Suggestion: Stop the skill devaluation

Isnt the ESIs the value of the skills atm, if those were TT wed have a true value of the skill and a shorter way to enter for beginners since the total cost for skills would be much lower.

That way it would be more fair for all and easier to exit for those with alot of skills and easier to start the game and the value would be in the skill only and not to the lucky looter of the ESI.

Sorry for interrupting but this is sticking to my own field of activity since Id happily sell 100k+ TT of skills :)

//Linzey

Everyone wants for skills to matter more an have more value. Those of you who 'left' or want to and also those of us that still are active would prefer for skills to be worth a lot more. And yes why not, when chipping in or out, you'd prefer to find esi at TT, but, a significant part of your skill was made during the ESI farm because it was the best markup across many events over years. Markup is still there and ESI is a significant part of it. This is something mastermesh, as a lurker in this universe can't understand and MA also can't quite grasp this.
Abruptly switching the ESIs to tt value would've probably made you quit even few more years early not just because you had over 10k tt often, but, it would have been a lot harder to profit from hunting so not worth playing at all. And not for you but for the majority of the top hunters which would have been rather bad as it turns out the following eomon migrations were, without ESI and without weapons.
Cheaper skill transaction but higher skill value is something we all would prefer, but, if these things were more accessible, maybe another player would start sell, and another one, and maybe me too, since I have almost twice the levels I need for my weapon so why not sell the excess too. So even if ESI at TT would mean an easier and cheaper way out, it's a two edge sword because if demand would increase, so would the supply and I can assure you the supply is many times more than the demand - be careful what you wish for :)
You know and understand all this but mastermesh, with a total (12 years) turnover equal to your turnover in one of your good day, knows jack shit about hunting and ESI in loot.

I'm not biased in this, I think, as I sell my ESI as I loot them, not when the MU is super high - maybe that's why the ESI got so expensive over the years, because the top hunters waited with selling them until that moment of the year when everyone was looking for them, maybe if everyone sold them as they looted them, maybe the ESI wou;d have been 4-600% as they once were while skills were over 1.5-2k%...

Esi at tt would be a very bad move, by itself, if not complemented with a complete new set of rules and changes to make up for the difference in MU a hunter gets (which is 2-5 esi a day in hardcore mode during events and which means a lot as the losses are much higher during those times)
 
I agree with Evey concerning the idea to make ESI available at TT, that would only cause the skills to devaluate even stronger.

In my opinion what is needed is more incentive to skill up. There should be a reason to keep on skilling and for skills to have value. The DPS have been improving steadily the last years and to my opinion the available content didn't grew in the same speed. There should be more high level content, there alreadyhas been some steps in this direction but this is something MA needs to work on.

We have already seen more variety and availabily of weapons of more skill levels with the introduction of the ArMatrix series, and i'm quite sure there will be more in the future. The game is 16 years old, so the total skills ingame keeps on growing, the content should grow with that.
 
No need to put ESI in tt. All MA has to do is increase drop rate gradually to push MU down - we don't need ESI's at 105% but pretty sure MA could push down MU to 200% range with drop rate adjustments, especially if they would announce their intention to give time for hoarders to unload.

Ppl who rely on ESI's MU wouldn't lose as they would get more of ESI's but with lower MU - higher tt should compensate for MU drop. Other ppl would gain ability to trade skills more freely. MA would gain too since ESI's loose 10% tt on skill load and that's extra decay for them if ppl chip in/out more - it's funny, that change looks like win-win for both community and MA. MA is actually losing ESI's decay by keeping drop rates low. High MU is clear signal ppl would trade skills more with more ESIs available.

The only losers with that move would be ppl who hoard them to keep MU high if such ppl exist.
 
No need to put ESI in tt. All MA has to do is increase drop rate gradually to push MU down - we don't need ESI's at 105% but pretty sure MA could push down MU to 200% range with drop rate adjustments, especially if they would announce their intention to give time for hoarders to unload.

Ppl who rely on ESI's MU wouldn't lose as they would get more of ESI's but with lower MU - higher tt should compensate for MU drop. Other ppl would gain ability to trade skills more freely. MA would gain too since ESI's loose 10% tt on skill load and that's extra decay for them if ppl chip in/out more - it's funny, that change looks like win-win for both community and MA. MA is actually losing ESI's decay by keeping drop rates low. High MU is clear signal ppl would trade skills more with more ESIs available.

The only losers with that move would be ppl who hoard them to keep MU high if such ppl exist.

^^ the solution imo
 
I do not understand where the problem is. :scratch2:
It is a win - win situation. Poorly skilled players get skills and those who submit skills can continue to play in the smaller category. :wtg:
The only ones who could lose are those who earn their money selling skills. It's stupid for them. But for the big crowd of players, are on the winning side. This is how EU works .......

Greetz
 
I agree with Evey concerning the idea to make ESI available at TT, that would only cause the skills to devaluate even stronger.

In my opinion what is needed is more incentive to skill up. There should be a reason to keep on skilling and for skills to have value. The DPS have been improving steadily the last years and to my opinion the available content didn't grew in the same speed. There should be more high level content, there alreadyhas been some steps in this direction but this is something MA needs to work on.

Yes, i said same many pages before. People needs to know their skills have something of value. Because if MA do not pay tt value for skills anymore, MA should put ESIs in TTs to give to skills their real value again.
 
No need to put ESI in tt. All MA has to do is increase drop rate gradually to push MU down - we don't need ESI's at 105% but pretty sure MA could push down MU to 200% range with drop rate adjustments, especially if they would announce their intention to give time for hoarders to unload.

No, because today skills have nothing of value. Nothing. It have not even tt value. Because MA do not pay for skills like before ( in old times if you stopped playing for a long time, the game returned to you the tt value of everything yours including skills. But now anymore). To put a tax of 200% for selling your skills is too many really.
 
Skills past on since day one from player 2 player with the tiny loss of 10% ,top that with skill events,pills,buffs,sib.


More skills need to be destroyed than the 10% ,plus be more important for the gameplay.
 
No, because today skills have nothing of value. Nothing. It have not even tt value. Because MA do not pay for skills like before ( in old times if you stopped playing for a long time, the game returned to you the tt value of everything yours including skills. But now anymore). To put a tax of 200% for selling your skills is too many really.


MA has never paid for skills in inactive accounts, just for the tt value of items that are on the avatar and in storage ! Skills have never had a "tt-value" when it comes to MA,s responsibility!
 
MA has never paid for skills in inactive accounts, just for the tt value of items that are on the avatar and in storage ! Skills have never had a "tt-value" when it comes to MA,s responsibility!

The information was given to me by someone who told me that he received in 2006. I could be wrong. however, something that has no tt value could not be sold as %.
 
The information was given to me by someone who told me that he received in 2006. I could be wrong. however, something that has no tt value could not be sold as %.

The TT value comes from the ESI..
 
The TT value comes from the ESI..

I am not sure. Because every avatar have skills for a specific tt value inside it, and with that value it can buy an ESI of that size to pack it these skills.
 
I am not sure. Because every avatar have skills for a specific tt value inside it, and with that value it can buy an ESI of that size to pack it these skills.

The difference between what you get paid for an empty esi and an esi filled with skills is the value that the buyer pays for your skills when you sell, its called Markup price and.. Why would Mind Ark pay for a value they have no control over?
 
I think a possible solution would be to introduce a new series of crafted (L) weapons with high efficiency (+80%) and low dps (so that they are not too op), that require a high level to max.

I am still quite new so I don't know if this would be enough to add value to combat skills. However, I believe this would increase MU for the materials used and make it easier to break even for high level users, making combat skills more valuable.
 
I would like to address the following problems:

  1. Players chipping out systematically to stay in a certain event category. Sometimes giving away their skills for free or even paying someone just to take them.
  2. The generalized devaluation of avatar skills as a whole, in my opinion heavily related to issue #1.
  3. The lack of reward/objectives past certain level.

Is this how the game is supposed to work?

Keep it civil please, thanks.

PS: I'm not directly affected, I just think there is a serious problem. I also don't have a magical solution that will fix everything, maybe we can find one together :)

Events is the first problem while the initial step to have categories for different levels was nice it isn't great for this game, as an open sand box and it actually makes it far less competitive.

Chipping down to a category that isn't competitive to win takes away all competition of the event. Not sure why MA doesn't want a great competition across all categories? It's completely backwards now.

Honestly Ark had the event right with Gold Rush. There is 1 category for Noobs then after that the rest is open season.

The event format on Caly should be done the same way to increase competition in all the categories without having to chip out.

Have Cat 1 for noobs and after that it is open for anyone to do whatever category after that. I skill non stop and personally hate doing high categories when I like killing small mobs. I have weapons to kill small mobs and want to compete in any category. For one it increases the competition across the board since you no longer have to chip out. It also makes sure that one category isn't light on competition while another is stocked full of hunters. So it becomes balanced.

If you have 300 HP and are 150 lvl laser however you only want to do Cat 2 and compete in Cat 2 they should let you. They already have the HP and Weapon Max in place. Soon as you enter just scale down the HP and only allow that max weapon in there. This opens up competition across all the Cats. Not only that it isn't boring!!!

Maybe you want to do Cat 2 one day then Cat 7 the next. The one you score the highest in is recorded. Let everyone have fun compete and increase the PED spent having fun instead of being stuck with the only option to chip down to have fun.

It makes ZERO sense to have someone confined to a specific Category based on prof level lol! It totally takes the fun and competition out of it. Let people compete in multiple Categories and really have some fun. I would probably actually spend PED on events again if you actually made it competitive and open. Many others would too.


I might add having all Categories open style from Cat 2-10 allows weapons MU to hold value. This is an all around win/win as more players will do events, skills hold value, items hold value and MA gets tons of PED cycled. Perhaps you buy an awesome weapon for Cat 3 and Cat 6. So you compete in both. End of the day it's more fun, hours played and people doing events.
 
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Events is the first problem while the initial step to have categories for different levels was nice it isn't great for this game, as an open sand box and it actually makes it far less competitive.

Chipping down to a category that isn't competitive to win takes away all competition of the event. Not sure why MA doesn't want a great competition across all categories? It's completely backwards now.

Because we have had that in the past and a lot people complained about the yearly giveaway to always the same top geared and skilled players.
The introduction of different cats is a good thing for lower level players.

If you have 300 HP and are 150 lvl laser however you only want to do Cat 2 and compete in Cat 2 they should let you. They already have the HP and Weapon Max in place. Soon as you enter just scale down the HP and only allow that max weapon in there. This opens up competition across all the Cats. Not only that it isn't boring!!!

If they do that, they simply can remove all cats and do just one, as people like Messi and Co, simply would win all cats, no more chance for lower levels players with less efficent gear to win anything in an event.
It would also eliminate your chance to win anything, as I dont think you can beat anyone from the top10 in Cat 10, or am I wrong here?

It makes ZERO sense to have someone confined to a specific Category based on prof level lol! It totally takes the fun and competition out of it. Let people compete in multiple Categories and really have some fun. I would probably actually spend PED on events again if you actually made it competitive and open. Many others would too.

There is competition between those who can enter that specific Cat, or do you really think you can win Cat 1 wihtout properly preparing for it. You need not only the best gear for the Cat, you also need enough pills to have the buffs that give you an advantage over the others.
To prepare for this event you need time to stock up all this things, and others in that cat do it, so you are forced to do it aswell to have a chance. I call that competition.
Even with top gear for any of the cats and enough pills, its still not said that you will win it, there is others with equivalent gear and same amount of pills that will compete there.

The only problem I see is the number of prices that are given out every year.
Imho this is to much to give 10 prices for each Cat, it would be enough to hand out 3 / cat, that would reduce the devaluation of gear. Well it would still be a little devaluation with every event but a little slower than we have it now.

But this thread is not about the events its about devaluation of skills in general.

There is simply not enough gear that needs serious skills.
To make skills valuable we simply need gear that needs higher skills than Lv100, and voila people will skill to use that gear.
If there is guns with very high efficency that needs Lv150 or Lv200 to be maxed there is incentive to skill to the point to use the top efficent gear.

Same goes for mining and crafting, if there is gear above the existing max level requirements that is more efficent than actual top gear people would skill to use it.
Let this gear be crafted and L and make the BPs for it need a serious crafter level, there would also be incentive for crafters to continuously skilling to craft this top end gear.

I remember my early day, when I chipped in FA simply to be able to use a better FAP.
When there is no better FAP than what I have and I am maxed on it, it does not make sense to skill further (or chip in), and it does not make sense to keep the skills for more than just bragging.

You get the point?
 
the founding fathers are rolling in thier graves while we discuss the instancing they fought so hard to stop from happenning. when the commies took over, the first thing they did was bring instancing in. now that the leftists are almost completely powerless its time to reimplement persistence. a persitent universe is a better religion.

there's a reason our servers are divided up like they are and that was to provide a smoothe simulated persistence. if persitent universe is not the goal, then there's no reason the servers should be divided up like they are.

a redesign of the server system setup would make for a better game. and we all know how MA and most of us PCFers feel about complete redesign, so elimination of the instances is the better option. if eliminating the instancing is also not an option then why not make them entirely seperate servers? the lag is our common enemy and must be mitigated.

the original sytem design that makes this game so great included persitence. i truly believe that persistence itself needs to be held in the same esteem as we hold the almighty Lootius. all hail Lootius in the Persistent Entropia Universe.

taking these thoughts into consideration perhaps MA will solve these Mayhem category and other competition and event issues. changing them up season to season is also part of the problem. besides the instancing there are several other reasons i don't, and won't, compete in the mayhem events.

first, is the prize structure. the earliest mayhem and last for that matter was when i placed 23rd in the event. i was happy and waited what seemed like forever to get my prize. when it didn't come and i asked why they pointed out that the structure meant the first ten got something then the 15th, 20th and 25th places also only got something. that's when i discovered communists are retarded.

second, is the way event mobs don't count towards iron missions and go so far as to have different damage altogether. why? again, leftists cannot withstand scrutiny.

chipping out to play in certain categories is proof entropians need government. what kind of government should be up to us. unless you all vote for communism that is.

my ideas for improvement? the events should be more spectator oriented. they should also be more like triathlons or even olympics. if makeup is an actual part of this game there should be fashion shows. and again the winners should be known as that categories best for the time until the next event. i will never tire of asking for persitence and fighting instancing.
 
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Because we have had that in the past and a lot people complained about the yearly giveaway to always the same top geared and skilled players.
The introduction of different cats is a good thing for lower level players.

Are you listening to what I am saying at all? There are yearly giveaways now because there isn't any competition! No we didn't have what I suggested at all! Yes we need different Cats and yes we should still have a Cat 1 for only new players. Then the rest is open so that way there is equal competition. So everyone can compete and it isn't giving away free gear to uncompetitive Cats.



If they do that, they simply can remove all cats and do just one, as people like Messi and Co, simply would win all cats, no more chance for lower levels players with less efficent gear to win anything in an event.
It would also eliminate your chance to win anything, as I dont think you can beat anyone from the top10 in Cat 10, or am I wrong here?

Again you completely are missing the point of having a real competition as you are making every Category actually competitive. Right now the Cats aren't competitive at all. You have some Cats that have maybe 20-30 people in it. Then you you have some Cats completely saturated and then most of the players don't even bother to compete with the current restrictions. It is poorly designed!!

Messi will do Cat 10 because he has motives, "PED" and gear to compete for a "BETTER" prize. The lower players won't have less efficient gear. There is already Max HP and Max Dps implemented. So your actual HP and Max level is irrelevant.

You can freely compete and make it a real competition by competing in multiple Cats during events according to your "PED" card and playstyle. You can only win "ONE" Cat. So the end of the day it doesn't matter. However you will now enable each Category to have 100's of players competing instead of only a few! How can you not see this? It is increasing participation across the board by a massive amount!

I am currently in Cat 7 now and refuse to do events because for one I am not chipping out and two I want to do lower Categories and use lower gear that is required for that competition. Instead of there not being a real competition at all. Being able to compete in Cat 2, 3 ,4 etc would get players into the competition and depositing. It creates a better experience as opposed to NO EXPERIENCE AT ALL!!


Keep in mind that Cat 7 isn't competitive because none of the Cats are since there is no open entry. In case you are thinking that the limited number of participants based on skills is a good thing sigh.....
There is competition between those who can enter that specific Cat, or do you really think you can win Cat 1 wihtout properly preparing for it. You need not only the best gear for the Cat, you also need enough pills to have the buffs that give you an advantage over the others.
To prepare for this event you need time to stock up all this things, and others in that cat do it, so you are forced to do it aswell to have a chance. I call that competition.
Even with top gear for any of the cats and enough pills, its still not said that you will win it, there is others with equivalent gear and same amount of pills that will compete there.

No there isn't competition between those few people in that Cat based on their Professional level lol. That is ridiculous to think that! It is a few people staying the same level to win an event year after year because it isn't competitive at all. It is a much bigger problem now. The same 10 people always doing the same Cat.... Geeez that sure screams competitive gameplay ROFL!

It isn't open competition. The event is could already be set up in a way like Battlesim it is fair for all. Anyone should be able to enter a Cat and upon entering your HP and weapon requirements are set. Anyone against this idea only wants the easy lack of competition in their category. Having 20 people compete for 10 prizes is hardly a competition. Having each category with requirements and open to anyone means it's a competitive event.

I would like to see each category have 100's of participants instead of a handful. Also there is no reason to have professional level eliminating you from events of the game. Let people play and play and compete with the PED card they can.

Why do you want to penalize people that enjoy skiling that don't have massive PED cards to do higher Cats? It makes zero sense. All these players just can't do events. That is why there is no competition.

You get the point?


No because you clearly don't understand my point on how to make Events competitive, balanced and thriving like I suggested. Increased participation and allowing for better competition is a good thing. :eyecrazy:

There is Zero difference between someone with 150 HP and Max Dps weapon allowed vs someone with 350 hp and the Max Dps weapon allowed in Cat 4. Since when entering it is all scaled to equal for that Category. Except now we actually created real competition and higher participation. Now there is no need to chip out and a draw for everyone to compete.

Win/Win

Do you finally get the point?
 
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MA made a release stating that the frequency of drops is based on a items MU, I think we need to drastically lower the MU of Empty Skill Implants so that a larger player base can comfortably and efficiently trade skills. Rather than ESI TT+900%MU and then Plus skills.
I think between 200% and 300% is what max threshold should be. :p
But good luck with that, asking someone to take down 600% to 700% of the loots natural Value Threshold on an extremely mass scale in the "hope" of reducing the value enough that it would increase trade, make reasonable cost for skill trading, and have the loot pool drop it at a means that meets that value within the community.
 
I think there is no relationship between the MU of the ESIs and the MU of the Skills. Exists not enough information for players to know the real MU of ESI. Because apparently it is very overvalued. Because ESIs cost more than the recovery value of skills. In this way the skills are not worth anything at present. Another possibility is that ESIs would sold in TT.
 
more gating content would be nice and good. both ways imo. i can imagine that certain lowlevel area's / mobs would be good for only lower level players create certain lootpool for that area. only lower level players can enter so higher level players cant enter if MU picks up and goes camping there for 2 months.

events could be more fleshed out. instead of max level choose an instance and softcap skills and gear dps. after entering you can only compete in that catagory not like ohh bad runss i'll take another catogory.

maybe something totally insane?
actually create items that cost skills instead of gaining skills.... i dont konw if you use xxx weapon then 10% more dps but loose 0.0001 dmg hit killstrike skillpoint. ( or something )
crafting for example use xxx blueprint your succes rate increases 0.1% but you loose 0.0003 random crafting skill.

This would create a whole boom on the market and skills way more valuable maybe :)
 
Many people here have been in EU through the same period as me, i started late 2003. I never became uber skilled, i dislike grinding too much to ever hardcore hunting in EU, but i did enjoy PVP and social aspect a lot, mixed with a bit of hunting/mining now and then.

What i have experienced like everyone else is the fact, that Entropia Universe unfortunatly is nothing else today, than a pretty interface for random number generation and maximum grinding. The game is all over the place when it comes to its art and design. It used to be strange and "alien", at that time we only had calypso, and while it was not big, it had character, and tons of it. The gear you managed to obtain or buy was YOURS, nothing was limited, if you had obtained a item through saving and hard work, you really did manage to own something everyone else had to work for to equally posses.

Through the process of new graphic engines, new planets and total overhaul, the game turned away from its core strengths which was immersion of being on a hostile, strange planet with most often an ambition to reach the status and level of the ubers you saw in town.

The world of Entropia today is artisticly a big miss or hit, but ultimo i think that there's very few areas that come close to immerse like the PE days, also combat have become worse, with a focus on eating pills owning pet/rings to get a invisible buff, the combat is as lazy as ever, everything is more automated than its ever been. and people are now avoiding like the plague to become skilled and "uber" because the game only have 1 goal anymore, that is to prepare your avatar for event participation, there's no adventure back because Mindark lost focus many years ago.

Entropia started out to be a innovative real economy adventure, where people seek fame and fortune, to be the best and most skilled, to own a grand armor and gun, in a world that was mysterious and strange. dang, you even had to aim yourself if you wanted to make dmg!

Today its just a grindy sit & wait for events game. And dont grind too much, you might end up with skills you dreamed to get when the game was truly something.

I hope my whining is tolerable


* Today its just a grindy sit & wait for events game *

Thats whay i almost stop to play this game and Nowdays is not much to discover like in the old tims and to do hunts outside the events its useless.
 
MA made a release stating that the frequency of drops is based on a items MU, I think we need to drastically lower the MU of Empty Skill Implants so that a larger player base can comfortably and efficiently trade skills. Rather than ESI TT+900%MU and then Plus skills.
I think between 200% and 300% is what max threshold should be. :p
But good luck with that, asking someone to take down 600% to 700% of the loots natural Value Threshold on an extremely mass scale in the "hope" of reducing the value enough that it would increase trade, make reasonable cost for skill trading, and have the loot pool drop it at a means that meets that value within the community.

:lolup: MA do not decide mu, but the players.
 
:lolup: MA do not decide mu, but the players.


I just think if MA puts in 2000 of Imp MK 2 what will happend then its same with the skills they become cheap for MA put in faster skilling and L-Items and no need to have lvl 100 on tools and so on so the MU is not only what the players decide.:ahh:
 
Interesting....can you link to this release statement?

It was a about 3-5 months before loot 2.0, or around that time, I don't remember. But I will try and find it and post a link here.

Aside from that, Lower the cost of ESI's/ Skills, the more people will buy skills, which means the less people will just give skills away. I mean, people might assume otherwise, but it means a increase in sales, of which means a increase in initiative to see a reason to try and sell instead of give away. Usually ubers don't intend to buy their skills back.

I don't know if I am going to be able to find it though, it was titled in way with a word not very often used, it was addressed as developers notes and I think it mentioned that players would not be able to source it in the search system as it was being posted as a developers note without a developers note title because it was actually a state of address of which was to be recognized as all ready publicly known and because it is documented under a specific file without that name that players would not be able to efficiency source the document in the future/ over time as more content is released.
And If it is noted in the Latest Buzz, I can't seem to figure out how to backtrace latest buzz.
There is a lot of talk in the Loot 2.0 descriptions talking about how loot % is determined, such as efficiency dosn't determine a higher loot chance, it determines your chance of looting a rare/new items. But it doesn't indicate what decides a items value. So I think that the "obvious" indicator is that a items value in mob drops is determined based on its TT+MU, not it's TT, and that the loots are attempted to evaluate based on a MU history/ trade history to better evenly distribute loot values in loot drops. I mean, this is what I recollect, if I can't source where I found this information then I assume people won't believe me, but I think it is supposed to be common knowledge...
 
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People give away skills because they aren't worth much,they are not in demand so they risk of paying for ESI and getting stuck with the chip. There are to many reasons why skills MU are the way they are so I won't bother listing them because most people should know the reasons anyway.
 
I dont quite understand the counter argument to cheaper ESI meaning higher values for skills. Could someone with that opinion explain that again for me?

Because I think skills are just too expensive to buy right now so few people do it. 1000%ish is just too much for most skills. Even if the skills are free, 900% for the ESI alone is too much for most skills (in my opinion) so I would think that ESI for TT would mean more demand and thus more value for the actual skills.
If ESI were TT-priced and Handgun skills then have 400% MU, wouldnt that mean the price of handgun skills just increased? Now you give em away for free, with ESI in TTs you'd make 300Ped for every 100PED TT-ESI you chip out?


Regards
Thark
 
I dont quite understand the counter argument to cheaper ESI meaning higher values for skills. Could someone with that opinion explain that again for me?

Because I think skills are just too expensive to buy right now so few people do it. 1000%ish is just too much for most skills. Even if the skills are free, 900% for the ESI alone is too much for most skills (in my opinion) so I would think that ESI for TT would mean more demand and thus more value for the actual skills.
If ESI were TT-priced and Handgun skills then have 400% MU, wouldnt that mean the price of handgun skills just increased? Now you give em away for free, with ESI in TTs you'd make 300Ped for every 100PED TT-ESI you chip out?


Regards
Thark

Are you creating a price based on something that is entirely theory and saying that it will be more expensive based on the theoretical price you just assigned?
 
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