Cost to play issue, is EU value for money to you?

We have plenty issues to deal with and according to many one of the most important is cost to play. I have heard tons of stories in game and on this forum where some people were saying that their cost to play can exceed 10 USD per hour. But except smilgs long run log we have actually zero solid data and measurements on this matter.

I know that for many this may be a delicate thing but I guess we should once and for all deal with the "cost to play" issue and try to answer the question - is the level of fun I receive worth the money I pay. Many of us say that cost of play is a disaster, game is only for billionaires and it's expensive as f**k.

On the other hand, I know that many of you have their excel sheets in which you keep your returns and tools you use but you never share it with the community. It's easy to calculate how much ped on average you cycle per hour and compare it with total amount of cycled money. If you say that "cost to play" is an issue, share you playstyle with us. Tell us what you do and how much it costs you. If there is no clear examples, MA will never take care of this matter. The question would be now how much this issue is created by our attitude to Entropia and how big role MindArk plays here.

We know that they responded somehow to the issue by implementing Loot 2.0. I came back to EU after Loot 2.0 just for testing, depoed 120 USD and started to track my returns. According to my spreadsheet I had pure 130 hours of shooting since I came back. I have spent also about 12 hours on mining and 2 hours on crafting. Also, I spent some time on trading, sweating, chatting with people, racing, playing hide-and-seek on NI, doing missions and exploring. But let's count only the pure activities.

Since I came back I had about 144 hours of pure gameplay and total amount of money I have now is 147 USD. Basically, MindArk paid me 27 USD for playing their game. I was doing low level hunting with webshop stuff, finished some Iron missions and travelled across the universe. Noob playstyle in general. Had some fun but...

... the issue is - after Loot 2.0 hunting on low level has become extremely boring. I can't stand more than 3 hours of playing. I'm too bored. Sometimes I try to do some fun stuff like big shared mobs, small events or instances but still end up pretty bored. Thrill is gone.

I must admit that before Loot 2.0 I could loose 100 ped on daikibas young in just 4-5 hours of shooting. I was deositing 10usd, I went to burn it on small daikis and was coming back with 65 ped. After that, I was going again with 65ped, coming back with 40 and after 5 hours my 100 ped of ammo were 15 ped of animal eye oil. That was something that made me resign. It was not worth to pay 10usd daily on low level hunting. I could not even out despite I had some small globals.

Has Loot 2.0 imporved value for money feeling? Yes and No. You don't loose money that fast now but gameplay is super boring. I feel nothing when I play. I used to feel anger, happiness, excitement but now I just do some pew pew pew and log off. But in general I feel satisfied with the changes, I can shoot from time to time, don't have to pay tons of usd for it, but the thrill that kept me addicted is long gone now. I'm happy I can be part of this project but I am not convinced I should be more involved than I am now. I am not going to foma with amp13. With Loot 2.0 i do not see any reason I should do that.

Tell me guys straightforward, what is your cost to play? Are satisfied with what you see. Is Entropia fun for you. Can you say that Entropia Universe is value for money? What changes would you like to see?

Thanks!

There is no 1 answer to this question.
Only subjective points of view from different players.

Looking from my perspective the game is free, hell, I even make money with it.

For others it's a huge money drain.

It just so greatly depends on your play style.
So, there is no final conclusion to your question. Just points of view.

wizz said:

There is no 1 answer to this question.
Only subjective points of view from different players.

Looking from my perspective the game is free, hell, I even make money with it.

For others it's a huge money drain.

It just so greatly depends on your play style.
So, there is no final conclusion to your question. Just points of view.

Click to expand...

The more feedback you have, the more you realize that. That's why I said that after Loot 2.0 this may be more our attitude to EU rather than serious issue for MA. I know that explo gambler will have different POV that noob z12 barbarella puny slayer but I want to know both opinions. Community is so polarized on this matter that we should sort it out somehow. Is EU worth the money and if not, what should change. How to make experience more exciting after Loot 2.0 which made the game extremely predictable. Or maybe this make you feel that now you like what you pay for?

Do I really need to go to foma with amp13 to feel the excitement I used to feel?

It seems that MA does not have clear plans on development after camera stuff so maybe this can indicate them the path.

Geralt said:

... what should change.
.

Click to expand...

I can be very clear about that.
Roll back this UTTERLY useless V16 update!!!!

The killed my entropia experience with it.
14 years of conditioning gonna to waste.

The sole reason for me to want to cash out and find something else to play.

But that has nothing to do with COST to play.

Simple way to make the game more interesting would be to add story lines back in...

We have many unresolved story lines from years ago that could have a lot more done with them...

mastermesh said:

Simple way to make the game more interesting would be to add story lines back in...

We have many unresolved story lines from years ago that could have a lot more done with them...

Click to expand...

I second that. Quests in EU are super boring. Like missions near volcano that grant you access to the cave. It's like go there, speak to npc, fly there, come back to click on the radio. Two hours of going back and forth. No real reason behind that.

And tbh why Calypso is what it is? What's the story? Wouldn't it be great to follow even a simple and trivial storyline like: there was a big war against AI on Earth, humans lost it and had to run away to other planet but some human DNA was saved, humans can replicate themselves with it and found a home on a planet Calypso inhabited by ferocious mobs but AI tracked us and sent their robots and drones to hunt us.

From time to time robots invade our forts (sounds familiar?) and we have to defend them. Besides that, we hunt, craft and mine to maintain our new reborn civilization and populate new planets.

No lore is big minus in terms of value for money.

Took me 10min to figure it out. Now EU has no soul. No reason behind it.

wizz said:

There is no 1 answer to this question.
Only subjective points of view from different players.

Looking from my perspective the game is free, hell, I even make money with it.

For others it's a huge money drain.

It just so greatly depends on your play style.
So, there is no final conclusion to your question. Just points of view.

Click to expand...

This pretty much sums it up...

Personally I don't track comparing loot 2.0 to previous. I try to look at the total time I've played vs how much I've spent.

I can easily say that I've put in nearly 6000+ hours in the game and with that I've gotten WAY more value in terms of hours of gameplay per dollar than any other of the 500+ games I've got on steam or any other platform. In fact all things considered (including my skill value) I've made a substantial amount of money by playing this game.

jambon said:

This pretty much sums it up...

Personally I don't track comparing loot 2.0 to previous. I try to look at the total time I've played vs how much I've spent.

I can easily say that I've put in nearly 6000+ hours in the game and with that I've gotten WAY more value in terms of hours of gameplay per dollar than any other of the 500+ games I've got on steam or any other platform. In fact all things considered (including my skill value) I've made a substantial amount of money by playing this game.

Click to expand...

But what if you subtract $17,000 usd ?

Geralt said:

I second that. Quests in EU are super boring. Like missions near volcano that grant you access to the cave. It's like go there, speak to npc, fly there, come back to click on the radio. Two hours of going back and forth. No real reason behind that.

And tbh why Calypso is what it is? What's the story? Wouldn't it be great to follow even a simple and trivial storyline like: there was a big war against AI on Earth, humans lost it and had to run away to other planet but some human DNA was saved, humans can replicate themselves with it and found a home on a planet Calypso inhabited by ferocious mobs but AI tracked us and sent their robots and drones to hunt us.

From time to time robots invade our forts (sounds familiar?) and we have to defend them. Besides that, we hunt, craft and mine to maintain our new reborn civilization and populate new planets.

No lore is big minus in terms of value for money.

Took me 10min to figure it out. Now EU has no soul. No reason behind it.

Click to expand...

Hi
That is not completely true, Calypso have a storyline, also true that have not been update for a while (years)
But if you are interested you can read the "original" storyline, collected from entropia site and added with many side stories by several colonists
http://library.entropia-library.xyz...ew_frontier/index.html?_=1551715904462#page/1

Cost to ‘play’ is a lot more complicated than cost to ‘shoot’.
You might need to take into account unlimited equipment, and potential devaluation of that equipment.

If a player buys a gun for 50K peds.
Uses it to the play the game and unbelievably generates 15K peds profit.
Then his gun is devalued for various reasons and is now worth 30K peds, then that player is still down 5K.

If a player buys a top end ring for 25K and next year its worth 15K (because say new items devalued it), then they need to find 10K profit to just to break even on the devaluation on just that one item they own.

I’ve used the word ‘profit’ twice to please the fan boys, but cost to ‘shoot’ is extremely subjective.

Add to that investing in things that could go 50/50 if you get what you pay for, and the realms of ‘cost’ can be quite expensive.

My advice after 13 years or so, is keep it simple.

Rick

If you deposit 10k USD and you want to withdraw them 5 years later but your country made a stupid economical decision so the exchange rate to your currency got screwed, you're losing as well.
This has as much to do with MindArks share on 'cost to play' then your statement - nothing.

Quantity crafting:
pre loot 2.0: buy 1000 PED TT materials, MA usually took 70-100 PED
pre loot 2.0: after ~3 months get a few globals/hofs to get to 95% return

since loot 2.0: buy 1000 PED TT materials, MA usually takes 150-200 PED
since loot 2.0: after 8+* months get a very big hof to get to 95% return
* exact time unknown, as there wasn't enough time yet to figure out if there's some static timing. Currently it is, the more i click/mine the further i get away from 95% return...

Condition crafting:
pre loot 2.0: expect to lose half of what has been put in
since loot 2.0: expect to lose a maximum of about 40% of what has been put in.

Condition crafting got better, quantity crafting got worse.

As it goes for value for money question, totally forgot clear answer about that one lol, it's not anymore.

In my opinion Loot 2.0 is the best what coud happen, now new player and also low level Player can play, have a lot of time to check the game and not lose fast the invested money. Its not nice to lose 50 % @ Daikibas and many people woud not deposite again "fast" after such an experience.

The goal should be to keep players and balance where both sides benefit, the player and MA. Not everyone needs excitement and thrill everywhere. Sometimes people just want to level up and have fun / have entertainment.

I think the old Entropia system was just not fair ...

Captain Crunch said:

In my opinion Loot 2.0 is the best what coud happen, now new player and also low level Player can play, have a lot of time to check the game and not lose fast the invested money. Its not nice to lose 50 % @ Daikibas and many people woud not deposite again "fast" after such an experience.

The goal should be to keep players and balance where both sides benefit, the player and MA. Not everyone needs excitement and thrill everywhere. Sometimes people just want to level up and have fun / have entertainment.

I think the old Entropia system was just not fair ...

Click to expand...

Really?

A new player who did the starter missions (which give a totally wrong picture of EU), may give EU a serious try and deposit 100$.
Now he is doing a 100 PED hunt every day.
After 10 days he has 900 PED left, goes another 9 days and he has 800 PED left, well next 8 days. First month nearly over.
He continues with his 100 PED hunts at the end of second month he is broke.
In this 2 month the biggest global on the mobs he is able to hunt was very likely far below 100 PED and even if he hit a few 6 or 10 PEDers himself, he is still broke.

His actual cost to play was 50$/month - 5 times of the average subscription based game.

As the biggest global he has seen on the mobs he can hunt was 100 PEDs, using a little comon sense would tell him, there is no way to recover even a part of his loss with this mobs, speak his cost to play will stay at the same level, and never ever he would be able to have profit or even break even the long run.

Here he may question himself: Should I really continue with that?
How is gameplay compared to other games.
How is content compared to other games.
How is gfx compared to other games.
Well its a fairly lame grinding game, only thing that makes it attractive is the RCE aspect.
But hell there is no way to profit, so what the fuck should a play this RCE at such a high cost when there is artifically no way to recover my losses.

In the old times the same new player, has seen 1000 PED+ up to 5k PED HoFs at exactly that mobs he can hunt as a beginner.
Sure he might have one or other 50% return, but he only spent 100$ and even this small mobs are good to get 100$ just from 1 loot and even profit if you hit that magic 500$ loot on one of them.
In the old days we have seen the chance to get back everything we lost, from just one damn loot.
This is no longer the case and therefor it is very unlike that new players will stay for more than a few month.

Its no motivation to lose 10 PED on every 100 PED hunt combibos when you can expect a 6-10 PED global at best, and maybe once every 2 month there is a 50-60 PED global in chat, which wont even cover your last weeks loss.

In the old days you could depsoit 100$ every month and still just need 1 damn 1500 PED combibo young to recover your all years loss.
It was real, as you could see it in chat or HoF list at least once a month, or even more often.

Its about motivation to spent more.
With the flat 90-95% return and atrifically no MU and no really big globals, its not high motivation to continue.

GoNi said:

Really?

A new player who did the starter missions (which give a totally wrong picture of EU), may give EU a serious try and deposit 100$.
Now he is doing a 100 PED hunt every day.
After 10 days he has 900 PED left, goes another 9 days and he has 800 PED left, well next 8 days. First month nearly over.
He continues with his 100 PED hunts at the end of second month he is broke.
In this 2 month the biggest global on the mobs he is able to hunt was very likely far below 100 PED and even if he hit a few 6 or 10 PEDers himself, he is still broke.

His actual cost to play was 50$/month - 5 times of the average subscription based game.

As the biggest global he has seen on the mobs he can hunt was 100 PEDs, using a little comon sense would tell him, there is no way to recover even a part of his loss with this mobs, speak his cost to play will stay at the same level, and never ever he would be able to have profit or even break even the long run.

Here he may question himself: Should I really continue with that?
How is gameplay compared to other games.
How is content compared to other games.
How is gfx compared to other games.
Well its a fairly lame grinding game, only thing that makes it attractive is the RCE aspect.
But hell there is no way to profit, so what the fuck should a play this RCE at such a high cost when there is artifically no way to recover my losses.

In the old times the same new player, has seen 1000 PED+ up to 5k PED HoFs at exactly that mobs he can hunt as a beginner.
Sure he might have one or other 50% return, but he only spent 100$ and even this small mobs are good to get 100$ just from 1 loot and even profit if you hit that magic 500$ loot on one of them.
In the old days we have seen the chance to get back everything we lost, from just one damn loot.
This is no longer the case and therefor it is very unlike that new players will stay for more than a few month.

Its no motivation to lose 10 PED on every 100 PED hunt combibos when you can expect a 6-10 PED global at best, and maybe once every 2 month there is a 50-60 PED global in chat, which wont even cover your last weeks loss.

In the old days you could depsoit 100$ every month and still just need 1 damn 1500 PED combibo young to recover your all years loss.
It was real, as you could see it in chat or HoF list at least once a month, or even more often.

Its about motivation to spent more.
With the flat 90-95% return and atrifically no MU and no really big globals, its not high motivation to continue.

Click to expand...

I pay 20 Euro and have play 3 months. Have make the Carabok Iron Quest and finish it, have make the hornet Iron Quest and have finish it, have make the Puny Iron quest and have finish it and i have make the low first stages of other iron Quests.

I get a small global on the Caraboks, by the Hornets and i also think by the Punys.

I have hunt mobs, i need heal for, need not armor for and have skill up. Have save the Items i have loot, the Hides i have sell well and other things i have just keep. I have just buy me things i need, my Sleipnir has 3,30 Ped on it, have get it for 5 PED and it flys well, also easy in space.

No idea how other people play, maybee the way i play is for many people boring, but for me is EU very cheap and i like playing this way. I listen most of time Audio books, or watch Tv or iam talking with other people in Team Speak. I like the grinding, need not think much about the game, just killing mobs.

I now how it was in the past (a few years ago) from a Friend of me, he deposit 20 or 30€, hunt 1 Hour and after that it was just 65 or 70 PED left. Everything was worse balanced, many things were confusing, the weapons had to be repaired faster. The feeling was much more expensive and unfair.

I do not play a game to make a profit, if I pass it I am very happy, but it is primarily about good entertainment. I leave the graphics setting low, not because my PC could not, but because I find it more comfortable. It's pretty old-fashioned then.

Here he may question himself: Should I really continue with that?
Why not?
How is content compared to other games.
I do not ask myself that if I want something different, do I open my Steam library and play something else, it's just games?
How is gfx compared to other games.
The graphics are not important to me. I am only need that I have a pleasant camera
Well its a fairly lame grinding game, only thing that makes it attractive is the RCE aspect.
For me it is so attractive and pleasant.
But hell there is no way to profit, so what the fuck should a play this RCE at such a high cost when there is artifically no way to recover my losses.
For entertainment you play a game. To interact with different people. To have a break from real life. There are many ways to keep the loss low. You can buying youself Land Deeds and play for free, this is one way. Many people do it.

But at the end this is my opinion but I started to play 5 or 6 months ago, so I think I can perform well from the point of view of a new player. It always depends on your own personality and how you want to play.

If you want to kill the super mob, who is in the trend too much, you pay for it. If you want to have an ATH like everyone else (many people want this now), you pay for it. But If you do not let youself on these things, it runs quite well.

Always remember when you play EU to play at a cost you are comfortable. There is not one way to play that is correct and one that is wrong. This game can be enjoyed for $0, $5, and $5,000 a month.

Have never thought that the game is financially justifiable but I liked the game with its content and played for fun.

I enjoyed the game with its range and how the game looked with all its places you could see and visit, like mysterious places, different cities and abandoned places all this slowly disappeared.

Then about 3 years ago MA made lots of stealt moobs and moobs who pops-up beside you all time, then I couldn't enjoy more of the game's atmosphere.

From my point of view, the game is more fair to all now, loot balance is better since 2.0. Cost of play is less, only problem is the size of your bankroll need to be pretty big if you want to play 4-5 hours a day and average out.
Now an work on in-game content.

GoNi said:

Really?

Click to expand...

Yes. 95% TT is really ok for vast mayority of smart players.

According to me its a matter of perspective. EU is as expensive as one wants to make it or as profitable as one wants.

Time, Money, Fun are 3 variables. You can have any 2 at a given time. Take your pick.

GoNi said:

In the old times the same new player, has seen 1000 PED+ up to 5k PED HoFs at exactly that mobs he can hunt as a beginner.
Sure he might have one or other 50% return, but he only spent 100$ and even this small mobs are good to get 100$ just from 1 loot and even profit if you hit that magic 500$ loot on one of them.

Click to expand...

Do you think it's a satisfying gameplay for those who get 50% return , when always another person hits something big?

Captain Crunch said:

I now how it was in the past (a few years ago) from a Friend of me, he deposit 20 or 30€, hunt 1 Hour and after that it was just 65 or 70 PED left.

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2 Days ago i had ~700 PED left, played 1.5-2 hours, did nothing big*, now i have 30 ped left... and it's like that too often... so where's the magical hof GoNi is talking about? Ah someone else got it, i'm happy for that person, but doesn't make the game better for me...

*1000 click crafting run + ~400 unamped mining bombs.

little ad: RT auction is restocked with RT vehicle BPs.

WookieTown said:

Always remember when you play EU to play at a cost you are comfortable. There is not one way to play that is correct and one that is wrong. This game can be enjoyed for $0, $5, and $5,000 a month.

Click to expand...

Exactly, thats is the philosophy of EU. The level for a player is not the level of its highest profession, thats is only referential. The real level of a player is its comfort linked to size of its pocket.

900 dollers for 8 years worth of gameplay. Yes is value for money for me.

Propaganda

This games player-base is, by far, THE BEST IN THE WORLD. That's not a joke or hyperbole. It's a fact. Another fact is, MA should pay US for playing and they do, in the form of various ways to make money if you cannot afford to deposit.

The notion that this poorly worded question infers is … just gross.