vu16 (messi release?) wrt. hp bar removal

girtsn · Feb 21, 2019

so the vu 16 - what seem to be the key idea's so far behind it?

besides UI improvements (https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Camera-amp-Control-System-Preview-and-Guides) imho motivation best summarized by

the MindArk team has felt that the existing camera and control system results in confusion for many new participants, along with frustration and unnecessary limitations for many current and veteran participants

and then these:

features (for example, Next Target and switching between camera modes) have issues with consistency and undesired side effects

Removed the ability to drag out status bars. This feature caused many unintended issues and problems, and is no longer needed.

Lock Target does not target avatars

imho this "undesired side effects" and "unintended issues" translates quite directly to preventing hunting / healing by using hp bars + fixing related issues in pvp, and seeing that messi & co is quite active for the cause seems to make "along with frustration and unnecessary limitations for many current and veteran participants" part clearer

don't get me wrong, the bots including runners for evade skills that work on this basis are annoying - but since this / any hunting post loot 2.0 does not seem to be a profit generator, it would be economically unfeasible and they would realize this with time?
also there are surely some improvements with the UI and it likely fixes pvp, but does that justify removing usable functionality like hp bars?

some questions

isn't this just looking for an "external enemy" to explain why the players are not happy and why the retention rate is crap?
is basing game development on advise of egomaniacs like messi the reasonable choice (sure he is a great player but also a great douche)
how is semi-afk hunting/healing worse than crafting all night afk while watching netflix?
was UI improvements the best way to spend resources?
weren't those semi-afk hunters/healers generating more turnover (and with loot 2.0 likely losing peds) which will now stop?
aren't other things (just to name a few) causing way more "frustration and unnecessary limitations for many current and veteran participants"?
** loot system flaws that allow 30% of the fen items to be looted by 3 avatars
** tier system being complete clusterfuck with pricing still of 2008 and critical components not available?
** ten event armor sets still not completed 5 years later when fen event has ended
** inability to sell bulk skills for frustrated players who spill their poison in the community
** the tax system on LAs being the clusterfuck it is

messi's 2nd AMA question: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?308798-Messi91-Q2-Botting

messi91 said:
Players may not use 3rd party Add-ons.
...
YOU DON'T NEED BARS to perform any hunting or healing jobs.You need them just because you are used with it.
I can easily fap 6 people hunting the same mob without drag their hp and none of them will die because I miss a heal on them.That will require my full focus and game mechanic understanding and how the mob position and attack certain people on different area around me.This job will prevent me scratching my balls while doing so or use auto clicker on a hp bar or perhaps any other whatever 3rd party software or any other shit I don't know , just saying.

geanina said:
indeed ... the new system require full focus and full attention, understanding of game mechanics and a big amount of adaptability. I never hunt with mobs hp bar dragged. I think this update is a good one because prevent players from doing things in entropia while semi afk or watching movies in the background.

messi91 said:
If I become one I will probably become the best healer ingame.
...
I know hit mechanics on all mobs ingame, mob collision etc, no hp bars drag ofc.

messi91 said:
You are too busy to check my attitude and you don't focus on what I'm saying.This is how I check what's your main focus in this game.Improving is not one.
...
You simply don't need hp bars.Yeah you got used with it but its not needed, make the difference.
I suspect they removed this feature because many bots and 3rd party software was based on click to move and drag bars and do stuff.Now you know that 99% of the actions are done manually by a fucking human person.
Healing service might be harder for some but at least now people that can do it don't use auto clicker and 3rd party software and based on that fact you can step up and charge more (guess what this is a competitive field too)
.

messi91 said:
The message wasn't intended to you or to help you.I just responded to a question.

Zayka · Feb 21, 2019

Wifefap stop working? I can understand your frustration...)

girtsn · Feb 21, 2019

I will use the unfinished TEN chronicle for the time being or do teamhunting so not really, understanding was never your strong suite.
Not happy with the removal of functionality which would have been better spent to fix actual issues imho.

Zayka said:
Wifefap stop working? I can understand your frustration...)

livius · Feb 21, 2019

Yea for sine might be shity but it improves pvp , LG , and maybe more further pvp events. It’s enough with using aim bots to win LG for years. I think now we will see pure skill , if they won’t find any other cheats to work with this VU...and some of the fappers should put their ass at work not asking 80 ped per hour for an autoclick while they are watching Netflix. Some of them quited team healing cuz was too difficult , they couldn’t focus on movie anymore. Wtf? Anyhow Smigls stop complaining please ... your hof will come anyway as ever after every cry you made here for your 0,01 tt loss .
And even if it’s a Messi VU that means that the developers have in the end understand how this game should work.

crazyqpp · Feb 21, 2019

Zayka said:
Wifefap stop working? I can understand your frustration...)

If that was the problem all he needed to do is create a team instead of a post at forums.

Zayka · Feb 21, 2019

crazyqpp said:
If that was the problem all he needed to do is create a team instead of a post at forums.

In team he lost his place in top of hunters and Messi will be №1 - its unacceptable for his ego

crazyqpp · Feb 21, 2019

livius said:
Yea for sine might be shity but it improves pvp , LG , and maybe more further pvp events. It’s enough with using aim bots to win LG for years. I think now we will see pure skill , if they won’t find any other cheats to work with this VU...and some of the fappers should put their ass at work not asking 80 ped per hour for an autoclick while they are watching Netflix. Some of them quited team healing cuz was too difficult , they couldn’t focus on movie anymore. Wtf? Anyhow Smigls stop complaining please ... your hof will come anyway as ever after every cry you made here for your 0,01 tt loss .
And even if it’s a Messi VU that means that the developers have in the end understand how this game should work.

I quit team healing because i was spending more on getting my eyesight to stop dropping drastically than i was making from team jobs. Look on the bright side. Now you can make money healing teams. Good luck

Also. Players like messi dont generate revenue for the game. If the developers are designing game for the likes of him than we all are doomed. Dont get me wrong. Messi is one of the few who actually play to WIN. The revenue is mostly generated from those who like to smoke-scroll web-watch tv or even work during their game time.
Brb i put clothes in washer
brb gonna check on kids
brb going to get beer
brb smoke
brb food
brb phone

that was very common as all they had to do was press "next target" and it bought them 3-5 minutes of free time while medic kept them alive.
Last 2 days.

I will wait for the patch.
I cant figure out auto shoot.
this makes my head spin.

I dont think this is in anyway good for game.

Remember most of the players in this game come to relax. Entropia does not have ACTION MATERIAL it does not neeed to require your FULL FOCUS.

Thats just what i noticed.

crazyqpp · Feb 21, 2019

livius said:
Yea for sine might be shity but it improves pvp , LG , and maybe more further pvp events. It’s enough with using aim bots to win LG for years. I think now we will see pure skill , if they won’t find any other cheats to work with this VU...and some of the fappers should put their ass at work not asking 80 ped per hour for an autoclick while they are watching Netflix. Some of them quited team healing cuz was too difficult , they couldn’t focus on movie anymore. Wtf? Anyhow Smigls stop complaining please ... your hof will come anyway as ever after every cry you made here for your 0,01 tt loss .
And even if it’s a Messi VU that means that the developers have in the end understand how this game should work.

I forgot to add. It took me only few minutes to figure out how follow works and how to chat while healing. So things didnt really change that much for medics. We still dont need to put our asses to work becoz we dont charge 80ped per hour. Also i dont think any medic use auto clicker. Entropia already have everything that works perfect.

Haruto Rat · Feb 21, 2019

The whole theory that this has something to do with 'bots' IMHO does not hold water.

Making everyone point-and-click instead of pressing a key actually gives bots an advantage because bots are better than humans at pointing-and-clicking and have been for quite some time now. You could of course say they're going to make everyone point-and-click and then investigate those who're suspiciously good at it (honeypot tactic), but I'd rather consider cockup before conspiracy.

It rather seems they're trying to make EU like that newfangled console game Henrik's 14 yo brother plays*. Some people on the chat are even theorizing they might be preparing a console release (not sure how, I don't know squat about consoles).

* figuratively, I don't know anything about Henrik's family either

Detritus · Feb 21, 2019

Like Messi or hate him, at least he doesn't spend all his time whining about his returns in the forums.

livius · Feb 21, 2019

crazyqpp said:
I quit team healing because i was spending more on getting my eyesight to stop dropping drastically than i was making from team jobs. Look on the bright side. Now you can make money healing teams. Good luck

Also. Players like messi dont generate revenue for the game. If the developers are designing game for the likes of him than we all are doomed. Dont get me wrong. Messi is one of the few who actually play to WIN. The revenue is mostly generated from those who like to smoke-scroll web-watch tv or even work during their game time.
Brb i put clothes in washer
brb gonna check on kids
brb going to get beer
brb smoke
brb food
brb phone

that was very common as all they had to do was press "next target" and it bought them 3-5 minutes of free time while medic kept them alive.
Last 2 days.

I will wait for the patch.
I cant figure out auto shoot.
this makes my head spin.

I dont think this is in anyway good for game.

Remember most of the players in this game come to relax. Entropia does not have ACTION MATERIAL it does not neeed to require your FULL FOCUS.

Thats just what i noticed.

I think most of the winners were those that were really using bots to hunt 24/7 imagine grinding mobs like Caperons non stop , the amount of MU you make comparing with one that is hunting 4 h a day is huge . Chance to get rare loot or items are always bigger , skills gained and finished missions without any input effort. I can assure you that those were not loosing ped at all . Cuz if they did they would stop . How can a human compete with a boot? See Mayhem, maybe I barely have time to complete 3 times maximal the 15 h , what chance I have against one that is hunting while sleeping and doing finishing the event 50 times ? (Of course people have now hunters to play for them, thing that should be also punished in my opinion, game should be stick to unique avatars unique players if not it’s the same thing as the booting only that here you use different human boots)
The “brb” guys can still hunt with medic and call “brb” while hunting mulcibers if somebody was calling brb hunting 25 seconds kill mobs they would stop shooting or they shout into the air if they are away from keyboard so basically generating 0 decay .
The new setup I can say yes is kinda confusing, but you can figure out in 30 min maximal , I did.
And you still have almost all that you need . Personally I miss only the auto use on mining . But is not a problem.

To respond also to smigls at a question about 24/7 h crafting . The fact is that the new system has nothing to do with crafters, EP crafters or MU crafters. The fact is that you don’t need to interesct with other players or to do different actions while crafting . Was from the beginning and it always be a afk profession . If Somebody needs to do 10k clicks for his end item to craft I bet he is not idiot to stay in front of pc for 5 h to see how the clicks are rolling.

Aloisius · Feb 21, 2019

Haruto Rat said:
The whole theory that this has something to do with 'bots' IMHO does not hold water.

Making everyone point-and-click instead of pressing a key actually gives bots an advantage because bots are better than humans at pointing-and-clicking and have been for quite some time now. You could of course say they're going to make everyone point-and-click and then investigate those who're suspiciously good at it (honeypot tactic), but I'd rather consider cockup before conspiracy.

It rather seems they're trying to make EU like that newfangled console game Henrik's 14 yo brother plays*. Some people on the chat are even theorizing they might be preparing a console release (not sure how, I don't know squat about consoles).

* figuratively, I don't know anything about Henrik's family either

yuk - i dislike that theory - console games suck - even with VR.

RickEngland · Feb 21, 2019

Detritus said:
Like Messi or hate him, at least he doesn't spend all his time whining about his returns in the forums.

It's a capitalist game and he's a heavy hunter so at some point MA will crack him. Someone has to pay for MA bills, so no-one is immune when those bills need paying.

However that's besides the point, I'm quite upset about the removal of HP 'drag-off-mob' bars. To the point I've not even logged in to try it, becasue I don't want to pay for stress and frustration that I'm currently reading about.

EU is entertainment and costly entertainment at that. I'm sure the intention of this new camera system was to improve our play ten-fold "make it much better". So the question is why isn't that happening? Players should be singing from the hills how amazing it is....right?

What the ratio of love/hate?..... 1/50

Rick

girtsn · Feb 21, 2019

its funny that you would think I will get a hof for my efforts here

livius said:
Anyhow Smigls stop complaining please ... your hof will come anyway as ever after every cry you made here for your 0,01 tt loss .

sawachika · Feb 21, 2019

Completely neutral on this, but...

After thinking about it, I think the console theory might hold some water.

If you think about it logically, MA might be trying to dumb down the controls so that it is possible to diversify into the console platforms like Xbox and PS4 in the future? Or maybe even the VR genre?

It could possibly open Entropia Universe up to many more potential players, which in turn generates more revenue for MA.

However, with the EU that we have now, it might be wishful thinking that the console peeps would even bother to come and try out the game.

forgo · Feb 21, 2019

I am disappointed in MA for not listening to the player base, but this kinda sounds like I was off base.

They do seem to listen... to a select few, who seem to have a very strong and biased desire to limit any and all competition, and then wonder why the rest of the world isn't happy.

I suppose this is a problem when new players grow up thinking of certain players as Gods who know more than everyone, and then are promoted to running the product.

Highly flawed thinking. And clearly does not represent the players as a whole...not even close.

Interesting comments and interesting result for certain.

Thanks.

Evey · Feb 21, 2019

forgo said:
I am disappointed in MA for not listening to the player base, but this kinda sounds like I was off base.

They do seem to listen... to a select few, who seem to have a very strong and biased desire to limit any and all competition, and then wonder why the rest of the world isn't happy.

I suppose this is a problem when new players grow up thinking of certain players as Gods who know more than everyone, and then are promoted to running the product.

Highly flawed thinking. And clearly does not represent the players as a whole...not even close.

Interesting comments and interesting result for certain.

Thanks.

Side note - I have a female friend on the internet who sounds Romanian. But when objectifying them as a sex object, being called a gypsy is not really paramount, especially considering the other names I use. So I would not consider that offensive...but I do know there is a lot worse in the world to be called. Like... Geriatric old fart.

What if Dennis | MindArk is Messi? Notice the double letters? Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!!

San · Feb 21, 2019

Evey said:
What if Dennis | MindArk is Messi? Notice the double letters? Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!!

Now that's a honey pot if I ever saw one. Whom will it catch

GoNi · Feb 21, 2019

Zayka said:
Wifefap stop working? I can understand your frustration...)

LOL that is still working, even better than befor.

The Abomb · Feb 21, 2019

forgo said:
They do seem to listen... to a select few, who seem to have a very strong and biased desire to limit any and all competition, and then wonder why the rest of the world isn't happy.

"Some" people say this is a competitive game yet this is the least competitive game I have ever played. This game is about politics. If you are good at politics and manipulation you will do well in Entropia but it couldn't be farther away from a competitive game. "Some" people will chime in and say I am wrong but those people are the ones that think this game is competitive when it isn't. This game is big business, you hold a large stake in it and you grease a few hands and then you get fed. There is hardly any competition in this game when it is manipulated always in their favor. It saddens me that people are afraid of real competition.

PS- Great thread and surely will be very interesting to read for awhile.

Mathilda · Feb 21, 2019

big xd too short

BigPimping · Feb 21, 2019

The Abomb said:
"Some" people say this is a competitive game yet this is the least competitive game I have ever played. This game is about politics. If you are good at politics and manipulation you will do well in Entropia but it couldn't be farther away from a competitive game. "Some" people will chime in and say I am wrong but those people are the ones that think this game is competitive when it isn't. This game is big business, you hold a large stake in it and you grease a few hands and then you get fed. There is hardly any competition in this game when it is manipulated always in their favor. It saddens me that people are afraid of real competition.

PS- Great thread and surely will be very interesting to read for awhile.

lmao no

Cartoon Spoon · Feb 21, 2019

sawachika said:
Completely neutral on this, but...

After thinking about it, I think the console theory might hold some water.

If you think about it logically, MA might be trying to dumb down the controls so that it is possible to diversify into the console platforms like Xbox and PS4 in the future? Or maybe even the VR genre?

It could possibly open Entropia Universe up to many more potential players, which in turn generates more revenue for MA.

However, with the EU that we have now, it might be wishful thinking that the console peeps would even bother to come and try out the game.

Haven't they been dumbing down everything in-game recently? I will use the Armatrix items as my case in point, but I think there is more...
Anyone can buy an Armatrix gun and amp and be pretty equipped in game without much research. I don't like them as I consider them too expensive all round, but I think they ensure the uninformed don't lose out.

It appeals more to casual players, but it eradicates some of the mystery and wisdom. The build up over time, and the acquisition of some knowledge prior, that attracted me to the game.

forgo · Feb 21, 2019

Evey said:
What if Dennis | MindArk is Messi? Notice the double letters? Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!!

I would like to note that there are 7 letters between and including N and S on the keyboard , AND mindark has 7 letters!

The patterns are ......irrefutable!

Angel O2 Mercer · Feb 21, 2019

Woah, this forum is like 99.8% cancer.

What the hell is the conspiracy now? I lost track.

Mathilda · Feb 21, 2019

The Abomb said:
"Some" people say this is a competitive game yet this is the least competitive game I have ever played. This game is about politics. If you are good at politics and manipulation you will do well in Entropia but it couldn't be farther away from a competitive game. "Some" people will chime in and say I am wrong but those people are the ones that think this game is competitive when it isn't. This game is big business, you hold a large stake in it and you grease a few hands and then you get fed. There is hardly any competition in this game when it is manipulated always in their favor. It saddens me that people are afraid of real competition.

PS- Great thread and surely will be very interesting to read for awhile.

idk man find mobs with nice MU and put the loot on auc, dont have to interact with a single person if you dont want to

Alainax · Feb 21, 2019

Angel O2 Mercer said:
Woah, this forum is like 99.8% cancer.

What the hell is the conspiracy now? I lost track.

More drama than Netflix

I've not watched TV in weeks :laugh:

ZippO · Feb 21, 2019

Deleted member 57599 · Feb 21, 2019

Hi

girtsn said:
so the vu 16 - what seem to be the key idea's so far behind it?

besides UI improvements (https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Camera-amp-Control-System-Preview-and-Guides) imho motivation best summarized by

and then these:

imho this "undesired side effects" and "unintended issues" translates quite directly to preventing hunting / healing by using hp bars + fixing related issues in pvp, and seeing that messi & co is quite active for the cause seems to make "along with frustration and unnecessary limitations for many current and veteran participants" part clearer

don't get me wrong, the bots including runners for evade skills that work on this basis are annoying - but since this / any hunting post loot 2.0 does not seem to be a profit generator, it would be economically unfeasible and they would realize this with time?
also there are surely some improvements with the UI and it likely fixes pvp, but does that justify removing usable functionality like hp bars?

some questions

isn't this just looking for an "external enemy" to explain why the players are not happy and why the retention rate is crap?

is basing game development on advise of egomaniacs like messi the reasonable choice (sure he is a great player but also a great douche)

how is semi-afk hunting/healing worse than crafting all night afk while watching netflix?

was UI improvements the best way to spend resources?

weren't those semi-afk hunters/healers generating more turnover (and with loot 2.0 likely losing peds) which will now stop?

aren't other things (just to name a few) causing way more "frustration and unnecessary limitations for many current and veteran participants"?

** loot system flaws that allow 30% of the fen items to be looted by 3 avatars

** tier system being complete clusterfuck with pricing still of 2008 and critical components not available?

** ten event armor sets still not completed 5 years later when fen event has ended

** inability to sell bulk skills for frustrated players who spill their poison in the community

** the tax system on LAs being the clusterfuck it is

messi's 2nd AMA question: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?308798-Messi91-Q2-Botting

You always crying about SOMETHING. You did 1 year of bumps about these problems then you got ATH then you mysteriously left that thread alone BUT Leave Messi alone. he is busy sweating and killing punties for 10-15 years . Messi needs to take his pills :girl:

girtsn · Feb 22, 2019

If you compare the issues mentioned in my op they overlap with ones mentioned in https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...sparency-and-addressing-other-critical-issues
Stopping bumping it had 0 to do with my loot just that MA had shown 0 interest in even discussing any of them same for the community guess my views were and are @ irrelevant minority. It seemed then and it still seems now some veterans opinions are more equal than others. House of gamers ftw.

treeloggerbigbi said:
You always crying about SOMETHING. You did 1 year of bumps about these problems then you got ATH then you mysteriously left that thread alone BUT Leave Messi alone. he is busy sweating and killing punties for 10-15 years . Messi needs to take his pills

vu16 (messi release?) wrt. hp bar removal

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