Good Work MA

Sub-Zero said:

Problem with lock target is you need to actually hover over the mob to "lock it". Once you get within your weapons range a mob's arrow becomes visible, that's when F works (and then you don't need to hover over mob just press F).

What I want is that you don't need to hover over mob and just press F (no matter your weapon range) basically all mobs have those arrows shown, so can be targeted with F, and your avatar will walk towards mob and start shooting at max range of your weapon..
I don't want to have to point at what mob to attack. Before I could press C (select self) then R next target and it would select the closest target, then I'd just press auto usetool mouse 3. All done.

With current system if I want to hunt somewhat like before, I need to use a long range tagger 161 meters on every mob so the F key works most of the time. Which is a pain.

Click to expand...

I too think this is a bug and should be corrected asap because it's very annoying and slows hunting down for most ranged playing styles.

Evey said:

I too think this is a bug and should be corrected asap because it's very annoying and slows hunting down for most ranged playing styles.

Click to expand...

I hope it's a bug, because they did say they increased all weapons range targeting to 180 meters or something, but that doesn't appear to be the case at least not with F key.

I feel like I’m the only person who would look for a mob, shoot it, look for another, shoot it too

I find the hover over mob with cursor and press F thing a really simple way to play.

F works on mobs well out with range for me . I’m using an 85m ranged weapon and I’ve target many mobs far beyond that. My ava just runs towards them till in range. Edit- (Ah I see, your saying you want to to do that without having to hover cursor on the mob- carry on don’t mind me! )

CozMoDan said:

No dumb butt you basically said I couldn't read and you had to explain again, really. Save it for someone else. You can have the last word it will be the same crap.

Click to expand...

First of all... I didn't say you couldn't read, I said you read something wrong... Huge difference... That is not an insult... That's helping by fixing the misunderstanding.

Secondly, who's the rude guy here? You're calling me a dumb butt...

Sorry for long post but it was the shortest I could think of to explain what I want to say.

They, MA , could have introduced a new action: select closest target in line of sight and start shoot and the whole community surely would not be mad about it.
But they decided that even though you have f.x. a Atrox biting from behind and 100 meters in front of you a Molisk that next important target for your avatar will be the Molisk and not the Atrox who is damaging you.

They even take the decision which target you want to shoot at out of your hand as I noticed many times that when I look trough the scope at my next target and press the new start engage key the aim switches to a target slightly to the left or right of my desired target but maybe 5 meters closer - bad behaviour in my view.

When you have several mobs swarming you I could while killing one dragging out the health Bars of the others to arrange them in the killing order I would like to proceed them. I even could f.x. put them on the same place on the screen, stacking them so when one mob is nearly finished I just had to double click on the HP stack to finish one mobs, loot it, select next mob in line and click auto shoot again. Or as others stated when doing very small mobs you could take a loot pill, use auto shoot and select next target when mob is killed. This was extremely comfortable and efficient.

Same when mining, you could drag out the claim marker from the next claim while drilling out one and point whit the mouse cursor onto the bar of the next claim to let the avatar after finishing drilling out this claim running to the next and drill that out too.

On the other hand, when I have trained my over years solidified actions to the new possibilities one I certainly like is that auto shoot continues when you switch tool meaning that you can f.x when you shoot with you main weapon and get a hit, click on FAP, click on Arsonic, click on main weapon key and the avatar will do the sequence, as long as you have the queue action set in options(they should add that to their rtfm in the first place)


But the thing which is making me the most problem is this swing around zooming feature which hurts your mind every time you exit, enter a sleipnir, go into 3rd person view, use terminals etc.

So my suggestion is:

Make next target selecting at least also mobs which are attacking you from behind which would be common sense to be next target and not a mob 100 meters away which is calm and friendly at the moment.

Bring back HP Bars for healers, miners and hunters who hunted, mined or healed using them for the last 5 or more years it is crucial to have them back.

Make this animated zooming/swinging around a option for all the people who like it and do not get headache from it.

This is my opinion after using VU16 for some days

Sub-Zero said:

Problem with lock target is you need to actually hover over the mob to "lock it". Once you get within your weapons range a mob's arrow becomes visible, that's when F works (and then you don't need to hover over mob just press F).

What I want is that you don't need to hover over mob and just press F (no matter your weapon range) basically all mobs have those arrows shown, so can be targeted with F, and your avatar will walk towards mob and start shooting at max range of your weapon..
I don't want to have to point at what mob to attack. Before I could press C (select self) then R next target and it would select the closest target, then I'd just press auto usetool mouse 3. All done.

With current system if I want to hunt somewhat like before, I need to use a long range tagger 161 meters on every mob so the F key works most of the time. Which is a pain.

Click to expand...

Sub you do not have to hover over the target to use lock target. It works the same as the old select next target. I have not used the F key much but I think it works the same. I am going to play when I get out of here and check the F key out but for sure you do not need to hover for lock target. I fairly certain the 180 meters is the max distance now for using lock target. You do not need to be in you weapons range to use lock target, that is when you get the shaking when it is out of range.

Ok I am in the game and neither the F key nor the lock target has to have a hover over to hunt, however you must have a weapon equipped for the F key to work other wise it will do nothing which makes sense as it has more than one function, hunting or interaction with something that you want to interact with. I believe that is in the release notes. When you hover over almost anything else that is not a mod the hint pops up and say press F to interact.

The bad thing is for the nay sayers, with all of this discussion about bad and good and based on past experiences MA is not going to change much, if anything. I hope we don't lose a bunch of the good players because of it.

Many of the most common complaints are being addressed, from a longer, adjustable zoom-out range to targeting mobs not in your field of view.

Remember, this is a new basis for Camera Control and Interaction - and it can be developed with additional features and improvements. We had updates and changes to the old system - things like auto-use tool and next/previous target were not always a thing - but it was also wicked clunky and kludgey. We were all used to it, well adapted to it, familiar with it's idiosyncrasies, etc., but that's not the same thing as saying it was good.

Given time, when we become well adapted to the new system, and it gets better with updates and improvements, the old system will be like the old game engine. Some will remain nostalgic, or just unimpressed, but progress demands change this new system is the kind of change that looks forward, not back. Just as Loot 2.0 solved the problem of long-term economic sustainability (top players were able to continuously profit vs TT at the expense of MA and the rest of the player-base), this update is an improvement to the foundation of the game that indicates an effort at building the long-term viability of EU.

As with every big change, the actual number of quitters will be far lower than forum outrage would seem to indicate, but part of the role of the forum is to be a place to vent frustration, express outrage, and publicly argue for our points - all within view of MA. I hope that the MA team are able to see the issues behind the outrage without being blinded by it.

Peace, Miles

Sub-Zero said:

Problem with lock target is you need to actually hover over the mob to "lock it". Once you get within your weapons range a mob's arrow becomes visible, that's when F works (and then you don't need to hover over mob just press F).

What I want is that you don't need to hover over mob and just press F (no matter your weapon range) basically all mobs have those arrows shown, so can be targeted with F, and your avatar will walk towards mob and start shooting at max range of your weapon..
I don't want to have to point at what mob to attack. Before I could press C (select self) then R next target and it would select the closest target, then I'd just press auto usetool mouse 3. All done.

With current system if I want to hunt somewhat like before, I need to use a long range tagger 161 meters on every mob so the F key works most of the time. Which is a pain.

Click to expand...

To the red parts.

You dont need to hover over a mob - press TAB = locks next target (farily much the same as old lock target, except that mob has to be in visible range

So if you press TAB (select) followed by F (activates autotool/shoot), its nearly the same as old system.

Dont even need the C to select self.

Haven´t tried in 3rd person with mobs attacking from behind, still need to test if mobs visible in 3rd person (behind you) can be locked with TAB.

Miles said:

Many of the most common complaints are being addressed, from a longer, adjustable zoom-out range to targeting mobs not in your field of view.

Remember, this is a new basis for Camera Control and Interaction - and it can be developed with additional features and improvements. We had updates and changes to the old system - things like auto-use tool and next/previous target were not always a thing - but it was also wicked clunky and kludgey. We were all used to it, well adapted to it, familiar with it's idiosyncrasies, etc., but that's not the same thing as saying it was good.

Given time, when we become well adapted to the new system, and it gets better with updates and improvements, the old system will be like the old game engine. Some will remain nostalgic, or just unimpressed, but progress demands change this new system is the kind of change that looks forward, not back. Just as Loot 2.0 solved the problem of long-term economic sustainability (top players were able to continuously profit vs TT at the expense of MA and the rest of the player-base), this update is an improvement to the foundation of the game that indicates an effort at building the long-term viability of EU.

As with every big change, the actual number of quitters will be far lower than forum outrage would seem to indicate, but part of the role of the forum is to be a place to vent frustration, express outrage, and publicly argue for our points - all within view of MA. I hope that the MA team are able to see the issues behind the outrage without being blinded by it.

Peace, Miles

Click to expand...

Good post. I only disagree with one thing, I like in view mob only. I won't go into a big explanation but it fits the way I hunt better than the old. Also one other thing, you can break your attack and target another mob easier in this Ver. it aways had to get one more shot in the old Ver. and would run toward the mob until you jerk the cross hairs half way around the screen and by then you had forgot the mob you want to go after LOL.

GoNi said:

To the red parts.

You dont need to hover over a mob - press TAB = locks next target (farily much the same as old lock target, except that mob has to be in visible range

So if you press TAB (select) followed by F (activates autotool/shoot), its nearly the same as old system.

Dont even need the C to select self.

Haven´t tried in 3rd person with mobs attacking from behind, still need to test if mobs visible in 3rd person (behind you) can be locked with TAB.

Click to expand...

You do not have to hit the tab key to use the F key it lock on by itself. The way to tell if you can lock target is there will be a down arrow visible above the target, when there are many targets the down arrow indicates which target will be next if you would use the lock target again. This will change as you move, like if you have to move to the selected target because it is out of range at first.

GoNi said:

To the red parts.

You dont need to hover over a mob - press TAB = locks next target (farily much the same as old lock target, except that mob has to be in visible range

So if you press TAB (select) followed by F (activates autotool/shoot), its nearly the same as old system.

Dont even need the C to select self.

Haven´t tried in 3rd person with mobs attacking from behind, still need to test if mobs visible in 3rd person (behind you) can be locked with TAB.

Click to expand...

Maybe for you. But for me when I press TAB while I have mobs in visible range it does nothing, unless the mob has a arrow on them (weapon range reached). Same with F.
Have you tried it with a weapon with 74m range? Or are you using a tagger with 150m+ range?

Sub-Zero said:

Maybe for you. But for me when I press TAB while I have mobs in visible range it does nothing, unless the mob has a arrow on them (weapon range reached). Same with F.
Have you tried it with a weapon with 74m range? Or are you using a tagger with 150m+ range?

Click to expand...

You need to have your weapon equipped !

It works for me with 24m range handgun, can lock target mobs over 100m away just by pressing TAB once.

Edit: Checked another thing quickly!

It does not need to have that arrow on the mob to select them with TAB key, it perfectly switched through all mobs in visible range, from close (~25m) to far away over 100m.
Each mob that got selected by pressing TAB several times was automatically locked, and I could have started shooting it with F
This test also with 24m handgun equipped!

GoNi said:

You need to have your weapon equipped !

It works for me with 24m range handgun, can lock target mobs over 100m away just by pressing TAB once.

Edit: Checked another thing quickly!

It does not need to have that arrow on the mob to select them with TAB key, it perfectly switched through all mobs in visible range, from close (~25m) to far away over 100m.
Each mob that got selected by pressing TAB several times was automatically locked, and I could have started shooting it with F
This test also with 24m handgun equipped!

Click to expand...

Okay, so maybe my weapon or my avatar is bugged. Because with my 72.6m range rifle, I cannot do what you are describing. And yes I do have my weapon equipped obviously.

Now do I need to stream it so you believe me?

Sub-Zero said:

Okay, so maybe my weapon or my avatar is bugged. Because with my 72.6m range rifle, I cannot do what you are describing. And yes I do have my weapon equipped obviously.

Now do I need to stream it so you believe me?

Click to expand...

Just did the Sabakuma wave to complete my daily I hunting.

What I have noticed:

When mobs drop dead directly in front of you it happens that you look to ground, then TAB does not work. No key to look up or straight forward, so I need mouse --- very anyoing!
Solution for me = walking backwards while shooting, so mob does not drop directly at your feets and avatar still looks forward instead to ground.

To much unneeded camera movements on this small mobs caused me headache after roughly 30 min hunting, and I had to stop. Haven´t had that issue at Feffos. Nor with old camera system.
Why in 3rd person OTS my avatar cant keep looking forward while shooting ?

It felt somehow like beeing in rollercoaster and thats no good for human brains.

One more reason why I dont like this VU.

Bugged lock target for me. Showing how. Notice the keyboard map, I have it set to mouse3 in order for the clicks to show.
As ya can see, it only works when I hover over mob, or get within weapon range (arrow key shows up) or when using longer ranged weapon like howler s.4 then arrow key shows up always.

Sub-Zero said:

Bugged lock target for me. Showing how. Notice the keyboard map, I have it set to mouse3 in order for the clicks to show.

As ya can see, it only works when I hover over mob, or get within weapon range (arrow key shows up) or when using longer ranged weapon like howler s.4 then arrow key shows up always.

Click to expand...

exactly my problem . cant seem to use next target/target lock unless you are mousing on it. this needs to be integrated somehow with the weapon icon so at least a target is selected when you click or double click it. i fired my arso nowhere so many times now. and you got to wait so long for it to recharge. that one is testing the AF out of my patience.

CozMoDan said:

Exactly how I did hunt and I think this is as good if not better IMO. I, also, respect the other 50% that don't. I would be willing to bet that I am by far the oldest player and hate change and my first gut feeling was like the other 50% until I read, tried and read some more and played a lot. It does take a bit of time but I like it now and it reminds of the pre 2010 playing which I loved after MA put in the auto-use action. Almost lost a finger I clicked so much LOL.

The bad news that, based on the past, MA is not going to change much and if you don't believe that look how long we have been shuddering over mobs and that is finally fixed.

Click to expand...

Well then you are in the 50% without headaches. Grtz for that. But do not forget there are other 50% of people that suffer headaches with this vu. They could hunt 10 hours in line with old version, with more possibilities, now they only are hunting for 1 or 2 hours followed on line.

The problem is there man, only need to be solved.

Sub-Zero said:

Bugged lock target for me. Showing how. Notice the keyboard map, I have it set to mouse3 in order for the clicks to show.

As ya can see, it only works when I hover over mob, or get within weapon range (arrow key shows up) or when using longer ranged weapon like howler s.4 then arrow key shows up always.

Click to expand...

Indeed looks weired, in that situation I could switch through all the Evis just by pressing my TAB key.
Seems something is broken for you.

I dont even need to see that arrows above the mobs and it works.

GoNi said:

Indeed looks weired, in that situation I could switch through all the Evis just by pressing my TAB key.
Seems something is broken for you.

I dont even need to see that arrows above the mobs and it works.

Click to expand...

Yeah. What weapon were you using btw? So I can rule out weather it's my weapon per say or my avatar that's bugged.

Sub-Zero said:

Yeah. What weapon were you using btw? So I can rule out weather it's my weapon per say or my avatar that's bugged.

Click to expand...

Its a Korss350 UL I did test with.

Sub-Zero said:

Bugged lock target for me. Showing how. Notice the keyboard map, I have it set to mouse3 in order for the clicks to show.

As ya can see, it only works when I hover over mob, or get within weapon range (arrow key shows up) or when using longer ranged weapon like howler s.4 then arrow key shows up always.

Click to expand...

Sub I watched the Vid and I did NOT see a lock target on your key board at all. the tab key was blank. Look it up in the action menu and set back on the tab key.

I remember a key action may help a lot of peeps including myself and my dumb butt friend above. It was called "look up" and moved your head up from looking down. I had it set on my key pad on the lower right the Del key and it is not in action library any more. Maybe MA could add that one back in, maybe.

Just a PS to the guy that said tracker can not log glbs and HOFs because they change the wording is NOT true. I finally got a global and got SS just as always. Not sure what he is talking about but I was on cryrene and got a global and did not show up and I asked about and was told that at least 3-5 peeps need to have tracker on to be work correctly. I did get two on cryene and one showed the other did not.

CozMoDan said:

Sub you do not have to hover over the target to use lock target. It works the same as the old select next target. I have not used the F key much but I think it works the same. I am going to play when I get out of here and check the F key out but for sure you do not need to hover for lock target. I fairly certain the 180 meters is the max distance now for using lock target. You do not need to be in you weapons range to use lock target, that is when you get the shaking when it is out of range.

Click to expand...

Yes you do have to hover over a target to make it work....

Can you please make me a video to show me you don't have to hover? Because for me, if my crosshair is even 1cm next to a target, neither interact nor lock target will work, and my guy stands still...

I will make you a video to show you that it doesn't work for me, one of the next days. So you can see what the issue is that is annoying me.

Edit: apparently sub-zero already did a video, so he was faster than me. He has similar problem like me, but for him it even still works better than me, because I saw him actually be able to do the lock target a few times. For me it would not even lock a single one, unless I specifically have my mouse over the mob. Sometimes even a mob right in front of me doesn't even lock when I lock at it, and I have to manually shoot it.

So, if I read it right, then some people don't have this issue that you can see in Sub's video???
How's that possible that a new VU seems to work differently for some people than for others?
Is there maybe a bug on a certain option that we should tick on or off?

Rampsy said:

Yes you do have to hover over a target to make it work....

Can you please make me a video to show me you don't have to hover? Because for me, if my crosshair is even 1cm next to a target, neither interact nor lock target will work, and my guy stands still...

I will make you a video to show you that it doesn't work for me, one of the next days. So you can see what the issue is that is annoying me.

Edit: apparently sub-zero already did a video, so he was faster than me. He has similar problem like me, but for him it even still works better than me, because I saw him actually be able to do the lock target a few times. For me it would not even lock a single one, unless I specifically have my mouse over the mob. Sometimes even a mob right in front of me doesn't even lock when I lock at it, and I have to manually shoot it.

So, if I read it right, then some people don't have this issue that you can see in Sub's video???
How's that possible that a new VU seems to work differently for some people than for others?
Is there maybe a bug on a certain option that we should tick on or off?

Click to expand...

I noticed that sub was running, I also did a test and if you move off the target after the f key the selection is lost. you can not run and gun like the old days. Stand still push the F key and see if it works. I can not see any reason why only a few would have this problem. Also I waited to start shooting after I hit the F key and then moved off the target and lost focus again. Hope this helps

GoNi said:

Its a Korss350 UL I did test with.

Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for the information, could you perhaps test it with an (L) weapon that is easily available, with around same range or better yet a rifle with 50-75 meters range? This way if it doesn't work with those, it must mean it's item based, and not all items work flawlessly.
You need to be 100+ meters away from mob and not hover over them to test it though. I have personally tested it and it doesn't work for me.

CozMoDan said:

Sub I watched the Vid and I did NOT see a lock target on your key board at all. the tab key was blank. Look it up in the action menu and set back on the tab key.

Click to expand...

Okay, so by moving my key to mouse3 in order to show when I clicked it kinda backfired on me.
If you pay close attention to keyboard map, where the mouse actions are you can see the lock target icon, there you can see every "click" I made. Do note that I've tried it on tab as well, it made no difference.

Rampsy said:

Edit: apparently sub-zero already did a video, so he was faster than me. He has similar problem like me, but for him it even still works better than me, because I saw him actually be able to do the lock target a few times. For me it would not even lock a single one, unless I specifically have my mouse over the mob. Sometimes even a mob right in front of me doesn't even lock when I lock at it, and I have to manually shoot it.

So, if I read it right, then some people don't have this issue that you can see in Sub's video???
How's that possible that a new VU seems to work differently for some people than for others?
Is there maybe a bug on a certain option that we should tick on or off?

Click to expand...

The times I managed to lock a few times I actually hovered very fast on the mobs and quickly pressed lock target key (mouse3 for me). Or it was because I reached my weapons range, and mob's arrow UI showed up (then it can be targeted) if I get within 73 meters (around my weapons range) it works for me, most of the time.

CozMoDan said:

I noticed that sub was running, I also did a test and if you move off the target after the f key the selection is lost. you can not run and gun like the old days. Stand still push the F key and see if it works. I can not see any reason why only a few would have this problem. Also I waited to start shooting after I hit the F key and then moved off the target and lost focus again. Hope this helps

Click to expand...

It makes no difference for me if I'm standing still or running. Still doesn't work as you are describing. I can only target stuff with lock target when I am within my weapons max range, or use F (when I'm within my weapons max range). Unless I actually hover over the mob, then it's unlimited.

I made a small video to show you what I meant:

http://tondeleir.org/entropia/video/interact.mp4

I had interact on F, I had lock target on tab.
I pushed both buttons multiple times, it didn't work at all, even though the mob is only like a cm away from my crosshair, definately within the interaction meters, as well as in view. Nothing happened.

At the end, I moved my mouse exactly over the mob, and clicked F once again, just to prove that I was in the correct distance to interact. As you can see, if I have my mouse exactly on top of the mob, it works, it perfectly interacts. But if my mouse is not exactly on top of the mob, it doesn't work, not even when my crosshair is just 1 cm away from the target.



Edit: I added a second video, for 2 reasons:

1. I saw that on first video, you couldn't see me clicking the F key on the end, so I filmed again, clearly clicking F key, just in case someone would not believe me that my F key is actually interact.
2. I put my crosshair even closer to the mob, like 2mm away from it, to show how extreme it is, my mouse really has to be exactly on the mob, even a pixel away from it already makes it not work.

http://tondeleir.org/entropia/video/interact2.mp4

Rampsy said:

I made a small video to show you what I meant:

http://tondeleir.org/entropia/video/interact.mp4

I had interact on F, I had lock target on tab.
I pushed both buttons multiple times, it didn't work at all, even though the mob is only like a cm away from my crosshair, definately within the interaction meters, as well as in view. Nothing happened.

At the end, I moved my mouse exactly over the mob, and clicked F once again, just to prove that I was in the correct distance to interact. As you can see, if I have my mouse exactly on top of the mob, it works, it perfectly interacts. But if my mouse is not exactly on top of the mob, it doesn't work, not even when my crosshair is just 1 cm away from the target.



Edit: I added a second video, for 2 reasons:

1. I saw that on first video, you couldn't see me clicking the F key on the end, so I filmed again, clearly clicking F key, just in case someone would not believe me that my F key is actually interact.
2. I put my crosshair even closer to the mob, like 2mm away from it, to show how extreme it is, my mouse really has to be exactly on the mob, even a pixel away from it already makes it not work.

http://tondeleir.org/entropia/video/interact2.mp4

Click to expand...

Not sure what the vid is I can not open as it as if I want to save it. says MP4 not sure what that is.
As I did not see the Vid you did have a weapon in your hand right ? Sorry that is the only reason my will not work either if I am empty handed.

CozMoDan said:

Not sure what the vid is I can not open as it as if I want to save it. says MP4 not sure what that is.
As I did not see the Vid you did have a weapon in your hand right ? Sorry that is the only reason my will not work either if I am empty handed.

Click to expand...

MP4 is a video format, it's a video where I filmed with smartphone, smartphones nowadays all work with mp4.
what browser do you use? If you have google chrome, I think they have an integrated videoplayer for mp4.


about the weapon, yes I had weapon equiped, at the end of the video I even hovered over the mob & pressed interact to prove it works when it's exactly on top of the mob.

Rampsy said:

MP4 is a video format, it's a video where I filmed with smartphone, smartphones nowadays all work with mp4.
what browser do you use? If you have google chrome, I think they have an integrated videoplayer for mp4.


about the weapon, yes I had weapon equiped, at the end of the video I even hovered over the mob & pressed interact to prove it works when it's exactly on top of the mob.

Click to expand...

WIN IE 11, just never got used to chrome and with all my saved links (since IE came out) I am not about to try, even though it may be better its too late for me.