining about that incident and that they only did it because it was an item of high value.

About them restoring an accidental sale of an item to trade terminal. I have never used this system so can't comment on how fast they do it (although I did speculate, that it would be time consuming) either way, imagine if it was free. It would surely take much longer since there would be a lot more requests.

MA needs to impose some sort of fee in order to prevent that. They already took some steps by giving an confirmation on auction when selling an item below market value, yet people still do mistakes on auction as well.

Another idea they could make would be to add a way to "lock" valueable items so they cannot be traded under a certain amount of time or for however long you want until you unlock it. This would surely prevent accidental trades in most cases. But may pose a problem when renting items to others (now that I think about it) :)

I think this fee is too black and white and too big (for first offense) hence my suggestions.
 
tbh - i have done this - we have all done this - your mistake - all trades are final - if you threw your $1000 dollar pc in the skip - the council wont even let you have it back - all waste becomes their property and there is a whole black industry for the resale of these sort of items. MA has a real cash economy - that would not work either in VR or RL if people didn't try to make money of each other. That's the way the world works and EU.

Look at compet deeds and CLD - compet was a failed investment for those that invested in it, (bad investment) yet CLD and AUD prooved to be a good investment.

It is after all............................

Dynamic

Incidentally I had a 460 ped hof the other day - went to Ark Underground for the smuggler event and lost the lot in an under an hour, am I bitter - no - I knew what I was doing when I did it, this universe is for fun, if you are not enjoying it - don't play - easy

GL to all out there - in your ups and your downs

Moondog
 
Another idea they could make would be to add a way to "lock" valueable items so they cannot be traded under a certain amount of time or for however long you want until you unlock it. This would surely prevent accidental trades in most cases. But may pose a problem when renting items to others (now that I think about it) :)

^^ This
 
Another idea they could make would be to add a way to "lock" valueable items so they cannot be traded under a certain amount of time or for however long you want until you unlock it. This would surely prevent accidental trades in most cases. But may pose a problem when renting items to others (now that I think about it) :)

^^ This
^^ This solution has my vote. ^^
 
Back when I was a depositing noob, I bought a FF Dar9300 (for tt +6k)
After a year, I accidently TT'ed it after a long night.
I did get it back from MA after a supportcase or 3 explaining them how I would lose my faith if they didn't return it.
Back then, there was no option to get it back. They did give it back to me & warned me to never do that again.
Since then I haven't done it but a LOCK would be great
 
Locking is great idea. And they already have it for untradable items like harrier armor :) Simple right click on item and picking lock/unlock would do.

Something similar could be implemented on AH, like setting unit price of item with right click. Try to set auction below that threshold and AH terminal will complain and ask you to set unit price lower before selling :) That would fix or at least help fixing issues with selling 10CLDs at a price on one.
 
Sorry to hear about your mistake but glad it worked out for you, by making smarter choices, it takes something like this to make one re-think one's playstyle, playing smarter and so on.
As far as I know withdrawal limit has always and still is 1000 PED or above.

I was comparing restoring item fee (1000ped) with withdrawal fee (100ped). Minimum amount for withdrawal is 1000ped but fee is 1%, 100ped minimum. If they can set international wire transfer and check logs for frauds for $10 then they can also restore an item for $10 - no need to charge $100.
 
Let's turn this around.

Let's pretend that MA will give back any item you accidentally TT'd. Just submit a case. No fees. No worries.

How reckless would folks get at the TT? They wouldn't care. MA'll just give it back.

You really think MA has enough staff sitting around doing fuck all just waiting for us to ask them to receive item X from the digital trash bin? (Oh goodie! Stuff to do!)

They have a hard enough time trying to keep up with the amount of cases we, as a customer base, send in already and you want them to just let this happen?

Frankly, I was surprised they didn't implement the $1k ped fee from the beginning. The result of MA just "being nice" in this case is too obvious.

I've been here 11+ years and have yet to toss anything in the TT that I've regretted (Except maybe an imp fap back when I was so n00b, I didn't know what was so improved about it.)

Sub-Zero's 3 reasons for this fee are spot on. His only problem was going from there and explaining why they were bad.

Look at things from MA's side occasionally. They don't need us wasting their time just because we played while drunk and now don't want to pay for our mistakes. It's our mistake. We should take the penalty.
 
Let's turn this around.

Let's pretend that MA will give back any item you accidentally TT'd. Just submit a case. No fees. No worries.

How reckless would folks get at the TT? They wouldn't care. MA'll just give it back.

You really think MA has enough staff sitting around doing fuck all just waiting for us to ask them to receive item X from the digital trash bin? (Oh goodie! Stuff to do!)

They have a hard enough time trying to keep up with the amount of cases we, as a customer base, send in already and you want them to just let this happen?

Frankly, I was surprised they didn't implement the $1k ped fee from the beginning. The result of MA just "being nice" in this case is too obvious.

I've been here 11+ years and have yet to toss anything in the TT that I've regretted (Except maybe an imp fap back when I was so n00b, I didn't know what was so improved about it.)

Sub-Zero's 3 reasons for this fee are spot on. His only problem was going from there and explaining why they were bad.

Look at things from MA's side occasionally. They don't need us wasting their time just because we played while drunk and now don't want to pay for our mistakes. It's our mistake. We should take the penalty.

I'm saying it's an inappropriate penalty for so easy a misclick... hell, an penalty is an inappropriate way to solve the problem, but why not meet MA partway? ... This might be a cultural difference.
 
Another idea they could make would be to add a way to "lock" valueable items so they cannot be traded under a certain amount of time or for however long you want until you unlock it. This would surely prevent accidental trades in most cases. But may pose a problem when renting items to others (now that I think about it) :)

^^ This

the whole locking items so they cant be traded I mentioned this about 10 yr ago and was just talking about this the other day, but cant ever see it getting implemented as its a cash cow for MA, A simple right click and lock item to prevent trade or selling, then right click to unlock to allow trade and sell.

the whole renting items, due to it not being a game mechanic that's purely down to the trust of player to player so its not really in the equation.
 
Add bank to tt as third party type thing... any unlimited item would default to going in to nearest bank as loan instead of tt til you choose otherwise.
 
I'm saying it's an inappropriate penalty for so easy a misclick... hell, an penalty is an inappropriate way to solve the problem, but why not meet MA partway? ... This might be a cultural difference.

OK if you were MA, how would you handle cases where someone says they TT'd something by mistake?


(For the record, yes, the item lock is a nice idea, but obviously it doesn't match MA's goal for this Universe, because they've considered it and decided against it long ago.)
 
Just take care and you never will have to pay that extra recovery fee.

A LOCK feature would be nice anyways.
 
Locking is great idea. And they already have it for untradable items like harrier armor :) Simple right click on item and picking lock/unlock would do.

Something similar could be implemented on AH, like setting unit price of item with right click. Try to set auction below that threshold and AH terminal will complain and ask you to set unit price lower before selling :) That would fix or at least help fixing issues with selling 10CLDs at a price on one.

hell yeah . i talked to the doosh that got my 10 aud for 50 peds about 10 years ago. he told me he is making enough from ah mistakes to send his kids to college. MA is complicit with that durty reseller action by not doing anything nor helping anyone except the other durty resellers when they lose thiers the same way. i was on that guys side to until i found out hes just a durty reseller too. they are the ones with 100 auds for sale all day every day
 
There are three main reasons that I can think of why you guys have this fee in place.
1. To limit the amount of requests to recover lost items because of too time consuming to check logs to confirm.
2. Having limit so high it fulfills option 1, and also as bonus earns you guys some extra bucks also.
3. An expensive lesson for players, making them pay more attention in the future.

Problem with this setup.
1. For items with low market value (below 1000 peds) it will not be worth it, so players are forced to lose their item for an honest mistake. That can lower player trust.
2. If player trust is lowered, the player retention will be affected negatively.
3. Some people even leave the game forever when they find out about this.

Possible solutions.
1. Implement an automatic system which automatically saves the last XX items TTed by the player. New option in trade terminal to recover an specific item that you traded to it, provided you pay 200% the TT value.
2. If option 1 is too time consuming to create. Consider lowering the fee for first time offenses, i.e 200 ped for first time, 500 ped for 2nd, 1000 ped for third and thereafter. Then the player only got themselves to blame for constantly making mistakes and it should create a more positive outcome rather than completely negative from the get-go.

I liked your statement, the main thing that MA now took this information into account
 
You guys think about the fact that you pay 1000 PED for any predmet which you mistakenly threw in the TT terminal but you don't treat support if the price is below 1000 PED and it's all clear but now consider the parallel to another point - if you threw an object, or as I had earlier, I threw out the resources in the pvp area and I just had the game after I came again I couldn't find them because all the marks I lost, and what you think I did ?? Yes, everything just opened a new case and asked me to return the resources :) well, within a week, these resources are returned to me for free in the inventory. So the point is that I think to find predmet which you threw in the TT terminal or resources that you threw away and can't find the will spend as much time in search of them but in one case you have to pay 1000 PED and in no. That is why I asked the question about what could MA have to make a list of mistakes that players often admit to make some t opredelennye punishment or warning, that's all. I can also tell you about other moments in the game that happened to me or friends with me avatars and here are some more examples-once I poured the skill and sold the man from hand to hand, the first time everything was fine and the second time he cheated me and just did not give the money and saying thank you just Yes, it is clear that I like myself to blame but the answer was such from MA that each transaction is over when you confirm the trade window and we can not do anything about it, Yes it was PED 500 total but now option number 2 - when you cheat and don't give a thing let's say in 10K then the other avatar can block and raises the question why in one case they still and the other not ??? is it all about the size of the loss ??? I think if someone has cheated then he needs to block that all out. There were times when people just trusted each other and then one day he takes almost all of his things and does not give and what to do in such situations ?? MA always reacts differently, and it is not correct as should be some rules we all must abide by.

P.S - A fee of 1000 PED is fine with me but I want a list of specific rules and a list of violations for which it is appointed is receiving considerable punishment
 
The reason they added the 1000 ped fee is people "accidentily" ttd their super high TT value items and asked support to get them back (at 0 TT).
The old school faps and armors (ul vivos for example).
 
I'm saying it's an inappropriate penalty for so easy a misclick... hell, an penalty is an inappropriate way to solve the problem, but why not meet MA partway? ... This might be a cultural difference.

You all must have forgotten how the "punishment" has come to be. Originally there was no procedure to get back any tt'ed stuff, supports was denying all such requests. You put it to tt, you confirmed the sale, it's gone, all fair and square. And it totally makes sense because otherwise it can be abuses as free loan. Lack ped for auction? TT your stuff and if you fail to win your bid, just ask MA for your stuff back.

Then 10 years ago xXxSquallxXx tt'es his 300k ped worth OA105 and it creates enough waves with community for MA to concede (I don't understand why big amounts make rules bend; years later the history repeats itself with the drunk sale of 120k ped worth of deeds). And in their generosity they not only allow Squall to get his item back but instate a permanent solution and even make it retroactive for everyone who had similar support cases in the past. But as it often happens with good deeds, over years the indulgence has started to be seen as punishment.

It's essentially a retroactive insurance. You still lost your item through your own fault, but you have an option to get it back. If you think the insurance fee is too big, don't do it, just like you don't insure your pencil IRL.
 
You all must have forgotten how the "punishment" has come to be. Originally there was no procedure to get back any tt'ed stuff, supports was denying all such requests. You put it to tt, you confirmed the sale, it's gone, all fair and square. And it totally makes sense because otherwise it can be abuses as free loan. Lack ped for auction? TT your stuff and if you fail to win your bid, just ask MA for your stuff back.

Then 10 years ago xXxSquallxXx tt'es his 300k ped worth OA105 and it creates enough waves with community for MA to concede (I don't understand why big amounts make rules bend; years later the history repeats itself with the drunk sale of 120k ped worth of deeds). And in their generosity they not only allow Squall to get his item back but instate a permanent solution and even make it retroactive for everyone who had similar support cases in the past. But as it often happens with good deeds, over years the indulgence has started to be seen as punishment.

It's essentially a retroactive insurance. You still lost your item through your own fault, but you have an option to get it back. If you think the insurance fee is too big, don't do it, just like you don't insure your pencil IRL.

Actually.. in the past u could get ur ttd items back by just sending an support msg.. then they stopped giving them back and then changed rules coz one of their best pal ttd something valuable
 
Abuse is one thing, but the dismissal of mistakes made by the muscle memory this game creates in the first place is nothing other than cynical. Hence the term "punishment" is appropriate, and a 1000 ped fee for 2 minutes of support work is certainly no "generosity".

Kindly see my link above for a proposed solution (a "scrap yard" npc for tt-ing any unlimited & unstackable items).
 
Yeah, get back your item for free..
And let install a multi check for the TT and Auction...

Are you sure you want to sell this for this price ? Yes/No
Are you sure that you are sure ? Yes/No
Are you drunk ? Yes/No/Maybe

Seriously guys, stop asking to be infantilized more and more..
If you make mistakes, take responsibility for consequences.

MA has no obligation to repair our mistakes, but they do it and that's good enough.
 
P.S - A fee of 1000 PED is fine with me but I want a list of specific rules and a list of violations for which it is appointed is receiving considerable punishment

So the only purpose for this thread was to ask if you could pay your way out of a ban. The answer should be obvious, a very definitive and unequivocal NO.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh but I can't deal with bullshit anymore.

PS: I see people got dragged into the "1k ped fee" thing but that's not what OP wanted to ask at all. And by the way this thread makes you look guilty as heck. :thumbup:
 
Back
Top