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Optimal Loot

Another feature of Loot 2.0 that has sparked lots of discussion and speculation is Optimal Loot.

It is important to note that Optimal Loot only affects loot composition (what you loot), not the loot value (how much you loot). There is no Optimal Loot penalty for hunting creatures that are well below your avatar’s level; in fact most such kills will meet the requirements for Optimal Loot composition.

To best achieve Optimal Loot:

Be sure to have the Hit Ability and Damage profession requirements maxed (10.0/10.0) on the weapon your avatar is using.
Avoid over-amping (using a weapon amplifier that adds more than 50% of the maximum damage of the weapon to which it is equipped).
Minimize healing costs and the need to interrupt damage dealing to heal.
In general, the lower the cost to kill a creature, the higher the proportion of loot composition will be Optimal Loot. There is no inherent “kill timer” for each creature; Optimal Loot is calculated based on costs, not on time.
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https://www.entropiauniverse.com/bu.../Developer-Notes--12---Loot-2.0-Follow-Up.xml
 
Slyk said:
If this is an attempt to reply to the above two (3?) posts, you're absolutely wrong.
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If people don't even want to accept the official explanation then y'all can discuss this until the cows come home. The release notes and dev notes do tend to get buried or forgotten sometimes hence I thought it useful to throw them in here. Do with it what you want or not.
 
Slyk said:
Say you had 1 person with BC-80 and 19 with Swine DLX, DPP will be so low that everyone will get 100% shrap. BC-80 shooter won't magically obtain spleen that has been overwritten on a mob basis just because they personally have high DPP.
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And the fact that ESIs do drop in this sub-optimal situation indicates that ESIs aren't part of "optimal" loot but something entirely different, so improving DPP won't increase the chance of looting them.
 
Boo Who You said:
Does Eff/DPP impact the groups (shared or teams) hunting returns?
#walloftext
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https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-on-Cost-Efficiency-Looter-Prof-not-just-Cost

San said:
If people don't even want to accept the official explanation then y'all can discuss this until the cows come home. The release notes and dev notes do tend to get buried or forgotten sometimes hence I thought it useful to throw them in here. Do with it what you want or not.
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If you did not read my post entirely, I have taken the dev notes all posted after 2.0 very seriously into consideration. I have much more experience in loot 1.0 and 2.0 than you, even having played well less time than you in 1.0. I am applying the results of my tests, those of others, logic and dev notes to draw my conclusions.
 
Svarog said:
And the fact that ESIs do drop in this sub-optimal situation indicates that ESIs aren't part of "optimal" loot but something entirely different, so improving DPP won't increase the chance of looting them.
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well, as it goes for ESI, there's chance that it drops and then there's the TT-value of the ESI...
 
DannyO said:
Impressive, hunting 2 million peds for the fen event, when did you sleep???... to cycle that amount of peds in the event time, I would have had to hunted for nearly 20 hrs a day....(4 hrs to sleep and eat) every day of the event!!!

I do take your point that every player is different, in their skills, amount of time played each day etc!
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Ever seen him go? He...doesn't sleep. Just a trail of dead mobs lol
 
dpp, efficiency, looter skills - don't fall for it and start to think they will proportionally improve your tt returns, sure it is safer to have all of them as high as possible but thats not the whole story, "its dynamic" is
 
girtsn said:
dpp, efficiency, looter skills - don't fall for it and start to think they will proportionally improve your tt returns, sure it is safer to have all of them as high as possible but thats not the whole story, "its dynamic" is
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Casino can give you 1%,2%,3% rebate, but if you bet it all on black and lose. You're screwed.
 
you guys keep forgetting that efficiency DOES NOT change the loot that wasa going to drop on that mob whatsoever.. it only increases the shrap on it to compensate for expenses in weapon armor healing etc.. so 10 people super high efficiency will get the same loot on the same mob as 10 people low efficiency. only difference being the high eff people spent less and the low eff spent more and will have greater amount of shrap added.
 
mspatterson said:
...only difference being the high eff people spent less and the low eff spent more...
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You're forgetting efficiency does not equal dpp. You can have a higher efficiency but cost more to kill than someone else with a lower efficiency:

A&P Series Mayhem LP-40, Perfected - 3.449 dpp, efficiency 91
A&P Series Mayhem LP-100, Modified - 3.652 dpp, efficiency 84
 
Darth Revan said:
You're forgetting efficiency does not equal dpp. You can have a higher efficiency but cost more to kill than someone else with a lower efficiency:

A&P Series Mayhem LP-40, Perfected - 3.449 dpp, efficiency 91
A&P Series Mayhem LP-100, Modified - 3.652 dpp, efficiency 84
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well yeh myversion was short sweet version :) Just trying to clarify since so many are thinking backwards and think it matters what weapon you use will affect whether you get 2 eomon hides or 3 as loot.. you and everyone else will always only get 2 regardless of how or with what you killed it.. only the shrap gets increased was my point :)
 
mspatterson said:
you guys keep forgetting that efficiency DOES NOT change the loot that wasa going to drop on that mob whatsoever.. it only increases the shrap on it to compensate for expenses in weapon armor healing etc
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Where do you get that Efficiency only adds shrapnel?

The dev notes and comments reiterate the same message over and over:


But it never says anything about shrapnel. The only time shrapnel comes up in the notes is when they speak about loot composition, that is affected only by DPP.

Also, the composition of loot improves in such cases and results in a lower proportion of Shrapnel in loot
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DPP and Efficiency are not the same thing. DPP affects loot composition
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What I see is Efficiency increases the loot size before it's decided what will be the composition of the loot. After that the DPP comes into play and decides the composition. And if you are so optimal that most of your loot is decided to be, say, hides instead of shrapnel, that tiny bit added to the size by Efficiency might be just enough to fit one more hide into the loot.
 
Svarog said:
Where do you get that Efficiency only adds shrapnel?

The dev notes and comments reiterate the same message over and over:

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you just said it yourself.. MA has said multiple times.. eff does not affect loot composition..

its pretty obvious whats being added with the 2nd pile of shrap etc in every other loot. if your played low eff you can clearly see.. try out my plp-20 for a bit and see how huge your shrap piles are :)
 
im trying to find the posts.. im pretty sure it was in dev notes one of them. ive gone over it 15x I know its repeated in a few places from ma. eff does not affect loot composition.

what this mean in English is... it don't matter what you use... you have same chance for an ESI etc.
 
mspatterson said:
its pretty obvious whats being added with the 2nd pile of shrap etc in every other loot. if your played low eff you can clearly see.. try out my plp-20 for a bit and see how huge your shrap piles are :)
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Second pile of shrapnel has nothing to do neither with Efficiency nor DPP nor the avatar, it's the bonus loot that goes to everyone:

A special hunting bonus pool will be implemented that will distribute funds from various sources, including skill misses, PVP, marketing and special events, which will improve overall loot returns for all participants.
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I have plenty of that even with 65% and 80% efficiency, often global solely thanks to the bonus pile.

Shrapnel with your plp-20 comes from low DPP, not from low Efficiency.
 
Svarog said:
Second pile of shrapnel has nothing to do neither with Efficiency nor DPP nor the avatar, it's the bonus loot that goes to everyone:



I have plenty of that even with 65% and 80% efficiency, often global solely thanks to the bonus pile.

Shrapnel with your plp-20 comes from low DPP, not from low Efficiency.
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but ultimately dpp is efficiency... same as miles per gallon. of course there can be other factors contributing do the dpp but at the end of the day those are the only 2 figures that matter.

the efficiency% is just a rating on a scale that they have created because if you run the numbers 0% efficiency would still be doing damage which should be impossible.
 
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mspatterson said:
but ultimately dpp is efficiency... same as miles per gallon. of course there can be other factors contributing do the dpp but at the end of the day those are the only 2 figures that matter.

the efficiency% is just a rating on a scale that they have created because if you run the numbers 0% efficiency would still be doing damage which should be impossible.
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You didn't read my reply earlier, scroll up, Efficiency does not equal dpp.
When they created Efficiency they did scale it based on original dpp, however new weapons do not follow that same principle, hence why a higher dpp weapon can have a lower efficiency.
 
Darth Revan said:
You didn't read my reply earlier, scroll up, Efficiency does not equal dpp.
When they created Efficiency they did scale it based on original dpp, however new weapons do not follow that same principle, hence why a higher dpp weapon can have a lower efficiency.
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well im exhausted on this subject.. because no one can explain why that is because half the equation for that is in MA's hands and is based on loot. efficiency is not affected by player skills or stats but loot is affected by player skills so that efficiency number to me is meaningless completely.
 
mspatterson said:
well im exhausted on this subject.. because no one can explain why that is because half the equation for that is in MA's hands and is based on loot. efficiency is not affected by player skills or stats but loot is affected by player skills so that efficiency number to me is meaningless completely.
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Scroll up:

Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%

You think that is meaningless?
 
Darth Revan said:
Scroll up:

Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%

You think that is meaningless?
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that 0-7% is that like 20%eff weap vs 93.3% eff weap?

from MA dev notes:
https://www.entropiauniverse.com/bu.../Developer-Notes--12---Loot-2.0-Follow-Up.xml

The Efficiency parameter is not affected by avatar skills.

The largest components by far in loot value calculations are costs, such as weapon deterioration, ammo consumption, armor deterioration, healing costs, etc.

The Efficiency parameter is a relatively small component in loot calculations (no more than 7% of total loot value).

The displayed Efficiency parameter for a given weapon does not correspond to expected overall loot return.
 
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mspatterson said:
that 0-7% is that like 20%eff weap vs 93.3% eff weap?
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Yes and no, it affects up to 7%, we don't know if 7% is actually the max...perhaps its 6.8%?



mspatterson said:
The Efficiency parameter is not affected by avatar skills.
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Correct

mspatterson said:
The largest components by far in loot value calculations are costs, such as weapon deterioration, ammo consumption, armor deterioration, healing costs, etc.
The Efficiency parameter is a relatively small component in loot calculations (no more than 7% of total loot value).
Click to expand...
Self explanitory, efficiency affects up to 7% of loot return.


mspatterson said:
The displayed Efficiency parameter for a given weapon does not correspond to expected overall loot return.
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Means that if you see 50% efficiency, doesn't mean your only getting 50% tt average return, same as 91% efficiency doesn't mean you get 91% tt average return
 
For me I look at DPP (damage per pec), efficiency is a kind of smoke and mirrors stat. A high number is good, but we're not exactly sure why.

So with that in mind, I'll post a wiki list of the best weapons sorted by DPP. The level 80 FEN mace is not included as the DDP is not loaded to wiki yet.

Surely the more damage you do per pec, is the only thing that really matters.



Rick

ps: I posted this in my own thread, but could be useful for this thread too.
 
Darth Revan said:
Yes and no, it affects up to 7%, we don't know if 7% is actually the max...perhaps its 6.8%?




Correct


Self explanitory, efficiency affects up to 7% of loot return.




Means that if you see 50% efficiency, doesn't mean your only getting 50% tt average return, same as 91% efficiency doesn't mean you get 91% tt average return
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heres what it doesn't say: which affect 7% of loot return? high or low? jus cuz they named a random stats that's not actually based on efficiency " efficiency" doesn't mean higher is better tbh =p

this argument is like which is better crafting ep on quantity or condidtion
 
mspatterson said:
heres what it doesn't say: which affect 7% of loot return? high or low? jus cuz they named a random stats that's not actually based on efficiency " efficiency" doesn't mean higher is better tbh =p

this argument is like which is better crafting ep on quantity or condidtion
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Dude lets be friends and sweat some ok
 
RickEngland said:
For me I look at DPP (damage per pec), efficiency is a kind of smoke and mirrors stat. A high number is good, but we're not exactly sure why.

So with that in mind, I'll post a wiki list of the best weapons sorted by DPP. The level 80 FEN mace is not included as the DDP is not loaded to wiki yet.

Surely the more damage you do per pec, is the only thing that really matters.



Rick

ps: I posted this in my own thread, but could be useful for this thread too.
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this I agree with 100%.. dpp is your perfectly accurate efficiency. the efficiency stat if anything is some sort of bonus loot
 
Take a high eff weapon go kill 10k mobs and then take a low eff weapon and kill the same 10k mobs (not other mobs,but the same) to get an idea of how eff/dpp effects loot comp and tt returns...test something,don't dibate for ever
And also don't forget loot is dynamic :wtg:
 
mspatterson said:
heres what it doesn't say: which affect 7% of loot return?
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The difference between 0% efficiency and 100% efficiency weapon is 7% in tt return. So say an average weapon with 65% efficiency yields 2.5% more tt loot than PLP-20 with 28.8% efficiency.
 
Svarog said:
The difference between 0% efficiency and 100% efficiency weapon is 7% in tt return. So say an average weapon with 65% efficiency yields 2.5% more tt loot than PLP-20 with 28.8% efficiency.
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2.534% but only if there is linear equation. In theory it might be 0-90% efficiency change gets 0-1% loot and 90-100% efficiency change gets 1-7%. (All values are hypothetical.)
 
mspatterson said:
this I agree with 100%.. dpp is your perfectly accurate efficiency. the efficiency stat if anything is some sort of bonus loot
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I really don't get what you are talking about, they both have a different effect and it's easy to notice
 
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