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  1. #1
    Stalker Rocket192's Avatar
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    Petition to Remove EP4

    So did this just die?

    I'm assuming players just admitted defeat on the issue - someone should have run against ND for prez on the platform of removing these and they might have actually had a chance.

    I'm periodically returning to EU just to see the economy has decayed a few more % every few months.

  2. #2
    Prowler jambon's Avatar
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    Bad idea and will not happen. Here's why:

    EP4 and other similar "gambling" BPs are a great way to separate the gambling community from the gaming community. For many years the markup of all common resources were artificially (and unnecessarily) inflated by people looking to gamble on the crafting terminal slot machine.

    While this higher % for resources looked nice for miners it was actually hurting the economy a LOT. The main way was by holding back the proliferation of the L gear system. The limited gear system is CRITICAL for a sustainable economy that works at scale but that's a whole discussion for another day. Suffice to say the Armatrix series of gear has been a fucking GAME CHANGER for many. Highly efficient, decent supply/demand ratio, good markup for hunters and crafters alike...etc.

    Back then a system like the Armatrix series of weapons would not have been possible due to the hyper inflated costs of basic materials. The only solution would have required a complete overhaul of resources and crafting recipes across the board.

    If you actually take the time to look at the Armatrix series blueprints you can see they all use common crafting components like Hardened Clips, Simple Conductors, Standard Plates, Standard Vents, Basic Screws, Basic Structure...etc that are used in making those guns and amps. All of which heavily rely on use of common materials like Oil, Belk, Melchi, Lyst, Iron, Blau...etc.

    If all those materials went back up to 130%+ because all the people gambling using TT nanocubes are now buying those resources at any markup just to fill their need to gamble the cost of armatrix guns will shoot up to 200% and NO ONE would use them. Thereby hurting everyone.

    To anyone that knows how "economy" works (hint "economy" does not mean the markups on items, it more refers to the flow of money through the game) the game is actually doing better than ever from a sustainable economy standpoint. It's not perfect but there's been a lot of steps in the right direction for this. Yes common miners are kinda taking it up the butt right now as there is a disconnect between hit rates and the markups of common resources that hasn't been adjusted enough since these changes... However in time I suspect this will change. I think it will take time and be subtle though, part of me thinks MA doesn't want a lot of miners. If mining is too attractive people won't be hunting which is really the profession that the entire economy hinges on. There has to be substantially more hunters than any other profession for this economy to work.

    Personally, I could see a loot 2.0 coming for mining in the future to help balance mining to make it "more affordable" as has been MA's trend of motivation as of late. As well, I can see proliferation of the armatrix series into the armor realm. The hint of adding/using professional level requirements for armor really point to this as an eventuality.

    Anyways, the days of all resources having markups of 115% - 130% for things like belk are gone, you need to adapt to the new way things are as petitioning to restore the ways of old is nothing but an exercise in futility.
    Last edited by jambon; 12-07-2019 at 20:07.


    Watching The End Of The Universe Since 2010...

  3. #3
    Elite thoreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jambon View Post
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    Bad idea and will not happen. Here's why:

    Snip lots of words
    All they had to do was make new resources for EP crafting. Then normal crafting could operate without being affected.

  4. #4
    Prowler GradenFoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoreau View Post
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    All they had to do was make new resources for EP crafting. Then normal crafting could operate without being affected.
    I would assume that MA wants to assure that anyone at any given time can engage in high end crafting doing as much attempts as desired. Therefore you have to make certain that all needed resources are always available. You cannot rely on just how much hunters and miners are able to come up with and offer to the market.

    Last edited by GradenFoss; 12-08-2019 at 01:36.

  5. #5
    Stalker Rocket192's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GradenFoss View Post
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    I would assume that MA wants to assure that anyone at any given time can engage in high end crafting doing as much attempts as desired. Therefore you have to make certain that all needed resources are always available. You cannot rely on just how much hunters and miners are able to come up with and offer to the market.

    if this is the case then wanna be able to buy lvl 13 mining amps and mayhem 100 guns from the TT

  6. #6
    Prowler jambon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoreau View Post
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    All they had to do was make new resources for EP crafting. Then normal crafting could operate without being affected.
    Normal crafting WOULD be affected. And they did add a new resource... They are called nanocubes and they don't affect the markup of resources found in mining as they are from the TT. And this was the whole point - to separate these gambling activities from interacting with the markups for the rest of the system.

    If they added new mined resources that were only used in crafting EPs the markup on those resources would be very high and availability to gambling crafters 24/7 would be a serious concern. I doubt miners could keep up with the demand - do you have any clue how many hundreds of thousands of peds are burned in EP style runs each week? It's easily 100,000+ peds a day cycle. Personally I've done a 20,000-25,000 ped cycle in a single day and I'm on the very low end of run bankrolls when I want to go "hog wild" on an EP run. There's tons of people that will grind out on those for 6+ hours a day straight with back to back 500+ (10,000 peds) click runs.

    Anyways, as a result it would skew the mining profession pushing people to just mine that one resource and would inevitably push gamblers away from EPs as it would be cheaper and easier to go back to gambling on mining amps and other items with many other resources that are readily available.

    Right now being able to get the resources (nano cubes) as much as you want, any time you want, with 0 markup right from the TT is one of the biggest motivators for gamblers to keep gambling with those BPs.

    Again, the solution to increasing the economy is not to get the gamblers using mined resources again but instead to increase usage and availability of good limited gear IE armatrix style series. As more people use armatrix guns, faps, armor, amps...etc. Demand for common resources will go up and so with the markup.


    Watching The End Of The Universe Since 2010...

  7. #7
    Stalker Rocket192's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jambon View Post
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    Bad idea and will not happen. Here's why:

    Anyways, the days of all resources having markups of 115% - 130% for things like belk are gone, you need to adapt to the new way things are as petitioning to restore the ways of old is nothing but an exercise in futility.

    i refuse to subscribe to an environment that prevents even the most heavily invested/top-tiered players from profiting with the best edge available (excluding events - seems all ubers solely make income from those now)

    see, id. Sokolade


    if someone isn't winning then no one wins in the end.

  8. #8
    Stalker Rocket192's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jambon View Post
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    Normal crafting WOULD be affected. And they did add a new resource... They are called nanocubes and they don't affect the markup of resources found in mining as they are from the TT. And this was the whole point - to separate these gambling activities from interacting with the markups for the rest of the system.

    .....

    Again, the solution to increasing the economy is not to get the gamblers using mined resources again but instead to increase usage and availability of good limited gear IE armatrix style series. As more people use armatrix guns, faps, armor, amps...etc. Demand for common resources will go up and so with the markup.
    Alternate theory: MA facillitated/encouraged gambling to their benefit by creating a TT resource with endgame-level cycle speed. And they did so at the expense of the rest of hte player base and conned most players into the "loot 2.0" farce. Well-intended for sure, MA needs to make moeny, but money wouldn't be such a problem for them if they could retain players.

    Player A shows up, is excited, loves the game, depos $500, loves it more, depos $500 more again every month until lvl 50-60, understands the game, realizes there's little-to-no path to profitability without sinking several years into the game, and then leaves and MA loses that player's monthly depo

    Player B shows up, depos their lunch money, then does low level activity while shitposting in #rookie like it's a 4chan board.

    Player C created an account pre-2012, made some money, depoed a bunch, and achieved high skills not attainable in less than 2 years, depoed more, acquired the best 1 out of 3 setups to hunt in game, and then continues on making money from seasonal competitions

    Player D shows up, depos $100k, rigs auctions, creates bots, has alts for more auction posts, and serves no purpose other than to recycle UL SIB gear at a premium after low-balling "sell-out" threads.

    the only contributing player left is player C - so long as they don't get old, die, quit, do other stuff (top 0.05% of EU playerbase due to lack of gear) who accounts for most of MA's revenue and harvests money from other players through their merry mayhem donations and general degenerate cycling habits before they quit after their 3-4 month stay

    This practice is completely unsustainable on literally every single level of business and economics. only so many people in the world and only so many give a shit about MMOs and RCE


    instead of making the best with what you've got, MA is taking the quick payout to solve present problems with present solutions which lead to more issues down the road (see, calypso land deeds).
    Last edited by Rocket192; 12-08-2019 at 03:09.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jambon View Post
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    Bad idea and will not happen. Here's why:

    If all those materials went back up to 130%+ because all the people gambling using TT nanocubes are now buying those resources at any markup just to fill their need to gamble the cost of armatrix guns will shoot up to 200% and NO ONE would use them. Thereby hurting everyone.
    people might still use them if they could get more than 100.1% markup on their resources that they hunted to get... markup is so bad at this point because crafting solely relies on armatrix weapons, I basically hope I drop shrapnel instead of loot. :/

  10. #10
    Stalker Rocket192's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duhword View Post
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    people might still use them if they could get more than 100.1% markup on their resources that they hunted to get... markup is so bad at this point because crafting solely relies on armatrix weapons, I basically hope I drop shrapnel instead of loot. :/
    stop dropping guns/armor/faps in loot

    problem solved

    stop injecting more UL SIB into the economy when a shrinking playerbase can't support it


    you literally have cartels of ubers buying the next high-dps output weapons solely to keep it out of hte hands of others so their competition revenue stream continues. so just stop releasing new ones until playerbase grows

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