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  1. #1
    Guardian kingofaces's Avatar
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    Hit rate testing round 2: Claim respawn rates

    I'm going to keep these requests for miners and results threads together from now on and add to this thread when the testing is done.

    After our first round of testing, we found that previous miners recently in the area can affect your hit rate. The next question is how long does that effect last?

    This can be tested much the same as before. I have a set of coordinates ready to go, and we'll use the same setup of F-101 with no attachments or enhancers (you just need enough skill to max its depth and radius) to make sure as many variables we can account for are controlled. What we'll do instead is have the first person drop at each of the coordinates in order. Then, we'll wait a set amount of time x for the next person to go, a slightly longer period of time for the next, and so on. Each person will do a minimum of 30 drops (60 total using both ore and enmatter), though I might see if a couple want to do 50 dual drops instead.

    We don't need the claims to "fully" regenerate (though it would be nice to document), but just measure the hit rate change over wait time. These results won't be an ultimate guide to when you can get the best hit rate for a specific area since that can likely change due to other factors, but we can at least figure out how long you should wait to at least avoid significantly overlapping on "emptied" areas.

    So first, I need to know how many people are interested tentatively in joining in with the first miner on March 9, likely at 16:00 UTC again as a start time. I'd like to get everyone to meet up just to confirm we're all ready to go at our preset individual times.

    Last time, we shared the loot to in order to spread out loses if they happened, so we can do that again if people agree to it. I'm looking to fill this rough setup of treatments right now, but that can be modified next week as things develop, we get more people, etc.:

    Miner # Wait time (minutes) after previous miner Avatar Start time (UTC)
    1 NA (drop until radius filled) Kingofaces 16:00
    2 15 Leeloo 16:15
    3 30 Casper 16:45
    4 60 Leeloo 17:45
    5 120 Casper 19:45

    This one will be a bit more time sensitive, so if sometime next week you realize you can't make it at an assigned time, let me know before that Saturday so I can modify the order and let others know since it will change their start time.

    This is only going to be done at one location for now as an initial experiment. It's possible claims may regenerate quicker in some locations, but that'll be secondary variation to talk about afterwards. Depth testing will probably be the next experiment after this one later in March.
    Last edited by kingofaces; 03-09-2019 at 16:56.

  2. #2
    Guardian kingofaces's Avatar
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    Tony KingofAces Hans
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    We had some interesting results from this today. Methods are all above mostly, so I'll go straight into results.

    In short, I went as the first person to "clear out" the full finder radius area, so I dropped both ore/enmatter and kept dropping at each locations until I no longer found a claim. The others did just one drop of ore/en at each of the 30 locations. We had a 5 minute buffer last time when we found that previous miners can affect your hit rate, so we increased the initial start time after the first miner to 15 minutes.

    However, we found no effect of time since last drop at a location in the treatments listed above (p = 0.429, well above the threshold of 0.05 where you'd say wait time affected hit rate).



    As a reminder, time 0 above is when the first person went, not 0 minutes after another miner. We were watching at least 20 minutes before hand in the area, and no other miners were present. The remainder of treatments show minutes since the last miner. All the confidence intervals overlap, so none of those runs had significantly different hit rates, also shown in the high p-value. My hit rate at time 0 also only shows the initial first drop at each location for comparison. Just as background, my hit rate was 27% instead of 30% when I add in those extra drops (18 extra combining ore/en), but this wasn't testing the strategy of dropping until your finder radius is filled up, so take difference that with a grain of salt.

    So why no effect here, but a strong effect in our last round of testing? It looks like whatever the "respawn" rate is (if it's truly just random respawning or something else) functionally replenishes claims in less than 15 minutes, but doesn't come into effect too much at 5 minutes. That's a much narrower window than we expected, but we also showed that people mining within the area at those longer time frames definitely do not affect your hit rate. We couldn't calculate actual respawn rates, but if it takes less than 15 minutes, it's probably not worth worrying about more than what we've looked into.

    In short, if you see someone on your radar mining, it's probably best to just wait 15 minutes, at which point your hit rate isn't going to be significantly different than what the previous miner got.

    We did record TT, but due to a global and near-global as outliers in the first two runs, this is again something to be cautious about interpreting since someone might be tempted to say there's a slight difference at 30 minutes. In short, pretty standard TT variability with no trend or significant statistical tests:



    So hopefully that mostly closes the book on mining whether you know other people are around. If you're worried about reduced hit rate and low TT, just wait 15 minutes or at least more than 5.
    Last edited by kingofaces; 03-10-2019 at 03:43.

  3. #3
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    Personally I do not think that there are pre-generated claims, its more like a set value of resources that exist in an area that can be extracted upon request.
    We pay for each other's good fortune, Mindark just supplies the platform and siphons off of us to keep the lights on.

  4. #4
    Prowler
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    I'll be there and agree to split
    Colorer lvl 34 - Texturer lvl 31
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  5. #5
    Guardian kingofaces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R4tt3xx View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Personally I do not think that there are pre-generated claims, its more like a set value of resources that exist in an area that can be extracted upon request.
    If that were the case (at least for finding a generic claim, not specific resource type), we likely wouldn't have found this in the last round. Maybe MA does something different on the back end and it's not really claims "respawning" or pre-generated before your drop as you say, but since the end result is that your hit rate and TT are affected, it's functionally as if they were "in the ground" rather than generated at the drop request.

    I used to be in the claims aren't in the ground camp before, but I'm getting convinced the other way with the data so far. We'll see how this and the later depth testing turn out.

  6. #6
    Guardian Casper's Avatar
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    I'm in and willing to split.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofaces View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If that were the case (at least for finding a generic claim, not specific resource type), we likely wouldn't have found this in the last round. Maybe MA does something different on the back end and it's not really claims "respawning" or pre-generated before your drop as you say, but since the end result is that your hit rate and TT are affected, it's functionally as if they were "in the ground" rather than generated at the drop request.

    I used to be in the claims aren't in the ground camp before, but I'm getting convinced the other way with the data so far. We'll see how this and the later depth testing turn out.
    Other active miners within the same area as you effect each other's hitrate, I agree.

    This is my hypothesis and always has been, but due to the idea's complexity, it is very difficult to verify. The game's mining areas are broken down into blocks or fields of the same size, when a miner drops a probe and misses, it creates a set of "virtual claims" around that avatar that populate that field, those claims exist in that field for as long as no miner in that area misses, once a miss occurs, that new avatar is the origin of the new set of "virtual claims".
    We pay for each other's good fortune, Mindark just supplies the platform and siphons off of us to keep the lights on.

  8. #8
    Guardian kingofaces's Avatar
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    That's three people so far. I would be great to have two more for next weekend.

  9. #9
    Guardian kingofaces's Avatar
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    Just another reminder to sign up for this weekend.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofaces View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If that were the case (at least for finding a generic claim, not specific resource type), we likely wouldn't have found this in the last round. Maybe MA does something different on the back end and it's not really claims "respawning" or pre-generated before your drop as you say, but since the end result is that your hit rate and TT are affected, it's functionally as if they were "in the ground" rather than generated at the drop request.

    I used to be in the claims aren't in the ground camp before, but I'm getting convinced the other way with the data so far. We'll see how this and the later depth testing turn out.
    Claims are not in the ground.... They are generated upon a miner getting a miss when mining and spawn around that avatar, any avatar that is within radar range of that event will have their claim spawning layout altered to match the miss event's coordinates. Any avatar that did not witness that event will not have their layout altered.

    When a request is made, a timestamp is used to generate the array based from the coordinates of the last miss that the avatar last witnessed. If that avatar's request is within range of a found "virtual claim", it spawns.

    Being aware of other avatars actions is crucial.
    Last edited by R4tt3xx; 03-05-2019 at 08:52.
    We pay for each other's good fortune, Mindark just supplies the platform and siphons off of us to keep the lights on.

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