URGENT!!!! Call to , You know who you are.

Bah you get the point...

This is a very unfortunate situation altogether that has lead down a very sad path .. but IMO this is not a matter for the public opinion court. There are far more details and sides of the story than could (or ever SHOULD) be shared in this public forum ..

This matter should be left private to the parties who are involved. While there are some questionable actions in process by parties on both "sides," I don't believe any scamming has occurred at this point which would be in the community's best interest to know about (i.e. this is not a warning of a potential scammer on the loose).

This is, for the moment, a waiting game with hopes that it will be settled as civilized and quickly as possible. I believe that those who may be able to help encourage a resolution to this situation are taking every action possible to try to do so. And I hope to all the higher powers of the universe, and for everyone's sake, that this whole mess is settled soon so it can go away.

But I don't think it's fair or productive to anyone to bring this to a public forum for judgement by those who don't know (and -- at least at this point -- don't need to know) all of the details.

you know if it was the first time this crap happened to our Society i would say your right.. but i am sick and tired, I brought it to light of the community because i wanted to air out the dirty laundry of the situation. No matter how you look at it something smells fishy here. I want a simple resoution i didnt call out any names just wanted opinions which i am allowed to do.

Thanks for your opinion though thats why we come here..

TheClansman said:

By asking to borrow the fap and then take it as collateral, he dishonored his friendship with the fap owner.

Click to expand...

This is nothing short of scammery and theft and 100% cause for a lockdown by MA. This type situation was asked to Marco by Akoz in an older thread, and Marco responded that in such cases the avatar will be locked and banned. So if worse comes to worse in this situation (and SoF has to file a support case) I guess it will be time to see if ALL are treated equally in PE.

Morg said:

This is nothing short of scammery and theft and 100% cause for a lockdown by MA. This type situation was asked to Marco by Akoz in an older thread, and Marco responded that in such cases the avatar will be locked and banned. So if worse comes to worse in this situation (and SoF has to file a support case) I guess it will be time to see if ALL are treated equally in PE.

Click to expand...

so if at least the Fap isnt returned in good faith, then MA has all but said/guaranteed that the avatar in question will be locked and banned.

none-the-less, guess it is time to see if the avatar in question values the "collateral" items more than his entire account/avatar...since the avatar in question has violated EULA and has placed himself in a situation that guarantess a lockdown and banning. So, although MA cannot get your "items" returned, they can certianly ban and delete his account...so if the "moral high ground" is not taken at least you now have a bargining leg to stand on since his account is now in jeperdy from his actions.


oops...meant to edit o.0

But what good would that do? These guys want their stuff back.. I doubt they care if the avatar gets locked.

Centech said:

But what good would that do? These guys want their stuff back.. I doubt they care if the avatar gets locked.

Click to expand...

pfff, Im sure they dont care if he gets locked or not, as far as getting items back, but Im quite sure the avatar in question values his avatars skills/etc more than the "collateral" items...and if he just passes the items off to someone else in his soc, then they are also subject to simular actions for knowingly receiving stolen property. Is the exact same thing as a small time petty scammer and his occomplises...just on a large scale...worth of a very large and destined to be famous press release...almost worth of Oprah.

now its time for very quick damage controll before the perverbial shit hits the fan. I can imagine the headlines now

Windswept said:

.....
y person claims them as his own as payback on debt.

Click to expand...

Now i understand ....



lol , Y person rules!
Way to go !

What a mess It's always bad when someone's account gets hijacked while that person holds numerous items belonging to numerous others.

The fact names are dropped left and right is not improving the situation. I tried reading the whole thread, and am still confused as to how Stryker fits into this story exactly?

Accussations like that should not be made lightly in any means. I hope you realise that unless you offer 100% solid proof, you are conducting character assassination, and damaging somebody else's reputation.

To Mindark, this should signal one or two things:

1) There is a definite need for some form of police. Police in real life are those who ensure mobs do not lynch a person based on hearsay. The fact Stryker's name got mentioned here, without any proof to back anything up whatsoever is bad. Very bad.

I do not know the background to this story. I don't want to know. I want someone capable of handling such a thing impartially to look after the presented evidence, and then decide what happened.

(Yes, I am aware that in real life, it is still possible for judges to send the wrong person to jail, and that even if that person is proven innocent later, his/her reputation will never be the same).

2) There needs to be a lending system. A lending system consists of nothing more than a few database tables. It includes an "Actual owner ID" field. Whenever the non-actual owner tries selling it, the sale will fizzle. "You cannot sell items not belonging to yourself".

When trading, include a field marking an item "Ownership transfer". Ask for a confirmation. "Are you sure you want to transfer ownership of this item?". Yes or no. When the user clicks "yes", make the screen flash red, and sound an alarm bell stating "Are you sure? This action cannot be undone". Even someone drunk or tired will be woken up by that.

The lending system can be made much more complex with numerous other options like "amount of time to lend this item out" and what not, with possible options to prevent a lended item ending up on someone who just decides to quit and what not, but the above mentioned measures would prevent the most serious abuse from happening.

I want to make it clear that no one from SoF brought any name up except Legion.

TheClansman said:

I want to make it clear that no one from SoF brought any name up except Legion.

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QUE? i didnt mention a single person so far to my knowledge. Atleast not anyone not mentioned before i did.

*edit* nope i checked entire thread, only one i mentioned was my own old ava.

Legion said:

QUE? i didnt mention a single person so far to my knowledge. Atleast not anyone not mentioned before i did.

Click to expand...

he prolly meant that no one else then the other legion was mentionned. cant u change name u complicate the issue

ViagraFalls said:

2) There needs to be a lending system.

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Yes. This is probably THE only feature I would agree we need asap before all of the major existing bugs are fixed.

Your design seems solid to me btw.

lanksia said:

he prolly meant that no one else then the other legion was mentionned. cant u change name u complicate the issue

Click to expand...

hmm dunno if it's possible

I meant the only name we mentioned was Legion

ViagraFalls said:

2) There needs to be a lending system.

Click to expand...

MA will never ever ever ever give us a lending system.

3 reason$ off the top of my head:

1. They would be putting a lot of resellers out of buisness, and after spending the last year or so "adju$ting" the game to attract them and marketing it to them...it would be counter productive.
2. If there was a lending system, there would be a lot le$$ depositing in the game because people wouldnt have to replace stolen items and people wouldnt have to buy things they could merely borrow. Without stolen items there would be less reason to lock accounts and MA gets to keep (not return to rightful owner) the item$ on the avatar.
3. It would seriously damage the economy they have worked so hard to inflate.

not having a lending system is a win-win situation for MA...having a lending system is a lose-lose situation for MA.

Morg said:

MA will never ever ever ever give us a lending system.

3 reason$ off the top of my head:

1. They would be putting a lot of resellers out of buisness, and after spending the last year or so "adju$ting" the game to attract them and marketing it to them...it would be counter productive.
2. If there was a lending system, there would be a lot le$$ depositing in the game because people wouldnt have to replace stolen items and people wouldnt have to buy things they could merely borrow. Without stolen items there would be less reason to lock accounts and MA gets to keep (not return to rightful owner) the item$ on the avatar.
3. It would seriously damage the economy they have worked so hard to inflate.

not having a lending system is a win-win situation for MA...having a lending system is a lose-lose situation for MA.

Click to expand...

Cynical but true.

Bottom line, once you lend/give something to someone, consider it gone.

This sucks. It means that you are not able to form long term trusting relationships with anyone.

safara said:

Cynical but true.

Bottom line, once you lend/give something to someone, consider it gone.

This sucks. It means that you are not able to form long term trusting relationships with anyone.

Click to expand...

Exactly correct. I expect that nobody will get anything back, nothing will happen to the 'bad guy', and everyone can kiss their money goodbye.

What I find interesting is that there was a gold card involved. So much for security.

Morg said:

MA will never ever ever ever give us a lending system.

3 reason$ off the top of my head:

1. They would be putting a lot of resellers out of buisness, and after spending the last year or so "adju$ting" the game to attract them and marketing it to them...it would be counter productive.
2. If there was a lending system, there would be a lot le$$ depositing in the game because people wouldnt have to replace stolen items and people wouldnt have to buy things they could merely borrow. Without stolen items there would be less reason to lock accounts and MA gets to keep (not return to rightful owner) the item$ on the avatar.
3. It would seriously damage the economy they have worked so hard to inflate.

not having a lending system is a win-win situation for MA...having a lending system is a lose-lose situation for MA.

Click to expand...

Marco|MindArk said:

* Participants asking for a long time for the implementation on a lending system. Can we expect this in the near future ?

No. We don't believe a general lending system will be beneficial to Entropia Universe, and the security around it is very complex. The indications we have are that if a lending system is introduced it will create monopolies and remove a large part of the fun factor from Entropia Universe.

Click to expand...

message is too short...

Sry for your losses...

Anyway, sounds like the new owner of that Atanar Legion-avi is a real scammer. What kind of person gives access to his avatar while he's holding other peoples property?
(Well, unless I still managed to get it wrong)

Morg said:

...
not having a lending system is a win-win situation for MA...having a lending system is a lose-lose situation for MA.

Click to expand...

Not so.
MA would ofc love to get rid of all those trust scams, which are hurting us all and therefor MA too.

Though Marco claims it's very complicated to do in a secure matter, I believe EU really *needs* it, and that MA simply have to make it sooner or later.

Marco said:

No. We don't believe a general lending system will be beneficial to Entropia Universe, and the security around it is very complex. The indications we have are that if a lending system is introduced it will create monopolies and remove a large part of the fun factor from Entropia Universe.

Click to expand...

Yes, but there *ARE* workarounds for this, and it's EU really NEEDS this to grow and mature, imo.

this is the profile of new owner of Attanar Legion Steele in here at EF.

Yes I have never liked that guy
I'm sorry for your loss guys =/

ViagraFalls said:

... blah removed ...
1) There is a definite need for some form of police.

... blah removed ...

2) There needs to be a lending system.

... blah removed...

Click to expand...

For either of these to happen you would need to settle the issue of ownership. MA are quite clear about this in the EULA. Any and every item within EU belongs to them. Nothing is owned by an individual avatar, or the RL person controlling it.

Consequently no prosecution or court case against MA or another avatar will ever succeed in theory, because MA can't steal from themselves.

Dispute resolution is easy for MA support because Avatar A never owned anything, so Avatar B who's effectively stolen from them has no case to answer.... NEXT!

Likewise official lending is impossible. All collateral is owned by MA. So what is there to guarantee a loan???

Now you might say 'Shadwell, you've obviously been to the pub, drank far too much beer and are talking a load of BS'... and you would be right. However, until someone takes MA to court to challenge the EULA and the ownership clause, MA are simply not responsible for the resolution of EU fraud, theft, or people defaulting on loans.

BTW... I think 'old Legion' is cool. 'new Legion' sounds like a spoilt muppet, and I hope those that he's ripped off get their stuff back. Shortly after I hope he finds that the rich relative who was going to give him all this money actually went slightly potty and gave all the money to a pet parrot who's now living in a mansion in Hawaii.

KARMA roolz

Vedder said:

Yes, but there *ARE* workarounds for this, and it's EU really NEEDS this to grow and mature, imo.

Click to expand...

Marco said:

No. We don't believe a general lending system will be beneficial to Entropia Universe, and the security around it is very complex. The indications we have are that if a lending system is introduced it will create monopolies and remove a large part of the fun factor from Entropia Universe.

Click to expand...

of course there are work-arounds, its only a computer program But the key phrases here are "beneficial to Entropia Universe" and "it will create monopolies"...this is pretty much the reason also why you/we havent seen any uber faps, merc, mk's dropped..even though the "population" increase since the last ones dropped would seem to of justified a few by now? no?

"balancing", "beneficial", and "monopolies" obviously mean different things to different people...all depends on which side of the fence/company you are sitting.

Just want to say this, and it isnt much:


Comunitie at this point dont have 100% of te information.

Not possible atm couse it would damage rep of some very "trustable", "ubber", "EU friendly" person and socs, and we are trying to resove all for the better

The only legion that matters in this thread is attannar from SOf (he isnt in sof anymore)

Flatline legion isnt the issue

What a very unfortunate situation and I'm sorry about your loss.
The only thing that will bring resolution is people returning items on good faith but that is darn hard to do when those items can buy you a very nice house or a few new cars. If you look at it from MA's point of view, the logs show a trade was made and for them, thats all they can say. Ownership is 100% possession.

As for the loan system well, ok lets side with Marco and assume its very complex. Do you really trust an outsourced party, one you have seen results from, to code a complex loan system? Imagine the potential for scams and exploits if the system was not implemented 100% bug free. Im not bashing the developers but would you really trust them with your 100,000,000 ped?

All in all its sad the greed that exists here and in the real world
Good luck SOF

JAMES STRYKER WHAT? SOMEONE PLEASE FILL US IN OR IS IT JUST NAME DROPPING HERE?

This was staying between the parties involved; there was no need for public speculation or opinions.

I have resolved part of the matter with Burnsey, and I am out almost 200k peds from my own pocket, just to be fair to him, as well as being totally decieved by what had become a very good friend (legion).

And for those who dont know me, im not a hollywood-moneydripping-bigshot; Im still a student and what has conspired thus far nearly crippled me. So thanks in advance for bringing this all into public attention, not to mention trying to imply that I scammed.

Burnsey said he would post later to confirm what I have said. For those of you who are relgious, please pray that the person in question comes through with his promises in the end...

Sad thing happening again.
The issue is not about Attanar Legion, or the story he told, or the money he didn't pay back.
The issue is about someone (who i thought was a nice player and whom i respected so far) that took SOF items as his pay back for what Legion did.

I'm sure you know i agree that what he has done is wrong, but also sure he is not thinking about that now.

I hope he can understand this and give you back the items.

I'dd like to add that i'm here to help in anything you need (although can't think about anything now...).

------ Edit After reading Stryker's reply ------------

You did the right thing. I'm glad you did it, would be a great disapointment for myself if you didin't. i (still) have you in great consideration.
My last line of previous reply goes to you too now... if there's anything i can do to help...

Yes it is true that we came to a compromise. And I wish this all turns right in the end.

As for the story, it should not have been made public because it is a very complicated story and even those who are intimately involved probably do not know of all the details.

The facts need to be ironed out before anyone is named/called out for this or that.

Seems like a good time to close this thread. Happy to hear at least some of the things were worked out. Best of luck to Burnsey, Stryker and anyone else who has lost items/peds due to this saga.

Threads of this nature have no place on EF. I am not sure who Windswept (thread starter) is, or his/her relation to the parties involved, but in any case, it was inappropriate to drag these things into a public forum.