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Impact of skills on professions

jdegre said:
got some help from an uber, who kindly sent me some uber-data :)

this is what i got regarding intuition:

Psychotropian (Hit): 3%
Pyrotropian (Hit): 3%
Biotropian: 3%
Reviver: 3%
Teleporter: 2%

(already added to chipping optimizer).

also confirmed that the current %'s breakdown for evader and dodger is correct (there was a controversy around evader and high-intuition avas, but the data i received was accurate up to +- 0.01 for a >5k intuition ava).
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Nice one jdegre. New percentages added on the appropriate pages. Thanks for confirming the old evader/dodger numbers too.

Quite interesting how Intuition contributes to the MF ones too. Presumably then it can also be unlocked with MF. That's quite a lot of Mindforce unlocks, MF Harmony (50 Hit?), Force Merge (70 Hit?), Intuition (80 Hit?).

Getting to lvl 80 Evader though, how is it done? Did it evade related stuff use to skill faster naturally, or has everyone who's got it chipped in? Going by my skill gain rate, even if I'd been logged in continually since Project Entropia's first day I wouldn't have reached it yet.
 
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Great thread I just found it. Sure to be a great help to people! Thanks for the work of which I am usually to lazy or time constrained to do.
 
Jimmy B said:
...
Getting to lvl 80 Evader though, how is it done? Did it evade related stuff use to skill faster naturally, or has everyone who's got it chipped in? Going by my skill gain rate, even if I'd been logged in continually since Project Entropia's first day I wouldn't have reached it yet.
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Evade was ofc also affected by the big skill gain nerf (and the smaller ones before that)...

But most important part I think, is that it used to be possible to afk skill with a mod fap and a big group of mobs. Some people with very high evade/dodge and medic skills are quite (in)famous for doing this day in and day out.
 
Vedder said:
Evade was ofc also affected by the big skill gain nerf (and the smaller ones before that)...

But most important part I think, is that it used to be possible to afk skill with a mod fap and a big group of mobs. Some people with very high evade/dodge and medic skills are quite (in)famous for doing this day in and day out.
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Yeah, think I just fancied having a whine at the impossibility of ever getting there now :D Chipping Optimiser reckons I could have chipped to my current Evader proffesion standing at the cost of $750 and that to progress to unlocking intuition would cost a mere $35215 more :rofl:
 
Jimmy B said:
Yeah, think I just fancied having a whine at the impossibility of ever getting there now :D Chipping Optimiser reckons I could have chipped to my current Evader proffesion standing at the cost of $750 and that to progress to unlocking intuition would cost a mere $35215 more :rofl:
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So you see what present some players got by MA besides the mod fap etc. etc. etc.
 
i don't think we are making this outstanding thread a favor if we start complaining about how ubers gained their uber-ness unfairly, instead of celebrating that we are closer and closer to solve all professions.
so, may i propose to get back to work, and focus on solving the texture professions instead??? :D
 
jdegre said:
i don't think we are making this outstanding thread a favor if we start complaining about how ubers gained their uber-ness unfairly, instead of celebrating that we are closer and closer to solve all professions.
so, may i propose to get back to work, and focus on solving the texture professions instead??? :D
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Agreed jdegre, sorry my fault. It wasn't my intention to bring up old players who've gotten a great head start, more was having a small grumble at how slow it is to skill that particular profession these days. Without the players who were there on day 1 there'd be no EU now, I don't have any issue with them having a nice headstart.

Anyway yes, it'd be great to solve the texture professions. I guess the skills involved are rather expensive ones to chip, so unless someone is planning to chip some of them, the easiest way forward is probably for people who have a reasonable amount of the relevant skills to upload their skills to wiki using the skill scanner (or just post the relevant skill levels here) and post a picture of the relevant profession screens here.

The reason its taken a long time to get anywhere on this I guess, is that we need quite a few data sets really, and obviously there's not a huge number of people skilling those professions. But as soon as the data starts rolling in I'll happily get to work!
 
Nadie chipped out huge amounts of texturizing related skills, too bad we had no thread to collect chipping data by then. So, who's gonna start one? :D

And i have first data for Material Comprehension: ~ 7%
(estimated, pro standing taken from % of a higher SIB so +/-0.05 Levels)
 
wizzszz said:
And i have first data for Material Comprehension: ~ 7%
(estimated, pro standing taken from % of a higher SIB so +/-0.05 Levels)
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Sorry wizz don't quite understand the bracketted part - how did you get the estimate exactly?
 
Jimmy B said:
Sorry wizz don't quite understand the bracketted part - how did you get the estimate exactly?
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I'll send you an email later with some screenies.
Calced it wrong anyway, 108 points = 0.15 pro standing levels isn't 7%, but more like 14%.

Note to self: No math when tired.


/Edit: Email sent
 
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good thread thank you
 
wizzszz said:
I'll send you an email later with some screenies.
Calced it wrong anyway, 108 points = 0.15 pro standing levels isn't 7%, but more like 14%.

Note to self: No math when tired.


/Edit: Email sent
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Cheers wizz, 14% looks right but as 108 is a little low we'll keep the possibility of 13% and 15% open (looking at the screens you sent, I think its either 13% or 14%) until we get some verification there.
 
Jimmy B said:
Cheers wizz, 14% looks right but as 108 is a little low we'll keep the possibility of 13% and 15% open (looking at the screens you sent, I think its either 13% or 14%) until we get some verification there.
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I think we can exclude 15%, but 13% is still possible, yes.

If i could get more datasets, i guess i could figure out the contributions of Tailor/Make Textile/Color matching/Carpenter "by hand", especially some sets with only 1 in some of the skills would be helpful, the chance to have enough data from chipping is small.
(my color matching is quite off, should be possible to eliminate one of the variables with 2 more datasets)
 
Thanks a ton for this thread, it was a godsend in helping me chip in earlier today :)
 
i have made a small program that tries to figure out the %'s by "brute force", trying all possible (integer) combinations, until a good fit is found. the program takes a set of initial %'s, and an offset, and then tries all possible permutations of the initial % +- offset for all involved skills.

i just have 3 data sets so far, and i have found several sets of %'s that look kinda ok (after more than 7 million permutations); the %'s are shown in this order:

Profession: Material Manufacturer

- Intelligence
- Texture Engineering
- Blueprint Comprehension
- Carpentry
- Make Textile
- Tailoring
- Engineering
- Material Extraction Methodology

candidates:
{ 3, 37, 5, 2, 10, 3, 20, 9 }
{ 3, 38, 7, 2, 8, 8, 19, 3 }
{ 3, 39, 5, 2, 10, 3, 20, 4 }
{ 3, 40, 5, 1, 10, 3, 20, 3 }

all of them predict the profession levels with <0.01 level, but obviously 3 data sets is nothing.

so, i'd like other people with data sets to confirm any of these %'s to see if they get a good fit. also, it would be great if people with decent levels in this profession could share their skill and profession levels, either posting or via PM.
 
Hehe nice, that's kinda like my original method for laser sniper. Just watch out for inaccurate data rofl, it really messes things up :D

Anyway yeah, people please do post your skills if you have any.

Any use posting mine jdegre? I have nothing from that list except Intelligence and Engineering.
 
Jimmy B said:
Hehe nice, that's kinda like my original method for laser sniper. Just watch out for inaccurate data rofl, it really messes things up :D
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these data comes from screens that i have received and parsed myself, so it could be slightly inaccurate but, at least, i can be sure that all errors are on my side :D

Jimmy B said:
Anyway yeah, people please do post your skills if you have any.

Any use posting mine jdegre? I have nothing from that list except Intelligence and Engineering.
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if you have many 1's in these skills, and a high level in engineering, for instance, then yes, it is worth it to post it, together with the profession level.

unfortunately i have not even achieved any of these professions, since i have never touched a BP, so.... :laugh:
 
jdegre said:
if you have many 1's in these skills, and a high level in engineering, for instance, then yes, it is worth it to post it, together with the profession level.

unfortunately i have not even achieved any of these professions, since i have never touched a BP, so.... :laugh:
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OK - I'll post mine shortly. I have a reasonable amount of engineering I think and next to nothing in the rest so maybe its useful for pinning down Intel and Engineering for certain.

I have not unlocked the Designer one myself. Which I guess maybe tells us something too. Did we decide it unlocks at 0.1 levels, I forget?
 
Coloring 1.0
Carpentry 1.0
Fashion Design -
Texture Pattern Matching 1.0
Material Comprehension -
Surface Comprehension -
Quality Sense -
Color Matching 1.0
Make Textile 8.8
Tailoring 4.125
Intelligence 51.3
Texture Engineering 1.0
BPC -
Material Extraction Methodology -
Engineering 622.4

(I used lazy ruler-on-monitor method but should be accurate enough for our purposes I presume)

Material Designer profession is not unlocked
Material Manufacturer profession is precisely at level 1 and 32 pixels (out of 124 iirc?).
 
jdegre said:
i just have 3 data sets so far, and i have found several sets of %'s that look kinda ok (after more than 7 million permutations); the %'s are shown in this order:

Profession: Material Manufacturer

- Intelligence
- Texture Engineering
- Blueprint Comprehension
- Carpentry
- Make Textile
- Tailoring
- Engineering
- Material Extraction Methodology
Click to expand...

Are you 100% sure intelligence contributes to Material Manufacturer?
Haven't done much clicks yet, but i'm quite sure Material Designer has no contribution at all from attributes.

My Material Manufacturer skills are quite low, pro standing is around 4.2, but most of it comes from secondary skills, Texture Engineering is 130-ish only atm, dunno if they are useful.
 
wizzszz said:
Are you 100% sure intelligence contributes to Material Manufacturer?
Haven't done much clicks yet, but i'm quite sure Material Designer has no contribution at all from attributes.

My Material Manufacturer skills are quite low, pro standing is around 4.2, but most of it comes from secondary skills, Texture Engineering is 130-ish only atm, dunno if they are useful.
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no, not sure at all about attributes and skills involved in each profession; i just took the list from a previous post in this thread.
 
jdegre said:
no, not sure at all about attributes and skills involved in each profession; i just took the list from a previous post in this thread.
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in any case, the program i talked about can detect if an attribute or skill does not influence at all, if we set an initial % estimation and an offset in the same range. for instance, i found a set that matches my previous 3 data sets and jimmy's within 0.01 precision:

{0, 35, 7, 1, 11, 6, 20, 7}

which means that intel % would be 0, i.e., does not have any influence. there were other sets that did a match, thou, so we cannot rule it out yet.

i think that with a few more data sets we could have this nailed down. we'll see...
 
jdegre said:
no, not sure at all about attributes and skills involved in each profession; i just took the list from a previous post in this thread.
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It is listed on entropedia w/o any attributes, too, and didn't have any attribute gains from Material Designer in >5K clicks, so i guess that quite sure.
Maybe someone else can confirm this.

I guess my skills are too low to be of any help :(
(Almost all of the 4.2 levels is gained from secondary skills)
 
wizzszz said:
It is listed on entropedia w/o any attributes, too, and didn't have any attribute gains from Material Designer in >5K clicks, so i guess that quite sure.
Maybe someone else can confirm this.

I guess my skills are too low to be of any help :(
(Almost all of the 4.2 levels is gained from secondary skills)
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assuming the info from entropedia is right, i've set 0% for intel, and 20% for engineering; i've widened the range for the offset in the rest of skills, and still i have something like 30-40 matching sets.

please, could you post your data set(s) wizzszz, so i can enter them into the program, and see if this narrows down the matches?

edit: the previous set i posted: {0, 35, 7, 1, 11, 6, 20, 7} meets the criteria of 0% intel, and 20% engineering, and looks very promising...
 
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jdegre said:
assuming the info from entropedia is right, i've set 0% for intel, and 20% for engineering; i've widen the range for the offset in the rest of skills, and still i have something like 30-40 matching sets.

please, could you post your data set(s) wizzszz, so i can enter them into the program, and see if this narrows down the matches?
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Will do that in about 1 hour, can't go ingame atm.

In the meantime maybe consider concentrating on skillsets without unlocks first, to lower the number of variables, and as you referred to it as "brute force method", maybe this link is helpful, it's a well known local search method you're using there! ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_climbing
 
wizzszz said:
Will do that in about 1 hour, can't go ingame atm.

In the meantime maybe consider concentrating on skillsets without unlocks first, to lower the number of variables, and as you referred to it as "brute force method", maybe this link is helpful, it's a well known local search method you're using there! ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_climbing
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hehehe, that's _exactly_ the method i'm using :)
i start with a set of %'s assigned with more or less "common sense", and then move each % by integer steps up and down from the initial % (within a range of +- offset, to limit the search space).

of course it'd be better to start with skillsets without unlocks, but usually these sets have very low skill values, and therefore, the precision of the calcs is lower too. in any case, all skill sets are valid for testing and double checks, so... post your skill sets asap guys!
 
In two of my snapshots for texture manufacturing, i had a small int gain. It could have been an artifact (one of my computers scans skills slightly differently).
 
Not really sure about Material designer....
I "unlocked" it in my professions when grinding Material manufacturer and hitting level 2.5.
I am not really sure if it is strictly tailoring related, have not done much of that but I level it. Then again, you also level tailoring with material manufacturing.
Also the wiki is surely wrong about intelligence part in material manufacturer, I had several skill ups while grinding, impact was not really noticable though.
I would assume about 30 skill ups in intelligence to get a generic leather BP up to QR80 and they gave me maybe all in all 1/2 level in INT.
Got some scans saved if needed.
 
I badgered Oleg in-game to post some data when he has the chance, he does a bit of skilling in textures and stuff so that'll hopefully be useful.
 
Ok, i've scanned my skills with the current skill scanner release (awsome job again, btw) and updated entropedia.
(Skills available from here)

My pro standing bar suffered a bit from the jpeg compression, not sure why EF doesn't support .png files.

mat_manu.jpg


I've kept a bmp screenie of the pro standing, in case the compressed version is too blurred.
Hope it helps!

And didn't Doer already nail Engineering down to 20%?

Doer said:
Engineering: 20%
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