AMPS: How do they work.

dotcom is wrong ofc

V is 4peds so 4x16 is 64 which happens to be a XIII,

now do you think MA will let a huge 500ped hit become a mammoth 130k hit, 260x larger? with a oa108 :D
 
And if you hit a XXIII (unamped) with a OA-105 it will make it XXVIII :laugh::laugh:
 
I've found 1 dianum stone (size III) with oa-103, so how many stones would have i found without amp. And i dont't belive amp increases your mininum size as i have found tiny with oa-103 as well:D

Agreed.

It's not impossible to find III with OA-103, I think every deposit has an acutally value, but it's rounded because you can't have 0.5 stones, so a III dianum ore deposit might have 2.14 PED actual value but one stone is just 1.25 PED so it's rounded down to 1.25 PED as a result of III.

Disagree. I found a II Lyst with a 211(L) and OA104.... That was pretty much what made me chip out all my mining skills (about 12K PED worth of skills). If it was about the value of a rock and the rounding down, that would not have happened.

I think amps are just another way to change the gambling experience. Adding the amp to the finder and dropping a bomb is the same as placing a bet on who will win the World Series in three years. The odds are definately against you, but if you are right you will win big!
 
It's not impossible to find III with OA-103, I think every deposit has an acutally value, but it's rounded because you can't have 0.5 stones, so a III dianum ore deposit might have 2.14 PED actual value but one stone is just 1.25 PED so it's rounded down to 1.25 PED as a result of III.


definately possible, just happened to me yesterday again, when i found a III with a oa104

I think it is possible, because, claim-sizes are not set in the earth. whats set is what i call a claim-seed. Claim seeds may not vary in type of ressources, but they vary in sizes,depending on the deposits of the miner, the finder, the skills ( i disagree with ppl who say, skill have no effect on mining besides the choice of finders), the amps, MA gathering or spending loots (which results in upto -II to +II in claimsizes) and they are shifting in location.

So i think, whenever you hit an NRF unamped, there still may be seeds that would actually have size I. But a size I cant be found by normal mining. But it seems to me that amp decay is calculated in so size I gets a II or III or IV.

Unfortunately seeds seem to get marked, when probed and get a "paralysed" timer

my 2 pec
 
I agree with Nightbird and others in the thread, in my own words I would describe it like this:
It seems amps just shift the distribution of deposit size, in accordance to the TT value so that the average TT return does not change. More or less the same as hunting bigger mobs.
This means you can find size II with oa104 (one of the examples made in the thread) but it has a very low probability.

IMO using amps is good in 2 scenarios:
1. The markup is less than the average markup of resources in the area (remeber that the 1 ped bomb (0.5 probe) has no markup and should be taken in to account).
2. You feel like gambling, this is fun too. Sometimes I go hunt big trox, hoggs or mine with a big amp just for the excitment of maybe hitting something big. This is not a good plan in the long run and I would recommend to do it only when its peds you dont mind loosing quickly.


Now this quote is funny...
just a hint ... if your in a casino near a roulette table, and 5red come in a row... which color will you bet next? using amp is like that... use it when odd get favorable... :rolleyes:
If the ball lands 100 times on red, the probability of black in the next spin is still 50%.
Lookup "Gambler's Fallacy"...
 
If the ball lands 100 times on red, the probability of black in the next spin is still 50%.
Lookup "Gambler's Fallacy"...

True but the probability of seeing the series of "Red" continue is decreasing.
I love stats, you can always make them prove what you want to say :)
 
Sorry probably a bit off-topic, but am I the only one to notice amp is not working at all after the update today? Now I'm constantly finding III and IV while amped with OA-102, that's very unusual ...

EDITED: I just removed the amp, drop a few bombs unamped till I hit something, then put the amp on again. Now I start to find deposits at regular size (IV ~ VII). It seems my amp was temporary bugged ...
 
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True but the probability of seeing the series of "Red" continue is decreasing.
I love stats, you can always make them prove what you want to say :)

The probability of 101 red in a row is very low indeed, and 500 even lower and so on. All this is before anything happened.
But what happened in the last 100 spins does not effect the next spin after they have happened, the probabilty is the same as the very first spin of the table. It makes no difference if you know what happened before or not.
If a table really gave red 100 times I would think its broken, but assuming its working allright it is like I said.

With stats you can prove anything, but this is not stats.
This is probability, which is dry mathematical laws. This is not a matter of opinion or how you present it.

P.S. Sorry for the offtopic, but I think this misconception is also valid in many cases in EU.
 
But maybe them work like hunting amps?

I.e. oa 102 decays 1 ped so a click is 2 ped, bomb+decay. Now, you spend every click 2 ped (just like every shot with unamped opalo is 2 pec ammo+decay), and you get increase of 50% to 100% (just like dmg of same opalo is 4-8). Sometime you score criticals.

About value of finds and dianum example I had same question with a find in a LA: if I found 1 stone of dianum how the heck I payed tax? I built my answer that initial size of claim is calculated in ped with 5 decimals and then, under influence of some factors, is converted into ores and rounded accordingly.

The conclusion? You can control nothing but your risk.
 
Kerham, your theory is as good and likely as any other. None of which we can prove.

The conclusion? You can control nothing but your risk.

Risk = Variance.
Average return has not changed.

So basiclly it would mean that if you drop enough bombs amped you would have the same risk as a lower number of bombs unamped.

Different mechanism but more or less the same result.

The conclusion? Drop more bombs ;)
 
Quantity:Quality and Claim TT Size:Rarity

When crafting, you have a Quantity <=|=> Quality slider bar. Max Quantity yields more components produced over a crafting session. Max Quality yields higher TT value per success. Each blueprint's attempt TT cost is determined by its recipe of materials. Sometimes you receive some of your materials back. Any value above that held by the item(s) produced is found in residue and gems.

On average, you will produce less total TT value than the processed materials. I have not found any significant difference in total TT value produced over 2,000 attempt crafting sessions at max Quantity verus max Quality. Any profit is made from selling products at a markup.

With mining, you control the same options: Quantity, Quality, and attempt TT cost. Quality is controlled by the type of finder you use. The stronger finders increase your chances of finding rarer resources. Quantity is controlled by amping. Attempt TT cost is controlled by the drop cost: finder decay, amp decay, and probe or bomb cost.

Just like crafting Quantity, amping does not directly translate to larger claim TT sizes. Instead, it directly translates to more claims found. Since amping increases the attempt TT cost and the total TT cost of the mining run, the total TT value for the average mining run will be proportionately higher.

Do you have a greater chance of "getting a global" while your finder is amped? Very slightly, because you have a higher chance of finding a claim while your finder is amped. However, many of my global claims were found after the amp was broken and removed from the finder.

MindArk is a business, so its purpose is to make money. Where does that come from?
MindArk's business plan states that we aim for a cost of 1 USD per hour.
Specifically, the cost of 1 USD per hour is presumably per avatar. That money comes from us depositers. In game, that translates to 10 peds of expense extracted from avatars and retained by MindArk.

Whether hunting, mining, and crafting, I find average short session yields of around 50% TT value from the expenses directly related to loot attempts. Over a long session, or over a month, everything balances out to right around MindArk's business plan: a drain of about 10 PEDs per hour.

I strongly suspect that it is the total amount of avatar PED drain that most affects the chances of globalling. Strategically, I think that using an unamped TT finder is a great way to build up the PED drain pool. For example: if you've built up your PED drain pool, and your yield is under 25% of TT expense, it's good time to switch to your stronger, amped finder. So, if you are down 75peds on a run: amp up, keep going and be ready to get that screenie!
 
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For example: if you've built up your PED drain pool, and your yield is under 25% of TT expense, it's good time to switch to your stronger, amped finder. So, if you are down 75peds on a run: amp up, keep going and be ready to get that screenie!

This could be put this way u said or:

So if you are down 90k PED on a run: amp up, keep going and be ready to get that ATH :D

My point:
You never know when you are about to "balance out"...

Right now - I have a period I balance up after 5k PED of bombs... :rolleyes:

I.
 
Just like crafting Quantity, amping does not directly translate to larger claim TT sizes. Instead, it directly translates to more claims found. Since amping increases the attempt TT cost and the total TT cost of the mining run, the total TT value for the average mining run will be proportionately higher.

Do you have a greater chance of "getting a global" while your finder is amped? Very slightly, because you have a higher chance of finding a claim while your finder is amped. However, many of my global claims were found after the amp was broken and removed from the finder.

Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean, that is false.
When using amps your average find sizes are bigger, no doubt about that. Avereage percent of return is the same, just goes through more peds quicker.
In my opinion it doesnt increase your chance of finding a deposit either, this point can be debated though.
 
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This is all theoretical at best. Fact is that you do not know where mining sites will spawn if they even do spawn. There are too many questions and fewer answers.

PE/EU is an expensive "game" when compared to other MMOS but there is nothing that changes as much as this product. At least it isn't boring. I am planning to revive the spiral theory again (yes he is doing it again, you will say) because I have collected a lot more data that could be very useful.
 
Do you have a greater chance of "getting a global" while your finder is amped? Very slightly, because you have a higher chance of finding a claim while your finder is amped. However, many of my global claims were found after the amp was broken and removed from the finder.

the chance of getting a global with 0A103 and above is significantly more than without, as it amplifies the size of the find. yeah, it does, and this is pretty well known. You increase the number of finds with an amp because you are finding deposits that would otherwise be too small in value to find.

Now, whether those globals will cover the increased cost is really what at the heart of the matter.
 
This is all theoretical at best. Fact is that you do not know where mining sites will spawn if they even do spawn. There are too many questions and fewer answers.

PE/EU is an expensive "game" when compared to other MMOS but there is nothing that changes as much as this product. At least it isn't boring. I am planning to revive the spiral theory again (yes he is doing it again, you will say) because I have collected a lot more data that could be very useful.

Didnt you quit? :rolleyes::eek::D
 
Didnt you quit? :rolleyes::eek::D

You wish! ... :)

No, seriously, I like to read Rattexs therioes, same goes for Nightbirds. Its goor entertainment, you never know what they will come up with next :)
And Rattex actually, very quick: I remember when he just started playing. One week he was asking how brop a bomb, what is vein, ... next week he have his first "working" theory, ... second week he founded mining society ....

Very amusing. ;)
 
You wish! ... :)

No, seriously, I like to read Rattexs therioes, same goes for Nightbirds. Its goor entertainment, you never know what they will come up with next :)
And Rattex actually, very quick: I remember when he just started playing. One week he was asking how brop a bomb, what is vein, ... next week he have his first "working" theory, ... second week he founded mining society ....

Very amusing. ;)


hehe i sure not wish :D but he did tell me he did quit but i guess he couldnt keep his fingers away :p
 
Correction: amps increase individual claim sizes

I apologize for this mispost:
Just like crafting Quantity, amping does not directly translate to larger claim TT sizes. Instead, it directly translates to more claims found. Since amping increases the attempt TT cost and the total TT cost of the mining run, the total TT value for the average mining run will be proportionately higher.

Do you have a greater chance of "getting a global" while your finder is amped? Very slightly, because you have a higher chance of finding a claim while your finder is amped. However, many of my global claims were found after the amp was broken and removed from the finder.

Correction:
I have received reports from some miners of finding only one claim on a run using a full 104 amp, and those claims were larger sized globals.

Yesterday, I used a full MF106L with a Tik200L on a 200 drop run. I found several claims from sizes VII to XI while amped, and claims from sizes II to IX while unamped. After the run, I put everything into the TT window and the total was within 2.5% of 350 peds (the TT value of MF106L and 200 probes).
 
Think the old idea that it shifts the find size is just an easy way of explaining a more complicated process and as a result causes confusion when it doesnt work exactly like what it sounds like it should. I myself have explained it this way to some of my students because it is easy to understand and does not take a 2 hour talk of ingame economics and mathimatic balencing formulas.
I agree with those that are saying it increases a chance % of finding certain sizes and more rare ores/ens. What it does not do is guarente that you will find a II or better find or what type of materials found.
The wise use of amps is when you know what you are looking for and where your chances of finding that material are better than other places. Then you go there, hook up the 108, say a short prayer to Lootis and letter rip! Once you have burned through your amp and its broke, dont worry ;) I can almost guarente that you will find some super rare material or global:laugh:
 
Amps just help us to reach a limmit of spending. During the use of the amp, ur claims are a little bit increased, ur skills gains too. When u have reached a certain limit of spending, u are on the list of hofable ppl. U just need to mine a bit, anywere it seems, and u will have ur reward. In the hof basket of the day, there is some small hofs, some bigs, and sometime an ATH :)

Is thats the way how it work ?
 
I think the main part of finding a rare ore is based on the finder and the individual's skills. Location, of course, is the only true part of the equation we can control - we choose where to drop the bomb.

The amp... well I am starting to think that mining amps are basically like glasses for someone with difficulty seeing. The amp amplifies the skills of the avatar - perhaps the amp inserts a multiplier into the equation. I do not believe amps will allow you find rare ores that are not within your skill range nor will an amp allow you to go deeper. That will be difficult to prove, since an unskilled miner can find a claim at 800 meters with the TT finder. Just keep in mind, the stats show the AVERAGE search depth. Since it is average, you can expect spikes above and below the average.

I am not sure how to test this at all, but no real harm throwing another theory out there. I am curious to what the community thinks.

Good luck to all!
 
I still think skills play an important part in how well you use any tool even after the Skill Bonus period is up. When amps first hit the scene I was very successful at using OA102s and OA103s if I went any higher than that my success rate fell. As my skills have increased I find I my successful range has moved up to OA102 to OA105 anything above that and my success rate dramatically decreases while the amp cost and usage go up. I take that as my skills increase, my successful range will move accordingly with them.

I also think its the same with finders my first OF213 was a complete disaster but now I find I can utilize higher level tools with a better success rate and the only way I can attribute this is to higher skills and more unlocks.

Just because the stats say you can use a tool does'nt mean you can use it to its full potential. For the most part mining tools are easy to unlock but I think going outside of your successful range while it might yield a great find is a big risk. EU is all about Risk VS Reward.

For the most part I gave up on amps unless I am using a 1000m finder and looking for rare resources. My day to day skill building consists of using tools I have used for years looking for common materials.

Amps of all types are modifiers but using them successfully is dependant on skills (inside and outside EU) and equipment combonations. When people say they find tinys with OA103 its possible they are not in their successful range or that deposit was a minimal deposit which was raised to the highest level tiny.

I once used an OA106 on CND and got the same deposit sizes as an OA103 I had used earlier. Even though the stats said I could use that OA106 I think my skill level at the time hindered me in using it effectively.

Also in the past before amps and messed up meteors you used to get finds that said "This resource is to small to be mined effectively" Now no matter what if you find something it will yield at least one stone.

Amp or not to amp? that is the question and just choose wisely
 
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"This resource is to small to be mined effectively"

now this is interesting and fits good into my deposit-seeds theory i have described before. Yeah that explains to me how you can find a II or III with an oa103 amp.

Given that the found deposit is raised by the factor of the decay spent by using an amp (oa103 = 300%), a 20pec "deposit-seed" can turn out to be a 60pec find and therefor a II. Without the amp you wouldnt find it, it cannot be mined effectively.

Theres one thing i have to add: I experienced when i hit amped that i hit a lot of minimum ped tt possible for the certain size. Like 50peder on a XIII. Unamped mining almost never does this, anyone else that made that experience?
 
I once used an OA106 on CND and got the same deposit sizes as an OA103 I had used earlier. Even though the stats said I could use that OA106 I think my skill level at the time hindered me in using it effectively.

Do you mean by 'can use' that you are just good enough for the tool or were you way beyond the OA106 at that time?
 
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