To auto-click, or not to auto-click...
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ZarathustrA
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I am definetly for attended auto-clicking. My hands can really get sore from all the clicking and esspecially if I just got done playing Counter-Strike for 6 hours. My sensitivity in that game is very low which results in tons of movement... my mousepad is 17"x13" to help you understand what i mean by tons of movement. 
I have only done one session of auto-clicking though, FAP skilling while I watched the heals go by listening to music.
Maybe I'll do more... right now the cost is a little bit much for me when it's not exactly fun.
As for unattended? I don't really know, I've never given thought to it. I might do it and I might not. I wouldn't ever think bad about anyone doing so though and I don't think anyone should ever be banned for running a simple mouseclicker (clicker, not macro! ..macros can be evil!).
The part in the COU isn't anything specific about auto-clickers and I think, as others have said, it's just their because .. well it should be! It gives them the right to take action when a damaging 3rd party software is made or abused. Such as programs to speed up your actions in the game (which people have been banned for) and other kinds of exploits/packet editing stuff. Going by just the text they could start banning everyone who uses software to overclock their video cards to run the game better.
Click away my friends.
P.S. Skam, sucks that you got something that just looks like an automatic copy/paste response. *sigh*
I have only done one session of auto-clicking though, FAP skilling while I watched the heals go by listening to music.
Maybe I'll do more... right now the cost is a little bit much for me when it's not exactly fun.
As for unattended? I don't really know, I've never given thought to it. I might do it and I might not. I wouldn't ever think bad about anyone doing so though and I don't think anyone should ever be banned for running a simple mouseclicker (clicker, not macro! ..macros can be evil!).
The part in the COU isn't anything specific about auto-clickers and I think, as others have said, it's just their because .. well it should be! It gives them the right to take action when a damaging 3rd party software is made or abused. Such as programs to speed up your actions in the game (which people have been banned for) and other kinds of exploits/packet editing stuff. Going by just the text they could start banning everyone who uses software to overclock their video cards to run the game better.
Click away my friends.
P.S. Skam, sucks that you got something that just looks like an automatic copy/paste response. *sigh*
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raeky
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1. autoclickers definitely violat the COU, ask mindark if your unsure. (Skam posted their canned response anyway, you'll get the exact same response if you do a support case too).
2. autoclickers are detectable. Mindark can search your memory for popular automation programs (autoit or whatever), they can time the interval between clicks, a program will be exact, a user clicking won't. They can then spawn a community rep next to you and ask you if your idle or not.. There are ways to detect it if they wanted too.. And definitely if they search your memory (100% legal).
I think that some actions in the game should be allowed to be automated. Like crafting, you should be able to put in your materials and click a "Auto" button and it will chew on them until they run out or you idle off in 15 minutes. The other things people automate, tools (scanners, faps) and weapons, you could maybe get an auto-attachment that will make it so you can keep fireing the tool/weapon without having to click each time. This tool would decay. You'll still be subject to the 15 minute timeout.
Then they should actively start banning for running third-party clickers.
2. autoclickers are detectable. Mindark can search your memory for popular automation programs (autoit or whatever), they can time the interval between clicks, a program will be exact, a user clicking won't. They can then spawn a community rep next to you and ask you if your idle or not.. There are ways to detect it if they wanted too.. And definitely if they search your memory (100% legal).
I think that some actions in the game should be allowed to be automated. Like crafting, you should be able to put in your materials and click a "Auto" button and it will chew on them until they run out or you idle off in 15 minutes. The other things people automate, tools (scanners, faps) and weapons, you could maybe get an auto-attachment that will make it so you can keep fireing the tool/weapon without having to click each time. This tool would decay. You'll still be subject to the 15 minute timeout.
Then they should actively start banning for running third-party clickers.
Muppis
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raeky said:
Well, if they would like to access my computer they are welcome in. Since i log every IP which trys to access my computer. We are in sweden and we got diffrent laws then US
raeky
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Muppis said:
They're allowed to examin your memory space, and that would be done with the PE client. I'm sure it already does it. ;-)
Its completely legal, and every other online game in existance does it. All blizzard games scans the memory for known hacks when you connect, heck blizzard even sends you a binary file you execute everytime you connect to battle.net that contains scanning procedures.
Its nothing new, and its a stanard in the gaming industry. When you agree to the COU agreement your also agreeing for mindark to examine your memory for hacks. They don't scan your computer files on the hard drive, but they watch what is loaded in memory and what is touching the PE memory areas.
Svetlana
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WOW!
I go away for a day and return to a great little conversation going on in my thread
.... yay! Thx all!
I think it's unrealistic of MA to say that they ban all 3rd party software.... this discussion happened on EP months ago and every1 for the most part was laughing... "3rd party software" is far too vague and broad a term....
Now- they have come out against auto-clickers, as Raeky (and Skam in her support to them) pointed out.
Here's something I do not like that some of you touched upon..... if MA feels sooooooo strongly, they need to do something. And b/c of the enormous number of players that use autoclickers I think it would behove both MA and the community if they just set a date as some1 suggested earlier and said "From the moment on, no more a.c.'s"
In any event, they most definitely need an ingame device for crafting as Raeky suggested. ANd frankly, I think mining and skilling in the ring should also be granted such a device.... and until MA gets off their HIGH HORSE and DOES SOMETHING ppl are going to be AC'ing away
I go away for a day and return to a great little conversation going on in my thread
.... yay! Thx all!I think it's unrealistic of MA to say that they ban all 3rd party software.... this discussion happened on EP months ago and every1 for the most part was laughing... "3rd party software" is far too vague and broad a term....
Now- they have come out against auto-clickers, as Raeky (and Skam in her support to them) pointed out.
Here's something I do not like that some of you touched upon..... if MA feels sooooooo strongly, they need to do something. And b/c of the enormous number of players that use autoclickers I think it would behove both MA and the community if they just set a date as some1 suggested earlier and said "From the moment on, no more a.c.'s"
In any event, they most definitely need an ingame device for crafting as Raeky suggested. ANd frankly, I think mining and skilling in the ring should also be granted such a device.... and until MA gets off their HIGH HORSE and DOES SOMETHING ppl are going to be AC'ing away
ZarathustrA
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NoBion(From EP) said:
This was also a support case someone received asking about Teamspeak/Ventrilo. This answer is very similar to Skam's in the sense that it just looks like they read it.. and copy/pasted an answer. I don't think Skam's response shows what MA thinks about Autoclickers more than this shows what they think about being able to voice chat with friends while you play. The thing in the COU is in every games COU because, as said before, it should be. Now if Marco wants to come here and give an intelligent response as opposed to basing our gameplay off of support automatic answers then I would be happy.
As of right now.. it's unsafe to run anything on your computer with PE because they might ban you.
raeky
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most like the support person had no idea what was ment by "voice program" and therefore gave a canned response about third-party software in the off chance "voice program" ment something that interacted with PE. ;-)
Skam
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Im kinda annoyed by the answer I got in support, simply because it seemed they read "autoclicker" then didnt bother to read rest and just copied a answer. I didnt expect any sympahty and I think maybe Id be annoyed if they wrote that to me but I would expect a bit better answer.
I tried using other mouses. Usual, Logitech's Ergonomic's and those joystick-looking ones. But it still relies on the same movement in the limb so the only answer is really to get something to click for me.
Or maybe I should start hunting berycleds with plasma?
I mean, seriously. MA should soon make a intelligent statement about the case, and I would really love to hear an explanation on the health-purposes of autoclicking.
IDEAS ON HOW TO SOLVE THIS?
Ok how about this:
With the new: "log off after 10 minutes system" say you have to do more then clicking the mouse to stay online, but also, as I suggsted before, detect movement of the mouse.
If a movement isnt detected during 10 minutes you get logged off! Then MA wont have to worry about unattended autoclicking, and if they are postive about the healthissues on autoclicker-use (didnt seem like it tho in my supportcase...) attended autoclicking could be possible without violating the EULA.
I tried using other mouses. Usual, Logitech's Ergonomic's and those joystick-looking ones. But it still relies on the same movement in the limb so the only answer is really to get something to click for me.
Or maybe I should start hunting berycleds with plasma?
I mean, seriously. MA should soon make a intelligent statement about the case, and I would really love to hear an explanation on the health-purposes of autoclicking.
IDEAS ON HOW TO SOLVE THIS?
Ok how about this:
With the new: "log off after 10 minutes system" say you have to do more then clicking the mouse to stay online, but also, as I suggsted before, detect movement of the mouse.
If a movement isnt detected during 10 minutes you get logged off! Then MA wont have to worry about unattended autoclicking, and if they are postive about the healthissues on autoclicker-use (didnt seem like it tho in my supportcase...) attended autoclicking could be possible without violating the EULA.
Franck
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Here's how they translated the support case :raeky said:
TRANSLATION PROTOCOL 882 HELLO
LOGGING *********:******* (censored
)Support Case No. 1889102834_002_8
Date detected, 2004-12-27
Player with high deposit potential detected, increasing answer speed parameter.
Greetings word detected, increasing style parameter.
Program word detected, adding parameters and launching auto-answer...
Additional parameters : style = formal, answer speed = fast.
Sending... Done.
TRANSLATION PROTOCOL 882 GOODBYE.
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Skam
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Franck said:Here's how they translated the support case :
TRANSLATION PROTOCOL 882 HELLO
LOGGING *********:******* (censored
Support Case No. 1889102834_002_8
Date detected, 2004-12-27
Great player with high deposit potential detected, increasing answer speed parameter.
Greetings word detected, increasing style parameter.
Program word detected, adding parameters and launching auto-answer...
Additional parameters : style = formal, answer speed = fast.
Sending... Done.
TRANSLATION PROTOCOL 882 GOODBYE.
good one
maniac
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I am against auto clickers, but it's like being a mosquito against a whale.
I skill up in active hunt, exercise combat strategy and 3D shooter tactics.
I think autoclicking is boring and uncreative, but I don't sue people for it.
However, they do serve me one good purpose in the field. When I see someone afk, skilling with a fap, with a flock of mobs around him - he makes a nice decoy and I kill all the mobs. One in a dozen usually ends up looting good.
I skill up in active hunt, exercise combat strategy and 3D shooter tactics.
I think autoclicking is boring and uncreative, but I don't sue people for it.
However, they do serve me one good purpose in the field. When I see someone afk, skilling with a fap, with a flock of mobs around him - he makes a nice decoy and I kill all the mobs. One in a dozen usually ends up looting good.
iwasinnamuknow
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maniac said:
having had someone run up and kill mobs while i was actively clicking with my own finger, I wonder how do you know beforehand that they are afk?
i'm not complaining because now I go somewhere a hell of a lot quieter and now it's fine....
ZarathustrA
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raeky said:
I don't think that was very relevant.. he was saying that maniac kills the mobs because he assumes people are AFK skilling.
ZarathustrA
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starman said:I don´t like it....I prefer to be present when I get my skills
..and your thoughts on attended autoclicking?
Cindywood
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its very easy to make a MACRO that even runs around doing stuff ;P so you cant basicly do that
Theoretically you can even make a macro that runs around sweating sweating a mob dry and then goes for the nxt one, assuming they stand were you want em to stand =D meaning u only have to find some autoclickers and poff ur little awy will run around sweating from their mobs =Dif they would intruduce that u have to move and click every 10 mins then im sure lots of ppl would just make a macro that simly presses ASDW every 10 mins..
otherwise good suggestion
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I personally have used an auto-clicker in the past, mostly skilling fap of course. The thing about auto-clickers is that;
So if MA only makes money on decay, see second bullet. I doubt they will stop ppl from auto-clicking for this reason.
On the other hand there are ways that MA can stop ppl from using macro programs, most of which are check functions they can implement while you are at the log in screen. I know there are other games out that use hack check software to look for hack programs while loading. If MA wanted to its not that hard, yet they haven't done it yet, hmmm. You think they are gonna start now?
Thats my 2 cents worth, you can keep the soapbox!
- Auto-clickers work faster than your finger does.
- Fap auto-clickers can spend up to 180 ped on decay, which IMO is more than most ppl spend on decay hunting.
- Auto-clickers optimize skilling fists(I know I can't keep up with the rechange rate of an aggressio on a consistant basis.
So if MA only makes money on decay, see second bullet. I doubt they will stop ppl from auto-clicking for this reason.
On the other hand there are ways that MA can stop ppl from using macro programs, most of which are check functions they can implement while you are at the log in screen. I know there are other games out that use hack check software to look for hack programs while loading. If MA wanted to its not that hard, yet they haven't done it yet, hmmm. You think they are gonna start now?
Thats my 2 cents worth, you can keep the soapbox!
iwasinnamuknow
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Spider said:
yea i think CS was the first game to use MRPs to scan address space for cheats etc....ppl used to use aimbot all the time...but now there is secure/nonsecure options for each server....
ofc there wouldn't be a choice....
but as far as using the timing to detect....it is trivial to have the interval randomised + or - one micro/pico second...depending on your coding level (not ability level, software level)....
just give me vi, nasm and a kernel
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Just a thought for those who use autoclickers...
Last night while standing at Billies chastizing the people exploiting the skilling bug there a mystery person came up and chatted me.
Mystery Person: Hey DD
DD: Hey
Mystery Person: Don't stress about these people exploiting this bug.
DD: It just bothers me when ppl cheat is all.
Mystery Person: Well, I hear MA is going to ban/punish all of the people exploiting it and start punishing for those who use auto-clickers too.
DD: Hmm, that would be a nice change
Mystery Person: ,-) Don't stress out about it. It will be fixed shortly...
DD: ok, thanks
end chat
Now, I had never seen this person before. They logging in right in front of me and then logged out a few minutes later. Today I hear of bannings for the skill exploit. I just think autoclickers may want to beware....
I know many of my good frineds use one and don't want to see anyone get locked.
DD
Last night while standing at Billies chastizing the people exploiting the skilling bug there a mystery person came up and chatted me.
Mystery Person: Hey DD
DD: Hey
Mystery Person: Don't stress about these people exploiting this bug.
DD: It just bothers me when ppl cheat is all.
Mystery Person: Well, I hear MA is going to ban/punish all of the people exploiting it and start punishing for those who use auto-clickers too.
DD: Hmm, that would be a nice change
Mystery Person: ,-) Don't stress out about it. It will be fixed shortly...
DD: ok, thanks
end chat
Now, I had never seen this person before. They logging in right in front of me and then logged out a few minutes later. Today I hear of bannings for the skill exploit. I just think autoclickers may want to beware....
I know many of my good frineds use one and don't want to see anyone get locked.
DD
Svetlana
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Devil Doll said:I know many of my good frineds use one and don't want to see anyone get locked.
DD
Well therein lies the problem for MA.... I wonder how many ppl in their playerbase would be banned for the use of AC's?... I think, by percentage, it would be VERY high. So I doubt MA WOULD do it, even though they potentially COULD
If they ban them (and I personally think they can serve a useful purpose as many ppl have already pointed out) then the least MA should do for both the community and the MA bankroll is to give a date and after that ban.
But- if they do stop the use of them I think they really ought to consider implementing an in game clicker for mining, crafting, etc.
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Yeah, i noticed that too. Though I don't think it was him. What was really odd was that I told the skillers to Take A Pill and then this person named "Pill" logged in and chatted me...
*cues Twighlight Zone theme music*
DD
*cues Twighlight Zone theme music*
DD
Skam
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Devil Doll said:Yeah, i noticed that too. Though I don't think it was him. What was really odd was that I told the skillers to Take A Pill and then this person named "Pill" logged in and chatted me...
*cues Twighlight Zone theme music*
DD
thats... scary!
D
Dirk
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I work on a simple rule "Everyone always has a gun to your head - your job is to avoid gving them ammunition"
By this, I mean that if you auto click, then you give the chance to MA for them to ban you. If you dont autoclick, they cant. Simple really.
If you worry about the rules, then follow them, not to the letter but to the intention.
By this, I mean that if you auto click, then you give the chance to MA for them to ban you. If you dont autoclick, they cant. Simple really.
If you worry about the rules, then follow them, not to the letter but to the intention.
Svetlana
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OK- to be a little more specific with my original intention of this thread...
we all know the rules (well most of us anyway ). I'm more interested in the idea of auto-clicking as a valid means of doing certain tasks in PE.
Should MA consider having an ingame AC for things like extracting, crafting, etc?
we all know the rules (well most of us anyway
). I'm more interested in the idea of auto-clicking as a valid means of doing certain tasks in PE.Should MA consider having an ingame AC for things like extracting, crafting, etc?
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Svetlana said:
For extraction the drilltowers could be brought back, sure, the old way you wouldnt loose any decay, but maybe having some window pop up when claiming a big deposit that asked if you would like to buy a drilltower for a certain amount of peds or extract manually.
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