Suggestion: Land Grab Improvements

Captain Jack

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Dec 28, 2010
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Today's land grab at Tukuta Plateau was the most active land grab I have ever seen. Dozens of combatants from both sides showed up in full force, even going so far as to kill a Sandking simply to pre-buff the HP of the entire team. I would call it an event of historic proportions.

Clearly PvP is something that is alive and well, and that many players are passionate about. That being said, there are a number of issues which need to be addressed. While we may disagree on how they should be addressed, I believe members of all sides of recent land grabs will agree that these are primary issues which need attention. I will list my top three as follows:

#1: Claim Timer ambiguity.
I think this drives everyone nuts.
Problem 1: When the defending society loses control of the claim, the timer ticks backward from 30 seconds to 0. At 0 it flashes for several seconds (at least 5 it seems) before allowing someone from the opposing society to claim it.
- Recommended action: Make the timer completely unambiguous. As soon as it hits 0, it can be claimed by an opposing society.
Problem 2: When the defending society has nobody on the claim, the timer starts to run down. When a member of the defending society then enters the claim area, the timer continues to count down for an unspecified period of time (3-10 seconds, it almost seems to vary) before control is regained.
Recommended action: Make this completely unambiguous. Either have a specific "control period" countdown (3 or 5 seconds) and have that control period countdown have a timer of it's own, or make it reset immediately as soon as a defending member sets foot in the claim area. There should be no ambiguity here.

#2: Identify friend or foe.
This is another big problem on all sides. When more than 10 people are in combat, the server lag is bad enough but it becomes nearly impossible to determine who is who without visually recognizing the armor of individual players. This should be corrected and it should be easier to identify friend from foe.
- Recommended action #1: All participants in land grab have their names permanently fixed over their heads for the duration of the land grab. This way you don't have to hover your mouse over a person to identify them, you can simply read their name and shoot. This will result in faster action and less downtime.
- Recommended action #2: As previously suggested in other threads, allow teams to be significantly larger (50 people seems reasonable based on recent turnouts) and make all team members appear as green dots (NOT yellow, unless you change the color of pets on the radar).

#3: Trigger assisting software.
This is a topic which has caused accusations to fly in all directions at virtually any PvP event, and there is significant evidence that it is once again a problem. I believe this is an issue which all sides of recent land grabs agree is a problem which needs to be addressed (a very select few specific offenders notwithstanding). Trigger assisting software is a software which initiates a trigger press when certain parameters are met. Historically it has been able to be done by health bars being lit, by targeting colors on armors, or more recently by the transition of color on the reticle when the cursor hovers over a target (including another player).
Why is it done? The most obvious reason is the cost. By using trigger assisting software there are no wasted shots, meaning you can use a high tier gun and never waste any PED by doing it. The second obvious reason is to improve the efficacy of combat, giving one player a distinct edge over another which would not otherwise be humanly possible.
- Recommended action #1: Remove the cost of missed shots in PvP. This would allow players to use guns more freely without having to worry about waste on missed shots. This is already the case with all melee weapons, and thus I believe would be reasonable to implement with ranged as well. While this does not eliminate the inhuman edge vs other players, it does level the playing field financially.
- Recommended action #2: Take reports of trigger assisting software abuse seriously. Conduct investigations to include careful observation of those avatars in future PvP events. No human should be able to achieve a 100% hit rate, and therefor this should be relatively easy to spot.
- Recommended action #3: (Last resort) Bring back the the "interact" function which previously allowed players to fire only when a valid target was under the reticle. This is not ideal, as it takes away a great deal of the sport of PvP, but it would level the playing field making everyone have access to the same "feature".
 
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IMO, LG is just a mess and needs a complete overhaul, maybe even a battle royal style.
 
"healing diminishes when moving" needs to get fixed.
i can make a 100 clips of me standing still and not getting a full heal.
 
there are so many peds used in this type of small event , L guns that help economy , all kind of pills , armors and so on will be a shame if MA doesn't improve the LG system

Most broken thing at LG imo have to be med stim pills (hope they can do something about those).
 
#2: Identify friend or foe.
This is another big problem on all sides....

Everyones name showing all the time would prob create even more lagg, I did however sent a supportcase a week back suggestion that names should fade out over 2-3 seconds, font/size should also be adjustable. I did not get the standard "copy & paste awnser" so hopefully they are actually looking into it.


"healing diminishes when moving" needs to get fixed.
i can make a 100 clips of me standing still and not getting a full heal.

Same here, something is deffinently off for movent trigger.

Alina
there are so many peds used in this type of small event , L guns that help economy , all kind of pills , armors and so on will be a shame if MA doesn't improve the LG system

Couldnt agree more, more development focus on PVP would benefit the game as whole.
 
Nowadays, when you are good at pvp that mean you use cheat. I desagree with that, just because i have over 90% hit rate most of the time and 100% sometime if i don't have lag, many player say i use something.
The only thing i use is my brain. I know how the game works and i'm smart that all.
But yeah, if lg have to change, remove medi stim at the first place, they are pretty annoying and destroy the fun
 
#1
Takuta is PACKED with spiders. Despawning all of them when LG starts would probably do wonders for the lag.

#2
Alot easier for MA to hand out some time expiring "glowstick" or something that makes avatars glow in different colors. One side claim 1 color, other side claim another.
Just put it on some useless cloth-slot and voila. Kill everyone not glowing your color. Just make sure that once a color is claimed it'll get locked until the end of the LG so opposing sides cant "infiltrate". Or just make it craftable and hope people are honorable in picking colors idc.

#3
Combating bots is a problem for any game/mmo. Mammoth companies are struggling with it draining alot of resources. There is no easy fix. Botters will adapt. Only saving grace would be perhaps to put an employee to inspect all reported avatars and ban them and hopefully people will stop cheating once people start getting banned.
Right now there seems to be no punishment for cheating.

PVP is a real drive for the economy and could be even more so. Alot of games live off of having a healthy pvp community.

All that being said: Good luck getting MA to focus on PVP.
 
I participated yesterday and think I shot as many friends as I did foes. The settings for making targets easily identifiable IMO is one of the first things that needs to be fixed. Medistims are for sure a problem too as I saw people just standing on the claim marker and taking all the damage without their HP ever moving.

All in all it was a fun time but the system is broken like so many others have stated. Please fix it MA.
 
As someone who was in our Jr soc for years of land grabs I can really understand the frustration of finding the Right targets! Hard to fight when everyone is red. ?

As far as aim bots or whatever else they are called, I find it pretty offensive in all games. Personally I have never used anything nor will I. Also I don’t know of anyone using them but what I do know is that most everyone knows the cheap and easy way to mostly defeat the bot (or at least slowing it down) and once that is done it’s pretty clear who MIGHT be using them.

All that aside, props to cB for waking up land grab and making it fun and interesting again.

Buck
 
Soc mate just suggested this (Rubes), best idea I've heard in a long time, CAPTURE THE FLAG! Like the good ol days of gaming, there was an arena map with a flag in the middle, whoever held the flag longest with X amount of time wins the LG. No mobs, soc or team colors are a must! Would actually make LG a blast!
 
- Recommended action #2: Take reports of trigger assisting software abuse seriously. Conduct investigations to include careful observation of those avatars in future PvP events. No human should be able to achieve a 100% hit rate, and therefor this should be relatively easy to spot.
- Recommended action #3: (Last resort) Bring back the the "interact" function which previously allowed players to fire only when a valid target was under the reticle. This is not ideal, as it takes away a great deal of the sport of PvP, but it would level the playing field making everyone have access to the same "feature".

First of all, don't ever put a method of trigger botting on the forum again, you will just create more. Send it in support case if you think you've figured something out.

Do NOT take reports of trigger botting seriously, because you have some idiot accusing virtually everyone who kills him of trigger botting. He is a conspiracy theorist and a sore loser. I watched a stream of the last LG and some of the bullshit he is spreading is ridiculous (you can stop wearing the PoE, it does nothing).

All this and you want to bring back "interact"? Fuck no.

Very on board with the team size thing though.
 
Do NOT take reports of trigger botting seriously, because you have some idiot accusing virtually everyone who kills him of trigger botting....

I do not rely on reports from single individuals. I have had first person experience with one specific individual who normally does not have even close to 100% hit rate, and at recent LGs suddenly transitioned to 100% hit rate in more than four bouts of combat with me personally. This was only corroborated by (more than one) others stating they experienced the same thing in each bout of combat.

Regarding interact, I much prefer the playing field to be equal than to have a few unequal players tipping the scales one way or another dishonestly.
 
I do not rely on reports from single individuals. I have had first person experience with one specific individual who normally does not have even close to 100% hit rate, and at recent LGs suddenly transitioned to 100% hit rate in more than four bouts of combat with me personally. This was only corroborated by (more than one) others stating they experienced the same thing in each bout of combat.

Regarding interact, I much prefer the playing field to be equal than to have a few unequal players tipping the scales one way or another dishonestly.

I've seen too many people pointing fingers, making accusations, sometimes definitely false, for years since I started doing LG's in like 2007. In my experience there is almost never either side totally clean. Yet one side tries to think they are clean while portraying the other side as dirty. Not directing this at you, Jack, just in general.

And it's always when one side starts losing they start bringing up stuff like trigger bots and medistims. Medistims weren't a problem until Payn Inc started using them more and won, huh? Not a problem when Messi was gulping them down.

Get rid of medistims, doesn't matter, don't care.
 
I've seen too many people pointing fingers, making accusations, sometimes definitely false, for years since I started doing LG's in like 2007. In my experience there is almost never either side totally clean. Yet one side tries to think they are clean while portraying the other side as dirty. Not directing this at you, Jack, just in general.

And it's always when one side starts losing they start bringing up stuff like trigger bots and medistims. Medistims weren't a problem until Payn Inc started using them more and won, huh? Not a problem when Messi was gulping them down.

Get rid of medistims, doesn't matter, don't care.

There is always personal bias involved in anybody pointing out problems with competitions. This is why I intentionally waited for us to have a significant loss (one in which the majority if our key players participated) before creating this thread - I wanted to ensure I understood both sides of the coin before making significant propositions for change.

I am well aware of the significant bias and pointing of fingers of opposing sides throughout history. I attempted to be as objective as possible and create suggestions which would be beneficial to both sides. I collaborated with members of Payn Inc in the development of my suggestions, as I believe that all stake holders should be on the same page for real change to be made.

From the beginning I have stated that our participation was in direct response to some MindArk official statements, and that my objective in promoting and coordinating land grabs is to demonstrate to MindArk that PvP is not a lost cause. I want to show them that there are many interested players and I believe we have done that. The most recent land grab at Tukuta Plateau had the highest turnout I have seen in over a decade, and with the total expenditure probably being in the tens of thousands of PED, this is something MindArk should take seriously as something which can provide them with significant income. I hope that our societies can continue to clash on the land grab field, yet unite in our efforts to improve PvP. Your input is valuable, and I would appreciate hearing your top three priorities for improvement as well (preferably in a well detailed separate thread which I can then support and refer MindArk to for improvements).
 
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First of all, don't ever put a method of trigger botting on the forum again, you will just create more...
Do NOT take reports of trigger botting seriously, because you have some idiot accusing virtually everyone who kills him of trigger botting. He is a conspiracy theorist and a sore loser. (you can stop wearing the PoE, it does nothing).

yes i wear hunting armor cuz im not so concerned with the weak players in your soc.

your entire society USED aim assist, did you forget select target?
99% of you guys were using it, what, you grew a conscience all of the sudden once they removed select target?? and now you're a fair player? i dont buy it.
 
yes i wear hunting armor cuz im not so concerned with the weak players in your soc.

your entire society USED aim assist, did you forget select target?
99% of you guys were using it, what, you grew a conscience all of the sudden once they removed select target?? and now you're a fair player? i dont buy it.

Your buddy who does the streaming said you wear the PoE because you believe it messes up the "trigger bots".

You accuse absolutely everyone who kills you of botting. But only one side is using it... right. You're just a sore loser. Seriously, seek help.
 
Your buddy who does the streaming said you wear the PoE because you believe it messes up the "trigger bots".

You accuse absolutely everyone who kills you of botting. But only one side is using it... right. You're just a sore loser. Seriously, seek help.

you're not denying using bots.
you seem to be well aware of how bots work (coincidence?)
you dont realize PotE is the only armor i own.
you never believe a word i say but you believe others ( look above at big font)
you complete ignored my comment about select target and how you have no issues using aim assist. (am i wrong for calling you a cheater here?)
you are dog-poop 1vs1 in pvp (even with your pvp gear)
and i have all the right to suspect most of you of cheating, when that's all you have shown me in the past.
name calling.. that fake concern about my well being.. you're trying deflect from the FACT you guys were always cheaters.

can stop replying @ me, cheating loser.
 
yes i wear hunting armor cuz im not so concerned with the weak players in your soc.

your entire society USED aim assist, did you forget select target?
99% of you guys were using it, what, you grew a conscience all of the sudden once they removed select target?? and now you're a fair player? i dont buy it.

Yes, Select Target. I do remember that.

Cerberis 100%-pvp-hit

select_target_sc1.jpg


select_target_sc.jpg


EU 15.9.3 Release Notes

So after over 2 years of the "feature" and literally almost every PKer using it. I mean, if someone reports something that is giving advantage to pkers in lootable pk zones etc you'd think they'd put more emphasis on fixing it sooner, but it took them over 2 years. These are 2 of several support cases submitted by me and there's definitely many others submitted by my past and present soc mates, regardless of your beliefs. Nobody wanted select target in the game and your delusional if you think all of your WSS comrades were innocent.

But, what you're accusing is not a "feature" in game. You can see in my 2nd support case Hank says select target was a grey area since it was available IN the game. This is not the same as using a third party program to trigger bot. Get it through your head.

This is now more than 3 years old. It's time to move on and collectively join our heads to try and get LG and PvP fixed...
 
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you're not denying using bots.
you seem to be well aware of how bots work (coincidence?)
you dont realize PotE is the only armor i own.
you never believe a word i say but you believe others ( look above at big font)
you complete ignored my comment about select target and how you have no issues using aim assist. (am i wrong for calling you a cheater here?)
you are dog-poop 1vs1 in pvp (even with your pvp gear)
and i have all the right to suspect most of you of cheating, when that's all you have shown me in the past.
name calling.. that fake concern about my well being.. you're trying deflect from the FACT you guys were always cheaters.

can stop replying @ me, cheating loser.

Yes, I am now ignoring your repeated accusations for the millionth time. All you do is point fingers at the other side and never even consider some on your side may be (are) doing the same thing. It's all one society and no one else, you are the good guys and we are evil. Complete bullshit. This is the problem I have with you.
 
Was fun at LG today even though we lost.

But from what I can see my :twocents:

-Remove safezone from claim to prevent camping just to run out before it resets.

-Disable medistims or something.

-And ofc fix healing diminished.. :tiphat:
 
Was fun at LG today even though we lost.

But from what I can see my :twocents:

-Remove safezone from claim to prevent camping just to run out before it resets.

-Disable medistims or something.

-And ofc fix healing diminished.. :tiphat:

They should move safe zone not remove it. Can make it a glass wall behind the north side of claim and you need to run around to get to claim or use a tp or something.

Medistims are fine imo. Let's people compete who usually can't. Teamwork can drop anyone.

Healing diminished ? You really want perfected hedoc fappers running around on claim and never dying?

My 2 cents of course
 
I dont get it!

Some guys here think medistims gives an unfair advantage to your enemy??? Use them yourself advantage gone.
Some guys here think next target gives and unfair advantage to your enemy??? Use it yourself advantage gone.

The mentioned triggerbots, not necessary bots at all, there is gamermouse which have that as a function, so its just better hardware. Improve your hardware buy a good gamer mouse, advantage gone.

Healing diminished by moving a problem, well enemy has the same problem. Where is it an disadvantage? Even if it is fixed, nothing changed if you ask me. Better faps simply heal more. This one could be seen as an disadvantage of FAPs vs medistims, true, but what keeps you from using medistims yourself?

Most things are simple gamemechanics that are in place and good PKers should know how gamemechanics work and is free to use it all themselfs.
 
Healing diminished ? You really want perfected hedoc fappers running around on claim and never dying?

I dont get it!
Healing diminished by moving a problem, well enemy has the same problem. Where is it an disadvantage?

I belive the healing diminished mentioned in this thread is not about that it actually exists at all (which it should) but rather that at LG it sometimes randomly buggs out a lot (prob due to server lag) and gives healing diminished even when you stand still and is not moving. Sure your oponents randomly have this as well, but as soon as you are the underdog 1 vs 2+ you suffer more from it then them.

But I supose this comes down to server stability just as many other issues at LG, for exampel the random revive bug where you revive but get stuck frozen at the death location and have to relog, very anoying.

Regarding Medistims, leave them be, but perhaps a penalty in longer revive countdown if you die with Medistim active so that they should be used with a bit more care.

Personal I think the most pressing issue to be adressed is player identification, make names fade out over a period of 2-3 seconds after you hover your cursor/aim on an avatar, also pherhaps a bit bigger/bolder font.
"Show damage on target" is a changeable option both with on/off and size of the text, a simular implementation regarding player names shouldnt be to complicated.

Second, make some more incentive for people to engage in PVP/LG, Taukuta is prob. the only LG that gives any ROI back for your buck, unless one conquer it unchalanged with out any fighting worth mentioning. I have no problem paying for entertainment, but if noone else is...

Also, regardless of Society belonging, big thanks to everyone thats shows up at the LG's and contributing to the little PVP action this game has to offer. We can all just hope MA listens and give this part of the game some lööve. :cool:
 
I dont get it!

Some guys here think medistims gives an unfair advantage to your enemy??? Use them yourself advantage gone.
Some guys here think next target gives and unfair advantage to your enemy??? Use it yourself advantage gone.

The mentioned triggerbots, not necessary bots at all, there is gamermouse which have that as a function, so its just better hardware. Improve your hardware buy a good gamer mouse, advantage gone.

Healing diminished by moving a problem, well enemy has the same problem. Where is it an disadvantage? Even if it is fixed, nothing changed if you ask me. Better faps simply heal more. This one could be seen as an disadvantage of FAPs vs medistims, true, but what keeps you from using medistims yourself?

Most things are simple gamemechanics that are in place and good PKers should know how gamemechanics work and is free to use it all themselfs.

There is no “feature” in game that allows players to hit 100% on target currently. No select target, next target, lock target, or interact spam. The bots accused would be 3rd party programs which read the screen and fire when a certain parameter is met whatever that may be. AFAIK these are just accusations however it would be good to get some sort of anti-cheat method in game.

The healing diminished bug does affect everyone but it’s still frustrating to die when a full heal otherwise would have saved you.
 
btw anyone stream land grab today love to see some fights :yup:
 
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