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the thing you missed is that it's only 1hp every 1600 skills

grts
 
oh crappy :duh

:ahh:
 
Some old but interesting info here. There's some discussion about engineering contributing a small amount of HP (smaller than any listed in this thread) which I don't know whether to believe or not. But at the very least the data from the screenshots could be useful for determining the starting HP (avatar has 91 HP and 31 Intelligence at the time of the HP gain, reportedly).

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29467


JoLin said:
Are you interested in info from others? I skilled a little longblade to gain an extra HP from strength and as seen on the screenshot it does happen at 40 (or when you are over 39.5). Hope it helps.
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
Click to expand...

It appears from the picture, that was from a Courage skill gain.
 
Last edited:
hmmm report at 146 hp :
Code: 
1. (200) Commando -----------0
2. (320) Courage ------------3838>  -  11,993750
3. (400) Coolness -----------02147>  -  5,367500
4. (533,3) Athletics --------02424>  -    4,545280
5. (533,3) Melee Combat -----04287>  - 8,038627 
6. (800) Dexterity ----------02710>  -    3,387500
7. (800) Combat Sense -------0>  -        0
8. (1600) Perception --------02554>  -  1.596250
9. (1600) Serendipity -------03253>  -   2,033125
10. (1600) Combat Reflexes --03634>  - 2,27125
11. (1600) Handgun ----------4279>  -  2,674375
12. (1600) Rifle ------------03810>  -  2,38125
13. (1600) Weapons Handling -03685>  -  2,303125
14. (1600) Drilling ---------01409>  -  0,880625
15. (1600) Mining -----------02815>  -  1,759375
16. (1600) Prospecting ------01988>  -  1,2425
17. (1600) Surveying --------00729>  -  0,455625
18. (40) Agility ------------00068>  -  1,7
19. (40) Intelligence -------00055>  -  1,375
20. (40) Psyche -------------00025 -  0,625
21. (40) Strength -----------00070 -  1,750000

total: 56,380157 -2=54,380157 (started at 20 attribute)
based on 146 hp:
146-54,380157= 91,619843

oh and my engi is at 1576
 
Last edited:
Jimmy B said:
Some old but interesting info here. There's some discussion about engineering contributing a small amount of HP (smaller than any listed in this thread) which I don't know whether to believe or not. But at the very least the data from the screenshots could be useful for determining the starting HP (avatar has 91 HP and 31 Intelligence at the time of the HP gain, reportedly).
Click to expand...


Possibility: You start at 88.00
20agi + 20intel + 20psy + 20str + 9sta makes that 90.45. The link you give, it sais he gained 11int so that makes 91 exactly.
 
Thanks Firejuggler.

Witte said:
Possibility: You start at 88.00
20agi + 20intel + 20psy + 20str + 9sta makes that 90.45. The link you give, it sais he gained 11int so that makes 91 exactly.
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable to me. Although then we'd be ruling out engi, so Firejuggler's numbers above still wouldn't quite work...
 
using stamina in, that would start me at 91,394843 (91,4 , rounding?) and would match with engi giving one 1HP for 3200 skillpoint (supposed start at 90,9hp)

oh and if you need i can dig up the engi i had at the previously reported HP
 
Last edited:
I have almost 1500 engineering and the chipping calculator is overestimating my health by about 0.3 as it is. I don't know what base hp jdegre is using.
 
Doer said:
I have almost 1500 engineering and the chipping calculator is overestimating my health by about 0.3 as it is. I don't know what base hp jdegre is using.
Click to expand...

jimmy and i thought that might be due to that (possibly) agility gives a wee bit more, and intelligence a wee bit less hp....but we cant know that for sure, we'd need a CRAPLOAD of stats for that
 
Cant someone just fap after an engenering gain? That should give some proof (just make sure you also fap after other skillgains though)
 
Doer said:
I have almost 1500 engineering and the chipping calculator is overestimating my health by about 0.3 as it is. I don't know what base hp jdegre is using.
Click to expand...

i'm using a raw base of 89.
the tool overestimates at low HPs (<150-160) and underestimates at high HPs, so i used this base (instead of 88) because it seems to work as a better fit for a majority of avatars. i know it is incorrect, thou.
from the feedback i've received, my bet is also on the influence of attributes, which might be slightly off.
 
actually, it under-estimate mine by about 0,4 hp, maybe cause i have medium skill in ranged and melee (or the engi/stamina bonus)
 
jdegre said:
i'm using a raw base of 89.
the tool overestimates at low HPs (<150-160) and underestimates at high HPs, so i used this base (instead of 88) because it seems to work as a better fit for a majority of avatars. i know it is incorrect, thou.
from the feedback i've received, my bet is also on the influence of attributes, which might be slightly off.
Click to expand...

Maybe HP itself also contributes to HP:scratch2: ;)
 
I still think that 88 HP plus (20 agi, 31 int, 20 str, 20 psy, 9 stamina) = 91 HP is remarkable if it is indeed a fluke. Its certainly worth considering as a possibility imo.

Unfortunately its going to be hard to test all this, we need data sets like Firejuggler's that are right after a HP gain. I'll post mine when I get 145 but the last one was quite recent so it'll be a while.

Witte said:
Maybe HP itself also contributes to HP:scratch2: ;)
Click to expand...

:rofl:

I liked it for a moment :)

But it would just effectively scale the rate of all the skills up a little so we'd never need to consider it:

If:

HP = A.x + B.y + C.z + D.HP

then

HP.(1-D) = A.x + B.y + C.z

then

HP = A'.x + B'.y + C'.z and A'=A/(1-D), B'=B/(1-D), C'=C/(1-D)
 
Don't know if this helps. I noted my skills last night and the optimiser said I should have 132.11 when in fact I still had 131. I actually got to 132 about 15 minutes into the next hunt.

So these figures are not just after a health gain - but just before, and really not much before:

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
 
well if you read my earlier post in this thread there should be at least 3 other data-set

anyway if i ever reach 150 hp i'll post another data set

edit qweeg : did you chip out one of the current "'health' skill?
 
Last edited:
Bevor getting HP 146:


Code: 
attribute: Agility, value 69.44
attribute: Intelligence, value 48.23
attribute: Psyche, value 27.80
attribute: Stamina, value 9.00
attribute: Strength, value 54.02
attribute: Health, value 145.00
attribute: Body Sculpting, value 1.00
attribute: Face Sculpting, value 1.00
attribute: Hair Stylist, value 1.00
attribute: Plastic Surgery, value 1.00
attribute: Biotropy, value 227.15
attribute: Concentration, value 354.77
attribute: Psychotropy, value 488.27
attribute: Pyrotropy, value 1.00
attribute: Sweat Gatherer, value 197.63
attribute: Color Matching, value 1.00
attribute: Coloring, value 1.00
attribute: Make Clothes, value 130.89
attribute: Tailoring, value 27.91
attribute: Wood Carving, value 1.00
attribute: Wood Processing, value 1.00
attribute: Manufacture Attachments, value 39.94
attribute: Manufacture Electronic Equipment, value 224.18
attribute: Manufacture Mechanical Equipment, value 1469.37
attribute: Manufacture Metal Equipment, value 278.13
attribute: Manufacture Tools, value 1.00
attribute: Manufacture Weapons, value 329.94
attribute: Particle Beamer Weaponry Technology, value 1.00
attribute: Plasma Weaponry Technology, value 1295.60
attribute: Tools Technology, value 1.00
attribute: Weapon Technology, value 133.67
attribute: Armor Technology, value 1.00
attribute: Attachments Technology, value 9.52
attribute: BLP Weaponry Technology, value 2378.62
attribute: Blueprint Comprehension, value 358.53
attribute: Carpentry, value 1.00
attribute: Explosive Projectile Weaponry Technol, value 115.08
attribute: Gauss Weaponry Technology, value 1.00
attribute: Laser Weaponry Technology, value 6622.45
attribute: Machinery, value 95.90
attribute: Manufacture Armor, value 1.00
attribute: Calypso Ground Assessment, value 1038.25
attribute: Drilling, value 2810.48
attribute: Extraction, value 1212.86
attribute: Geology, value 2215.63
attribute: Metallurgy, value 126.35
attribute: Mining, value 2835.78
attribute: Prospecting, value 2410.93
attribute: Surveying, value 2513.70
attribute: Mentor, value 13.18
attribute: Probing, value 71.30
attribute: Scan Animal, value 63.48
attribute: Scan Human, value 353.85
attribute: Scan Mutant, value 1.00
attribute: Scan Robot, value 64.47
attribute: Zoology, value 70.34
attribute: Analysis, value 128.00
attribute: Animal Lore, value 119.42
attribute: Animal Taming, value 79.50
attribute: Biology, value 86.91
attribute: Botany, value 13.59
attribute: Computer, value 1277.35
attribute: Electronics, value 94.51
attribute: Engineering, value 1861.64
attribute: Genetics, value 1.00
attribute: Mechanics, value 828.58
attribute: Anatomy, value 6019.27
attribute: Diagnosis, value 947.68
attribute: First Aid, value 2526.15
attribute: Medicine, value 159.92
attribute: Dispense Decoy, value 1.00
attribute: Dodge, value 1533.95
attribute: Evade, value 2980.35
attribute: Whip, value 70.13
attribute: Marksmanship, value 5393.92
attribute: Martial Arts, value 696.31
attribute: Melee Combat, value 2106.38
attribute: Melee Damage Assessment, value 1475.74
attribute: Power Fist, value 952.78
attribute: Ranged Damage Assessment, value 4994.56
attribute: Rifle, value 4854.72
attribute: Shortblades, value 1494.96
attribute: Support Weapon Systems, value 90.90
attribute: Weapons Handling, value 4411.13
attribute: Aim, value 3391.50
attribute: Clubs, value 441.31
attribute: Combat Reflexes, value 3664.39
attribute: Handgun, value 5923.88
attribute: Heavy Melee Weapons, value 1347.96
attribute: Heavy Weapons, value 1.00
attribute: Inflict Melee Damage, value 1271.36
attribute: Inflict Ranged Damage, value 3555.75
attribute: Light Melee Weapons, value 501.86
attribute: Longblades, value 3906.92
attribute: Alertness, value 2446.97
attribute: Athletics, value 2446.93
attribute: Bravado, value 1474.12
attribute: Coolness, value 2431.80
attribute: Courage, value 3451.09
attribute: Dexterity, value 3109.08
attribute: Perception, value 2875.06
attribute: Serendipity, value 3599.29

Total skill count = 121989.26


After getting HP 146:

Code: 
attribute: Agility, value 69.47
attribute: Intelligence, value 48.25
attribute: Psyche, value 27.80
attribute: Stamina, value 9.00
attribute: Strength, value 54.04
attribute: Health, value 146.00
attribute: Body Sculpting, value 1.00
attribute: Face Sculpting, value 1.00
attribute: Hair Stylist, value 1.00
attribute: Plastic Surgery, value 1.00
attribute: Biotropy, value 227.15
attribute: Concentration, value 355.47
attribute: Psychotropy, value 488.27
attribute: Pyrotropy, value 1.00
attribute: Sweat Gatherer, value 197.63
attribute: Color Matching, value 1.00
attribute: Coloring, value 1.00
attribute: Make Clothes, value 131.67
attribute: Tailoring, value 27.91
attribute: Wood Carving, value 1.00
attribute: Wood Processing, value 1.00
attribute: Manufacture Attachments, value 39.94
attribute: Manufacture Electronic Equipment, value 224.18
attribute: Manufacture Mechanical Equipment, value 1469.86
attribute: Manufacture Metal Equipment, value 278.13
attribute: Manufacture Tools, value 1.00
attribute: Manufacture Weapons, value 329.94
attribute: Particle Beamer Weaponry Technology, value 1.00
attribute: Plasma Weaponry Technology, value 1298.68
attribute: Tools Technology, value 1.00
attribute: Weapon Technology, value 134.06
attribute: Armor Technology, value 1.00
attribute: Attachments Technology, value 9.52
attribute: BLP Weaponry Technology, value 2378.62
attribute: Blueprint Comprehension, value 359.93
attribute: Carpentry, value 1.00
attribute: Explosive Projectile Weaponry Technol, value 115.08
attribute: Gauss Weaponry Technology, value 1.00
attribute: Laser Weaponry Technology, value 6628.01
attribute: Machinery, value 95.90
attribute: Manufacture Armor, value 1.00
attribute: Calypso Ground Assessment, value 1039.22
attribute: Drilling, value 2812.55
attribute: Extraction, value 1219.75
attribute: Geology, value 2218.37
attribute: Metallurgy, value 126.35
attribute: Mining, value 2836.66
attribute: Prospecting, value 2414.90
attribute: Surveying, value 2515.06
attribute: Mentor, value 13.18
attribute: Probing, value 71.30
attribute: Scan Animal, value 63.48
attribute: Scan Human, value 353.85
attribute: Scan Mutant, value 1.00
attribute: Scan Robot, value 64.47
attribute: Zoology, value 70.34
attribute: Analysis, value 128.00
attribute: Animal Lore, value 119.42
attribute: Animal Taming, value 79.50
attribute: Biology, value 86.91
attribute: Botany, value 13.59
attribute: Computer, value 1280.23
attribute: Electronics, value 94.51
attribute: Engineering, value 1863.93
attribute: Genetics, value 1.00
attribute: Mechanics, value 829.58
attribute: Anatomy, value 6023.58
attribute: Diagnosis, value 950.56
attribute: First Aid, value 2532.88
attribute: Medicine, value 177.18
attribute: Dispense Decoy, value 1.00
attribute: Dodge, value 1533.95
attribute: Evade, value 2984.98
attribute: Whip, value 70.13
attribute: Marksmanship, value 5399.55
attribute: Martial Arts, value 701.14
attribute: Melee Combat, value 2108.96
attribute: Melee Damage Assessment, value 1479.56
attribute: Power Fist, value 952.78
attribute: Ranged Damage Assessment, value 4999.41
attribute: Rifle, value 4856.51
attribute: Shortblades, value 1494.96
attribute: Support Weapon Systems, value 90.90
attribute: Weapons Handling, value 4414.67
attribute: Aim, value 3396.91
attribute: Clubs, value 441.31
attribute: Combat Reflexes, value 3671.15
attribute: Handgun, value 5929.33
attribute: Heavy Melee Weapons, value 1350.01
attribute: Heavy Weapons, value 1.00
attribute: Inflict Melee Damage, value 1273.86
attribute: Inflict Ranged Damage, value 3561.07
attribute: Light Melee Weapons, value 501.86
attribute: Longblades, value 3908.84
attribute: Alertness, value 2448.62
attribute: Athletics, value 2450.39
attribute: Bravado, value 1474.85
attribute: Coolness, value 2449.93
attribute: Courage, value 3455.58
attribute: Dexterity, value 3114.11
attribute: Perception, value 2879.88
attribute: Serendipity, value 3604.49

Total skill count = 122163.55


Chipping optimizer gives me 145.67 for first set and 145.76 for second set. The health gain was shortly after first set taken. So for me Chipping optimizer is ~0.3 to low, very good I think.


PS: In Switzerland we use a point as decimal separator.
 
Thanks Raffaele :)

Update on engineering:

Just did a ~300 click run on some jesters. Had 3 engineering skill gains all of which failed the fap test, as did all the other skills gained.

[73% of tt back with next to no skills but max cos BP. Kinda asking myself why I didn't do filters lol. Maybe noob crafters fund Atrox Young hofs :D]
 
Witte said:
Possibility: You start at 88.00
20agi + 20intel + 20psy + 20str + 9sta makes that 90.45. The link you give, it sais he gained 11int so that makes 91 exactly.
Click to expand...

tada :thumbup:
 
jdegre said:
i'm using a raw base of 89.
the tool overestimates at low HPs (<150-160) and underestimates at high HPs, so i used this base (instead of 88) because it seems to work as a better fit for a majority of avatars. i know it is incorrect, thou.
from the feedback i've received, my bet is also on the influence of attributes, which might be slightly off.
Click to expand...

It seems to be established that 88 is the base, so why use 89 to make up for what is probably other slight errors in health calculation? Seems like a bandaid solution...

(don't get me wrong, I think your application is awesome)
 
Xen said:
It seems to be established that 88 is the base, so why use 89 to make up for what is probably other slight errors in health calculation? Seems like a bandaid solution...

(don't get me wrong, I think your application is awesome)
Click to expand...

pretty simple. 89 seemed to give better results than 88 for the majority of avatars who provided me feedback.
i'm not sure what "bandaid" means... lol... but let's say it was an "interim" fix until more accurate data is available.
in any case, is 88 100% sure?.. i was under the impression that there could be even different bases from avatars pre and post "attribute nerf" (20 -> 1).
 
Jimmy B said:
Thanks Raffaele :)

Update on engineering:

Just did a ~300 click run on some jesters. Had 3 engineering skill gains all of which failed the fap test, as did all the other skills gained.

[73% of tt back with next to no skills but max cos BP. Kinda asking myself why I didn't do filters lol. Maybe noob crafters fund Atrox Young hofs :D]
Click to expand...

LOL

I proposed a while back that perhaps there's some threshold health gain where fapping isn't allowed (i mean, obviously there is due to the limits of computer representation of floating point numbers). It could be that contributions less than 1/1600 fall in that category.

I think it's more likely that eng doesn't give hp, though.

Xen said:
It seems to be established that 88 is the base, so why use 89 to make up for what is probably other slight errors in health calculation? Seems like a bandaid solution...

(don't get me wrong, I think your application is awesome)
Click to expand...

Well the system MG Mighty proposed works so well that it's difficult to believe there are fractional errors to the assignments. I'm really puzzled by this drift at higher skill levels, tbh.
 
jdegre said:
pretty simple. 89 seemed to give better results than 88 for the majority of avatars who provided me feedback.
i'm not sure what "bandaid" means... lol... but let's say it was an "interim" fix until more accurate data is available.
in any case, is 88 100% sure?.. i was under the impression that there could be even different bases from avatars pre and post "attribute nerf" (20 -> 1).
Click to expand...

For example, if you add 2 and 2 and keep getting 5, there is an error in your calculation and starting from 1 instead of 0 doesn't really fix the problem.
 
Xen said:
For example, if you add 2 and 2 and keep getting 5, there is an error in your calculation and starting from 1 instead of 0 doesn't really fix the problem.
Click to expand...

yes, i know what you meant; the thing is that i tried to keep separate the "academic research", and the application of it to the tool. the current knowledge of how HPs are gained works worse with 88 than 89 for a vast majority of users, so why should i keep the tool at 88 just because we suspect "it HAS to be 88, damn it"... :)
 
jdegre said:
yes, i know what you meant; the thing is that i tried to keep separate the "academic research", and the application of it to the tool. the current knowledge of how HPs are gained works worse with 88 than 89 for a vast majority of users, so why should i keep the tool at 88 just because we suspect "it HAS to be 88, damn it"... :)
Click to expand...

Hm, I guess I understand... you are trying to give people as accurate a result as possible at this time.
 
To be fair, for it to be exact we know it has to start below 89 since noobs start below 89 ;)

As to the uber-drift, I reckon there's some unlock we haven't accounted for, or haven't accounted for quite right.
 
Jimmy B said:
To be fair, for it to be exact we know it has to start below 89 since noobs start below 89 ;)

As to the uber-drift, I reckon there's some unlock we haven't accounted for, or haven't accounted for quite right.
Click to expand...

my bet would be on the effect on attributes, more than on unlockable skills. why? because if we try with an avatar with extremely high skills and plenty of unlocked skills, but with relatively low attribute levels, the results are almost spot on. almost no drift at all.
i have tried with neomaven's skills snapshot in wiki, and his HPs are at 319, while the tool calculates 319.67
otoh, very old players with very high attribute levels (and half the skills than neo) are reportedly the biggest source of error in HPs.

/jdegre.
 
Ah, OK jdegre thanks.

So yes, sounds like attributes maybe don't have a linear effect then. It could be a volume effect as we're discussing a bit in Doer's 'attribute ESI' thread.
 
so imagin i create a new avatar and buy 1600 courage and chip in i would stay with 93 hp ?? or it doesnt give automatically . i dont understand :scratch2:
 
club said:
so imagin i create a new avatar and buy 1600 courage and chip in i would stay with 93 hp ?? or it doesnt give automatically . i dont understand :scratch2:
Click to expand...

Yes, 1600 courage would take it from 88->93 (+5).
 
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