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The efficiency of scopes/lasers - Statistics/Discussion

Because the parser crashed, it hadn't given a summary at the end of the first file. I initially just counted lines, not realizing that mob hits were in there, so i had an overestimate of my hits.

I updated the previous post. I'm not pleased at all with all the *%@# gratuitous misses.
 
Native HA: 5.35
Modification: 31%
Modified HA: 7.01

mob: scipular provider-stalker (team)
hits: 3370
shots: 4090
hit rate: 82.40%
Expected native hit rate: 86.69%
Expected modified hit rate: 88.76%
(80% base HR, 1.25%/HA)

Other info:
50 of 3370 hits were criticals (1.48%)
Total recorded number of taken hits: 418 of which 6 were critical (again): 3 armor pen., 3 increased damage

The parser crashed again, this time after recording 3070 lines. So again, that may have underreported hits.
 
It seems indeed not all hits are recorded, else the results are realy bad :eek:. I dont realy know what causes the crash, I didnt have one yet. Do you have any info on the error message? Maybe its an idea to download the most recent one? Only thing I can think of is armor penetration. Its rare, and the last thing I updated.
 
Witte said:
It seems indeed not all hits are recorded, else the results are realy bad :eek:. I dont realy know what causes the crash, I didnt have one yet. Do you have any info on the error message? Maybe its an idea to download the most recent one? Only thing I can think of is armor penetration. Its rare, and the last thing I updated.
Click to expand...

Looked through the code and this
Code: 
bmp.Save(mstream, System.Drawing.Imaging.ImageFormat.Bmp);
seems like you're storing the grabbed image to display it inside your app.
Maybe this messes up memory (fragmentation) over time (mstream.Close() missing?)...

Tussi
 
Witte said:
It seems indeed not all hits are recorded, else the results are realy bad :eek:. I dont realy know what causes the crash, I didnt have one yet. Do you have any info on the error message? Maybe its an idea to download the most recent one? Only thing I can think of is armor penetration. Its rare, and the last thing I updated.
Click to expand...

I have been noticing a strange lag type behavior when shooting that often causes a miss. It started to happen around the time of the PhysX implimentation, i think. Anyway, it often seems like i'm missing due to extraneous reasons, so i wouldn't be surprised if those results are accurate.

I had a few armor penetration crits either run that were successfully recorded. The third run i tried to record crashed even earlier, and i didn't notice until later, so i won't even report it. I think there's a memory leak or something, perhaps what Tussi is talking about. It's late so i don't know for sure. The error message just says that the program will have to be closed, and do i want to send a report to MS. I will check next time to see if i can see more information, but it seems repeatable on my system: just leave it scanning for long enough.
 
Tussi said:
Looked through the code and this
Code: 
bmp.Save(mstream, System.Drawing.Imaging.ImageFormat.Bmp);
seems like you're storing the grabbed image to display it inside your app.
Maybe this messes up memory (fragmentation) over time (mstream.Close() missing?)...

Tussi
Click to expand...

You might have a point there, I am not realy sure if it automatically destructs. I added the close call and uploaded the new build.
 
Witte said:
You might have a point there, I am not realy sure if it automatically destructs. I added the close call and uploaded the new build.
Click to expand...

check ur darn pm ;D */end spam*
 
Looking at Doers most recent hitability VS Ambulimax/Scipulor - it would seem to me that it get harder to hit a mob the higher level it is, similar to how it's harder to evade a mob the higher level it is. :confused:
 
Did another run vs argos This time 723 hits in 842 shots giving a hitrate of 85.9%. Avarage damage(without CH): 46.3

Overall hitrate: 86.03%
Overall avarage damage: 46.1
In case of 80+12.5*ha/100 my hitrate would be 85.975. It seems to be awfully close to that figure. But I will yet do some more runs to be more sure.

I also did a run with 35% skillmod:

Shots: 659
Hits: 566
Hitrate: 85.89%
Avarage damage (w/o CH): 47.1

Hitrate seems exactly as without attachments, but the damage has a pretty large deviation.

I made some histograms of all damage I done till now:

p5: 1424 datapoints

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
M2910: 1143 datapoints

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

M2910 + 35% skillmod: 561 datapoints

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Not realy sure what this tell us, but I think it should be more flat with a uniform distribution? Maybe someone who has more experience with histograms can say something about it?
 
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Konve said:
Looking at Doers most recent hitability VS Ambulimax/Scipulor - it would seem to me that it get harder to hit a mob the higher level it is, similar to how it's harder to evade a mob the higher level it is. :confused:
Click to expand...

I wouldn't read to0 much into those runs. Not only did the parser crash at some undetermined point, but they were normal hunting rounds, not careful walk-on-ice tests. In addition, i have had that weird lag-miss thing happening a lot lately. All it means is that i'm probably getting a lower hit rate than i should be, not that it's part of the system.

Witte said:
Not realy sure what this tell us, but I think it should be more flat with a uniform distribution? Maybe someone who has more experience with histograms can say something about it?
Click to expand...

Well, the last is a relatively small sample, but what deviation there is looks a bit like what there was in my test months ago:

200605statsplot1.png
 
Not realy sure what this tell us, but I think it should be more flat with a uniform distribution? Maybe someone who has more experience with histograms can say something about it?
Click to expand...

I would say: try a bigger (factor >=3) sample please.

Tussi
 
I looked at the damage distribution from the first part of the hunt (before changing amps). The average fraction of max damage done was 0.696. 0.692 is what is predicted by taking the mean of min and max.

20080203-EU-Damagedistribution.gif


Still looks like a uniform distribution to me.
 
Native HA: 5.38
Modification: 31%
Modified HA: 7.05

mob: scipular young-dominant
hits: 3452
shots: 4052
hit rate: 85.2%
Expected native hit rate: 86.73%
Expected modified hit rate: 88.83%
(80% base HR, 1.25%/HA)

Still getting ripped off... :mad:

Not as bad as before. The parser didn't crash this time. :yay:

Other info:
56 of 3452 hits were criticals (1.62%)
Total recorded number of taken hits: 1219 of which 13 were critical (1.07%)
 
With each test the evidence that skillmod doesnt do a thing increases. I accidently TTed my attachments (at least I think, they are gone), so I am kinda disencouraged to buy new ones and do more tests.
 
Witte said:
With each test the evidence that skillmod doesnt do a thing increases. I accidently TTed my attachments (at least I think, they are gone), so I am kinda disencouraged to buy new ones and do more tests.
Click to expand...

My socmate was missing a beast amp last night, too. You should ask support what happened to them.

The previous tests we did supported the hit ability modification theory pretty well. Until the bugs are fixed such that i start getting consistent hit rates at least somewhere near the expected value if attachments do nothing, i'm not prepared to make a conclusion one way or another.

So far, it looks like normal attack speed mobs do about 1% crits.
 
Native HA: 5.38
Modification: 31%
Modified HA: 7.05

mob: scipular young-dominant
hits: 9843
shots: 11212
hit rate: 87.79%
Expected native hit rate: 86.73%
Expected modified hit rate: 88.83%
(80% base HR, 1.25%/HA)

The first decent hit rate. I think the post-VU lag is fading a bit. This is also the first test i've done recently that has supported attachments having an effect on HA. Good news...

This is a composite of 3 hunts. The parser crashed only the first hunt, and long after i stopped shooting.

Other info:
134 of 9843 hits were criticals (1.36%)
Total recorded number of taken hits: 3393 of which 40 were critical (1.18%)
 
This one seems too sad to even post, and there may be errors because the logger continues to crash at irregular intervals. I'll put it here for CH statistics and completeness.

Native HA: 5.39
Modification: 31%
Modified HA: 7.06

mob: longus, warriors and feffs (and drones, etc.)
hits: 2627
shots: 3228
hit rate: 81.38%
Expected native hit rate: 86.74%
Expected modified hit rate: 88.83%
(80% base HR, 1.25%/HA)

:(

I seem to have trouble hitting longus when they are up close and personal.

Other info:
39 of 2627 hits were criticals (1.48%)
Total recorded number of taken hits: 257 of which 1 was critical (0.39%) (no armor worn, so i would expect 50% less criticals; this is a small statistic, but so far it seems that scips do more crits)
 
With a crashing program, the results are kinda useless imo, unless you stop right when it crashes. I didnt get any crashes myself, so I dont know how to fix it. I made a small update on something that might have caused it, so it may be a good idea to download latest file. I will run it for several hours to see if something goes wrong.
 
Witte said:
With a crashing program, the results are kinda useless imo, unless you stop right when it crashes. I didnt get any crashes myself, so I dont know how to fix it. I made a small update on something that might have caused it, so it may be a good idea to download latest file. I will run it for several hours to see if something goes wrong.
Click to expand...

This is a change since the one Tussi suggested?

I always stop when the program crash is announced. What i'm not sure is if the program stops writing values before that happens.
 
Doer said:
This is a change since the one Tussi suggested?

I always stop when the program crash is announced. What i'm not sure is if the program stops writing values before that happens.
Click to expand...

Yeh I made that change just a couple hours ago. I am running the program for several hours now without any crashes. Although im not in EU, so there arent any values being read or written. PS, you should be able to check the "last modified" info to see if the latest data is written away.
 
Native HA: 5.43
Modification: 31%
Modified HA: 7.11

mob: longus, medium
hits: 8024
shots: 9524
hit rate: 84.34%
Expected native hit rate: 86.79%
Expected modified hit rate: 88.89%
(80% base HR, 1.25%/HA)

I was careful to restart the parser frequently so there was no crashing and should be no "instrument" error. The longu hitbox is buggy and there were the usual shot-lag misses i mention in another thread. Pretty unacceptable hit rate.

Other info:
128 of 8024 hits were criticals (1.6%)
Total recorded number of taken hits: 779 of which 5 was critical (0.64%) (no armor worn, so i would expect 50% less criticals; this is a small statistic, but it still seems that scips do more crits than ambus and longus)[/QUOTE]

Sidenote: I had a new personal ATL today by a pretty good margin and will probably chip and sell out if i have another day like this. Someone bumped up Spike's thread and it reminded me (as if i needed it) that my own personal ATH is a lot less than i lost just today. I can't wait to log in tomorrow and see who looted my peds.
 
I've been reading most of this thread to find out if scopes and lasers are worth the ped.....:scratch2:


Are they? or do i have to test it myself.....:confused:

+ rep to Witte and Doer for putting a lot of work into this

- rep to all the pukkers who use 30 mins to tell everyone how they THINK the shit works...when it would take like 5 mins to do a test on it.....
 
Skelethor said:
I've been reading most of this thread to find out if scopes and lasers are worth the ped.....:scratch2:


Are they? or do i have to test it myself.....:confused:

+ rep to Witte and Doer for putting a lot of work into this

- rep to all the pukkers who use 30 mins to tell everyone how they THINK the shit works...when it would take like 5 mins to do a test on it.....
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair, 5 minutes doesn't come near to answering this particular question. To answer yours, the best answer we have at this point is if you are going to be using a weapon without SIB or that's not maxed out yet on (Hit), it seems most likely that you'll get better economy with scope and sights. If you're using a maxed out weapon, it's most likely just extra decay.

I should clarify that lower damage weapons get less benefit because the decay from the attachments is a larger percentage of total cost each shot, so the above isn't always the case, but for most mid-level or higher weapons, it should be.
 
Great work guys :yay:

My subjective impression so far is that on nonL guns they really help but it depends a lot on the gun you use (+ the obvious as lvl,...)
I will do some tests the next days with different guns to check that out ... and to add some more data points ;)
 
I believe there's no question about the scope and sights not contributing to the DMG profession right?

If they do anything, they only improve your HIT profession by the skill modifier percentage. I believe the currently collected stats do show the HA being affected, but the inflicted damage is not mentioned.

Since Witte's tool does record this I was wondering whether research has been done regarding my first statement (dmg profession).
 
Thx, Doer :yay:

I'm now selling a ton of scopes and lasers i've been useing on my maxed out (L) weapons, and will buy the best scopes and lasers i can for my marber!

I will also try NOT to think of how much ped i lost on useing those pukkers...:mad:

If i find the time and feel like it....i will buy a tt pistol and 2k ammo and go hunt an ambu young :laugh:

1k ammo with scopes and laser, 1k ammo without.....that should be an easy and fast test if scopes and laser affect HA... since neither 1 of us can kill the other :ahh:

But since I'm so lazy.....can't someone else do it? hahahaha
 
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Recoda said:
Or, does this mean that, even at 10.0/10.0 in Hit Ability, you won't be as successful to kill one creature, as the other?
Click to expand...

Well let me speak for myself - quoting an paragraph in an oooold post in this thread..

I have full 100% hit ability on mobs that are "way n00b" for me, that being molisk young, bery young, (name em in that rank).

Now if I then move up to molisk leader, bery stalker, agronaut leader, hogglo young... Then I have somewhat 95% hit ability with my SiB HL6 10/10 in both.
 
Actually, id like to claim that the "depends on what you shoot at" thing you get while hoovering the HA has nothing to do with mob nor maturity but rather PVE vs PVP.

Id like to claim that the HA maths that we know of are for PVE, but that the caluclations change for PVP.
 
A bit offtopic but, is it just me or are umbranoids way harder to hit than other mobs :\
 
Yes,,,yes they are
 
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