Dev Notes #21 - Tiering & Enhancer System Changes

As when using a UL finder, the break rate was a lot less then when using a L finders and I suppose it's the same with weapons.

We are talking about loot 2.0 weapons, which seem to have an inflated enh decay rate (edit: decay per ped also).

With this change, would be nice to move their rate more in line with pre 2.0 weapons.
 
To add on to my previous point, the players who invested in the tiers for loot 2.0 guns are just asking for a fair playing field for the amount of peds we put in the weapons.

Someone can now tier a bc80 to the same tier as me, for a fraction of the cost it took for me to get it there. So it does seem a bit unfair doesn't it?

I think it will be too complex to find a compensation based on TT value, all depends on how
much MA keep track of.
The question is where to draw the line? Tiering a mod fap or a imk2 isn't cheap either.
Only for those who have tiered the whole way or the current owner?
If current owner "only" tiered T10, will they be able to see that or will he get compensated
for all tier levels? He paid MU for T1 to T9 but not something that can be seen directly.
My guess is they will probably not compensate for this.
 
[h=3]Dev Notes #21 - Tiering & Enhancer System Changes[/h]

Thank you MindArk for dramatically improving the balance between participants in Mayhem with these changes!
 
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While this probably affects some of my high tiered weapons negatively, I fully support the direction and it was about time something was done about the tiering costs of weapons/armors etc.

Good to see MA remove defunct process's ( tier uprade) and compensate the people. Thats a good model to follow for making systems obsolete instead of just leave and forget.

All in all good job MA. :thumbup:

Divinity
 
The changes are interesting but theres still an issue imo with enhancers. High lvl weapons get more bang for the buck out of them. And low lvl weapons like z12 etc dont even make sense to tier cuz theres not a chance in hell of looting anything to compensate for the cost of an enh breaking. Break rates should skew at least a little so low lvl items break less than high lvl items imo to make using them on small stuff feasable.

I had always thought adding extra categories of enhancers , would help the need to tier low level items.

Such as an enhancer that adds a run buff or possibly a reload.

There are many options that could be added.
 
I would like to see the break rate adjusted for UL items and not only L gear. Many people have heavily invested into UL gear, it seems like somewhat of a punishment their enh breakrate is higher. They have already had to pay for the tiers where L gear, teirs just unlock automatically.

Please don't get it twisted. Im not bitching, just pointing out a viewpoint.

I think this is one of the best moves made in a long time for the whole economy. It promotes tiering which also raises demand for tiering resources, raising mu of some mining and hunting loot.

This, or by next vu, noobs with lvl 30 will do more dps then me :laugh:
 
The enhancer consumption rate for UL gear was greatly reduced in 2014 (Dev notes #8), maybe this new change is only to balance things back so break rate is equal for everything.

Owning UL gear has other advantages and the current break rate on (L) stuff is nasty (actually makes no sense outside of events).

Disclaimer: I own and use UL gear.
 
The enhancer consumption rate for UL gear was greatly reduced in 2014 (Dev notes #8), maybe this new change is only to balance things back so break rate is equal for everything.

Owning UL gear has other advantages and the current break rate on (L) stuff is nasty (actually makes no sense outside of events).

Disclaimer: I own and use UL gear.

Exactly right, and the break rate on limited is just way too high right now, so reducing it is the right move.
 
If anyone wants to test if under the current system enhancer tt is returned in loot, just kill some punies with a tiered puny gun and when a damage enhancer breaks see if the return is much different. 3+ pec average cost to kill a puny and the enhancer is 80 pec tt.
 
I like this idea but feel bad for people who spent quite alot on tiering but love the idea of compensation.


Well done MA!
 
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Good morning

Quite a nice read and some very nice improvements and changes...although for L users, but I'm quite positive they have something coming up for unl users too...they haven't forgotten you guys.

1 step at a time.

They are trying to make things better for everyone. This is just the beginning.

Kind regards
Tees
 
Please keep insults and personal issues out of this thread, and stay on topic.

2.2 - Insults/Flaming
Personal attacks, insults, rudeness, racism, threats, name calling or unnecessarily inflammatory posts are not permitted.

2.3 - Personal Disputes
Personal issues between individuals or societies should NOT be debated in the public forum areas and are not permitted.
 
I think it will be too complex to find a compensation based on TT value, all depends on how
much MA keep track of.
The question is where to draw the line? Tiering a mod fap or a imk2 isn't cheap either.
Only for those who have tiered the whole way or the current owner?
If current owner "only" tiered T10, will they be able to see that or will he get compensated
for all tier levels? He paid MU for T1 to T9 but not something that can be seen directly.
My guess is they will probably not compensate for this.

Its easy to decide.
If you tiered up something to t10 and you sold it, you decided to sell the weapon for your price, you decided if that is including the tier up cost or not, you are done.

The actual owner should be compensated, he paid the price of the tier up cost when he purchased the high tier item.
 
Nice! :xsmile:

Been meaning to ask for a while already, wouldn't it be great if enhancer break rates on all items would be adapted to maintain a constant relation to the actual effect they have which is different for each item they are attached to. This means, extend the break rates of enhancers on e.g. a small weapon so that the tt value of the spent enhancer has the same relation to its effect as on a big weapon. The idea is to make it equally worthy tiering up a low-level item, which would further increase the market for enhancers. (I don't actually know for sure if enhancer break rates are so far constant, but it's a current working theory handed around the playerbase that therefore tiering up items with smaller effect isn't worth it.)
 
To add on to my previous point, the players who invested in the tiers for loot 2.0 guns are just asking for a fair playing field for the amount of peds we put in the weapons.

Someone can now tier a bc80 to the same tier as me, for a fraction of the cost it took for me to get it there. So it does seem a bit unfair doesn't it?

You chose to do that knowing that you wouldn't get the tier cost back if you sold the gun, and knowing that more high-dps high-efficiency would keep entering the game. You chose to do that hoping that short-term gain would outweigh the long-term loss. You got the short-term gain, and you still have the same dps and efficiency.

My tiered-up Slugstorm has been superseded by numerous new weapons since 2.0 came in. Should I be compensated for that? I don't think so.
 
player a buys gun for 20k spends 10k tiering and sells for 30k

player b buys gun for 30k, spends 5k tiering but desperate for cash so sells for 25k

player c buys gun for 25k spend 5k tiering and sells for 45k


=

player a got his costs back

player b lost peds by choice

player c made a nice profit

Why should any of these get compensated? And if these guys don't then why should anyone else?

Things change, roll with it or cash out.


edit

My tiered-up Slugstorm has been superseded by numerous new weapons since 2.0 came in. Should I be compensated for that? I don't think so.

agreed
 
You chose to do that knowing that you wouldn't get the tier cost back if you sold the gun, and knowing that more high-dps high-efficiency would keep entering the game. You chose to do that hoping that short-term gain would outweigh the long-term loss. You got the short-term gain, and you still have the same dps and efficiency.

My tiered-up Slugstorm has been superseded by numerous new weapons since 2.0 came in. Should I be compensated for that? I don't think so.

1) Sure I never expected to get ALL the tier cost back when I sold it, but I also expected tiering my weapon to be just as challenging for the other BC80 owners in terms of ped cost. But now MA essentially handed out a freebie for something I paid quite a bit for.

2) When you speak of short term gain, what I saw was a long term investment. Currently, enhancing with loot 2.0 weapons destroys any efficiency they have due to the high breakage rate versus peds cycled. So I only used it enhanced on Mayhem events. It can take 2-3 Mayhems to recoup the cost of a single tier. I've had my gun for two Mayhems total (Summer and Halloween) before they made this change, once at tier 5 in Summer and once at tier 6 in Halloween.

3) I did pay quite a bit for a BC80, probably a bit more than a tiered up slug lol.

While I'm not an idiot and I expect MA to eventually change things, often those changes are drastic and with not a lot of warning. Which means I can't plan for them, and I assume, as I think most players would, status quo stays the same. So I made some decisions on the viability of tiering my gun based on the status quo, and got hosed by MA. Now I will likely have to compete with other BC80s that were able to get their gun higher tier much more cheaply than I did mine for.

Anyways, your post over-simplifies a lot of the nuances with this VU. I think the VU isn't a bad idea. I just think it sucks that these changes tend to ride on the backs of players who dump quite a few PEDs into the game because they believe in the system and they are willing to put their money where their mouths are.

Anyways, my 2 cents.
 
Very good update, much needed
 
they believe in the system and they are willing to put their money where their mouths are.

While I don't agree with compensation I do agree with you that it's BS that changes can cause such massive losses.

That's why I don't believe in the system anymore. I cashed most peds out years back and have been playing on what was left (except for a couple of weak moments when I opened a few loot boxes).
 
While I don't agree with compensation I do agree with you that it's BS that changes can cause such massive losses.

That's why I don't believe in the system anymore. I cashed most peds out years back and have been playing on what was left (except for a couple of weak moments when I opened a few loot boxes).

Glass half full...

I prefer to look at it this way: Future changes will cause massive gains, just have to know what position to be in to take advantage.
 
Its easy to decide.
If you tiered up something to t10 and you sold it, you decided to sell the weapon for your price, you decided if that is including the tier up cost or not, you are done.

The actual owner should be compensated, he paid the price of the tier up cost when he purchased the high tier item.

Which you don't know if he did. I have no problem to sell at a lower price if it is someone I
know whos buying it, because I pay the UL stuff I buy and things I tier up with saved up
PEDs from MU of my own trades, and use ingridients from my own loot.
If I had depoed whole cost I would try to get a better price for it.

Once again, where to draw the line? High cost is quite relative. 70k might be nothing for
some while 10k is a lot for someone else.
Which item is ok to compensate and which isn't? Either all items will be compensated or non,
and that will not happen that all items will be compensated, not in PED value at least.
There is a kind of solution to it as I mentioned in an earlier post.

I don't depo unless I'm "willing" to lose it all. Others depo as an investment, at a lot higher
value, so quite understandable they get upset when losing that value due to changes,
but here is the thing with investments:
there is no guarantee it will be a positive outcome of it, it might just as well be a negative one.

As long as you don't sell the item you haven't had the loss yet. People in this situation will
probably hold on to the item longer, which means less of them are out on the market.
What happens when an item is rare on the market? Price will go up.
So the base MU value of the item will go up no matter tier level. Hopefully that will
help out at some degree, specialy if owners of certain items use them and show how
good they are in threads and posts that are not about trading. Hype it to make it popular. ;)
 
wondering

Dev Notes #21 - Tiering & Enhancer System Changes
[*]A second decimal place has been added to item Tier Levels. After the Version Update, all existing items will have a 9 added in the second decimal place. For example, an item that currently has a Tier Level of 3.9 will have a Tier Level of 3.99 after the VU.

[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.01
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.02
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.03
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.04
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.05
tier flick sound

i hope tier 0.01 increase will not showing on [system]:skill messages nor with the sound effects
but..can u make tier pop effects way bigger? not start from someone's foot from head somethin like that. jk :D

btw great updates Eve r!:smash:
 
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.01
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.02
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.03
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.04
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.05
tier flick sound

i hope tier 0.01 increase will not showing on [system]:skill messages nor with the sound effects
but..can u make tier pop effects way bigger? not start from someone's foot from head somethin like that. jk :D

btw great updates Eve r!:smash:
Good point which they probably missed :D
 
Good point which they probably missed :D

id like to see the enh break rate adjusted based on weapon dmg. Maybe by max dps instead not sure. either would be better I guess depends on how the numbers look for MA which theyd go with but either would make it better for smaller weaps.

base break rate(lets say 3000) x (100/weap max dps) = actual break rate

so a 10dps weap would have break rate of 30000
and 100dps weap would have a break rate of 3000

break rate now I believe is known to be at 2500ish

this is just rough math but you get the idea.
 
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.01
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.02
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.03
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.04
tier flick sound
[System]: Your Sollomate Azuro (L) has reached tier 0.05
tier flick sound

i hope tier 0.01 increase will not showing on [system]:skill messages nor with the sound effects
but..can u make tier pop effects way bigger? not start from someone's foot from head somethin like that. jk :D

btw great updates Eve r!:smash:

I want to see and hear every single 0.01 tier increase.
 
1) Sure I never expected to get ALL the tier cost back when I sold it, but I also expected tiering my weapon to be just as challenging for the other BC80 owners in terms of ped cost. But now MA essentially handed out a freebie for something I paid quite a bit for.

Did they though? One of the major barriers to tiering previously has been scarcity of materials. There's a reason why there is a high markup on certain tiering components. Is there anything in the OP that suggests that sourcing them will become easier? If not, then we can expect markups to rise further and the difficulty of finding the ingredients increase. Seems to me that while low tiers which require relatively common ingredients will become easier and cheaper, that isn't necessarily the case later on, even as early as tier 3. The major change seems to be that instead of those spent PEDs disappearing into MAs coffers, more of it is going to other players.

Even if is easier and cheaper, it's easier and cheaper for you to get to the next tiers and stay ahead of the game as well (you're not tier 10, right?)

2) When you speak of short term gain, what I saw was a long term investment. Currently, enhancing with loot 2.0 weapons destroys any efficiency they have due to the high breakage rate versus peds cycled. So I only used it enhanced on Mayhem events. It can take 2-3 Mayhems to recoup the cost of a single tier. I've had my gun for two Mayhems total (Summer and Halloween) before they made this change, once at tier 5 in Summer and once at tier 6 in Halloween.

Iirc you did pretty well in those Mayhems and I see no reason to believe you won't continue to do so in the next ones. There aren't suddenly going to be another 30 people overpowering you in your category.

3) I did pay quite a bit for a BC80, probably a bit more than a tiered up slug lol.

So is this about the principle, or the price? If it's about the principle, this is irrelevant. If it's about the price, where's the line? Do you have to have spent, say, 50k to be compensated, and everyone below that can forget it? 80k? 20k? If it's about price then there has to be some line, and that line will be entirely arbitrary. The whole idea is ludicrous.
 
Glass half full...

I prefer to look at it this way: Future changes will cause massive gains, just have to know what position to be in to take advantage.

And how, precisely, do you propose one acquires this knowledge?
 
  1. Enahncers TT back as shrapnel = 30% less expenses only. maybe less in future if demand and MU raises
  2. Tiering just got 50% cheaper considering that other 50% is MU. Most likely MU will raise on components as it getting more popular
  3. You have always tiered up your gear for a purpose, knowing this is the money you won't get back

Currently it seems that all the guys who have tiered their loot 2.0 weapons now somehow lost their money? It was your free will, you tiered these with a purpose and the goal isn't taken away from you, it just got cheaper. I haven't tiered my 2.0 weapon since i didn't see any point of it and wasn't willing to lose that money.

This is genius move by MA- instead of getting one time payday by tiering from selected amount of players, they can now get revenue much faster when tiering and enhancing will be more attractive :)

Best update since loot 2.0
 
Finally I can tier my Opalo!
 
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