How Armor Works

I have added the article to Entropedia: Template: armor decay. I made some minor changes: Replaced "wiki" with "Entropedia", added links to all armor, plate and mob names, and I left out the non armor related part. If you do not agree with any of the changes I made, feel free to change them back ;).

EDIT: also added "*Note that these are theoretical values, as the most an armor can ever absorb is its maximum protecion, given that all relevant damage types are offered. " under the graphs.
 
Last edited:
Excellent.
+rep.

I might have to read it more than once though, to fully understand.

Can I perhaps make a slight suggestion....

Could the following be amended
For armors with durability below 10000 the formula is:

Decay = (0.003 x dmg^1.75 + 0.05 x dmg) x (1 - Durability/100000)

For armors with durability above 10,000 the formula is:

Decay = [0.0015 x (3-Durability/10000) x dmg^1.75 + 0.05 x dmg]x (1 - Durability/100000)
to
For armors with durability below 10,000 the formula is:

Decay = (0.0030 x dmg^1.75 + 0.05 x dmg) x (1 - Durability/100,000)

For armors with durability above 10,000 the formula is:

Decay = [0.0015 x (3-Durability/10,000) x dmg^1.75 + 0.05 x dmg]x (1 - Durability/100,000)

(IE add decimal separators (Commas , )to the big numbers, makes them lots easier to read, and add a superfluous 0 to the 0.003, as that makes it easier to see the other formula is using half that value..Of course it might juts be my mild dyslexia working against me...;))

Also, do you think it would help if you put in a examples for each formula, using an armour that has an (L) and an non-L version (such as ghost, 2,000 durability and 12,000), same damage, as I tried a few private calculations, and got the L armour coming out with more dmg, when I believe it should have been less, so I must have got my numbers in a twist:scratch2::confused:
 
Wonderfull thread, very usefull.
Thank all who did that possible.
 
I have to say though I don't like how lack of one protection type for an armor can be made up for with another protection type. So if a mob does 25 impact and 25 electric damage, the armor could absorb all the damage with 50 impact protection and no electric. This doesn't make sense. If an armor doesn't have electric protection it shouldn't be able to protect against it. This means, for example, that you could take ghost with 1 acid protection, slap 5b's on it and have 32 acid/impact protection (31 impact and 1 acid), if the mob also does impact damage. Or am I misunderstanding?

Yeah, some people like it, some don't. It's just the way it is.

With the Ghost+5B acid query. Yes in a way. It depends on how much damage the mob is doing though.

If it hits you for 19 Impact and 13 Acid you'll absorb it all yes since the Ghost protects 19 Impact and 1 Acid and the plates protect another 12 Impact.

If it hit you for say 20 Acid and 10 Impact, Ghost would protect 10 Impact, 1 Acid and the plates would protect 10 Impact - so you'd take a 9.0 hit.

If it hit you for 50 Impact and 20 Acid, the effect would be irrelevant (since the Ghost and plates don't cover all the impact).

Hmm id like to know exactly what % will Serum bee wery good to invest = with 8aL Plates also % = it.

Well, like I said, Serum will be roughly 20% more efficient than an UL armor (little bit more for large hits, little bit less for smaller hits). So just for decay considerations you maybe want to buy at 120%. But the constant protection, and the fact the armor has better protection for certain mobs than the low-markup UL armors may cause you to judge it worth a higher markup than that. There's no numbers I can quote for those things though, the last two require a bit of personal judgement I guess, and depend on what other armors you have.

I have added the article to Entropedia: Template: armor decay. I made some minor changes: Replaced "wiki" with "Entropedia", added links to all armor, plate and mob names, and I left out the non armor related part. If you do not agree with any of the changes I made, feel free to change them back ;).

EDIT: also added "*Note that these are theoretical values, as the most an armor can ever absorb is its maximum protecion, given that all relevant damage types are offered. " under the graphs.

Nice Witte thanks.

(IE add decimal separators (Commas , )to the big numbers, makes them lots easier to read, and add a superfluous 0 to the 0.003, as that makes it easier to see the other formula is using half that value..Of course it might juts be my mild dyslexia working against me...;))

Also, do you think it would help if you put in a examples for each formula, using an armour that has an (L) and an non-L version (such as ghost, 2,000 durability and 12,000), same damage, as I tried a few private calculations, and got the L armour coming out with more dmg, when I believe it should have been less, so I must have got my numbers in a twist:scratch2::confused:

Right, I'll leave the commas out for now unless other people request it. My reason for choosing to do that originally is that people in some countries use , as the decimal place so things could get confusing.

I'll put a couple of examples here, I may add them to the post later:

Shadow (5000):

Decay = 0.95 x (0.003 x dmg^1.75 + 0.05 x dmg)

Spartacus (15000):

Decay = 0.85 x (0.00225 x dmg^1.75 + 0.05 x dmg)

So 115 damaged absorbed will decay Shadow by 16.97 pec, compared to 12.61 pec for Spartacus. A nice example of how L armors decay even less compared to UL armors for big hits, the Spartacus takes about 26% off here. Not that you'll ever get Spartacus for 126% ;)
 
With the Ghost+5B acid query. Yes in a way. It depends on how much damage the mob is doing though.

If it hits you for 19 Impact and 13 Acid you'll absorb it all yes since the Ghost protects 19 Impact and 1 Acid and the plates protect another 12 Impact.

If it hit you for say 20 Acid and 10 Impact, Ghost would protect 10 Impact, 1 Acid and the plates would protect 10 Impact - so you'd take a 9.0 hit.

Ok, now I am confused... by the difference in the two examples you gave. In the first example, the ghost protects against the remaining 12 acid damage by using the additional impact protection, but in the second example it does not.. why? I'm also confused by the second example when considering your original post where you say angel + 5b absorbs the acid damage done by kreltin when it has no acid protection at all. :scratch2:
 
Ok, now I am confused... by the difference in the two examples you gave. In the first example, the ghost protects against the remaining 12 acid damage by using the additional impact protection, but in the second example it does not.. why?

in the second example, you are overprotected wrt impact. you're hit by 10 and ghost could have protected for 19. these extra 9 points are "wasted", you're not using them to counter the acid damage.
 
in the second example, you are overprotected wrt impact. you're hit by 10 and ghost could have protected for 19. these extra 9 points are "wasted", you're not using them to counter the acid damage.

Ok, I understand that. But this is a very weird way of handling mob damage. So if some imaginary mob does 30 impact and 12 acid to someone wearing angel + 5b, the angel will first absorb all the impact, and then the impact protection of the 5b's will absorb all the acid damage. But if the mob does 31 impact and 11 acid, the armor will absorb 30 impact, the plates will absorb the remaining 1 impact, and then there will be 11 acid damage to the avatar. Very strange and illogical...

Ok, consider this scenario.. you have an armor that protects 30 impact and plates that protect 12 impact and 1 acid. A mob hits for 31 impact and 12 acid. If the impact damage is presented to the armor/plates first, then 30 will be absorbed by the armor, 1 by the plates and the avatar will take 12 acid damage. But if the acid is presented to the armor first, the armor will absorb 0 acid damage, the plates will absorb 12, then the impact damage is presented and the armor absorbs 30 and the avatar takes 1 impact damage. So there would be a difference of 11 damage depending on which damage is presented first, just because the plates have 1 acid protection. Is this correct? If so, do you know the order in which the different damage types are presented to the armor/plates?
 
Ok, I understand that. But this is a very weird way of handling mob damage. So if some imaginary mob does 30 impact and 12 acid to someone wearing angel + 5b, the angel will first absorb all the impact, and then the impact protection of the 5b's will absorb all the acid damage. But if the mob does 31 impact and 11 acid, the armor will absorb 30 impact, the plates will absorb the remaining 1 impact, and then there will be 11 acid damage to the avatar. Very strange and illogical...

the plates would absorb 10 impact; remember that full dmg is presented to both armor AND plates.
it is counter-intuitive, i agree.
 
the plates would absorb 10 impact; remember that full dmg is presented to both armor AND plates.
it is counter-intuitive, i agree.

5B absorb 12 impact :smash: So in that example, total damage you absorb is 30+12=42 so total damage you receive is 0, or 1
 
5B absorb 12 impact :smash: So in that example, total damage you absorb is 30+12=42 so total damage you receive is 0, or 1

hehe, yeah, that's what i meant :silly2:
 
the plates would absorb 10 impact; remember that full dmg is presented to both armor AND plates.
it is counter-intuitive, i agree.

Ah, yes, all the damage, twice... sorry, lack of sleep...
 
Great Post:) finally i understood how the new decly works:)
+rep
 
So if some imaginary mob does 30 impact and 12 acid to someone wearing angel + 5b, the angel will first absorb all the impact, and then the impact protection of the 5b's will absorb all the acid damage.

I think from your next response jdegre and Witte have covered the query.

I'll just add, that in the example I've quoted, I don't think you should think of it in terms of the 5B absorbing the acid. They don't absorb any acid, they absorb 12 Impact. The acid never actually gets absorbed, but you absorb more Impact than is actually done.

In some ways maybe that's the way to look at it.

So the armor absorbs 30 Impact. The plates absorb 12 Impact. So you've absorbed 42 Impact.

The hit was for 30 Impact, 12 Acid. After absorbing 42 impact, the hit is now for -12 Impact, 12 Acid. Which adds up to 0 so you get a 1.0 hit.

I know it makes absolutely no sense to have negative damage realistically, but I think its the least confusing way to look at it mathematically.
 
So, by the same token, Angel+5Bs would render feff warlords down to only 1.0 dmg? or close enough. Even though they do mostly cold.

Since no self respecting hunter would do this, I can see why this was missed, vs. the Kreltin example.

So as long as we have massive amounts of armor in 1 category the mob dmgs, that'll help against the other dmgs? Assuming there's "left over protection" to compensate.
 
So, by the same token, Angel+5Bs would render feff warlords down to only 1.0 dmg? or close enough. Even though they do mostly cold.

Since no self respecting hunter would do this, I can see why this was missed, vs. the Kreltin example.

So as long as we have massive amounts of armor in 1 category the mob dmgs, that'll help against the other dmgs? Assuming there's "left over protection" to compensate.

Its not about how much damage you can protect, its about how much you can absorb. An angel armor can only absorb 35% of a fef warlord. The plate maybe 20%? so in total you wil just absorb ~55% at most
 
The full damage is offered to both the plates and the armor. So the armor absorbs 10 Impact from the attack. The plates also absorb 10 Impact from the attack. These are added together and the result is that you have absorbed 20 damage from the attack. Thus, even though you have no acid protection, you take a 1.0 Hit.

Its not about how much damage you can protect, its about how much you can absorb. An angel armor can only absorb 35% of a fef warlord. The plate maybe 20%? so in total you wil just absorb ~55% at most

Maybe i am still suffering from the non-stop shooting in merry mayhem, but this sounds contradictory to me...

Jimmy B., could you please post more examples, with more details about how the decay is distributed between plates and armor and how the % in damage types distribution affects the absorbed damage?
 
So, by the same token, Angel+5Bs would render feff warlords down to only 1.0 dmg? or close enough. Even though they do mostly cold.

Feffoid Warlord does a maximum of 55 damage of which 18 is Impact, 37 is Cold. So on a maximum hit, Angel would protect 18 Impact, 5B would protect 12 Impact. 30 protection so you take a 25.0 hit.

A minimum hit will be 27.5 damage of which 9 is Impact, 18.5 is Cold. So on a minimum hit Angel would protect 9 Impact, Plates would protect 9 Impact. 18 Protection so you take a 9.5 damage hit.

So Feffoid Warlord hits you for 9.5-25.0 if you're in Angel+5B.

Jimmy B., could you please post more examples, with more details about how the decay is distributed between plates and armor and how the % in damage types distribution affects the absorbed damage?

% in damage types is not the correct way to look at it. Every mob does a specific amount of maximum damage. Just like one of your weapon's may do say 50 Burn, 5 Impact, a mob does damage in much the same way (see example above).

The % in damage types are a guide only. It varies a little with maturity.

Anyway, basically when you get hit this happens:

(i) The full hit is offered to your armor. Its absorbs as much as it can and decays accordingly.

(ii) The full hit is also offered to your plates. Its absorbs as much as it can (regardless of how much the armor absorbed) and decays accordingly.

(iii) The damage absorbed by the armor and the damage absorbed by the plates are subtracted from the total damage. Whatever is left is what you get hit for, if its negative (or less than 1) you get hit for 1.0.

(see example in response to Xen above)
 
Last edited:
Feffoid Warlord does a maximum of 55 damage of which 18 is Impact, 37 is Cold. So on a maximum hit, Angel would protect 18 Impact, 5B would protect 12 Impact. 30 protection so you take a 25.0 hit.

A minimum hit will be 27.5 damage of which 9 is Impact, 18.5 is Cold. So on a minimum hit Angel would protect 9 Impact, Plates would protect 9 Impact. 18 Protection so you take a 9.5 damage hit.

So Feffoid Warlord hits you for 9.5-25.0 if you're in Angel+5B.

WTF... is that really how it works? How long has it worked like that? That has got to be one of the most most cock-eyed and senseless things I've seen in this game.

Why wouldn't they just make the armor/plate combo protect for what it says it will protect? A max hit on Angel/5B from Feff Warlord should be 37 in my head... perhaps I'm missing something.
 
Thanks mate. that's what I get for thinking of an example without double checking the numbers before posting.

However, that example worked great at showing how the full protection works on both ends of the scale. Thanks much.
 
WTF... is that really how it works? How long has it worked like that? That has got to be one of the most most cock-eyed and senseless things I've seen in this game.

Why wouldn't they just make the armor/plate combo protect for what it says it will protect? A max hit on Angel/5B from Feff Warlord should be 37 in my head... perhaps I'm missing something.

Yes, its really how it works. Its worked like that forever as far as I know.

It is a little weird and not what you'd expect I agree. It does mean you can get some more protection than you'd expect sometimes. It does also mean if you're careless you can get some more unnecessary decay than you'd expect sometimes.

As to why it works like that I don't know. The problem I guess is that plates can't be seen as simply extensions of armor (since they have their own durabilities and hence decay differently). I guess if it worked in a different way there'd sometimes be a difficulty in deciding how to spread the damage between plates and armor (which would affect how much you decayed).

But I dunno - I didn't make it like that :D

Thanks mate. that's what I get for thinking of an example without double checking the numbers before posting.

However, that example worked great at showing how the full protection works on both ends of the scale. Thanks much.

yw :)
 
I still don't get it :D:D:D

Monkey/giraffe example is clear: 32-30=-2

But angel/feff example use another algoritm and diffrence is angel covers all impact.
 
Monkey/giraffe example is clear: 32-30=-2

But angel/feff example use another algoritm and diffrence is angel covers all impact.

Sorry, I removed the Monkey and Giraffe as I thought it was confusing.

The fact that angel covers all the impact is irrelevant. All the impact is offered to both the armor and the plates. If a mob hit me for 30 Impact and both my armor and plates could protect 30 Impact then they would both absorb 30 Impact. So I would absorb a total of 60 Impact.

So I would receive 30 - 60 = -30 Impact damage. If the mob was also doing 30 Oregano damage that would be cancelled out by the -30 Impact damage even though no armors can protect against Oregano.

If instead the mob was also doing 40 Oregano damage, there would be 10 of it left over and 30 of it would be cancelled by the -30 Impact damage. So I'd get hit for 10 damage.
 
Anyway, basically when you get hit this happens:

(i) The full hit is offered to your armor. Its absorbs as much as it can and decays accordingly.

(ii) The full hit is also offered to your plates. Its absorbs as much as it can (regardless of how much the armor absorbed) and decays accordingly.

(iii) The damage absorbed by the armor and the damage absorbed by the plates are subtracted from the total damage. Whatever is left is what you get hit for, if its negative (or less than 1) you get hit for 1.0.

(see example in response to Xen above)

Thank you. That is most clear and explains "the phenomena of decay"
Now I have to think some more about armor and plates matching.
 
As to why it works like that I don't know. The problem I guess is that plates can't be seen as simply extensions of armor (since they have their own durabilities and hence decay differently). I guess if it worked in a different way there'd sometimes be a difficulty in deciding how to spread the damage between plates and armor (which would affect how much you decayed).

Ya, thanks for doing the research (to all who did)... I suppose this could be MA's way of getting people to buy multiple armor/plates and not just get 1 set that protects as much as possible.
 
If the mob was also doing 30 Oregano damage that would be cancelled out by the -30 Impact damage even though no armors can protect against Oregano.

ROFL

Oregano damage will come with italian pizza cooks introduced in VU 15.xx ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist...
 
Thank you. That is most clear and explains "the phenomena of decay"

Thanks, I've amended the section on plates in the first post to include the explanation you quoted.

I suppose this could be MA's way of getting people to buy multiple armor/plates and not just get 1 set that protects as much as possible.

Its possible that was an influence, although bear in mind that until recently no-one (publically) knew it worked like that ;)

However, just using 1 set that protects as much as possible isn't generally a good plan anyway. The way plates work admittedly can make it even worse. But overprotecting is always bad (even if you're not even wearing plates). Getting all 1.0 hits just means you're absorbing more damage than you need to. Taking a range of hits from say 1.0 to 30.0 isn't likely to cause you to have to fap much, and so is better than absorbing all the extra and always taking 1.0s.


ROFL

Oregano damage will come with italian pizza cooks introduced in VU 15.xx ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist...

I look forward to it :D
 
At the moment, it seems like the mobs do simply XX.X damage, and there are certain protections types of your armor taken into account when calculating the remaining damage done! (i.e. Cut, Burn & Electric for SEGs)

Doesn't that mean we aren't even able determine the distribution of damage types?

There can't be any working method, if other protections will lower the share of a specific damage, the whole % of damage types seems to be an outdated theoretical model now!
 
At the moment, it seems like the mobs do simply XX.X damage, and there are certain protections types of your armor taken into account when calculating the remaining damage done! (i.e. Cut, Burn & Electric for SEGs)

Doesn't that mean we aren't even able determine the distribution of damage types?

There can't be any working method, if other protections will lower the share of a specific damage, the whole % of damage types seems to be an outdated theoretical model now!

This only has impact in combination with plates, and only in a couple of specific situations.
 
Thanks for the info Jimmy...

2 questions;

1) Is there a thread somewhere regarding the testing of mob damage types versus maturity?

2) If not, how do you accurately test the damage types on a mob?


~Red
 
Back
Top