EF Rules Discussion

711 said:

Actually, I believe MindBuster is userid=1, so in that case, Werty would be removed

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Thats not what it says

If multiple accounts are discovered, the original (oldest) account will be permanently banned and you will be left only with the new account to participate on EF

MindBuster would be the Oldest

711 said:

Ajack, rather than making a sweeping generalization, why not give an example of a rule that you feel is unreasonable, and discuss your reasons why. This way you can stimulate a constructive conversation about the matter. As I said in the opening post, very few of these rules are set in stone, and if the majority of the EF community feels that a particular rule is unreasonable, we will strongly consider editing or removing that rule.

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711 ( I'm still looking forward to know your Game Identity) I will not go through all these rules cos I don't have time, however, I think you know where I am coming from and I have given you 2 examples you comment if you feel like it. As someone else in this thread has pointed out, simple rules like:

Be Friendly
Be constructive
Don't offend anyone
Don't use foul language

Would totally suffice. If you say the rules are not set in stone, then what's the point of having them ? You either have a rule or you don't otherwise you loose credibility. You can't apply a rule when you feel like it and not apply when you have a good day ...

On a constructive note. Make the rules, short, simple and then you can still censor when you feel like a post is seriously harming the board atmosphere.

I have run several boards myself and I am a big fan of freedom of speech. I try to keep censoring to a minimum, personal attacks and swearing I don't allow cos it's offensive. All the rest is fine and the broad community is smart ennough to keep a forum on track in general...

Rules are a control mechanism for communities that don't have a moral codex. I believe the EU community is pretty mature and is smart ennough to be sensible on an average level.

Great rules! Great work 711,MB and mods!

Clear and ease to understand!

If u dont like go elsewhere!

Kyl

Faustian said:

Thats not what it says

If multiple accounts are discovered, the original (oldest) account will be permanently banned and you will be left only with the new account to participate on EF

MindBuster would be the Oldest

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Ahh you are correct, my error. That is indeed the rule.

711

"Rule # 8
Criticism of EF administrators, moderators or MindArk representatives is NOT allowed within public areas of the forum. Public areas include: forums, member profiles, diaries, galleries, and reputation comments. If you disagree with how the forum is being moderated, please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of every forum page to contact an administrator. DO NOT open a thread, or make comments in a post, diary, profile or signature questioning or criticizing the EF administrator or moderator decisions. These types of threads/posts/comments will be edited or deleted."

So,

If I read the above, then my only recourse to some action that I feel is unfair it to contact the MOD or an administrator. Now, to carry this one step farther, what happens of I do feel that I am correct and the action done by a MOD is unfair. Then I must wait the requried number of days to get an answer, then if the answer does not adress the 'injury', I must accept the response and not say anything about the preceived 'injury'. If I chose to excercise a concept of 'free speech' basicly saying that the king is not waring his pants or the queen is not waring a dress...then I'll be banned?

Am I missing something?

DS...

Rule # 10
Posting personal real world information about a member, administrator or moderator is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Any threads and/or posts with this type of content will be edited or deleted, and may result in a temporary or permanent ban from the forum.

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lol looks like this is only here to stop ppl speculating about 711's identity

kinda a bit of a harsh set of rules imo

problems with having large rule sets is enforcing them fairly, for example when one member of ef gets away with stuff and the next dude gets a ban ppl will cry double standards (eg knuckles instant bans and mud's ability to dodge all rules lol )

the implementation of the rules is as important as the rules themselves

EntropiaForum is a privately owned forum

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with all due respect, is it? none of us know who u are, and without knowing who u are, how can we know its privatly run? (i'm not going to bang on about identity, but i hope u take this point)

its ur forum to do with as u will 711, but imo any rules must be enforce fairly accross the board

Lighterthief said:

lol looks like this is only here to stop ppl speculating about 711's identity

kinda a bit of a harsh set of rules imo

problems with having large rule sets is enforcing them fairly, for example when one member of ef gets away with stuff and the next dude gets a ban ppl will cry double standards (eg knuckles instant bans and mud's ability to dodge all rules lol )

the implementation of the rules is as important as the rules themselves



with all due respect, is it? none of us know who u are, and without knowing who u are, how can we know its privatly run? (i'm not going to bang on about identity, but i hope u take this point)

its ur forum to do with as u will 711, but imo any rules must be enforce fairly accross the board

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The privacy rule is a MUST anywhere not just on a forum like this.
If someone you talk to ingame gets you phone number or your adress and then you get in an arguement and this person desides to go post all your stuff on the forum you need a rule to provent this.

It's simple, I wouldn't want all my info in a post here and yes some people ingame do have my info.

I might be missing something here, but how will you know it is privatly owned if you knew his ingame identity ? Chances are it might not be a person you know directly ingame either so I cannot see what that info will help on your believes.
It really makes no difference at all.

/Nakia

Kyl said:

If u dont like go elsewhere!

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I think you misunderstood 711 purpose with this thread. I don't feel this is about kiss-ass'ing the new owners "new" rules. It's about improvements because it seems that "he" want's to see what the community says about the rules. Because we asked for some of the rules to be changed or looked at. Good, you like the rules - but if people do not like it, they now - in this thread - have the possibility of constructively debating them! Which we should appriciate - those of us, who like being here!

AJack10600 said:

711 ( I'm still looking forward to know your Game Identity) I will not go through all these rules cos I don't have time,

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If you have not read the rules, how can you make a sweeping statement that they are all "bullxxx"?

AJack10600 said:

As someone else in this thread has pointed out, simple rules like:

Be Friendly
Be constructive
Don't offend anyone
Don't use foul language

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I already addressed this issue in this post. Please read the entire thread.

AJack10600 said:

If you say the rules are not set in stone, then what's the point of having them ? You either have a rule or you don't otherwise you loose credibility. You can't apply a rule when you feel like it and not apply when you have a good day ...

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We will make effort to enforce the rules AS POSTED fairly and evenly for all EF members. What I meant by saying some of the rules may not be set in stone, is that we can edit the rules if the overall feeling in the community warrants such. In that case, the particular rule would be edited or removed.
But until that time, the rules are applicable to ALL members equally.

AJack10600 said:

On a constructive note. Make the rules, short, simple and then you can still censor when you feel like a post is seriously harming the board atmosphere.

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This is what existed before, and many many EF members asked for clearer and more extensive rules, so that moderation of the forum would be more transparent. This is what we have delivered.

Lykke said:

I think you misunderstood 711 purpose with this thread. I don't feel this is about kiss-ass'ing the new owners "new" rules. It's about improvements because it seems that "he" want's to see what the community says about the rules. Because we asked for some of the rules to be changed or looked at. Good, you like the rules - but if people do not like it, they now - in this thread - have the possibility of constructively debating them! Which we should appriciate - those of us, who like being here!

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nah i got it, sure

but i like rules. i like this rules. but some bitch around like little kids. maybe i choosed to hard words

Kyl said:

nah i got it, sure

but i like rules. i like this rules. but some bitch around like little kids. maybe i choosed to hard words

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NP, I just like to ...

Lykke said:

I think you misunderstood 711 purpose with this thread. I don't feel this is about kiss-ass'ing the new owners "new" rules. It's about improvements because it seems that "he" want's to see what the community says about the rules. Because we asked for some of the rules to be changed or looked at. Good, you like the rules - but if people do not like it, they now - in this thread - have the possibility of constructively debating them! Which we should appriciate - those of us, who like being here!

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I'de +rep you, but you got to many damn gold circles already

Nakia said:

The privacy rule is a MUST anywhere not just on a forum like this.
If someone you talk to ingame gets you phone number or your adress and then you get in an arguement and this person desides to go post all your stuff on the forum you need a rule to provent this.

It's simple, I wouldn't want all my info in a post here and yes some people ingame do have my info.

I might be missing something here, but how will you know it is privatly owned if you knew his ingame identity ? Chances are it might not be a person you know directly ingame either so I cannot see what that info will help on your believes.
It really makes no difference at all.

/Nakia

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I think everyone agrees with that, it's more about the ingame identity...

Don't tell me that 711 is not playing EU ...

Besides, when you run something (half) official like this, privacy is a bit unrealistic. You wanna know who runs MA right ? It's a bit similar ...

Lighterthief said:

lol looks like this is only here to stop ppl speculating about 711's identity

kinda a bit of a harsh set of rules imo

problems with having large rule sets is enforcing them fairly, for example when one member of ef gets away with stuff and the next dude gets a ban ppl will cry double standards (eg knuckles instant bans and mud's ability to dodge all rules lol )

the implementation of the rules is as important as the rules themselves

its ur forum to do with as u will 711, but imo any rules must be enforce fairly accross the board

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I agree that it is very important for the rules to be enforced fairly and evenly for ALL members. Members are encouraged to help us in this effort:

Please be aware that it is impossible for moderators and admins to read every single thread, post and diary on EF. While we try to do the best job we can to keep discussions positive, on topic and polite, we cannot be everywhere at once. We encourge members to help us in this effort by making use of the "Report Bad Post" tool (the red triangle located in the lower left corner of each post) whenever you feel a post is offensive, inappropriate or violates these rules. This will enter the offending post into the moderation queue, and will result in quicker attention from the moderators.

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For those of you that is thinking that these rules are made by 711 and he is "killing EF".. Well, this is a set of rules that the mod-team has been working on before 711 was even introduced to us.

The rules are mostly just a clearer set of rules of what we have enforced before.
Because, as some might remember, we have had a few talks about the "grey zones" within the rules. Now we hope to make the grey zones less... grey

Id love to have a list that said "be nice, have respect" and thats it! But then it would most definatly be people saying "HEY THATS NOT IN THE RULES!" when we are enforcing something.

When you ask for freedom of speech, thing a minute of what you are saying. If you want a anarchistic forum this isnt the place, but I do not belive that we hold your opinions back.
Simply, this place isnt the place to discuss all the opions you have -but discussing the EU game. Not religion, politics or other games. If you experience beeing "cencored" because of your posts or threads about EU, you should perhaps concider making it more constuctive next time.

Rule #10,
Lighterthief, is not to stop speculation about 711 identity. I think we had this in our rule-draft from before 711 stepped into the scene. Why? Because almost all of us mods and admins have had people "stalking" us and finding out info about our irl selfs that we do not wish to be published, simply because of privacy. Now, we would ofcourse(!) edit out any personal information anyone else posts about a member who does not wish this type of info out. Its a privacy issue.

#8 is something we also have enforced. Simply, if you disagree with a moderators decition, do not go ahead and make a thread about it! We have said this so many times.. PM a moderator and ask for why the decition was made, or check your inbox -you might have a mail from a mod there allready concerning it.
If you still feel you have been treated badly, PM the forum owner or a admin, and they will look at the case themself. The decition of the administrator is final, so if you havent gotten any further with a admin, then you should just swallow your pride and understand that what you did was not allowed...

only thing i want an answer to from the MODS and admins at this moment is WHY we cant say goodbye if we are quitting for whatever reason, WHY we cant talk about other games. And i want VERY good reasons as to why.

Skam..

Thank you,

You make it very clear...

Freedom of speech is "a anarchistic forum this isnt the place,..."

Not to put words in your mouth, but if I read your post correctly, it says "that we make the rules, freedom of speech is what we decide, if you disagree, then be silent....".

Am I missing something?

Please note, I don't care who 711 is. But, I did have my 'hopes' up that Freedom of Speech might start to take place here. I 'assumed' that if this forum was being hosted in the U.S. and the new owner was from the U.S., then the right to disagree might have a bit more respect. I guess I was wrong.

I agree on name calling, it does not help people trying to discuss an issue; I agree you can't yell fire in a movie theater..but I really don't understand this...you must agree with the mod or be silent...what happen to "I might not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it until death"?

Oh, Skam...a real question..

I have disagree with you in a public place. Am I in risk of having my post deleted or being banned?

DS....

Skam said:

Rule #10,
Lighterthief, is not to stop speculation about 711 identity. I think we had this in our rule-draft from before 711 stepped into the scene. Why? Because almost all of us mods and admins have had people "stalking" us and finding out info about our irl selfs that we do not wish to be published, simply because of privacy. Now, we would ofcourse(!) edit out any personal information anyone else posts about a member who does not wish this type of info out. Its a privacy issue.

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Privacy is a must nowadays!

711, dont reveal your EU name!

Rule # 15
Discussion of computer games or MMORPGs other than EntropiaUniverse is NOT allowed. Any and all such threads or posts will be deleted. Naming, making reference to, or linking to games or game websites other than EntropiaUniverse is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. All references and links of this kind will be removed, including those that appear in avatar pics, member profiles and member signatures.

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Lykke said:

This rule - not discussing other games - is also something I never understood. It should be possible to discuss other games. They are OUT there. Comparison is healthy to all parts involved - and especially EU/MA! We KNOW they are out there! We KNOW most of us are already enjoying other games than EU. Since most other games are costly with a monthly fee and EU is not - what's the problem? Maybe MA could even learn something about hearing what their community thinks about other games compared to EU? And yes, we ALL know this forum is for EU-loving people. But who say we don't love EU just because we discuss the game play in other games? As said - comparison is helthy and developing! And why not do it on a place were the EU community is sticked together anyway instead of "do it some other places"? If this forum is for the community - then make it for the community - and since they are spending so much time in here, let them be able to express themselfs about other hobbies and RL stuff than showing their pets, girlfriends (for some= hands), computers, cars, RL-issued diarys and I know what!

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Not seen a response on this yet? Lykke addresses some very good points and has saved me writing the exact same thing!! I can understand that EF is for discussing Entropia, but you are able to discuss/post about other real life stuff (Diaries) etc, but not about other games. Why not have a separate sub forum for discussing other games?

Violet said:

Not seen a response on this yet? Lykke addresses some very good points and has saved me writing the exact same thing!! I can understand that EF is for discussing Entropia, but you are able to discuss/post about other real life stuff (Diaries) etc, but not about other games. Why not have a separate sub forum for discussing other games?

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hm...why not visit the forum related to the other game?

Kyl said:

hm...why not visit the forum related to the other game?

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Why? If discussing games on EF could keep even more people in here?

Kyl said:

hm...why not visit the forum related to the other game?

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Hey uh, you bucking for Mod privledges or something? He opened this thread so that these rules could be discussed openly. Why don't you go take a nap, we'll handle it from here.

Skam said:

If you still feel you have been treated badly, PM the forum owner or a admin, and they will look at the case themself. The decition of the administrator is final, so if you havent gotten any further with a admin, then you should just swallow your pride and understand that what you did was not allowed...

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i believe most countrys now have a human rights style law in place, and one of the things paramount is the right to appeal

but here we cannot appeal a decision, we have to swallow our pride

i believe very strongly if u take a group of mature adults and treat them as children, well sooner or later they will react like children

we as posters are not the only ones who make mistakes, the mods are not superhuman and are as guilty as we are with getting swept away in the heat of the moment

i dont see any rules relating to how a mod can behave, is it acceptable for a mod to slap a perm ban on someone as they dont like the tone etc, as has happened in the past

i thought the rules were to help us and the mods, but these rules are all one sided. its all we cant post xyz. where are the rules to say whats acceptable from a mod.

EDIT: i got the mental image of a middle ages lord of the manor hanging out in his big castle looking at his minions while writing up the local laws lol

Lykke said:

Why? If discussing games on EF could keep even more people in here?

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OK but whats the advantage for this EU related forum then?

As i understand it, this forum is for EU...

More ppl who talk not about EU will (ab)use the resources for that others have donated $...

Faustian said:

Hey uh, you bucking for Mod privledges or something? He opened this thread so that these rules could be discussed openly. Why don't you go take a nap, we'll handle it from here.

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Are u a mod?

Is this an example for a personal attack?

PS. I know this is Offtopic

Lighterthief said:

i thought the rules were to help us and the mods, but these rules are all one sided. its all we cant post xyz. where are the rules to say whats acceptable from a mod.

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As stated before, if it's not listed in the rules as prohibited, then you are free to discuss it. Which means about 99.999% of anything you could possibly want to discuss can be discussed in the appropriate forum.

I personally don't like "the you may not do this or that" as i assume that we all know what common sense is, at least should. I like more the self sensorship. Adapt to the community you are in and at least try to be nice to each other.
Freedom of speach is a great thing, lots of people faught for it, i hate to see that gone on forums.
As for privacy, of course dont reveal information you got without permission. But as all private information is not allowed, then why ask for private information such as real life gender or location, as that is private information too. Aren't you breaking the rules the moment you ask for an account that way?

711 said:

As stated before, if it's not listed in the rules as prohibited, then you are free to discuss it. Which means about 99.999% of anything you could possibly want to discuss can be discussed in the appropriate forum.

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ah i was expecting rules for each side

for example a mod could temp ban but would need a admin to perm ban etc

the problem i have is interpritation, for example previously i have had a mod accuse me of making a persoanl attack on them, when it was infact them reacting badly to other situations, but following these rules as a inocent i would be banned and have to, as skam says, swallow our pride

i am not trying to have a pop, but if we need to follow the "forum code" then it would be reasonable to have a set of rules the mods must follow, especialy with some of the over enthusiastic modding we have seen recently

"As stated before, if it's not listed in the rules as prohibited, then you are free to discuss it. Which means about 99.999% of anything you could possibly want to discuss can be discussed in the appropriate forum."


One of the point I addressed as did others, is that you can not disagree with a MOD. You can not post a public reply if you think they are wrong. Therefore, 'freedom of speech' does not really exist. If a Mod or Admin, say you are wrong, then you must shut up or face a deletion of your post or a ban.

Am I missing something?

DS.

Kyl said:

hm...why not visit the forum related to the other game?

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I do

However it would also be nice to talk with players/friends from Entropia to see what other games they are playing. Ive seen this on many other game forums where friends from one type of game get together to form clans/guilds/societies in other games. They continue to pariticpate in both. Infact many times this has meant hardcore players from "the other" game taking a look at the game where these players originate from which would actually benefit Entropia

It can also be said, that rather than block a leak and wait for the pressure to build up and explode it is better to have a release valve avoiding the inevitable explosion