How Armor Works

Bombay said:

and if not can we get it closed?

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OMG!

Do values of armor pieces stack to offer some form of "total" body protection?

Or do they only protect that particular part of the body?

ie. If I only wear a helmet, gloves, and boots. Am I getting their combined value protection for the rest of my body? Or, is my chest totally exposed?

Armor parts protect only area for which they are designed so if you are hit in unprotected part of body you get full dmg.

Grisza said:

Armor parts protect only area for which they are designed so if you are hit in unprotected part of body you get full dmg.

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Ok. Thanks.

I suggest that we re-test armour decay based on durability now that we have the possibilty to create armours with insane levels of durability through tiers (30400 max for rutuba tier 10), which would give you negative decay if you didn't count in the effect of minimum decay.

Edit: and we can also fill in the durability curve between 5000 and 10,000 once we have uber tier uber armours.

Hijacker27 said:

I suggest that we re-test armour decay based on durability now that we have the possibilty to create armours with insane levels of durability through tiers (30400 max for rutuba tier 10), which would give you negative decay if you didn't count in the effect of minimum decay.

Edit: and we can also fill in the durability curve between 5000 and 10,000 once we have uber tier uber armours.

Click to expand...

Hmm, that brings some interesting questions. I wonder if a protection enhancer increases the minimum decay for the armor.

It would be interesting to see if there is a continuous curve. I'd hazard a guess that there isn't, and that tier 10 mod shadow (at 12000 durability) would still follow the curve for UL armors and not jump to the lower decay of L armors.

I don't think 30400 durability is enough to induce negative decay. At 34000 durability you do have a strange situation where hits higher than 99 would decay the armor less than a hit of 99. But Inflitrator Reworked is the only armor that could get that high, so unless MA wants to give me a set, it would be hard to test that

Coop_ said:

Hmm, that brings some interesting questions. I wonder if a protection enhancer increases the minimum decay for the armor.

It would be interesting to see if there is a continuous curve. I'd hazard a guess that there isn't, and that tier 10 mod shadow (at 12000 durability) would still follow the curve for UL armors and not jump to the lower decay of L armors.

I don't think 30400 durability is enough to induce negative decay. At 34000 durability you do have a strange situation where hits higher than 99 would decay the armor less than a hit of 99. But Inflitrator Reworked is the only armor that could get that high, so unless MA wants to give me a set, it would be hard to test that

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Try a 122 rutuba hit at 30400 durability

or 138 if you're doing warlocks

So decay would be:

[0.0015 * (3 - 30400/10000) * 138^1.75 + 0.05 * 138] * (1 - 30400/100000)
[0.0015 * (3 - 3.04) * 5556.33 + 6.9] * (1 - .3)
[-0.33 + 6.9] * 0.7
[6.57] * 0.7
4.57 pecs

Very low decay for sure, but not negative

Coop_ said:

So decay would be:

[0.0015 * (3 - 30400/10000) * 138^1.75 + 0.05 * 138] * (1 - 30400/100000)
[0.0015 * (3 - 3.04) * 5556.33 + 6.9] * (1 - .3)
[-0.33 + 6.9] * 0.7
[6.57] * 0.7
4.57 pecs

Very low decay for sure, but not negative

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Then the calculator on entropedia must be wrong

Hijacker27 said:

Then the calculator on entropedia must be wrong

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Yikes, you are correct about that. Maybe it's using the UL formula for everything?

Yeah, definitely some interesting questions to be answered.

I have a high tier, high durability armour piece that may eventually get to tier 10 so I'll do some testing on that some time.

Coop_ said:

Yikes, you are correct about that. Maybe it's using the UL formula for everything?

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Turned out the code I used only worked correct until 20000 durability. I improved the code so it also works for higher durability now.

Witte said:

Turned out the code I used only worked correct until 20000 durability. I improved the code so it also works for higher durability now.

Click to expand...

Yep, it got the 138 hit on 30400 durability right this time. Thanks.

hello,

my appreciation to all who contributed their efforts to this research ...GREAT JOB ... those, who actually capable to "think first and shoot after" will really benefit

I have a case - I want to do Feffoid mission, 100s ...
Feff Outcast does 28 damage, 25% impact, 75% cold
and I tried that with Pixie on and Keshmek Slo ... a week ago ..
made it, but was hard ...
so gave it up as I did not have 4D ... to protect against cold ...
was actually looking for 4D afterwards, but switched to drones then ...

SO,

once I read this post I understood that I don't need 4D ...
I concluded that Goblin + 5b are enough ... both have 24 impact summarized protection, so as a result of every hit I will get just 4 damage from Feff outcast and that is going to be one of the most eco hunt on it

am I right?

another conclusion of mine:

- the higher the tt of the armor, the higher protection it gives, but decay in pecs stays the same [given that armor set stays same]

right?

Question:
- is that statement same for plates as well? if not, how it is different?



CASE: Hunting Drones Gen 2.
Option 1: with Shogun + 6a
Option 2: with Vigilant

[figures rounded]

Option 1:
Drones Gen 2 - 39 damage, 30% Penetration [12], 70% Burn [27]
Shogun: Penetration 5, Burn 10,
6A: Penetration 11, Burn 12,

Armor absorbs 5/10 ...... 6A absorbs 11/12 .... both they absorb 16/22 ..... if this is subtracted from damage points received (12+27)-(16+22)=1 ..... only 1 point is left ... and this is the damage what I receive ...

is this right calc? do I follow the right logic? if not Id appreciate if you correct me ...


Option 2:
Drones Gen 2 - 39 damage, 30% Penetration [12], 70% Burn [27]
Vigitant: Penetration 14, Impact 7, Burn 14, Cut 14, Stab 14

Vigi Armor absorbs 12/14 ...... and the damage left to be absorbed is Burn 13 ..... and this is also absorbed as vigi has protection from other types of attacks so I will get just 1 gamage

is this right calc? do I follow the right logic? if not Id appreciate if you correct me ...


if none of these are correct, Id appreciate if you correct me and give specific figures in cases of Option 1 and 2 ... specific figures of damage absorbed and the way it is absorbed and decay figures ...

TigerSkin said:

another conclusion of mine:

- the higher the tt of the armor, the higher protection it gives, but decay in pecs stays the same [given that armor set stays same]

right?

Question:
- is that statement same for plates as well? if not, how it is different?



CASE: Hunting Drones Gen 2.
Option 1: with Shogun + 6a
Option 2: with Vigilant

[figures rounded]

Option 1:
Drones Gen 2 - 39 damage, 30% Penetration [12], 70% Burn [27]
Shogun: Penetration 5, Burn 10,
6A: Penetration 11, Burn 12,

Armor absorbs 5/10 ...... 6A absorbs 11/12 .... both they absorb 16/22 ..... if this is subtracted from damage points received (12+27)-(16+22)=1 ..... only 1 point is left ... and this is the damage what I receive ...

is this right calc? do I follow the right logic? if not Id appreciate if you correct me ...


Option 2:
Drones Gen 2 - 39 damage, 30% Penetration [12], 70% Burn [27]
Vigitant: Penetration 14, Impact 7, Burn 14, Cut 14, Stab 14

Vigi Armor absorbs 12/14 ...... and the damage left to be absorbed is Burn 13 ..... and this is also absorbed as vigi has protection from other types of attacks so I will get just 1 gamage

is this right calc? do I follow the right logic? if not Id appreciate if you correct me ...


if none of these are correct, Id appreciate if you correct me and give specific figures in cases of Option 1 and 2 ... specific figures of damage absorbed and the way it is absorbed and decay figures ...

Click to expand...

Armor decays based on the amount of protection it gives. If an armor is repaired only 50%, then it gives only 50% of its max protection, but the decay per hit is based on that lower protection amount. You do at some point run into the minimum decay for the armor, which is .01 pecs times the total max protection for the armor, i.e. .84 pecs for ghost.

Your option 1 is correct above, but option 2 is not correct. You correctly note that vigi would protect against all 12 points of penetration, plus 14 of the 27 points of burn. The other 13 points of burn you would take as damage as the other types of protection from vigi don't apply to drone attacks.

thx Coop,

appearently my case with respect to goblin and Feffs is not valid ...

now, an observation

later I hunt a lot and log every cost/income ... let me describe the strange thing that I monitor with respect to armor ...

I use the combination of Paladin/Shogun during hunt on Drones
before I hunted Faucervixes, before that I did some 100s missions ...
during 1 round of hunt I use nearly 345 ped, that is 1 Keshmek Slo ...
after hunt I analyze results
Drones I hunt mainly are 01-03, rarely 04, at Jason Center ...
I can not say how many drones I kill per round ... but figures still speak for themselves ...

round x
when armor tt before hunt was 84.18, after the whole round it decayed only by 8.88 peds
round x+1
when armor tt before hunt was 75.03, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.72 peds
round x+2
when armor tt before hunt was 80.79, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.08 peds
round x+3
when armor tt before hunt was 75.74, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.58 peds
round x+4
when armor tt before hunt was 101.07, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.49 peds
round x+5
when armor tt before hunt was 91.52, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.3 peds

at this moment I enlightened myself via this thread and repaired my set to max

round x+6
when armor tt before hunt was 199.5, after the whole round it decayed only by 18.63 peds

I was truly suprised, but repaired again to max

round x+7
when armor tt before hunt was 199.5, after the whole round it decayed only by 19.82 peds

at this point I wrote here in this thread
and
decided to not to repqire armor any more and depreciate it till I reach the level, when my decay was only around 10 ped per round ...

and less prepared gave less decay [but more damage]

round x+8
when armor tt before hunt was 179.68, after the whole round it decayed only by 17.97 peds

u better know, but repairing the set to full tt did not gave promised results, may be something is changed ... at least in the case of the set I use ... or may be Im not recording everything ... sometimes I used 6a plates too, but using that does not affect armor decay as far as I guess

and now getting ready for next round ... and ready to depreciate my armor futrther and analyse results

if u are interested in detailed logs, Im ready to share ...
if u have additional questions, ready to give info...

one additional note ...

need to admit, that in the last round case I used BreerM2a + Omegaton A102, so less decay can only be explained that Drones hit me less as I was making at least 4-5 shots before they would approach me on the shooting distance. Those may make not a hige difference, but still make a bit of difference ...

Sorry, I missed the earlier question about Goblin+5b on feffs. You are correct that the impact protection of armor and plate are checked separately against the damage done by the feff, then the protection of each subtracted from the feffs total. So armor and plate with decent damage protection add up to fine protection against feffs.

I would say your weapon is a bit low for a regen mob though. You might want to team up with a friend for those missions.

Regarding the decay against drones, your armor worked as expected. When it was unrepaired, it protected you less but also cost less in decay. After you repaired it the decay per run jumped way up, but so did the protection you got.

Did you have to fap much on the drone runs? How did your fap decay compare?

And shooting from range on them would make a significant difference in the decay per run.

thx Coop,

yes, Feffs are too costly for my weapon atm ...
thats another reason why I left them ...
later we'll see

in fact I thought that armor decay per hit would be same no matter what the tt is. so thats not the case ... i c now ...

I use t1 and sk-20 [90%] during my runs and log costs.
here Ill give joint results and add fap costs
BUT
to make sure u see thw whole pictire I will indicate 6a decay

round x
when armor tt before hunt was 84.18, after the whole round it decayed only by 8.88 peds. heal cost - 10.51. 6A decay - 0.00
round x+1
when armor tt before hunt was 75.03, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.72 peds. heal cost - 6.48. 6A decay - 13.24
round x+2
when armor tt before hunt was 80.79, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.08 peds. heal cost - 5.17. 6A decay - 19.72
round x+3
when armor tt before hunt was 75.74, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.58 peds. heal cost - 7.91. 6A decay - 18.13
round x+4
when armor tt before hunt was 101.07, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.49 peds. heal cost - 5.34. 6A decay - 14.52
round x+5
when armor tt before hunt was 91.52, after the whole round it decayed only by 9.3 peds. heal cost - 9.78. 6A decay - 13.27
round x+6
when armor tt before hunt was 199.5, after the whole round it decayed only by 18.63 peds. heal cost - 1.39. 6A decay - 19.18
round x+7
when armor tt before hunt was 199.5, after the whole round it decayed only by 19.82 peds. heal cost - 14.08. 6A decay - 0.00
round x+8
when armor tt before hunt was 179.68, after the whole round it decayed only by 17.97 peds. heal cost - 19.65. 6A decay - 0.00

on late rounds I quit using 6A on Drones as this decay is sunk money. I prefer to use that money on faping as this is investment ... another ground for this decision is that adding 6A overprotects and causes extra, unneeded cost

do u see any anomaly here in this figures?

btw
I just calculated decay cost per hit
125 hits total
total armor decay was 1.33 ped
so decay per hit was: 1.064 pec


I remember when I calculated that before
I had fully repaired armor = 6a
Drone hit me 6 times, all 1 damage ... was over protected for sure
I checked armor - decay 22 pec
I checked 6a - decay 12 pec
so 34 pec decay on 6 hits only - thats crazy lol ...

TigerSkin said:

I have a case - I want to do Feffoid mission, 100s ...
Feff Outcast does 28 damage, 25% impact, 75% cold
and I tried that with Pixie on and Keshmek Slo ... a week ago ..
made it, but was hard ...
so gave it up as I did not have 4D ... to protect against cold ...
was actually looking for 4D afterwards, but switched to drones then ...

SO,

once I read this post I understood that I don't need 4D ...
I concluded that Goblin + 5b are enough ... both have 24 impact summarized protection, so as a result of every hit I will get just 4 damage from Feff outcast and that is going to be one of the most eco hunt on it

am I right?

Click to expand...

I'll look at your subsequent posts another day, but for the Feff question:

Assuming the numbers are right, ie. Feff Outcast does 14-28 dmg of which 25% is Impact, 75% Cold, then on a min hit you get 3.5 Impact, 10.5 Cold and on a max hit you get 7 Impact, 21 Cold.

So on the min hit Goblin+5B will protect against the 3.5 Impact with both the plate and the armour, reducing the hit by 3.5*2=7. Similarly on a max hit they'll both defend the 7 Impact, reducing the hit by 14.

So you should be taking hits of 7-14 in Goblin+5B.

Wiki suggests Feffs are 35%/65% though so it is probably better than that, more like 4-8 or 5-10.

Should be fine I guess. Like Coop said, against a mob that regenerates fast, Kesmek Slo is not really strong enough.

TigerSkin said:

btw
I just calculated decay cost per hit
125 hits total
total armor decay was 1.33 ped
so decay per hit was: 1.064 pec


I remember when I calculated that before
I had fully repaired armor = 6a
Drone hit me 6 times, all 1 damage ... was over protected for sure
I checked armor - decay 22 pec
I checked 6a - decay 12 pec
so 34 pec decay on 6 hits only - thats crazy lol ...

Click to expand...

Hmmm, max decay for paladin/shogun + 6a vs. drones should be 3.332 pec per hit. Maybe you paid the equipping charge as part of the 34 pec?

If you want to cut your fapping cost you could add 3b's to the shogun. It would add about .7 pec decay per hit but reduce the hits by 9.5, which works out to better eco than the vivo t1. Ofc fewer healing skills that way.

I just did test run on Drones
Killed enough to get 125 hits. Most hits I was getting was 1 damage. couple fo times around 3 and 4 from 03s

Paladin: Face, Arm, Harness, Shin
Shogun: Thigh, Glove, Foot
+6A


Total Armor tt before the run: 153.28 [max is 199.5]
Total Armor tt after the run: 152
decay = 1.28 PED

Total 6A tt before the run: 175 [max]
Total 6A tt after the run: 173
decay = 2 PED

decay per hit = (1.28+2)/125 = 2.624 pec
I apparently was wrong when calculating all on 6 hits

now need to try Feff with Goblin + 5b ... just to kill one ... to try

Maybe you paid the equipping charge as part of the 34 pec?

Click to expand...

what equipping charge? does it decay every time I put it on?

just killed 4 Feff Outcasts
either they were on no mood to kill me, or liked me ...
first hit me 7 times, secons 3 times, third, 3 times, fourth 7 times
never needed any heal during the killing process
minimum damage received was - 5.2
minimum damage received was - 15.5


Goblin + 5b


Total Armor tt before the run: 14.41
Total Armor tt after the run: 14.29
decay = 0.12 PED

Total 5B tt before the run: 217.7 [max]
Total 5B tt after the run: 217.6
decay = 0.1 PED

decay per hit = (1.28+2)/125 = 1.1 pec

pretty doable for me

TigerSkin said:

what equipping charge? does it decay every time I put it on?

Click to expand...

uinlimited armor - 0.01 ped each part each time you put it on .
limited armor - no costs .

Falagor

just did 100 Feff with Goblin + 5b
that was one of the most eco hunt I ever had

N00b's Goblin sga upgrade experiment,

Tested decay with the known method, did several parts, value's where the same

full 12 dmg impact absorb (Ambu's)

No enhancer 0.820pec/hit

Defence 0.870pec/hit 6.01% increase decay

Durability 0.819pec/hit this is a joke right


At a rate of 1800 hits before Defence enhancer dies that ads 0.055pec/hit to the cost

total of 0.925pec/hit

Compared to other stats of amour this is a bad result,

PROJECT TERMINATED

N00b said:

N00b's Goblin sga upgrade experiment,

Tested decay with the known method, did several parts, value's where the same

full 12 dmg impact absorb (Ambu's)

No enhancer 0.820pec/hit

Defence 0.870pec/hit 6.01% increase decay

Durability 0.819pec/hit this is a joke right


At a rate of 1800 hits before Defence enhancer dies that ads 0.055pec/hit to the cost

total of 0.925pec/hit

Compared to other stats of amour this is a bad result,

PROJECT TERMINATED

Click to expand...

Is it confirmed that armor enhancer increase decay of armor ?

If yes , what is decay increase ?