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  1. #21
    Old Alpha Detritus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihazbackup View Post
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    it becomes

    Money spent = Money return + Fun + Fee

    This "Fun" in the 2nd equation is arguably the one variable that justify the less-than-100% return. Obviously, there are some ppl, in which the equation proved in favor on the right side, and another group of people that lose more than what they gain. In total, the "Money Spent" - "Fee" is the averaged "90% return". This "Fee" cannot be easily hidden like the 1st equation, since now we have "Money Return" as the gain, so we view "Fee" also as losses.
    Yea, totally agree.

    Problem is Fun is usually created by the things I commented on (reward factor), which must be necessarily less than the player's input in an RCE.

    Therefore, to maintain players, the Money Return part of your equation must be greater than the Money Spent, to make up for the lack of Fun. Ofc MA can't give back more than what is put in, so the end result is something that mimics real life, where a small handful of people with a lot of resources have worked out how to profit off the majority. In that regard, MA has done a standup job of simulating a real economy experience.
    Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it. - Terry Pratchett

  2. #22
    Elite Bones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svarog View Post
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    It never had withdrawals, only a promise of it in future, so never was an RCE.
    true true .. have to admit it was enjoyable though , wished it would have worked out
    Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.

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  3. #23
    Elite wizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detritus View Post
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    Yea, totally agree.

    Problem is Fun is usually created by the things I commented on (reward factor), which must be necessarily less than the player's input in an RCE.

    Therefore, to maintain players, the Money Return part of your equation must be greater than the Money Spent, to make up for the lack of Fun. Ofc MA can't give back more than what is put in, so the end result is something that mimics real life, where a small handful of people with a lot of resources have worked out how to profit off the majority. In that regard, MA has done a standup job of simulating a real economy experience.
    why are -for example- casino's doing so well?
    Are they all giving out more cash than they get in?


  4. #24
    Old Alpha K_rupT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechunter View Post
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    Pretty sure EVE online is rce!? and i vaguely recalling Project Ion was ment to be a RCE game.

    I Know P-Ion is Depo in but no Withdraw out , Eve may be the same , and other than that , Blackmarket would be only form of Withdraw out

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by True Juan View Post
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    Hi guys,

    Does anyone have better knowledge of why Mindark does not have competition in the RCE field?
    Is it because its hard, not very profitable or do they have some very strong patents that protect them?

    Because for me its rather interesting that no one stepped up to compete.

    Regards,
    True
    Because in ~14 years it got 5k active players?
    Because it's not very profitable - only few swedish (maybe only 1) owner(s) living above average is not something big companies are looking for.
    Because it's probably not doable on large scale, all the server side traffic - MA can't even properly handle few k players online.
    Because it's an online casino and the fact that MA gets away with creative accounting, does not mean others would.

    Because, because, because...

  6. #26
    Guardian Noorie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Juan View Post
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    Does anyone have better knowledge of why Mindark does not have competition in the RCE field?

    It's because the creators of this game are Gods

  7. #27
    Old Alpha Detritus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizz View Post
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    why are -for example- casino's doing so well?
    Are they all giving out more cash than they get in?
    A valid question. I think a lot of it has to do with transparency and audience.

    Casinos don't offer any illusion about what's happening. You are going there to gamble money. Unless you are retarded you already know ahead of time that you will lose it in the end, in spite of momentary successes. The thrill of playing your game of choice and being on the verge of win or loss is exactly what people go there for. The free drinks, music, hospitality, and overall experience is also a huge factor. It's the "fun" that is missing from EU.

    EU offers the promise of being able to make money playing a game. I've watched some of their old ads where they talk about people making vast amounts of money and running a successful in-game business and so on. Sure, those success stories are there, but most players will end up feeling somewhat scammed by the whole thing. You end up with players that are chasing the dream and too naive to realize what's required to get there, or casual players that don't buy the illusion but just enjoy hopping in and shooting up some shit over their morning coffee.



    I also think it's a huge mistake for MA to not be utilizing other revenue streams, which would allow them to give back a little more. In particular their web shop is so woefully under-utilized it should be shown in Ted Talks as an example of how badly an online game can be managed.
    Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it. - Terry Pratchett

  8. #28
    Prowler Miles's Avatar
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    EU is a very small, niche market game and it always will be. The appeal is limited to certain types of people who like the RCE enough that games without it are not fulfilling. It's the difference between playing poker for play money, and playing poker for real money. When there is real money stakes (of any size), decisions matter in a way that is fundamentally different from just 'playing' a game.

    We have all seen what a small percentage of the EU player pool actually sticks around - the few who do connect with it. Why would any developer choose to chase such a super narrow market with such a well-established competitor when they can more easily develop a 'normal' game and have shot at massive markets? EU is successful, to the degree that it is, because it is unique. The degree to which it remains successful has to do with its ability to focus on what sets it apart.

    I remember when Afterworld was around, and the gang of believers that said was was going to replace EU, and I remember thinking at the time; Do you really want to put your RC into a RCE based in Russia? I didn't then I wouldn't now, but the point is bigger - fall all their faults, MA has a very long record of paying out withdrawals, and is based in a county known for respecting the rule of law. Much of the trust that we do have in MA is based on that long history. Sure, it could all go belly up tomorrow, but that would be far more likely to happen to a new game trying to launch and then reach the critical mass needed to sustain itself. The people who throw big money at flighty projects will pull out or move on just as quickly.

    In the end, MA has focused on a unique project and made it work, but it is such an unlikely (and limited) success that it's hard to see how or why anyone would try to replicate it.

    Peace, Miles
    "The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.
    Albert Bartlett

  9. #29
    Mature ihazbackup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detritus View Post
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    Yea, totally agree.

    Problem is Fun is usually created by the things I commented on (reward factor), which must be necessarily less than the player's input in an RCE.

    Therefore, to maintain players, the Money Return part of your equation must be greater than the Money Spent, to make up for the lack of Fun. Ofc MA can't give back more than what is put in, so the end result is something that mimics real life, where a small handful of people with a lot of resources have worked out how to profit off the majority. In that regard, MA has done a standup job of simulating a real economy experience.
    Correct.

    MA should make the game so good to justify the % amount of fun so the equation can be equal. Say, if someone got 85% tt return (let's take 5% as MA's fee and 4% from MU), then is that 6% loss is worth the fun they have?

    Some may say yes, but I believe more ppl will say they aren't. In RCE, the money gained heavily correlates with the amount of fun you got. i.e. it's always fun if you profit.

  10. #30
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