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  1. #1
    Elite True Juan's Avatar
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    Why doesn't MA have competition?

    Hi guys,

    Does anyone have better knowledge of why Mindark does not have competition in the RCE field?
    Is it because its hard, not very profitable or do they have some very strong patents that protect them?

    Because for me its rather interesting that no one stepped up to compete.

    Regards,
    True

  2. #2
    Mutated mastermesh's Avatar
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    In a short time, not too long ago Diablo 3 had a real money auction... but it did not last for many reasons.

    Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii also had an online mode at one point in time that allowed some level of trading I believe, but they shut the blasted server down...

    There's probably a few other examples out there too. It's not that other's aren't trying. It's more that the game industry itself doesn't seem to like the idea of pay to win instantly if you have enough cash, etc., and even if it does, the laws are getting tighter on stuff like loot boxes, considering games of chance as gambling or addiction creating stuff created for those too young, etc.

    Also doesn't help that some are now considering too much gaming a disorder...

    https://www.healthcareitnews.com/new...11-not-so-fast
    Last edited by mastermesh; 06-13-2019 at 09:22.

  3. #3
    Provider slartybartfass's Avatar
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    I do not know about patents, but with some investigation it should be possible to dig this out, I think at least it is public available if a company has some patents.

    I think the main reason is the advantage developing an MMORPG with real cash economy since 2004(?). Thats at least 15 years of experience in successful developing (laugh or not).
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    There are a lot of issues to deal with, you can't just give people a running credit, that wold involve holding peoples money in trust and you'd need various credit licences for that in each country.

    If you sell, and offer to buy back, you have to deal with anti-money-laundering rules in various countries which is equally as stringent as a credit licence.

    If you facilitate trading between different players, you end up becoming somewhat responsible for fraud, eg playerA buys something from playerB then has the bank reverse the transaction, clearly you can ban playerA but who is going to compensate playerB.

    While it's a very desirable model for in general older players, we are a small market, and while the subscription and micro-transaction models prove both popular and profitable why risk the RCE model?

  5. #5
    Elite True Juan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slartybartfass View Post
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    I do not know about patents, but with some investigation it should be possible to dig this out, I think at least it is public available if a company has some patents.

    I think the main reason is the advantage developing an MMORPG with real cash economy since 2004(?). Thats at least 15 years of experience in successful developing (laugh or not).
    There is this thread regarding the patents:
    http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/fo...indark-patents

    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum_42 View Post
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    There are a lot of issues to deal with, you can't just give people a running credit, that wold involve holding peoples money in trust and you'd need various credit licences for that in each country.

    If you sell, and offer to buy back, you have to deal with anti-money-laundering rules in various countries which is equally as stringent as a credit licence.

    If you facilitate trading between different players, you end up becoming somewhat responsible for fraud, eg playerA buys something from playerB then has the bank reverse the transaction, clearly you can ban playerA but who is going to compensate playerB.

    While it's a very desirable model for in general older players, we are a small market, and while the subscription and micro-transaction models prove both popular and profitable why risk the RCE model?
    Yeah, what you state could very well be the case of why. Good thoughts.
    But if MA could do it, Im pretty sure there is someone out there that could do it better. And since MA would be the only competition I would think it would be easier to enter the market. (I have a company and have 25 competitors, makes it very hard to stand-out, having only 1 competitor would make my life so much easier )

  6. #6
    Old ihazbackup's Avatar
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    1. Making an RCE MMO is 5-6x harder than normal MMOs, especially in balancing, payouts, returns, etc.
    2. Nobody invests in MMOs anymore since it's a high-risk investment. See those new crowdfunded MMOs nowadays
    3. Needs higher security, licenses for holding money (e.g. Stock brokers, gambling sites), and more regulations than normal MMOs
    4. Cost of playing RCE MMOs is considerably higher than even the most expensive subscription-based MMO.
    5. Significantly more scammers/hackers/beggars in RCE MMOs = See pt. 3
    6. You can rule out Asian countries as audience for RCE MMOs (basically half of the world). Even sub-based MMOs aren't known to have a lot of players from Asian countries (except probably WoW), but this is the same thing that happens to EU. The problem is, you are now competing with EU for an already niche audience.
    7. Let's face it, middle class is disappearing. Ppl below middle class would prefer free or at least B2P MMOs. The "poor is getting poorer, riches are getting richer"


    Edit: Added more starting from the 6th
    Last edited by ihazbackup; 06-13-2019 at 10:04.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Juan View Post
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    ... or do they have some very strong patents that protect them?
    If I recall correctly, MAs rce core Patent (there is just one) stands until 2021

  8. #8
    Elite True Juan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihazbackup View Post
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    1. Making an RCE MMO is 5-6x harder than normal MMOs, especially in balancing, payouts, returns, etc.
    2. Nobody invests in MMOs anymore since it's a high-risk investment. See those new crowdfunded MMOs nowadays
    3. Needs higher security, licenses for holding money (e.g. Stock brokers, gambling sites), and more regulations than normal MMOs
    4. Cost of playing RCE MMOs is considerably higher than even the most expensive subscription-based MMO.
    5. Significantly more scammers/hackers/beggars in RCE MMOs = See pt. 3
    Thanks for contributing with interesting thoughts, If I may, I would add my thoughts to each of your points:

    1. When MA started MMOs were not as easy to make as today. Today there are more programmers, designers etc I guess the most time would be spend on balancing, but in terms of game systems, not as much or maybe even less.

    2. This I would agree with, but there are so many high-risk investments today... (nearly in any field - and there are people that do have loads of money to play around)

    3. Nothing to add to this point

    4. Just because PE/EU/MA made it that way, doesnt necessarly mean the competitor has to do the same. It just requires good ideas on how it should work. (EU is already EU and it would be hard to change, but a new competitor could set new rules and ways of systems to work).

    5. There are always cheaters, beggars, in every field(business), so thats not something that I would consider a hurdle

  9. #9
    Dominant pechunter's Avatar
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    Pretty sure EVE online is rce!? and i vaguely recalling Project Ion was ment to be a RCE game.

  10. #10
    Old ihazbackup's Avatar
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    When MA started MMOs were not as easy to make as today. Today there are more programmers, designers etc I guess the most time would be spend on balancing, but in terms of game systems, not as much or maybe even less.
    In normal MMOs, a mistake in coding of accidentally giving higher loots than they are intended to is a small problem, cuz it's virtual money not backed by real life money. That mistake in RCE MMOs will cost the company a whole lot more. That's why devs in EU are very quick to resolve bugs/errors that may potentially cost them money. Game systems are a lot easier to develop, I agree.

    This I would agree with, but there are so many high-risk investments today... (nearly in any field - and there are people that do have loads of money to play around)
    The returns of investing in MMOs are not comparable to the cost, unlike, let's say high-risk stocks. If you buy a high-risk stock, you can either win big or lose big. Investing in MMOs cost probably the same, but you cannot win big. U either lose or gain normal return.

    Just because PE/EU/MA made it that way, doesnt necessarly mean the competitor has to do the same. It just requires good ideas on how it should work. (EU is already EU and it would be hard to change, but a new competitor could set new rules and ways of systems to work).
    There needs to be a fine line between the cost of play and the company actually making enough profit for them to keep running. I can agree with this, in that new competitor might get to a finer line (i.e. cheaper and more cost-effective), but again, Pt. 1, 2, and 3 are already enough to turn off most companies

    There are always cheaters, beggars, in every field(business), so thats not something that I would consider a hurdle
    The effect is magnified several times greater in RCE MMOs.

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