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Evader Profession

Jimmy B said:
Maybe worth a new thread for all this sort of stuff. I'm sure jdegre doesn't mind too much but we're kind of taking this thread away from the Evader profession!
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Sure, I don't mind at all. Keep the discussion here or open a new thread, whatever you guys see fits better.

However, let me remind you that the evader pro standing work is not finished yet, we are still missing the weights for avoidance and whatever other skills have any effect (quickness, ...). Maybe somebody with avoidance unlocked can calculate its influence, assuming the current %'s in first post are ok. Should be pretty straightforward.

BTW, wiki says that you gain Combat Sense from evading. Can anyone confirm/deny this point?.

And last, as pointed out before, dodger seems to follow a different pattern than evader, so more input is needed (although I must admit that my primary interest was evader, I'm not too much into robots or PK'ing).

/jdegre.
 
yeah i can confirm combat sense helpse evader professional standing.
Just got lvl 29 evader on a skill gain of combat sense.

Cheers
Richard
(ingame Siam)
 
jdegre said:
However, let me remind you that the evader pro standing work is not finished yet, we are still missing the weights for avoidance and whatever other skills have any effect (quickness, ...). Maybe somebody with avoidance unlocked can calculate its influence, assuming the current %'s in first post are ok. Should be pretty straightforward.

/jdegre.
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Hi jdegre

I was trying to do just that tonight but found that the present formula was too far off to hope for a realistic number for Avoidance. I added a column to the spreadsheet that i keep regular skill updates in; it sums up all the contributions according to the formula here. Anyway, the numbers are all off of the actual Evader level, and by different amounts in each row. I tried adding 1% for agility*25 and subtracting 0.5% from serendipity and athletics and then assigning 7% to Avoidance and that stays about in sync with the few rows i have with Evader professional standing available, but it's still off.

I don't care to relearn the maths and tools needed to deconvolute the skills but here are a few data sets to add to those you used before:

Code: 
Agi  Evade  Athlet CR     Cou    Alert  Seren  Avoid  [b]Evader[/b]
69.0 3852.5 3093.5 3849.0 3953.1 2594.6 3267.0    0.0 25.00
69.6 3956.7 3233.1 3936.9 4006.9 2660.7 3441.0  617.4 26.15
70.1 4034.4 3365.8 3998.1 4056.8 2738.9 3540.5  996.1 26.99
70.5 4090.7 3437.6 4042.7 4099.1 2788.2 3619.7 1175.9 27.49
71.0 4167.5 3485.2 4107.4 4162.3 2896.9 3741.0 1393.4 28.15
 
Hi doer,

With your 5 data sets, avoidance gives a weight of 6%. This is the calculated evader vs. your real evader:

- 2508 / 2500 (0.32% off)
- 2618 / 2615 (0.10 % off)
- 2699 / 2699 (sharp)
- 2749 / 2749 (sharp)
- 2813 / 2815 (0.06% off)

Honestly, I think it is pretty accurate and the deviations might be caused simply by decimal rounding.

Cheers,
/jdegre.

PS: Nice skills, btw :)
PS2: If this 6% is eventually confirmed, it is way way lower than anyone could expect, isn't it?
 
Nice work Doer & jdegre.

jdegre said:
If this 6% is eventually confirmed, it is way way lower than anyone could expect, isn't it?
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Well...not so sure about that, unlocked skills seem to generally be secondary skills. Without looking I would guess Marksmanship was around 6% on the sniper pro standing thread, as were the other unlocked skills.

Assuming it'll add up to 100%, with the numbers currently on your first post we have 70% taken up already, with Quickness, Intuition, Avoidness and Agility still to include. So 6% is maybe a little lower than the average of those 4 but not much.
 
jdegre said:
Hi doer,

With your 5 data sets, avoidance gives a weight of 6%. This is the calculated evader vs. your real evader:

- 2508 / 2500 (0.32% off)
- 2618 / 2615 (0.10 % off)
- 2699 / 2699 (sharp)
- 2749 / 2749 (sharp)
- 2813 / 2815 (0.06% off)

Honestly, I think it is pretty accurate and the deviations might be caused simply by decimal rounding.

Cheers,
/jdegre.

PS: Nice skills, btw :)
PS2: If this 6% is eventually confirmed, it is way way lower than anyone could expect, isn't it?
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Thanks jdegre. 6% would be disappointing, but not really all that surprising, as Jimmy points out. By the time people unlock Avoidance most contributing skills are over 3k and even a secondary skill that contributes 6% will seem to make a huge difference as it very quickly goes up the first 1k levels.

I appreciate your work on this. It seems to me there's really no reason we can't nail this down completley, including agility; We just need a few people to use NRF or another method to calculate their exact levels of all the included skills and Evader standing, and throw them all into the matrix, right? Preferrably some with quite low Evader and ideally some much higher so as to get a better range.

Until then i'll put 6% for Avoidance on my thread about defense skills. I'd like to get agility included in there. I'm sure agility plays a "large" role here (large for a number that goes up to 100 at best may not be all that significant, though), because i gain it so much more rapidly than those who don't skill defense much.

I noticed that the wiki now describes Quickness as unlocking at Evader level 55. Does anyone know who verified this? A snapshot of their relevant skills and Evader level would be very useful.
 
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Doer said:
We just need a few people to use NRF or another method to calculate their exact levels of all the included skills and Evader standing, and throw them all into the matrix, right?
Click to expand...

Well here are mine if they are any use:

Evader: 41.06

Agility: 108.12
Athletics: 4875.74
Combat Reflexes: 5615.56
Combat Sense: 5217.03
Evade: 4049.81
Avoidance: 4763.23
Alertness: 5646.16
Courage: 5510.71
Serendipity: 6107.63
 
demoniac said:
Well here are mine if they are any use:

Evader: 41.06

Agility: 108.12
Athletics: 4875.74
Combat Reflexes: 5615.56
Combat Sense: 5217.03
Evade: 4049.81
Avoidance: 4763.23
Alertness: 5646.16
Courage: 5510.71
Serendipity: 6107.63
Click to expand...

From these skills, it seems that CS = 6% and agi = 2% (with agi*25)

EDIT. also calculated with my own skills, it seems more likely CS=7% and agi 6% (without agi*25)
 
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Witte said:
From these skills, it seems that CS = 6% and agi = 2% (with agi*25)
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6% would make sense with Avoidance being 6% as well. That does leave 16% to Quickness and Intuition, though. :eek: To give agility any weight with the present formula overestimates my Evader level every time. Did you reduce the % contribution from one of the other skills to get this?
 
demoniac said:
Well here are mine if they are any use:

Evader: 41.06

Agility: 108.12
Athletics: 4875.74
Combat Reflexes: 5615.56
Combat Sense: 5217.03
Evade: 4049.81
Avoidance: 4763.23
Alertness: 5646.16
Courage: 5510.71
Serendipity: 6107.63
Click to expand...

With Combat Sense at 7% it gives:

Your calculated evader: 4103
Your real evader: 4106

However, I have checked with dreicc's skills and CS=7% gives an evader level (5583) much higher than his real level (5500 if he posted his stats at the exact moment of unlocking quickness).

So, maybe it is around 6%, plus some agility %. More data needed :)

/jdegre.
 
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If anyone wants to test further and see if you can get instant Avoidance with no other skills than Evade, I have put a 60 ped Evade chip on auction ending March 24.
 
Epictetus said:
If anyone wants to test further and see if you can get instant Avoidance with no other skills than Evade, I have put a 60 ped Evade chip on auction ending March 24.
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There's no need to test this. As i pointed out in my post on Evader, it would unlock at 10k Evade with 1 in all other skills. No one will get 10k evade out of a 60 ped chip. ;)
 
The chipping thread suggests Courage weighs in at 7% rather than 10%. It was a bit inconclusive about whether Serendipity is 4% or 5%, I've gone with 5% on the basis of the evidence in this thread.
 
Taking the weights from the chipping thread, and 25% for Evade (which seems to be pretty certain), I get 8% (Agility*20) right on the spot with my, and my disciples skills & professions.

To be exact:

myself: 7.91 ... 8.07 %
disciple: 6.83 ... 8.61 % (larger error due to less skill)
 
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Gingko said:
Taking the weights from the chipping thread, and 25% for Evade (which seems to be pretty certain), I get 8% (Agility*20) right on the spot with my, and my disciples skills & professions.
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Yes, I found the same 8% for agility to be quite accurate, after setting courage at 7%. I'll update first post with these data, although for the rest of the skills we'll have to go to the chipping method to avoid further mistakes, and I expect jimmy's thread will take care of that.

I'll set combat sense at 6% according to the chipping thread, and avoidance remains a little bit undefined yet, although 7% looks very very accurate from the data supplied by ppl.

All data I got from chipping is accurate, but courage was derived manually by checking stats from different people, and without considering agility, so yes, it was quite off... :(

Cheers,
/jdegre.
 
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Gingko said:
Taking the weights from the chipping thread, and 25% for Evade (which seems to be pretty certain), I get 8% (Agility*20) right on the spot with my, and my disciples skills & professions.
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Maybe its an idea to start a new thread about attributes, and post all the data you have there. I posted some data that might be usefull here. I left out evader there but can loot it up if needed.
 
+ Dodge = + Evasion

Fed up with being zapped by high level drones, I made a vain attempt in increasing my life span with a small Dodge Skill Implant.

To all surprises, I did not gain a level in Dodger, but the green icon did come on for an Evader level increase lol !

Unfortunately I did not note down any figures before-hand, except that I now have Evader at 10 and Dodger at 8 and I am now going to kick ass ! (joke).

I am unsure if Dodge has a direct influence on Evasion or I increased another skill with Dodge that in turn gave me the Evader level, (there were a few green icons that came up at the same time, but again I did not pay attention to what they were).

I skipped through this thread and did not notice anything written about this, so please excuse me if it is already mentioned.
 
the chipping thread showed no evidence of dodge having any influence in evader profession; if what you detected is eventually confirmed, it would be a huge surprise.

if you plan to insert another dodge implant, please take screeshots of you profession levels before and after, please.

/jdegre.
 
jdegre said:
the chipping thread showed no evidence of dodge having any influence in evader profession; if what you detected is eventually confirmed, it would be a huge surprise.

if you plan to insert another dodge implant, please take screeshots of you profession levels before and after, please.

/jdegre.
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Yes that would be very odd. Keep an eye out anyone chipping dodge!

The only thing I can think is it changed when some of the non-bot ranged mobs switched from evade to dodge. But I'd still be surprised if dodge affects evader since you don't gain dodge whilst evading...
 
Kooky said:
there were a few green icons that came up at the same time, but again I did not pay attention to what they were
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Seems the level didnt change after chipping but during a hunt. Or more skills were chipped. Else it would mean that dodge contributes to even more professions which seems very unlikely.
 
Witte said:
Seems the level didnt change after chipping but during a hunt. Or more skills were chipped. Else it would mean that dodge contributes to even more professions which seems very unlikely.
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Yes Dodge only affects Dodger as far as we know. Did you chip something else as well Kooky?
 
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