Adapt or Die !?

Orion

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Eleria 'Orion' Starwind
The changes of VU 16 accomodate some players, which welcome them.
But as i interprete the playbase's reaction, the reception of the changes to hunting by VU16 seem to be unwelcomed by a vast majority of players.

An Analogy
e3bbe50f-d227-40b1-8d07-1349a1126685-620x372_1.jpeg


The house is on fire.
The foundation is brittle.
The facade is down-and-out.
The financing is a hero with feet of clay.
The HVAR is leaking.
You fall through broken floors.
Telephone always needs to re-register, when you come home.
The penthouse resident's desires (who pay the highest rents) are neglected.

9c032026-eaf5-4221-ba7f-1956a6f07713-620x372_1.jpeg


In this situation MA sends the maintenance for Quality of Life Improvements to replace panorama windows with narrow peepholes.
The "autouse-tool+select next target" elevator gets replaced with a labyrinthine staircase.
All pushbuttons get removed, randomly reassigned, functions turned upside down, turning on the light turns off the iron now, and even the grandmas and gramps in the house get told they now have to re-learn everything from scratch.


I heard i have to Adapt or Die!
Now WE have to adapt to the new system, or die?

Seemingly MindArk misunderstands the relation of service provider to customer.
Not the customer has to adapt to the offered service.
The offered service has to adapt to the customer's preferences.

Because i have looked up and down the road now and found there are lots of modern houses with customer-friendly and helpful concierges, intuitive floor plans and a working home automation.
They have lots of space for rent and their monthly rent is a fraction of my current rent.

So far i paid several hundred dollars rent per month, and i was okay with it. Without too much complaining about the rotten infrastructure.
When reading the price in this analogy, keep in mind we are talking about a leisure game here, which has to compete with 2019 state of the art competitiors, who focus on intuitive and user friendly handling for 9-15$ per month and Quality of Life Improvement being #1 on their priority list.
Dont get me wrong here, i dont ask for a lower rent. But instead i expect a minimum respect for customer preferences.

I havent moved yet, because i have so wonderful neighbors here (you know who you are).
But my neighbors only can cover a limited mismatch.
 
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players got super lazy, years ago we didn't even had auto use tool/move to target some guys with mod merc were breaking monthly the mouse
 
BS.

It is just that, as usual and in any context or situation, the unhappy minority is very noisy, lousy and vocal !

I am French, I know what I am talking about, cf. Gilets Jaunes (Yellow vest movement)


:wise:

It's one of the best VU since Cry Engine introduction. Remember how many shouted, cried and whined at this time ?

Go make a search !
 
players got super lazy, years ago we didn't even had auto use tool/move to target some guys with mod merc were breaking monthly the mouse

?? and what ? what's the point ?
remove all cars and let's get horse back ? ...
 
indeed the interface today is a huge improvement against what we used to have ages ago like Alina is saying

for most careful enough with following the instructions, took like 1 hour to readjust the controls more or less like they used to be

also there are a lot of improvements in vu16 both ui, usability and stuff like usable condition lowered a lot

the vu16 mostly pissed ppl of due to removing some functionalities like hp bar + camera difficulties which surely will be fixed over time
 
Things tend to change, and for the better!
You have to adapt or just simply move on... this game needs to change in order to work.

Its just how life works! Nothing stays the same!
 
I heard i have to Adapt or Die!
Now WE have to adapt to the new system, or die?

Seemingly MindArk misunderstands the relation of service provider to customer.
Not the customer has to adapt to the offered service.
The offered service has to adapt to the customer's need.


I think the point here is, quite bluntly, as Dennis put it:


Hi,
I'm reading every single post regarding the feedback of this release. I can already tell you that we are making some adjustments to increase the Zoom distance as well as more customization for the placement of the Camera. Much of this is now possible due to the new foundation and it will be much easier to implement.

One thing I have to say is that it is very hard to support every play style and "genre". We will do our best to try to cover your needs yet keep the direction we want with Entropia Universe.

Thank you again for the feedback!

Basically this reflects MA's position on the Customers Need - and translates to they don't give 2 shits for the community or its input. This has been repeatedly shown by the popularity of so many changes made through consecutive VU's over the years. Land / Estates / Space / Loot 2.0 to name some of the favourites.

For a game that had a playerbase of 1 million registered accounts (pre VU10) and cannot now achieve 10k active players a month shows the direction we want with Entropia Universe.


Sad but true
 
Two things in this VU: changes and dysfonctions. And it is not so easy to sort this out...
 
The changes of VU 16 accomodate some players, which welcome them.

Hello O,

I believe that while some changes that came with VU 16 are nice I am pretty sure the VU did not accommodate anyone, we all had to adapt. The big difference here is that some are having a more hard time to adapt to change while others have an easier time or, in the case of good and very good gamers, they have no problem at all. I am not having an easy time to adapt to this but I try, I do my best to find the right combination of tools given to me to make it work because I value the bigger picture more, the actual game, I really want to play it, to evolve with it and I personally embrace this change because I know it's for the better. I understand the reasons behind it and I know there is a lot to work on the new system still. I embraced loot 2.0 too, even it affected us financially, others more than us, but, that too, was for the better as this one is too.
A complete rejection of the change does not make sense to me and I don't understand most of the resistance here.

I thought there couldn't be more drama than last year with the removal of such an insignificant aspect of this game, an old security system, the Gold Card, but MA slapped me and showed me I am naive, that the drama can be 100 times of higher amplitude than that. I know this one is a big change, it is to us too, but we will surely adapt and focus on the bigger picture.

Yes, in the history of the humanity, there were cases where people died refusing to adapt. It is a choice, to refuse to move forward after all; to refuse to let the landlord repair the stairs just because you liked the old layout more even if it endangers the main building does not really make sense. In this case too, for the game to move on it has to try to constantly adapt to the new standards, even if the current playerbase, does not agree entirely. There is resistance but still the game has to move on and get bigger and better.

I would personally like for the gamers to be as active as they were during FEN or MM, I would like the game to have 1000 frequent active players like smilgs and messi, not those two and the rest playing for daily missions, a couple of times a week....

We really need fresh blood, let the game change and change with it. How can this game survive if only it stays PE?
 
BS.

It is just that, as usual and in any context or situation, the unhappy minority is very noisy, lousy and vocal !


This!

People here seem to think that the insane cancer that is PCF represents the majority of the player base. Protip: it doesn't.


I found the new controls a welcome change, took about 10 mins to learn and become effective with them. Most of my friends in-game have the same feelings. However you aren't going to get a bunch of posts saying "cool update MA", because as I learned the hard way, that just paints a target on your back and everyone comes at you with their pitchforks "stfu you little prick, i need muh 15 year old controls back". :drool:
 
Most of us have adapted to the many and various changes over the years - we are still here and still playing this awesome game :yay:

This particular change has some great features, but it's not yet really in its final form. MA are paying attention and will refine based on the "voluminous" feedback from the user base (go userbase!!:laugh:)

Until then, I am playing less, not as some kind of luddite reaction to change, but simply:
1. The current implementation makes me sick after an hour or so (all the micro zooms)
2. Mostly importantly, the "feel" - my User Experience of my beloved Entropia has been degraded. The game is somehow less fluid, requiring me to spend more time controlling my ava which detracts from the experience of the actual game-play.

I'm confident MA will get this tuned and resolved, but until then, my "adapt" is to play less.

My 2 pecs
 
There are 2 main facets to this VU.
1. The fundamental changes to the game (camera system) which updates the system and will be an essential part of future development.
Sure it has some bugs, but already we can see MA listening and trying to correct them, hopefully they will continue to do so until the visual glitches are smoothed out.

2. The changes to keyboard bindings.
This one I am not so sure about, they say it is to encourage new player retention, yet new or old we could in the past and can now (for the most part) select our own preferred layouts.
If they really think this helps new players why is keyboard layout, like avatar creation not simply a part of the initial set up, with in game option as now to revise later. Then everyone gets exactly what they are familiar with from day one.
For those of us in game, they could simply have greeted us on VU day with a keyboard update screen, we could have chosen their layout, our old layout or go to create new, where our existing layout could be shown, with a list of new but as yet unassigned keys so that we could drag and drop the to where we wanted them.

However what is done, is done.. we need to try their way for a few days at least, then adapt our key bindings to what works for us. As I bet that the vast majority of us have subtly different layouts anyway.

I cant say I am happy with the pain of making my fingers overcome their muscle memory, there have been one or two moments where I felt like a two year old trying to type with a glove puppet on each hand. But hey I am sure I will eventually learn to take them off. :)
There are things I love about this VU and things I hate, some may get changed by MA, some I may have to adapt to, but if the new system with the necessary revisions/bug fixes etc give us a smoother game and make it fit for purpose for the next 10 years then I guess a few weeks/months down the line we will look back (just like vu 10)and say.. God it was awful, but yeh the game is much better now

What I would say to MA though is TY for the additional communications, TY for listening to our concerns..keep up the good work. You are starting to show us that you care for the future of EU (not other products and offshoots), that you are prepared to listen and work with your customers, but it will be an uphill struggle to overcome the legacy of years of customer neglect. So keep those hiking boots on and keep climbing that hill.

What I say to players is.. there is no such thing as perfect in any game as we all have different expectations, and also we get set in our ways (and yeh I am in the older age group), yes we need to whine and bitch, that's life..but lets keep it in proportion. MA is finally trying to work with us rather than ignore us.. but too much negativity and they may just climb back into the pit of doom and stop engaging with us. If that happens as before, then tbh I am worried this game would be truly doomed
 
I don't subscribe to the "we have to" adapt often spouted. It's as simple as this, you either like it or you don't, you either find changes enjoyable or you don't. We don't "have to" accept anything at all.

i've not actually tried it out yet, as waiting for MA to fix what they want to fix first. However when I do try it out, it's either going to be enjoyable and be something I want to embrace.....or I'm going to hate it, find it frustrating and not want to play it.

That is the risk MA take when they fundamentally change a complete system, it will always be 'entertainment' therefore it is down to customer choice if they want to be involved with it or not. Either way it doesn't matter, the world still goes round, life goes on.

Rick
 
This!

People here seem to think that the insane cancer that is PCF represents the majority of the player base. Protip: it doesn't.


I found the new controls a welcome change, took about 10 mins to learn and become effective with them. Most of my friends in-game have the same feelings. However you aren't going to get a bunch of posts saying "cool update MA", because as I learned the hard way, that just paints a target on your back and everyone comes at you with their pitchforks "stfu you little prick, i need muh 15 year old controls back". :drool:

this would mean that basically every company on the planet that is doing surveys is entirely useless because it doesnt reflect the opinions of all inhabitants of planet earth.
 
I still love the game for the game it is, but it should be very clear that me still playing has very little to do with the DEV team, and much more to do with the concept they work with.

Ive been playing MMOS since play by mail ...literally. I sold my first virtual item in 1993 on ebay. I have seen games come and go, and played most of them.

I have seen firsthand, not one but several companies completely fold due to lack of customer service and care. I've seem some fold due to their own vision that completely went against the customer.

I will not fanboi the team for their already created content, nor will I give praise where it is not due.

This change was not needed, and could have been done much better, and could have made a lot more sense to the customer. MA needs to stop giving people a reason to leave, and fix the things that will get them to stay.

I am not sure many of you realize just how easy it is to add a new camera in a cryEngine. The only thing left is choosing the field of view...which they choose to be ultra small.

The rest of what they added was personal preference, that was forced upon us, the customer.

If the goal is VR or consoles or mobile, then do like most companies and come up with a separate mapping for a controller keyboard or touch.


I too get wary when I am told to adapt in a game, it usually ends up bad for the company. The company needs to adapt to the customer, or die.
 
It's stupid to always say "you have to adapt".

No, you don't have to adapt to every things and every changes that are suggested to you.

You have to think, think again, and tell if it's good or not.
If it's not, then don't adapt ! :wise:

You don't have to adapt to a chair whith stupid design that will break your back.
The chair design should adapt to human needs and desire.
When there is alot of differents needs, then we create an adaptable chair, and the chair will adapt to needs, not you.

For a video game, the adaptable chair is "more options".
 
this would mean that basically every company on the planet that is doing surveys is entirely useless because it doesnt reflect the opinions of all inhabitants of planet earth.

Well this is an illogical statement, but I'll tackle it anyway.

In many cases, yes, surveys can be completely useless. You are making a vast generalization here, because "doing a survey" could be something as simple as grabbing randoms on the street corner and asking them what their favorite flavor of coffee is, or it could be an elaborate study devised by a billion dollar professional survey company with appropriate cross-section analysis and accurately weighted samples.

Almost all game forums are generally toxic and PCF is no exception. The handful of people who are constantly complaining here are not representative of the game population as a whole. The point, however, was not even whether or not PCF as a whole represents the playerbase, but the fact that gamers tend to be at their loudest and most vocal when they are complaining about something. There are, in fact, plenty of people (most of the people I've actually spoken to) who are totally fine with the changes (or even enjoy them) but they aren't here shouting about it. So if you just come and read the forums you'd think the entire playerbase hates this VU, but you'd be wrong.
 
Thank you for your input. you point it out:
1. (camera system)

2. The changes to keyboard bindings.

(1) could have been integrated without touching (2).

and then it would have been a great VU people would have cheered for.


my "adapt" is to play less.
Sadly, i adapted the same way, playing Fallout, Hellion and Subnautica now and still come to bed earlier than before VU16 (wife is happy about this!).

I forecast: In 4 weeks, after the players more or less have adapted the new system, the turnover ( = MA revenue) still will be significantly lower than before VU16.
I really hope you can prove me wrong at the end of March.
 
Well this is an illogical statement, but I'll tackle it anyway.

In many cases, yes, surveys can be completely useless. You are making a vast generalization here, because "doing a survey" could be something as simple as grabbing randoms on the street corner and asking them what their favorite flavor of coffee is, or it could be an elaborate study devised by a billion dollar professional survey company with appropriate cross-section analysis and accurately weighted samples.

Almost all game forums are generally toxic and PCF is no exception. The handful of people who are constantly complaining here are not representative of the game population as a whole. The point, however, was not even whether or not PCF as a whole represents the playerbase, but the fact that gamers tend to be at their loudest and most vocal when they are complaining about something. There are, in fact, plenty of people (most of the people I've actually spoken to) who are totally fine with the changes (or even enjoy them) but they aren't here shouting about it. So if you just come and read the forums you'd think the entire playerbase hates this VU, but you'd be wrong.

Well to be fair when 'all' of the successful corporate companies in the world carry out product research they must be doing something right trying to fit their product to their customer. Entropia has been in the gaming market for 15 years with a game that runs 24/7 to a global market and can barely pick up 3000 active players (that even accounts for much cheaper access to hardware to play it). In fact based on tracker MA were a good 800 hunting globals down in 24 hours after implementation of the current VU. So fanboy or not that had a huge impact on ability of players to adapt to the update, the numbers don't lie.

The other thing is if many players avoid the forum, then what people say isn't influencing them is it (so it's pretty irrelevant). Most players are quite constructive to be fair in forumn, and when people do raise issues they have spent personal time highlighting why they're not happy and have justifible reasons to state why they're upset.

Although MA might not always like what they read, they actually welcome it. How else would they know what is wrong with their game, if feedback was limited. They would just see a fall in activity, and be scratching their heads why that happened.

No one starts off hating the game. Much like real life predudices, we base our opinions and attitudes on our real life experiences then make a judgement of what we find acceptable or not. The game management are reasponsible for the attitudes of players in most instances. Let's not forget one MA bad coding error can add up to a $50 loss per hour, MA need to take accountability for thier misjudgement.

Rick
 
Well this is an illogical statement, but I'll tackle it anyway.

In many cases, yes, surveys can be completely useless. You are making a vast generalization here, because "doing a survey" could be something as simple as grabbing randoms on the street corner and asking them what their favorite flavor of coffee is, or it could be an elaborate study devised by a billion dollar professional survey company with appropriate cross-section analysis and accurately weighted samples.

Almost all game forums are generally toxic and PCF is no exception. The handful of people who are constantly complaining here are not representative of the game population as a whole. The point, however, was not even whether or not PCF as a whole represents the playerbase, but the fact that gamers tend to be at their loudest and most vocal when they are complaining about something. There are, in fact, plenty of people (most of the people I've actually spoken to) who are totally fine with the changes (or even enjoy them) but they aren't here shouting about it. So if you just come and read the forums you'd think the entire playerbase hates this VU, but you'd be wrong.

so you claim that the people who state that they speak for a "vast majority" of the game are wrong and you say that you speak for a "vast majority" of the players as you assume that most, if not all players, who are not on pcf but ingame tend to think as you? thats quite a generalization if ive ever seen one :D

who are you to proclaim you know what the majority of players think? have you spoken to them? to all of em or nearly all of em? or are you just making an assumption?
 
I forecast: In 4 weeks, after the players more or less have adapted the new system, the turnover ( = MA revenue) still will be significantly lower than before VU16.
I really hope you can prove me wrong at the end of March.
No one can prove you wrong because (1) There's no major event and (2) No one thinks these changes by themselves help in any way with the revenue. In fact we can all agree that right after VU, for a couple of weeks, activity will most likely go down because of it.
But there are also some other factors that may tilt the balance in the other way, meaning it can increase activity, if, there will be some event before Easter Mayhem or of advertising is done properly, to increase the revenue over the same period of the year from the past years.


this would mean that basically every company on the planet that is doing surveys is entirely useless because it doesnt reflect the opinions of all inhabitants of planet earth.
Who are you? :D
Good surveys are done on the right profiled potential customer because if you ask a john doe who is most likley never going to buy what you sell, you've don a piss poor job doing the survey, because in some contexts, John Doe's opinion means fuck all if you don't know who he is. Who are you? :D
 
so you claim that the people who state that they speak for a "vast majority" of the game are wrong and you say that you speak for a "vast majority" of the players as you assume that most, if not all players, who are not on pcf but ingame tend to think as you? thats quite a generalization if ive ever seen one :D

who are you to proclaim you know what the majority of players think? have you spoken to them? to all of em or nearly all of em? or are you just making an assumption?


No, you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that I speak for the vast majority, I simply said that PCF is not an accurate representation of the vast majority. I also never said most players think like I do, I said most of my friends do - it makes sense to become friends with like-minded individuals, does it not?

Really living up to your username.
 
No, you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that I speak for the vast majority, I simply said that PCF is not an accurate representation of the vast majority. I also never said most players think like I do, I said most of my friends do - it makes sense to become friends with like-minded individuals, does it not?

Really living up to your username.

you said: "The handful of people who are constantly complaining here are not representative of the game population as a whole. "

that means you think you know what the majority thinks. cos thats what you have written there. how can you know that the "handful of people" dont represent the majority? maybe only your friends think what you think and everyone else thinks otherwise. can you disprove that? how can you prove what represents the whole population of EU?

what if the polls here made actually are an accurate reflection of the thoughts of all people playing EU? you cant know that. so maybe stop basing your arguments on that. both sides should stop that.
 
Who are you? :D
Good surveys are done on the right profiled potential customer because if you ask a john doe who is most likley never going to buy what you sell, you've don a piss poor job doing the survey, because in some contexts, John Doe's opinion means fuck all if you don't know who he is. Who are you? :D

that is really eating you up isnt it?

you really, really, really wanne know a pseudonym of a virtual character. thatd be helpful wouldnt it be?
 
you said: "The handful of people who are constantly complaining here are not representative of the game population as a whole. "

that means you think you know what the majority thinks. cos thats what you have written there.

No, it means I think I know what the majority *doesn't* think. And no, that's not saying the same thing a different way.

how can you know that the "handful of people" dont represent the majority?

Because that doesn't make any fucking sense. A handful of the population is not a majority. This is super simple stuff.
 
that is really eating you up isnt it?

you really, really, really wanne know a pseudonym of a virtual character. thatd be helpful wouldnt it be?

You'd be surprised how little I care but it's just funny, you're dodging the question a lot and its very important to you to be annonymous. Your posts might mean shit to more people if we'd know who you are so we can attribute you some game experience. Just as boring player said he was new to the game but had A FUCKTON to say about how it sucks - now I would like to know who THAT was :D
Don't care about you much. I also have a very short list of options of who you are and pretty sure you too are breaking the multi account rule on forum :)
 
No, it means I think I know what the majority *doesn't* think. And no, that's not saying the same thing a different way.



Because that doesn't make any fucking sense. A handful of the population is not a majority. This is super simple stuff.

before the big political votings they make surveys with a handful of people and those surveys are quite accurate in what the total population is going to vote in the end. e.g. 2 thousand people questioned quite accurately represent 100 million people.
 
You'd be surprised how little I care but it's just funny, you're dodging the question a lot and its very important to you to be annonymous. Your posts might mean shit to more people if we'd know who you are so we can attribute you some game experience. Just as boring player said he was new to the game but had A FUCKTON to say about how it sucks - now I would like to know who THAT was :D
Don't care about you much. I also have a very short list of options of who you are and pretty sure you too are breaking the multi account rule on forum :)

im quite sure that you dont know me. im here a long time but ive mostly been playing low. unamped mining, component crafting, and the lower iron challenges. ive been playing on and off since maybe 2005 with quite big breaks inbetween. im in no society and dont participate in chats. ive started to post here on forum as im not able to play anymore since the motion sickness VU 16.0 and thats why i made an account here to at least participate in this way a little bit. usually i dont care much for forums and i try to avoid them as much as possible. but as i cant play, this is my only way of being able to participate until they change the camera movement / zooming.
 
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