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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerham View Post
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    On L enhanced vs ul enhanced I honestly don't know. The first time I tried (3 years ago), enhancers on L were breaking at least 2x faster than on ul. Then in 2017 or 2018 something deffinitely changed, I *think* nowadays the break rate on L and ul is equal. But I only *think* so, never had the budget or the will to extensively test it.

    Another thing which I would look into is wether enhancer break rate is higher with amps, which was my initial impression and if so, if there is a relation between amp decay and break rate increase. The enunciation of the hypothesis itself implies a sample size which I can't handle (and is also above my math skills).

    Pretty much because of these two I gave up tiered up 106, also because I heavily focused on 500-700ish depth, where enhancers were seriously not making any difference, given the wide range of tools available.

    However if I ever go back to mining rares, which must have been my favourite style of mining, I would totally go with enhancers.
    Been testing without and with amps (mostly amp 2) and average break rate on enh where the same.

    This is because drops make enh break, not the return and drops stay the same with or without amps.

    EDIT : but this is the reason I need to use amp 2 all the time cause costs would be to high to cover the TT return without amps
    Last edited by LeelooM; 09-03-2019 at 10:10.
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  2. #22
    Provider Izz's Avatar
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    Gratz Leeloo !!!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofaces View Post
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    Just based on finder decay and enhancer "decay" (@180% MU) vs limited finder decay and markup, assuming you're mixing it up between ore and enmatter, a Terra 8 will be comparable or even slightly cheaper than an F-106 at the same depth. It's one of the only instances where a limited finder can eek out past a 106 w/ enhancers for anything below 700m depth. MU has come down on those Terramasters too. If you're just single dropping enmatter though, the enhanced 106 pretty much always comes out ahead due to decreased enhancer breakage.

    That said, the big question is if there's any legitimate reason to go that deep? For enmatter, my target of 750m is about as far as I go. Do you hit enough additional rare resources to make up for the extra cost at 1000m, or is the percentage similar enough compared to 800-900m average? There's some discussion on whether depth can indirectly affect hit rate in either direction too. I want to do a little testing this winter on the latter at least like we did last winter for claim respawn rates.
    Yea but if the finder got higher decay, i think that decay will return to you back with slithly higher multiplier vs a super eco finder. This statement is very hard to prove or disprove, but im trying my best to know this.

    I would like to give such a finder a long run to compare

  4. #24
    Guardian kingofaces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRock View Post
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    Yea but if the finder got higher decay, i think that decay will return to you back with slithly higher multiplier vs a super eco finder. This statement is very hard to prove or disprove, but im trying my best to know this.

    I would like to give such a finder a long run to compare
    Not to highjack Leeloo's post with mining mechanics again, but I'll bite. I still need to do another round for replication since it's been a few years now, but I actually tested this with two finders where the only difference between them was decay. Essentially, there was no statistically significant difference in TT between the two. It does look like decay isn't returned, unlike how hunting used to work before loot 2.0. It looks like it's only probes and amp decay that contribute to TT.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofaces View Post
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    Not to highjack Leeloo's post with mining mechanics again, but I'll bite. I still need to do another round for replication since it's been a few years now, but I actually tested this with two finders where the only difference between them was decay. Essentially, there was no statistically significant difference in TT between the two. It does look like decay isn't returned, unlike how hunting used to work before loot 2.0. It looks like it's only probes and amp decay that contribute to TT.
    It's ok King, I love those discussions :p

    I never believed in TT returned decay ....

    I also never believed that if you only keep dropping, with or without amps, you will get it back ... and hit a biggy....

    MA is not a charity. If mining is terrible (like now for instance) and you keep trowing and waisting your peds + use high level amps, do you really think you will get awarded for that some day?
    Compare it with EP crafting .... 99,99% you are loosing (big time)

    You can only beat this game by using decent gear, brains, lots of patience and for miners some good spots imo
    Last edited by LeelooM; 09-04-2019 at 06:02.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRock View Post
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    Yea but if the finder got higher decay, i think that decay will return to you back with slithly higher multiplier vs a super eco finder. This statement is very hard to prove or disprove, but im trying my best to know this.

    I would like to give such a finder a long run to compare
    You just want to borrow my finder

    No serious

    I'm using the most eco finder with lots of enhancers agree.
    My returns are mostly over 100+% TT returns even without multipliers cause I started to see them as extra's if mining is very good in my dual 100 drop runs.

    I cannot help it seeing my returns as mining in very good zones, at the right time, at the right resources and decay has nothing to do with it. Like some hunters try to find the right mob that gives a nice return at a certain time.

    With 100 dual drops my decay = 6,599 ped (decay finder 1,799 ped + average 6 enhancers breaking @ TT 4,8 ped) = 0,06599 ped / drop (+ the amp I use)

    If burning TT would be the case I would use a finder with very high decay or use the F-105 since that 1 has higher decay would be much easier to get multi's then.

    EDIT : remember the Where What When
    Last edited by LeelooM; 09-04-2019 at 05:13.
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  7. #27
    Provider Geronimo's Avatar
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    ho nice ! 1014 average depth!

    Big Gratz!

    do you calculate average break for 100 drop unamped single search?

    hum the answer is just above my post. forget it
    Last edited by Geronimo; 09-10-2019 at 13:54. Reason: oups !

    XXIII melchi (17925 peds) / XXIII Terrudite (18583 peds) / XXIV Vesperdite (36408 peds)
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofaces View Post
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    Just based on finder decay and enhancer "decay" (@180% MU) vs limited finder decay and markup, assuming you're mixing it up between ore and enmatter, a Terra 8 will be comparable or even slightly cheaper than an F-106 at the same depth. It's one of the only instances where a limited finder can eek out past a 106 w/ enhancers for anything below 700m depth. MU has come down on those Terramasters too. If you're just single dropping enmatter though, the enhanced 106 pretty much always comes out ahead due to decreased enhancer breakage.

    That said, the big question is if there's any legitimate reason to go that deep? For enmatter, my target of 750m is about as far as I go. Do you hit enough additional rare resources to make up for the extra cost at 1000m, or is the percentage similar enough compared to 800-900m average? There's some discussion on whether depth can indirectly affect hit rate in either direction too. I want to do a little testing this winter on the latter at least like we did last winter for claim respawn rates.
    Agree for enmatter there is no need to go that deep, I use the F-106 even without depth enhancers

    For ores, depending where I mine and if there are rares like ruga, redu, vesp I use depth enhancers. When mining for redu, in some case I get even 15% of that run in redu when using 10 depth enh + amp 2 so here its easy profit.
    Can't say if HR is better then, a lot changed (in belkar territory :p) so need to do a few more runs to see the changes.

    What does affect the outcome on every run for ores... is mostly the amp, when buying/crafting at a maximum of 104-105%. Even using amp 2 already gives me an average -5% (mainly on the NRF) on the end result ... so in most cases that goes of the profit and for now I'm back to mining without amps again to compare.
    Last edited by LeelooM; 09-12-2019 at 12:35.
    Colorer lvl 34 - Texturer lvl 31
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