Attention all component crafters: You can profit with NO SKILLS by crafting Basic Sheet Metal!!!

Let me preface this post by saying that I recently decided I am done with crafting. I enjoy hunting more, crafting is boring for me, and I just don't have the patience for it. That is why I am posting this, it will no longer affect me to disclose how I have made a few hundred PEDs with very little risk. Good luck to all you players who start crafting as a result of reading this thread.

When people want to start out as a crafter, they ask: What should I craft? Invariably the responses come for them to start out with basic filters and then when the skillgains dry up, move to standard dampers (no pun intended).) Yes filters and dampers are cheap but the skill gains are SLOW as hell (at least for filters, from personal experience) and you WILL lose money over the long run, GUARANTEED. The residue you get from filters is absolutely pathetic. They are TT food. I haven't done a test on them but I'm fairly sure the typical return over the long run is 60%, probably gets a little higher as your skills increase.

Clearly, while you CAN get BPC by skilling basic filters, they are NOT the optimal thing to skill on. Which brings me to:

Basic Sheet Metal!

This stuff is just absolutely money. No skills? No problem. It is relatively expensive per click, but by the time your sheet metal and res get through auction you'll be staring at your PED card in amazement. The TT value of basic sheet metal is 3.92 pecs, and the minimum amount of sheet metal you will get per click is 9. With max CoS on a sheet metal BP (QR of about 35-40 or higher), crafting on full quantity, you will average five sheet metal per click. I have confirmed this in a 1000-click test, the results of which I will disclose to you shortly. Although the sheet metal prices are somewhat unstable, depending on how many people have entries on auction at once, you should not have a problem selling for 76 peds per 1K sheet metal, or 193.88%. If you craft a lot of it you will probably prefer to sell in batches of 2K (any higher than this and they could be more difficult to sell.) If you are savvy with the auction you might be able to get a better price than this by waiting until there are few of other people's entries left. Believe it or not there are people in EU who will buy stackable items for the non-lowest price because they don't care about one or two extra PEDs.

Each click of basic sheet metal costs one Alicenies Gel and one Narcanisum ingot. The alic gel is cheap, you should be able to get it for 112-115%, and since its low TT (10 pecs) it doesnt much matter if you are at the lower or higher end of that range. The important element is the narc ingot. The price of narc tends to fluctuate between 150% and 170%, but when it is higher, sheet metal prices will proably also be higher. As with any serious rading venture you need to be savvy with the auction because the auction is how you make profits. One neat trick you can use is exploiting the auction's 1 PED increment limit by putting in a bid for low quantities of narc (I'd say 100 or less) so that nobody can surpass you without paying an excessively high percent. For instance say there are 50 narc ingots on auction (TT 12), and no buyout. You put in a bid of 18 PED which is 150%. Now if someone wants to outbid you they'll have to pay 19 PED which is 158.33%. If the buyout prices are about 155-156% then you've just won the auction for 150% because nobody can outbid you without overpaying. The fewer ingots in an entrie, the more you can underpay and have an unbeatable bid. If you do this several times you can end up buying a few hundred narc ingots for 5-10% less than everyone else. Another thing to remember is check the mineral resources page in auction, as people usually sell unrefined ores in small quantities so you can use the above tactic, and they are often inexperienced players and thus might sell with a very low buyout that you can take advantage of.

I would say that overall you should aim for a price of about 48 pecs per click, although this obviously depends on narc prices. Let's say 36.5 per narc ingot and 11.5 per alic gel, for the sake of round numbers. Now here is where I will divulge to you all the results of my 1000-click test:

Basic Sheet Metal: 5008
Metal Residue: 8212
Energy Residue: 9586
Alicenies Gel: 166
Narcanisum ingot: 0 (you only get these back if you craft on condition)

Skills (Start) Skills (End)

Engineering: 316 Engineering: 331
Manu. Metal: 253 Manu. Metal: 279
Metallurgy: 116 Metallurgy: 124
Blueprint QR: 72.1 Blueprint QR: 73.8

Now to be fair, I got about half of my residue in the last 100 clicks, from a 32 ped drop and then a 56 ped global. But I had been running kind of cold before those, so I would say just a say just as an educated guess that you will average 14K residue with those skills. I have gotten four globals total from sheet metal and while you won't get one every run, to be sure, you will get several drops of 500-2000 residue. Note that if you have zero skills it won't affect your res output a whole lot compared with 300 Eng. The important thing is to have a blueprint that gives you max CoS. Could be 40 could be 100, there's really no difference. And the more ENG you get, the more residue you will turn out. Furthermore, if I understand correctly, as your MME and Metallurgy get higher you will eventually be able to move the slider part way toward condition and not lose any CoS. This should significantly boost your outpout.

So 1K clicks will cost you roughly 480 PEDs. You will get back about 5000 sheet metal and based on the pre-stated price of 193.88%, after auction fee, you'll get about 370 PEDs from the sheet metal. Out of the 14K average residue you'll get in the long run half metal half energy. Res prices have gone up recently and you can probably get 77 peds for 7K energy res and 88 peds for metal res on auction. The auction fees will be about 2 ped combined so that's another 163 PED. And you will always get about 160-170 alic gel back per run, at our pre-stated price of 11.5 pecs each, 166 alic gel is 19 peds. Add that all up:

370 + 163 + 19 = 552 PED
-480 PED
72 PEDS PROFIT

This of course is just an average and believe me it used to be higher when VU 8.7 came out and people were buying this stuff for 250% like crazy to make OA 101 Lights. Now the price has declined but it will not go down any lower unless mining or crafting gets a major nerf. Why? Because OA 101 Light is THE most commonly crafted attachment, it can be bought from a technician, people HOF on it, and the low markup of the amps ensures that there will always be a demand for them, especially since they are limited items and get used up very quickly.

PLUS you get the skills, much faster than you will get skills from filters. Yet another advantage is that most people who get BPC do so with filters and thus have Mecahnics and Manu. Mech. Equip skills. You will have metallurgy and Manu. Metal Equip skills, and since less people have them compared to electronics and mechanics, they are more valuable. Plus there are a lot of mid-level metal components (standard rod, standard plate, hardened bolts, etc) used for higher level attachments that you will be able to craft with high CoS and others won't.

Good luck to all of you who decide to try your hand at basic sheet metal and hopefully it will be just the start to a fun and profitable crafting career in EU.

And, as a final note, I still have my sheet metal BP which is currently QR 75.8, and I'm planning to sell it. PM me if you are interested and I will also post in the "Selling" forum. Remember, from about QR 40 to QR 100 your CoS is almost exactly the same, so the value is the same for anything in that range.

How did you get to the 14k average residure per 1000 click run?

It can be much lower ( I have done quite a few 1000 click tests).
Thats where you might loose sometimes.

Apart from that I agree that its a very nice way to skill.

I've got no experience except a 230 click run on Basic Filters.
Got back 471 of those useless things and little bit of skills.

So I'm keeping a close eye on this thread to seek advice and alternative crafting paths

I admit that I would need more test runs before knowing what the average res output is, but before those two hits I had 9K res and just based on previous experienced it seemed like somewhat less than average, so I figured take out the global and replace it with another 1K, that would be about average. But let's say the average res is only 10K per 1K clicks, you are still profiting, maybe only about 25 peds per run but even this, I'm sure someone just beginning at crafting would grab in a heartbeat, compared to the alternative of filters/dampers.

It seems that 10k residue average is much more likely, although just a few 1000 click runs isnt enough to really test it.

The problem is that sometimes you will get 3k or 4k residue in a run and that will be a big loos, you need to have deep pockets to withstand the bad runs.

Now you can forget about your profit:
many basic sheet metal crafters - low basic sheet metal prices

btw, I have tested basic sheet metal crafting about month ago and got huge loss.
Your profit was just because of global...

Yup, I'd say you just made most crafters day, because if the n00b population starts crafting sheet metal, the overall availability goes up, which means the price goes down. This is why most crafters are relatively secretive about what and when they craft.

Your intentions are good, but now we can all look forward to the sheet metal market being flooded, AND most likely, a rise in the price of Narc. The good thing, is hopefully they will cancel each other out. Many people will see the raising cost of Narc and decide to craft something else.

There are no get rich quick schemes here. At least none that can support a large number of people....

Yes!!! Now we know the secret of making profit in crafting!
Thanks, let's all craft basic sheet metal and make profit!

...

I remember a similar post about crafting amps, before the post the oa-103 was around 174ped but shortly after the post it dropped sharply to around 144ped.

At the same time the price of ores needed to craft the amps went up sharply due to higher demand.


It's unfortunate that everyone can't share in a good thing, but if u do find a good thing it's usualy best to keep your mouth shut - you don't help anyone (I know this was the intention but that's not how it works) and u decrease any small profits from those who are already crafting them.

Well, I guess I can say to my BPC goal.

Yes, BSM sells and filters don't.

Yes, profit is possible, but not guaranteed. I only profit about every 3rd run. (However, perhaps that's because I sell my BSM for a decent price.)

Yes, BSM prices will now drop and Narc prices will rise even higher.

But, like you said, this no longer affects you, so what do you care?

Woohooo thanks u just brought the price of BSM down, as a crafter I thank u thank u thank u

Thx for letting us know.

(/me goes to mine for narc and ali to sell at crazy prices)

And by responding on this post you keep it alife in the New Posts section.

Great, even more people get aware of it this way.

I should have addressed these concerns, which were sure to arise, in my first post, but I'll get to them here.

Look, the EF section on crafting represents a tiny minority of people in EF and especially in EU. It's not like I put up an ad in PA for all the noobs to see. Most people who read EF and especially this section are at least somewhat serious about the game and not trying to make a quick buck. This is not a get-rich-quick scheme, merely a way of sustaining yourself while making a modest profit and accumulating skills faster than you would with filters, and the only people who are going to heed this thread are those who are interested in crafting anyway. That's why I said in the title, "Attention all component crafters," not attention all small-time sweaters and new players. You can't just sweat for 10 peds and start crafting, I'd say you need around 600 peds to get started, so that you won't be out of PEDs while you wait on the auction, and you can hunt to pass the time, or buy more narc if the price is right.

I made a (unnecessary, upon further review) thread about sheet metal a couple months ago maybe, about the price going down; I realized later that I started making it right after the VU when the OA 101 Light first came out and that there was no way that price could be sustained. People wrote in that thread look what you've done now everone is going to start making sheet metal and the price will go down. Well, over time a few new people did start making them and a few others stopped, and probably none of them read EF. It didn't happen. The price is still the same 190-200% that it was then. The price is not getting lower for all the reasons I mentioned in the first post and it's not getting higher for narc for the same reasons, plus narc is used for many other BPs other than BSM. So you all have nothing to worry about.

As for the average reisud. I am surprised to hear that you got only 3-4K in a 1K click run. Again, I already accounted for the global, even if you took out my last 100 clicks I still had made 9000 res in a 1K click run and to me that seemed below average based on how I had done previously. You can easily get 14K res in a run without globaling, or even getting anything higher than 2K res at once. Although you will get the occasional global, more than with other components because the cost per click is higher. I said that I was done with crafting but now I am really temptd to do another 1K run and see what happens.

The main thing is that if you panick and sell stuff at prices that are lower than what people will pay for them, you are unlikely to be successful at most ventures in EU, and this is no exception. Unless you have insane skills you can't profit at anything by TTing everything you loot, the path to success is through markup.

Look at this guys the guy is trying to help out the community which needs ALOT of help and he gets flamed because hes trying to help. Then you whine to yourself how do we make money here? He's jsut stating what he did that might help soem of you and all of you are actign like little kids falming "Oh gj now everyone will know about this"
And i thought this community was different than the others for other games

I say the OP made a good post ...trying to help out people..I know I am working VERY hard on crafting at this time and I very much enjoy any realitive conversation on any alternative to crafting filters and dampers...I am SICK of making these..even if you onlt get 120% return on BSM it is a welcome change to making 5k dampers and having to TT them because they have no use or worth to the community. It would be a great day fro crafting when a newbie could start crafting low-end standard parts and be guarenteed at least 105% mark up for there time and investment. i truely wish all of the low end parts had a use in higher level items...I think that is what was orginaly planned anyways but MA hasnt gotten that far yet. Good luck to evey one that attempts crafting..it is a long hard road for sure.

Who's flaming him? As a higher level crafter Im very happy that I dont have to pay 200% for BSM nor waste the time crafting it. I applaud his sharing

Same thing happened a while back. Someone made a post about BSM. A flood of people started crafting it, the price of BSM dropped, the price of Narc rose, people found it difficult to get the Narc to craft the BSM or were unwilling to pay the higher price, less BSM went onto the market, and the price rose back to where it was before.

Until more Narc is mined, the price of BSM will remain pretty constant. It's too much in demand by crafters, and there isn't enough Narc available to satisfy that demand.

Just my 0.02PED

Thanks for trying to help, but if your skill levels posted reflect the amount of clicks you've put on them, then I'd say get alot more clicks in before doing an average result. I profit all the time on dampers, when i global or get a mini or 2 (watches lyst and oil prices go up)

Thanks =P for the info

This was actually posted quite a while ago. Infact that made the price drop from 250% to 190% overnight.

It's kinda like quantum physics. The act of telling people destroys the thing your telling them about.

Why on earth would you post this information only after your finished crafting? To me it seems nasty and selfish. Why didn't you tell the people earlier...

Nasty? Selfish?? What do you think I have to gain by making this thread? It's not like I stockpiled a whole bunch of narc to try and drive up the price by making this thread. People post helpful information about various aspects of EU all the time in these forums, like eco, skills, etc, and they don't get flamed for it. And it's not like I have an obligation to tell people everything I've ever done or found out in EU, I'm sure you don't disclose every single onf of your strategies in EU either. You guys have to understand that the EF Crafting forum represents a very small minority of the total population of EU, it's totally insignificant. The reason the price went down so much was basically because of one guy who crafted a whole bunch of it and started selling it on auction for less than what people would pay for it, so the other crafters panicked and started selling it lower than his price, etc etc. Of course this was probably bound to happen eventually once the initial fervor over the OA 101 Light BP tapered off. The markup on BSM now is pretty similar to what the markup on Sensors was before VU 8.7, as OA 101 Light has supplanted OA 101 as the most popular BP. Look there's been like 15 total people who posted on this thread, it's not going to drastically affect prices like some of you are claiming.

I apologies for the remark. I just meant it sounds selfish because your post starts with the sentence "as this no longer affects me"

Meaning:

1. you didn't and had no intention of posting this when it did affect you.
2. You realise that although it doesnt affect you it does affect other people.

Now, I'm not sure what the definition of selfish actually is mind you and I could not be bothered finding out. So I retract my statement as I know absolutely nothing about you in reality and I do not like calling people names or categorizing people and I'm sure you were only trying to help.

so this is not a:

gotto find a way to make the most of the bms bp i got in my inventory still?
let's make up a profit story and in the end i slip out that i do plan to sell my profit making bp

post?

Spawn said:

so this is not a:

gotto find a way to make the most of the bms bp i got in my inventory still?
let's make up a profit story and in the end i slip out that i do plan to sell my profit making bp

post?

Click to expand...

Wow...talk about cynical...

come on man I even gave the results of my test, if I had made them up then someone else who makes BSM would have called me on it for being inaccurate. How about instead of accusing me of lying and making up a "profit story," you do a test for yourself and compare it with mine?

Give him a break!
All the guy did was try and share his experience with the forum.
I dont agree with the conclusions from his test either but that doesnt mean his intentions were bad.

If BSM was really easy profit alot of people would make them and the prices would drop... all he showed was that with a combination of luck and smart trading you can profit from it... thats not a revelation that will rock the crafting world

Kosh

I think he made a well intentioned post in order to help other crafters - unfortunatly it doesn't work that way.

People have posted that we're flaming him for trying to help the community, that's simply not the case. We're pointing out that there's a limited number of people who can do well with a print, when too many people try the ores go up and the crafted items come down in price.

Telling people doesn't help the community, it simply hurts those who are already using the print. Only people who this helps are the 'bigger' crafters who buy the BSM.

Only people who this helps are the 'bigger' crafters who buy the BSM.

Click to expand...

Scratch that, the prints that use BSM usualy use narc too - more BSM crafters = higher narc prices, so it hurts everyone.

I agree with what you say Slither, but do you really think a post here can have such implications on the market? I dont, but you have much more experience than me and maybe you saw it happen before...

Whatever happens it all evens out in the end, no quick easy profit for anyone and if prices do change we just need to adapt to the new situation and work out the best strategy.

Okay let's see what happens one week from now as far as narc and BSM prices. I say, they'll be just about the same, and that all of this speculation about price movement is overblown. The discussions in the EF crafting forum do not dictate the direction of the entire economy of EU.