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Richard Devil said:
Its not a scam, if thats what you are asking, and it is great for eu community.
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How is continuous reselling and manipulation of the market good for the EU community?

How is artificially raising the market price of rare or semi-rare items good for the EU community?

This is what you're doing, right? If not, perhaps you could give us some examples of the trades you are making in order to increase the value of the portfolio. What items are you trading in?
 
Oleg said:
How is continuous reselling and manipulation of the market good for the EU community?

How is artificially raising the market price of rare or semi-rare items good for the EU community?

This is what you're doing, right? If not, perhaps you could give us some examples of the trades you are making in order to increase the value of the portfolio. What items are you trading in?
Click to expand...

I could give u a full list of activities in which im involved as far as trading goes, however its a traders secret. I can explain to u how i make money, but then u can make the same money.
But the items i trade in, well it depends.

But hold on let me just get to the point of resselling and manipulation, first of all it doesnt not always raise the price. Simple example, if there is a surplus ( to much items in the market for the demand, the price falls) ressellers buy the items to sell at a later date, if there is a shortage ( to little items in the market for the demand, the price rises) ressellers sell items. This way the keep the price more stable, it doesnt drop to low, and doesnt rise to high.

That is how resselling is beneficial, without for example me buying 1000ped worth of good a right now, when i know it will go up, a crafter will most likely pay 800ped, and use it right now. However later instead of me selling my good a for 1500 when there is none on the auction, a miner will sell when he gets for more most likely. So the price goes from 1000ped to 1500ped, instead of 800 ped to 1700 ped. This is just an example, in the game the numbers would be different, but the effect the same.
 
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Ok but the point here is, are u questioning whether i make money, or whether i provide a service to the community?

If you hate ressellers, would u want to have profit from them? There are many ressellers out there that will be making tons of money of eu, and not giving anything back. But i on the other hand will be handing back in terms of interest, part of the money i make. And you saying that is bad?

I make money, you make money, the money stays in the game, and most importantly the economy, the rotation of the money continues.
Whats the problem here?

I dont see why this service is not beneficial to the community.
 
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If it look's like a kipper smell's like a kipper and taste's like a kipper.

Then by power of the lord jesus christ almighty it's a god damned kipper.

Now unless you like fish leave it alone.

Regard's
Lee
 
Richard Devil said:
Ok but the point here is, are u questioning whether i make money, or whether i provide a service to the community?...
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Nah, we have no doubt that you'll make money.
The question is how many investors will lose money. :)

The "fishy-list":
- Too good to be true? Fishy.
- It's a trade business secret how you make you money? Hmm... Even fishier.
- Why share your sure profit with others? Just invest 100k yourself, and get all the profits yourself? Hmm.. Smelly too.
- Guaranties not to lose the investment??? :scratch2: Aw, come on.

I'm sorry if you're not a scammer... But I really doubt that.
Nothing personal.
 
Richard Devil said:
I could give u a full list of activities in which im involved as far as trading goes, however its a traders secret. I can explain to u how i make money, but then u can make the same money.
But the items i trade in, well it depends.

But hold on let me just get to the point of resselling and manipulation, first of all it doesnt not always raise the price. Simple example, if there is a surplus ( to much items in the market for the demand, the price falls) ressellers buy the items to sell at a later date, if there is a shortage ( to little items in the market for the demand, the price rises) ressellers sell items. This way the keep the price more stable, it doesnt drop to low, and doesnt rise to high.

That is how resselling is beneficial, without for example me buying 1000ped worth of good a right now, when i know it will go up, a crafter will most likely pay 800ped, and use it right now. However later instead of me selling my good a for 1500 when there is none on the auction, a miner will sell when he gets for more most likely. So the price goes from 1000ped to 1500ped, instead of 800 ped to 1700 ped. This is just an example, in the game the numbers would be different, but the effect the same.
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So are you saying that you only trade in 'resources' rather than 'equipment'? i.e. Do you only trade in stackable-type items such as ores or tailoring materials, or do you also buy weapons and armour, for example?

If it's the former, you are a trader. If it's the latter, you are a re-seller. Which are you?
 
Vedder said:
Nah, we have no doubt that you'll make money.
The question is how many investors will lose money. :)

The "fishy-list":
- Too good to be true? Fishy.
- It's a trade business secret how you make you money? Hmm... Even fishier.
- Why share your sure profit with others? Just invest 100k yourself, and get all the profits yourself? Hmm.. Smelly too.
- Guaranties not to lose the investment??? :scratch2: Aw, come on.

I'm sorry if you're not a scammer... But I really doubt that.
Nothing personal.
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1. Anything of this sort would sound to good to be true, why? Because this is the first of its kind i believe in eu. BTW its been running for 3 months, one investor already cashed out, i can ask him to post here, he knew me for a while too, and is resepctable in the community.
2. Go ask a trader, who do u sell ur stuff too, answer right away, crafter. But i estimate that 90% of the time they sell to the auction, just like any1 can do. Why keep it secret? dunno maybe so the person doesnt have more competition, and has more suppliers?
3. If i had 100k, i wouldnt even bother with something like this. A bank would definetly not give a loan when u just mention real cash economy game. Besides im not the only one who is doing this, Virtual Fond, related but a bit different. Besides the obvious similarities, where u trust the person with the money, u got the auctual chance of loosing money if the shares drop in value, by just people cashing out.
4.I aggre this part sounds weird, but i know ways where i profit for sure, just because i provide the service of the trader.

No problem with you doubting me, this universe is full of scammers, so any honest idea coming out has to be checked and rechecked, to make sure it safe.
 
Oleg said:
So are you saying that you only trade in 'resources' rather than 'equipment'? i.e. Do you only trade in stackable-type items such as ores or tailoring materials, or do you also buy weapons and armour, for example?

If it's the former, you are a trader. If it's the latter, you are a re-seller. Which are you?
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So lets say i buy weapons/armours from a crafter and sell it to hunters from a shop or on the street, am i a trader or a resseller?
 
Richard Devil said:
So lets say i buy weapons/armours from a crafter and sell it to hunters from a shop or on the street, am i a trader or a resseller?
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That would depend on whether you use an artifically inflated markup or whether you make a small commission of a PED or two.

I note that you're not answering the question. And I think that you know very well what I'm talking about, you're just avoiding the issue.
 
Oleg said:
That would depend on whether you use an artifically inflated markup or whether you make a small commission of a PED or two.

I note that you're not answering the question. And I think that you know very well what I'm talking about, you're just avoiding the issue.
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Im just trying to show that there is basically no difference between resseller and a trader, it all is in context.

They both provide their service.

A person who buys an item of the auction and reposts it again with higher markup first takes a risk. Second he does the seller a favour, the bo usually is the price the seller would accept for that item. Even though no crafter could want it at that time. So if you look from the sellers percpective he sold his item quickly and doesnt have to worry about anything else, he got his bo. The crafter could be the seller, the hunter could be the seller or the miner.

The buyer on the other hand, well he only buys if he is comfortable with the price. So the resseller will obviously be forced to lower the price to that so the buyer buys. Now why ressellers are hated is because they make profit here, but hey wait a second, they did the seller a favour, then they do the buyer a favour by always having the item up there. Time is money.

So if u have a clear definition of a resseller/trader or a concrete question on my activities inside trading, please ask? But in my bussiness i try to make everything precise, so i dont regret my answers.

Your question of make a ped or two still is to vague. If an item is worth 2ped, and i sell for 4ped, thats worse then if item is worth 20k ped and i sell for 30kped. I inflate it by a higher % markup on the first.
 
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What i can say concretely is the following statements:

No seller or buyer i ever traded with was left unhappy.
If there is more then one item in the auction group, and im selling mine, it wont be the most expensive(Even with me making profit).
I provide all support in limits i can to people who buy an item from me, and ask me for help.

But the biggest point is. I pay interest to investors, so if i do end up being of what u think a market manipulator, (lets say we defined it), i still put part of my profits back to the people of eu. Hence the profit i make, part of it goes back to the sellers, traders, i buy from. So in no way i can possibly be worse then any reseller trader out there, wouldnt u aggree?
 
Richard Devil said:
...BTW its been running for 3 months, one investor already cashed out, i can ask him to post here, he knew me for a while too, and is resepctable in the community.
...
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Yes, that's exactly how the Ponzi scheme works.
You don't have to remind us of it, we're already aware. :rolleyes:
 
Vedder said:
Yes, that's exactly how the Ponzi scheme works.
You don't have to remind us of it, we're already aware. :rolleyes:
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Yes true thats how ponzi scheme works...

I feel the only way to prove that its not is auctually start showing where and how much money i made, but the downside, is that i would be revealing something to others, and they will look for related opportunity. Which would basically be me digging my own grave in terms of profiting.

Ill be back in an hour or two to answer more questions if needed be.
 
Oleg said:
There is a big difference, as recently discussed in this thread:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83045

You still haven't answered my question, so I'll make it simple for you.

Do you buy mid- to high-end armours and weapons and relist them at a higher price? Yes, or no?
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Richard Devil said:
I could give u a full list of activities in which im involved as far as trading goes, however its a traders secret. I can explain to u how i make money, but then u can make the same money.
But the items i trade in, well it depends.
Click to expand...

hope this help :)

btw i m the one who cash out ;)
haven't receive my money yet
will post when i receive them :)
 
Oleg said:
There is a big difference, as recently discussed in this thread:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83045

You still haven't answered my question, so I'll make it simple for you.

Do you buy mid- to high-end armours and weapons and relist them at a higher price? Yes, or no?
Click to expand...

Your question is again vague. Relist them where? when? Mid could be considered ghost, could be nemi.

And to answer that question, or close to it. I saw a cheap deal here for ff8000 a while back, bought it. Ended up selling it for 25% higher 3 weeks later to a friend of mine who was looking for it.
 
leezhizheng said:
hope this help :)

btw i m the one who cash out ;)
haven't receive my money yet
will post when i receive them :)
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Thanks for the help :)
About your money, i just got home, ill get on pm u :) Didnt catch u on yesterday.
 
Stay away i say that rock solid advice.
 
Richard Devil said:
Your question is again vague. Relist them where? when? Mid could be considered ghost, could be nemi.

And to answer that question, or close to it. I saw a cheap deal here for ff8000 a while back, bought it. Ended up selling it for 25% higher 3 weeks later to a friend of mine who was looking for it.
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You must be the only one reading this thread who doesn't understand what I am asking. Or rather you claim not to, I don't for a moment believe you.

Your reluctance to answer a simple question betrays a remarkable lack of integrity.

The (perceived) market rate for that Fireforge has increased by around 800 PED over the last year due to market manipulation. Given what you have said, and refused to say, I can only assume that you are partly responsible for this.

Such activity is ruining this game for genuine players who are unable to improve their equipment without paying a massively over-inflated price, and anyone who invests in you will only be increasing the problem (and at great risk, given your evasiveness).
 
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Oleg said:
...
The (perceived) market rate for that Fireforge has increased by around 800 PED over the last year due to market manipulation.
...
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Ehm... You don't know that.
These old guns hardly drops anymore, and as EU grows so will the price, unless MA starts letting us loot them or similar or better guns.

Whether this explains all increase is hard to say, but personally I think 'market manipulation' usually only have a short time effect, and has a lot less effect on the general pricing that the reseller haters claim.
But again... it's really hard to tell for sure.

Oh btw... Before you get the wrong idea: Nope, I'm not a reseller/trade/market manipulator or whatever you just thought. :)
 
Vedder said:
Ehm... You don't know that.
These old guns hardly drops anymore, and as EU grows so will the price, unless MA starts letting us loot them or similar or better guns.

Whether this explains all increase is hard to say, but personally I think 'market manipulation' usually only have a short time effect, and has a lot less effect on the general pricing that the reseller haters claim.
But again... it's really hard to tell for sure.

Oh btw... Before you get the wrong idea: Nope, I'm not a reseller/trade/market manipulator or whatever you just thought. :)
Click to expand...

With those type of item the manipulation just pushes the price up and up. We're talking about a gun with 20something damage/sec and average eco at over 1000 PEDs. This very clearly does not reflect the true worth of the gun.
 
Oleg said:
You must be the only one reading this thread who doesn't understand what I am asking. Or rather you claim not to, I don't for a moment believe you.

Your reluctance to answer a simple question betrays a remarkable lack of integrity.

The (perceived) market rate for that Fireforge has increased by around 800 PED over the last year due to market manipulation. Given what you have said, and refused to say, I can only assume that you are partly responsible for this.

Such activity is ruining this game for genuine players who are unable to improve their equipment without paying a massively over-inflated price, and anyone who invests in you will only be increasing the problem (and at great risk, given your evasiveness).

Your greed is despicable, and pathetic.
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I evade your question because u got a point to prove, u want to label me as a market manipulator, even though its not true. With the ff8000 i sold it to a person in a trade, thus in no way affecting the markup on eu auction data. The price he gave me for it, was his decision. I can ask him once he comes online to confirm this.

My greed? Im here offering services which any other resseller would think is retarded. Im offering a chance for the community to take part of the profit of a resseller, and u calling me greedy?

I aggre my sale could have increased/decreased the price, but everyone does that every time they complete a trade.
 
Oleg said:
With those type of item the manipulation just pushes the price up and up. We're talking about a gun with 20something damage/sec and average eco at over 1000 PEDs. This very clearly does not reflect the true worth of the gun.
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how can i with one gun out what 1000 out there affect the price so much? that means that on average the gun rose 800ped in price, hence all the guns gained 800kped in value. So u saying that i with one sale have produced the incentive for other players to spend even at least 100kped more on these guns? Which is only 100 ped increase.

My point: I cant possibly with one gun affect the rise of value in over 10kped even, which is 10ped per gun.
To affect it 800k ped, u need at least 300guns.
 
Ok im gone for a bit, will be back in an hour and continue answering questions and such.
 
Richard Devil said:
how can i with one gun out what 1000 out there affect the price so much? that means that on average the gun rose 800ped in price, hence all the guns gained 800kped in value. So u saying that i with one sale have produced the incentive for other players to spend even at least 100kped more on these guns? Which is only 100 ped increase.

My point: I cant possibly with one gun affect the rise of value in over 10kped even, which is 10ped per gun.
To affect it 800k ped, u need at least 300guns.
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1. Price and value are not the same thing.

2. You appear to have fundamentally failed to grasp how the auction data works, which is something of a serious flaw for a trader. Or, more likely, you're just trying to deny involvement by spewing spurious and meaningless numbers.
 
Richard Devil said:
I evade your question because u got a point to prove, u want to label me as a market manipulator, even though its not true.
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I don't want to label you as anything, I'm just asking questions. Your answers, or lack of answers, suggest to me that you are not what I would call a legitimate trader.
 
Oleg one sale can not in any way make the price of the gun go up 1k peds. I do think 10 peds it could do maybe even 100 but not 1k.
 
Outman said:
Oleg one sale can not in any way make the price of the gun go up 1k peds. I do think 10 peds it could do maybe even 100 but not 1k.
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I am not suggesting that it could*, or has. These things are cumulative. If you look at the data you will see that the price has risen steadily with each sale, for the most part, which is the familiar pattern associated with price inflation of individual items in EU, whatever the cause.

http://www.peauction.com/itemlisting.php?id=616

I did not suggest that Richard's one sale even affected the stats one bit - he said that he sold to a friend, which I assume was a private sale and therefore not even reflected in either in-game or PEAuction figures. It is he, not I, that has come up with a bunch of spurious figures in order to defend himself against something that I have not accused him of.

You can draw your own conclusions from that.

I'm just asking questions about the nature of the investment and the integrity of the guy running it. Investing in anything without doing so would be foolish.

He has yet to give us a proper answer. Again, you can draw your own conclusions. If you want to invest in someone who refuses to give a straight answer to a straight question, be my guest.

(* though actually it could affect the in-game auction data in this way, on the weekly or monthly price)
 
Ok quickly. Let me just explain why i avoid the questions, and you claiming not trying to label me as a resseller.

The first question you ever posted in this thread:
How is continuous reselling and manipulation of the market good for the EU community?
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You must agree without doubt this labels me a resseller and market manipulator.

Second question:
How is artificially raising the market price of rare or semi-rare items good for the EU community?
Click to expand...
Similar to first.

Third Question:
This is what you're doing, right? If not, perhaps you could give us some examples of the trades you are making in order to increase the value of the portfolio. What items are you trading in?
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This starts as a biased question, because if "this is not what im doing" you force me to defend myself by providing information, other people could be interested in.

Fourth Question
So are you saying that you only trade in 'resources' rather than 'equipment'? i.e. Do you only trade in stackable-type items such as ores or tailoring materials, or do you also buy weapons and armour, for example?

If it's the former, you are a trader. If it's the latter, you are a re-seller. Which are you?
Click to expand...
After not accepting my answer u further make questions that really have no answer.
I can trade stackables and be more of a manipulator then i could trade in armours and such. What i trade in, in no way proves one side or the other. I try to explain that to you in the next post. You said i evade the question.

Fifth Question
Do you buy mid- to high-end armours and weapons and relist them at a higher price? Yes, or no?
Click to expand...
If i answered yes, i would get labeled as a market manipulator and bad version of the resseller right away. If i answered no i would be lieing. But that does not mean im a resseller or market manipulator who is just pushing for extreme profit because of rarity of mid-to high end equipment.
This question is again biased if i answer yes, because of the way u structured it.

Summary:
So tell me honestly, what are you trying to do with these questions?

You called me a resseller and manipulator, and if im not then i have to proove it right away by giving away what i trade in which has no relevance. Its the way you trade determines who you are.
You called me greedy.
You called me pathetic.

Pls do tell me how im greedy and pathetic.
 
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