50k+ Losses

timmmers said:

In the time I've been playing (less than a year) I've seen a lot of old timers quit and sell out, some of them selling skills that must have taken years to accumulate ...it takes a lot to make someone do that I think. Always sad to see. It will take new guys much less thought to quit if they find themselves unable to get anywhere without huge cost.
Game over if that continues long term. For everyone.

t

Click to expand...

Indeed, it took me more than a couple of month and 5 nerfs to lose any tolerance to ma's actions and the hunting returns.
I think, that the turning point was last august when me and many other people got their hands on the cash cards and started withdrawing. Fast.
Since then, my reaction progressed from "WOWZA!! i finished this month with 15K losses, not likely that i started doing something wrong after two years of steady profits?!" to "bah, EU is way less fun than playing some 1993s Master of Orion , i have no time for it anymore".

Also, i dont really understand people who include markup on items and increase of skills in the balance sheet. Does MA sell you ammo or repairs with markup ?! Just dont tell me "but you looted xyz of abc and gained some skills". The money bought the ammo and my time bought any market value on the stuff i've looted. The fact that i can sell something above its tt price does not convince me that i have to get 50% tt returns. It only means to me that someone takes too high rakes. I can tell that, since back 3 1/2 years ago, i had 85% returns (well, of the same tt food) and you could not sell any skills. And i barely had any. So it was possible for MA to maintain such returns and still have money for running the game. And now suddenly its not enough.
Haha. BS.

If all things were sold with TT,we wouldn't lose too much money.
Therefore,MA don't get too much money from u,another players take your money.

MA just take money to maintain their service,all of us play and steal our money each others

Some things which came to my mind reading the thread

1. The new game engine will have cost a lot. since MA will not have made a deal where CryTek get money per sold game, MA will just have bought it. That will have cost MA around 400k-800k$.
2. Even if you can play "smart" or waste ped like no tomorrow, there should be a "stop" where you don´t pay more than 1$/h to MA with decay. You pay more than that? It goes to your personal!! loot. Btw, 1$/h is a LOT!!
3. What does MA mean with 1$/h? If you chat 4 hours and go to a hunt, do you pay for your chatting time now?
4. EU lacks of "players". Many quit when they see that there is no future. How on earth should you upgrade of even catch an "ueber"? There is NO way unless you deposit around 50k-100k$. When i was noob and someone told me that Supreamacy Helmets are droped by longus, i hunted them 2 weeks non-stop. I really thought it must be possible to loot it. But its just as possible as to win in the lottery. And that is less "work"... (and even cheaper to play .)
5. EU needs way more money by adverts! Its sad, but i would have no problem getting paid!! to see some more adverts which pay the loot. Why don´t we have BP for Adidas Shoes, Colts or Heckler&Koch weapons (Merkel&Loch... lmao). It does not have to be such stupied adverts like those on the screens. More subtile so its not anoying.

Bear said:

Some things which came to my mind reading the thread

5. EU needs way more money by adverts! Its sad, but i would have no problem getting paid!! to see some more adverts which pay the loot. Why don´t we have BP for Adidas Shoes, Colts or Heckler&Koch weapons (Merkel&Loch... lmao). It does not have to be such stupied adverts like those on the screens. More subtile so its not anoying.

Click to expand...

here is the pol i started in February - we could be "rolling in dough"

http://entropiaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54816

Jepp, hunting is a expensive joy now. I log in and heal sweaters for an hour or two. Its no return at all exept for skills, but much much cheaper

I do feel sorry for you guys that can't control your deposits

Vedder said:

Many people say that the game is constantly getting more expensive...
But is it?... Are you sure it's not because you're upgrading your gear?

It's so easy and natural to 'evolve' or improve your avatar, but you should be aware that every time you buy an armor piece with slightly more protection, a better plate, buy a bigger amp, or a slightly more powerful gun then YOU are choosing to spend more money, not only for the purchase itself but for the general cost to play.

I think that accounts for at least 90% or the increased costs to play EU, that so many is talking about... If not all of it.


If it's too expensive for you, just sell you gear and buy some less powerfull stuff.
If Opalo hunts are too expensive for you too... Go back to sweating, or just find yourself another hobby.

Click to expand...

That's weird, i use the same gear for 2 years now and loots are getting worse... While my skills get better. Try to explain that.

Evn when i go powerfisting with TT gloves i lose peds. You can tell me a lot of BS but it's a fact. They're busting our balls.

(I say, BACK TO THE PILE)

I dont really understand how anyone can loose 10k+ in a month except if you try something very risky (like crafting OA-106 on full condition w/o any skills) for an entire month but got the peds to play at that risk. But I guess it has to do with gambling addiction, the more you loose the higher the next bet to make up for looses.

The main problem is that people want to progress quickly. Everyone want to wear supreamcy and tank Aurlis in dome4 day after day because its "uber". I seldom make profit at the end of the month but thats beacuse I choose to hunt what I think is fun and with the gear I like. I dont want to hunt snables with opalo and I dont want to sweat so I choose to risk my pedsevery hunt.

The main problem I see now is the lack of motivation in loots. When I started EU I dreamed of looting an imp fap or an imkII, now I know its not possible. At the best I can loot some high tt (L) crap gun or 10k of residue, thats not fun IMO. I dont play to make profit, I play to progress and atm that aint possible. Well, its possible to loot stuff I dont want and sell and buy what I want but ffs MA...give us some inspiration

Mice said:

I dont really understand how anyone can loose 10k+ in a month except if you try something very risky (like crafting OA-106 on full condition w/o any skills) for an entire month but got the peds to play at that risk. But I guess it has to do with gambling addiction, the more you loose the higher the next bet to make up for looses.

Click to expand...

well, It as a "rule" for the last 2-3month that 500peds last exactly 8-10 hours hunting (i mean - full repair + ammo, then recycle the loot, and repeat untill down to 10peds or something) that includes all the globals and I get about 5-6 during that time.

so go through 10k would take me about 2-4month. which perhaps happen since may - i am not counting my accumulated losses for the sake of my mental health.

I hoffed 450peds on trox dom and got 100peds global from necony, next day I had zoro peds, and that includes initial 500peds

Ast said:

Vedder said:

Many people say that the game is constantly getting more expensive...
But is it?... Are you sure it's not because you're upgrading your gear?

It's so easy and natural to 'evolve' or improve your avatar, but you should be aware that every time you buy an armor piece with slightly more protection, a better plate, buy a bigger amp, or a slightly more powerful gun then YOU are choosing to spend more money, not only for the purchase itself but for the general cost to play.

I think that accounts for at least 90% or the increased costs to play EU, that so many is talking about... If not all of it.


If it's too expensive for you, just sell you gear and buy some less powerfull stuff.
If Opalo hunts are too expensive for you too... Go back to sweating, or just find yourself another hobby.

Click to expand...

That's weird, i use the same gear for 2 years now and loots are getting worse... While my skills get better. Try to explain that.
...

Click to expand...

Read again. I said, gear upgrade probably explains 90% or more of increasing expenses, not necessarily all of it.

Ast said:

...Try to explain that.
...

Click to expand...

Ok, I will. 4 possible explanations:

#1: Same gear for 2 years, eh? Then you don't use some of the new gear which probably has much better eco, unless you have very uberish skills.
Status quo is not enough when the world improves around you.
Your gear is simply not as efficient as it used to be, compared to the average gear efficiency.
#2: Loot distribution has changed to bigger % in big hofs... EU is getting more random, and luck plays a bigger factor now than before.
If you don't get lucky and get the big ones, your cost will increase, even though the average loot for all players might have stayed the same.
#3: Loot has become worse, and cost to play has increased.
#4: Though your skills has increased, so has everybody else.. And the average skill level has increased faster than yours, so you're just not as efficient as you used to be, compared to the average efficiency.

The truth is probably in some combination of the explanations, even though you and many other assume it's all about #3.

Vedder said:

Read again. I said, gear upgrade probably explains 90% or more of increasing expenses, not necessarily all of it.



Ok, I will. 4 possible explanations:

#1: Same gear for 2 years, eh? Then you don't use some of the new gear which probably has much better eco, unless you have very uberish skills.
Status quo is not enough when the world changes around you.
Your gear is simply not as efficient as it used to be, compared to the average gear efficiency.
#2: Loot distribution has changed to bigger % in big hofs... EU is getting more random, and luck plays a bigger factor now than before.
If you don't get lucky and get the big ones, your cost will increase, even though the average loot for all players might have stayed the same.
#3: Loot has become worse, and cost to play has increased.
#4: Though your skills has increased, so has everybody else.. And the average skill level has increased faster than yours, so you're just not as efficient as you used to be, compared to the average efficiency.

The truth is probably in some combination of the explanations, even though you and many other assume it's all about #3.

Click to expand...

I don't think it's all about 3. I do notice however that it doesn't matter for me if i use TT gloves with sib, opalo with sib or my MKIII. Even my Axe 2.0 doesn't do the trick anymore. I didn't say i didn't try other stuff.

Luckily i'm not the only one. If some1 like Pham notice that the returns are getting worse? He had uberish skills and nice gear. So i do tend to think it's not my skills or my gear but rather the fast changing world around me.... I will try to adapt. (but i refuse to resell)

Ast said:

I don't think it's all about 3. I do notice however that it doesn't matter for me if i use TT gloves with sib, opalo with sib or my MKIII. Even my Axe 2.0 doesn't do the trick anymore. I didn't say i didn't try other stuff.

Luckily i'm not the only one. If some1 like Pham notice that the returns are getting worse? He had uberish skills and nice gear. So i do tend to think it's not my skills or my gear but rather the fast changing world around me.... I will try to adapt. (but i refuse to resell)

Click to expand...

he is not the only "uber" i have heard complaining about returns lately btw ...

I am sure you can lose 50k peds in 7 months on hunting, the question is why you do it. The first 10k peds of losses should have given you a hint on that something was wrong ("I now need an ath to break even, maybe I need to think through what I'm doing?")

The game gives you hints all the time that something is wrong, that you should change weapon/mob/whatever and still you keep going. And then you blame MA...

Sad to hear Scudd… but im not surprised…
I can see drastic changes in activity on my friendslist and my own activity is cut down to 1/3 or more.

MA is facing some serious problems and of course all investors in EU…
A descent return from the 3 head “professions”, hunting, mining and crafting IS THE MOST IMPORTANT IN WHOLE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE or this “game” is… dead…

You must realize that “other” things to do in EU (reselling, piloting, sweating, owning LA… etc) is only side effect on those head professions. And without most of us out hunting and mining or crafting there will be very little room for “side effect professions”.

I think MA having serious problem combining the “casino” part and the "no limit universe" part if you know what I mean.

What I now hope for is that a majority of the people in EU cuts down on activity and deposits so MA is forced to do a change… Who knows… that might be the biggest issue at MAs headquarter right as we speak… hope so…

As you said, number 4 in champions league is something... To be there you have to compete with maxed uber weppons and great skills. They can kill more than most players AND eficient. To do that, you had to kill more than most players and ofcourse, ineficient. I can't blame MA for any one loses. I am sure that if you change your aproach, you can break eaven/profit at any skill level.
But your purpose was to build a name in EU. And that dose not come cheap. Considering the price of items in EU, 50k is not realy such a big amount to win or to lose. But if you go in having the oportunity to lose so much money, you better be sure you can aford it.
Skills are VERRY important. Not having them and using wrong weppons/tools/armors cand and WILL cost alot of money. It is expected for any one of us. And if you think you can profit... Never expect a huge profit but a % of what you spend. If you are verry eficient and manage to spend 500k ped/month in whatever you do, you can expect a 5-10% win/loss ONLY if you do the right thing for your level.
At low level is simply imposible to profit to much because is imposible to spend to much. That is why most people are tempted to use big guns. Those alow you to spend more and have the chance to gain more. But if you don't have the skills to use them AND the big guns are not EFICIENT and GOOD in the same time (and those are minimum 100k ped/item, except maybe IM2870) you will just pay for those with skill and gear. The only smart thing you can do in EU to have a good chance for succes is to be fair with your self and know your limits. When you push them, you always pay for that. And if you try a combo and you loose money for 1 month with it STOP. Do something else. But try to understand dwhy you lose so much.

Back when I was a total newbie, feeling tough in my Goblin and toting my Opalo with an A103 stuck on it, going for great adventurous 20PED ammo trips against those insanely powerful argonauts north of Twin Peaks, I usually returned with enough loot (namely iron) to slowly repair my amp to full condition, and make a tad of profit to have some fun crafting filters every now and then. The fairly regular A103 drops (although almost TT food at that time) along with the FreanD Alphas, Paladin Masks, weeny FAPs and Knight Thighs surely would brighten up your mood every now and then - Woo, an ITEM! You'd get one or two of those almost every 20 PED of ammo. Oh, and the good old 1PED ESI's! I looted two of those back then, and felt like Christmas both the times!

In the last week, I felt nostalgic and went up for those critters again. I had two loots at 20 PED (165 and 150 iron ore, almost full). In 100 PED ammo. And that was everything worth mentioning. Not a single FAP5, not even a broken argonaut skull. I still lost about 50 PED of TT value in one hour. The adventure factor wasn't really there anymore - At one point I got several argos choking on my Shogun, but a few Korss blasts explained to them our comparative positions on the predator ladder.

I think those 50 PE would be better used during a week and a half of subscription to some other game, but I'm too lazy to go through the credit card registration and up to three months of waiting just to get my 150 USD that my stuff is TT-worth, and even lazier to try and find buyers for the stuff and skills, so I'll probably eventually use it up during my now rarer and rarer visits to Calypso, or just pick up trading instead of hunting (after all, my last 'goal' of unlocking RDA has come to a success) and I'll try to make enough PED to make the aforementioned efforts worth it.

As to MA... Well. With the great bank sale almost a quarter of a year behind us (or is it longer already?) I would expect the banks to actually BE in the game. We do not really need fancy big buildings with ... what, one NPC inside? This one NPC that I expect will provide all the interaction with the payers (not a misspelling) and some official bank avatars could have been ingame for months now. In Hadesheim. In Jason. In Sakura and at the TI city.
As for the money from the bank sale, I suppose many people expected this to contribute to their loot pool. Woo, 10M PED for us to tap in! Wrong, first 5M PED are tied to some avatars' PED cards. But that's still 5M that could be paid out you say? Well - I can't really say I see a lot of posts on the EF saying "Hey great, my average return has increased to 90%, that's great! I break even and even make some profit often now!" I don't believe the ubers that take out loads of cash have burnt through 500k USD yet. Then again, I might be wrong.
With that and all the annoying advertisements, one really begins to wonder "where the heck does all the money end?" C'mon MA, I don't want photo-realistic graphics and such crap for the price of 100 USD per hour! Not that my comp hasn't enough problems with the current state of your universe as it is.

I'm a gamer, not a gambler, and, in MA terms my interest in PE has a high decay rate. Sorry, this rant has ran a bit out of control, but I shall post it anyway.

Neo said:

Sad to hear Scudd… but im not surprised…
I can see drastic changes in activity on my friendslist and my own activity is cut down to 1/3 or more.

MA is facing some serious problems and of course all investors in EU…
A descent return from the 3 head “professions”, hunting, mining and crafting IS THE MOST IMPORTANT IN WHOLE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE or this “game” is… dead…

You must realize that “other” things to do in EU (reselling, piloting, sweating, owning LA… etc) is only side effect on those head professions. And without most of us out hunting and mining or crafting there will be very little room for “side effect professions”.

I think MA having serious problem combining the “casino” part and the "no limit universe" part if you know what I mean.

What I now hope for is that a majority of the people in EU cuts down on activity and deposits so MA is forced to do a change… Who knows… that might be the biggest issue at MAs headquarter right as we speak… hope so…

Click to expand...

I see exactly this kind of post for as long as I play EU.

-off topic-

I think you got mentored terrebly wrong.

Whiners thread

Stop whining!
I used to sound like you, and still do. EU is expensive, EU is a load of crap code, MA is greedy, 1$/hour-my-ass, why are good items so rare, how can so-and-so global/hof all the time, when do I get a break?!

Use low/mid gear, use only maxed gear, play for fun-not profit, don't deposit more than say 20/50USD a month, if loots are bad, change location, if they are bad there, change location, if they are still bad, take a break, do something else, browse the auctions, maybe another profession (risky), resell a bit or come here and complain about uber items with insane markup or complain how whiners come here to complain.

Don't blame anyone else but yourself for lack of self control. You got off quite easy, and now you are ready to catch a scam IRL, where it could have cost your life worse.


Tie - looting your losses and loosing to your loot.

Neo said:

....

MA is facing some serious problems and of course all investors in EU…
A descent return from the 3 head “professions”, hunting, mining and crafting IS THE MOST IMPORTANT IN WHOLE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE or this “game” is… dead…

You must realize that “other” things to do in EU (reselling, piloting, sweating, owning LA… etc) is only side effect on those head professions. And without most of us out hunting and mining or crafting there will be very little room for “side effect professions”.

…

Click to expand...

Yes I agree totally. As long as the “side effect professions” takes out so much peds from EU the main professions return will be suffering, especially if they constantly withdraw money from EU it will be missed in loot and as MA will take out what they need to sustain their business it is nothing but a fact that loot return will be lower than without “side effect professions” taking out peds.

There is no magical doubling of peds in game so the more peds are withdrawn by “side effect professions” (investors) the lesser peds are in loot.


PS:

I do not have exact figures except the things owners of LA's etc. wrote here and they look as if at least several 10K US$ are earned by the owner of such tax generating areas each month. Sure they need to spend fertilizer and make events or adds but the cost of that is small compared to the return and the cost for special DNA is a one time investment witch could also be recovered when selling the item.

Soooo YOUR the one funnding all those HOFs!

True, LA owners and such can make allot of money and will be able to make a genuine living out of it.

You will not get that as loot, but if you look a little further a game were people have 'real' jobs 'can live from the game' advertising will atract more players and thus more loot ^^

tiebender said:

Stop whining!
I used to sound like you, and still do. EU is expensive, EU is a load of crap code, MA is greedy, 1$/hour-my-ass, why are good items so rare, how can so-and-so global/hof all the time, when do I get a break?!

Use low/mid gear, use only maxed gear, play for fun-not profit, don't deposit more than say 20/50USD a month, if loots are bad, change location, if they are bad there, change location, if they are still bad, take a break, do something else, browse the auctions, maybe another profession (risky), resell a bit or come here and complain about uber items with insane markup or complain how whiners come here to complain.
Don't blame anyone else but yourself for lack of self control. You got off quite easy, and now you are ready to catch a scam IRL, where it could have cost your life worse.


Tie - looting your losses and loosing to your loot.

Click to expand...

Where is the fun aspect in all this?
As it has been said tons of times already, MA could not choose a more appropriate definition, that THIS IS NOT A GAME!

I am afraid there is no solution, other than switching to a GAME, if what people are looking for is FUN for the price they pay. If people like risk and gambling, then it's another story....

I just believe that everything has a limit and things here have gone far beyond.....

Just my

If you buy a racing car and start racing and keep loosing and eventually have to sell the car will you then blame the carseller or yourself ?

adapt and evolve

Hally said:

If you buy a racing car and start racing and keep loosing and eventually have to sell the car will you then blame the carseller or yourself ?

adapt and evolve

Click to expand...

how does that even relate to EU?

In EU all you have control over is how you spend your peds. The rest is in the hands of god - MA.

Your skill is irrelevant really all it means is you are able to hunt/mine/craft harder things. Sure you can use equipment more efficiently but it doesnt gaurantee you will get good returns.

Hi all

Terra said:

hi guys,

But most of all: the extremely crappy coding
i have a brand new top-of-the-line pc now, and EU still lags like a motherf$%^&@ seems to me something is terribly wrong with the code.



Well i really agree about the crappy coding, made a few support cases myself on that and ofcourse got a standard answer back from MA.
I guess they use templates for that !
Woyuld be nice if we got some peds for every disconnection and other performance problems !
So also here i really have the feeling the dont give ... about there customers who pay there sallaries !

And about all who lost Peds Big Time certainly if u keep losing mont after month then there really must be something wrong in here, thats not a question of luck, skills or equipment anymore i think.

But when i Hunt and loot keeps on sucking i just stop and try another time, it sofar works for me.
Did not lose much on hunting overall, and i do some investments and they seem to work out fine so that keep my little hunting loses a bit in balance.

I also not gonna chip out to make up loses read to many articles about that and they all regret that they chipped out.

Fot all who losts mucho peds on hunting i really hope that the tide will turn for u.

Gl all.

Regards,

Droops

Click to expand...

jonboy said:

Hally said:

If you buy a racing car and start racing and keep loosing and eventually have to sell the car will you then blame the carseller or yourself ?

adapt and evolve

Click to expand...

how does that even relate to EU?

In EU all you have control over is how you spend your peds. The rest is in the hands of god - MA.
...

Click to expand...

Oh so MA sits down every week and decided who should profit, who should lose big and who should break even?
...Or is it pure luck, that some people keep profitting?

Enlighten us, please

Hally said:

If you buy a racing car and start racing and keep loosing and eventually have to sell the car will you then blame the carseller or yourself ?

adapt and evolve

Click to expand...

No… it’s more like buying a racecar and participates in race competitions to always get disqualified before race is finish. And when you try to sort it out with the race management why you always gets black flag… the answer is… this race is dynamic…

Vedder said:

Oh so MA sits down every week and decided who should profit, who should lose big and who should break even?
...Or is it pure luck, that some people keep profitting?

Enlighten us, please

Click to expand...

uh where did i imply they did that? fool

MA must sit down and decide what mobs will pay out x amount and at what rate they drop loot.

Who are these people that keep profiting? All the ones i have heard or know about profit from the hyper inflation of items the had.

good thread!


the more posts alike the clearer the message to MA =)

now, where to start... ah, Vedder. if I look on all the players around and compare those who use maxed sib + cheapest armor combination possible + suitable mobs not to heal up and get decay in minimum and those who use mid (or better) non-sib weapons + good armor + tough enough mobs getting more decay on armor and fap, there is no difference. the average return is still the same -50..70% constantly for the most of players. using maxed sib and eco gear on eco mobs does not do anything better. at least, that's what I've noticed but I might be wrong as usually.

Mice did put it very right - players need fun. and that can not come from constant big minuses and no items in loot (I do not define any oil or L stuff as items here). why should a newcomer continue playing if the returns are rather pathetic? why should a mid level player continue if the last 2-3 years have made him 50k ped minuses and he has made no improvement in gear? ahh, the ubers are still doing ok? well, that's good at least =) I'm really happy to see 1% of the top skilled ones to profit LOADS. I guess half of the rest 99% getting horrible minuses last year or so does not leave much room for their shiny future in long (maybe not so long) turn. as Mice said, we do not want to profit constantly. and we understand that it's kind of impossible. but rising average return and returning some items in loot would make it much more shiny for majority, can't deny that.

I don't quite understand if I'm just silly blue-eyes or something but I really do not see much players continuing after first half a year, a year lately. ok, it's nice to see that one of my students (hi Rick!) is doing well, but 90% of them are gone, not active or quit. all I see is a handful of 3+ year old ones and two handfuls of the lucky guys who hit something big. I must be stupid but my common sense also says that it's more beneficial to keep the 1000 low depositors close for as long as possible than... wait, there's something wrong in the logic. MA has constant expenses, all cool with that, top players need to be kept in mind, no objections. now, where to goes the rest of it? I mean, ubers had their profit 2 years ago aswell, MA had their expenses 2 years ago the same way. how come suddenly it's not enough and most of the players make constant minuses (maxed or not)? is it really those rare high loots on young argos and troxes which drain the lootpool? or is it just that a significant part of players are holding themselves back from depositing and filling the pool because there is no excitement and nop progress to motivate them? that seems logical, at least a little. we have quite a lot of mid level players who would rather continue, but they got kicked in certain regions of lower body by last nerfs plus nice items disappeared from loot - why should they continue doing as they did? so there's bunch of newcomers who deposit 10-20$ a month to cover most of the expenses and a couple of the top that withdraw 10-50k$ every month and that's it? excusez-moi but this schema will not last long. and no, the millions of chinese will not cover everything. again, I might be wrong in the last one.

nope, not fun. I think we should still continue keeping low profile and not support this like we used to! =P


J.