FYI: "Knowing when it will drop"

Poor Hulk

This has been going on for years and its not just rare items this happens with but also looted materials (ie if your hunting tide claw it will be bone in meat and the shell things). The whole 45 min timer thing was from cyrene last year maybe a year before when high mu materials like the targeting chip on scout bots would drop after x amount of time.

This was abused quite alot of cyrene because people used to have a selection of mobs they used to run around collecting all this high mu materials and generally were hunting 24/7 because they had more then 1 mob to hunt for mu. I think cyrene changed this recently but i havent really been hunting lately.

shaun

dobrinocb said:

Poor Hulk

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If you say so

Funny to see how people who know about that dont say anything else, just blame others. However, i dont care Made thread, to let others (who dont know yet) know and maybe to make MA change it so its not posible to track when next will drop.

Good Luck, haters!

H

Cerberis said:

If you say so

Funny to see how people who know about that dont say anything else, just blame others. However, i dont care Made thread, to let others (who dont know yet) know and maybe to make MA change it so its not posible to track when next will drop.

Good Luck, haters!

H

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I think this has been discussed before in a loot theory thread. I saved the links at that time, but for some reason they do not work anymore for me. Maybe for others will work. Here are the links :
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Secrets-of-Entropia-Universe-1st-Loot-system
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...calculation-server-creates-quot-Dynamics-quot

On another note, I don't think it matters who raised the point, but it matters if the point is valid or not and to be honest if this is true I think is demotivating for a lot of players to suspect that is not their skills and knowledge that counts, but rather some technical information about server reset or loot timings implemented in the software.

I hope this is not true
Regards,
III Dusk MMM

Just thought I would give my point of view of someone who plays on rocktropia mostly and plays during off peaks hours. I get a large selection of mobs not being hunted and know how to bounce around perfectly after playing here for years. Can time waves withing 2-3 minutes. Its much easier to get the timings when no one else is playing. I am not a fan of the waves at all but thankfully I can just move on to the next mob and bounce around and come back when I know the wave begins again.

I dont know if this can be flaged as a bug or if it should belong to the bug report section.

This never was sacred knowleadge saying some materials come in waves.

Saying server refresh every XX static minutes is wrong but server/loot eventually refresh at some point, waves doesnt necesarly come right when the server has refresh nor right by the end of the current server "temperature".

One has to ask himself what he grinds for, Items, Rare drops a particular kind of oil or components, if one wants to shoot 1 mob each 10minutes because he thinks he would be more efficient that way who are we to try to screw his plans? he might miss it being lazy or smartass?
Thats also dumb to keep droping bomb for exemple amped if you feel the ground is empty just as much as shooting non stop regardless of the loot income you have (not everyone will agree here).

Although this sound unfair, if one can study the tendancy and come up with something that works it sound right to clap your hands for him doesnt it? Why didnt you do it yourself too in the first place.. (one should not bring up exploit because it is not a bug imo)
There is no love in the fast lane..


What i'd consider wrong:
If one can provide information and prove they always spawn at the same place like boss would in the old hive then considering changing this may be wise, variable are a must knowing how many give it a shot it cant be for the one who figured it out only. Timers are just not always the exact same.

Rare loot should ALWAYS appear regardless of you carrying another of that item in inventory, this is a coding failure i will and thats the only thing i will consider a bug.



I am not going to judge the thread starter publicly
BUT
I really see no point for this thread but maybe digging for informations cause i dont think anything will be changed here unless you prove that you figured the system out

Cerberis said:

Made thread, to let others (who dont know yet) know and maybe to make MA change it so its not posible to track when next will drop.

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Do you believe its best to go out hunting in the dark, no entropia life tracker information?
I do not believe you are that kind of unaware and unprepared person.

Explain that statement because with these tools, those who figured anything in the first place will still have the same mind that lead them to surf on waves.

Konvicted said:

...Thats also dumb to keep droping bomb for exemple amped if you feel the ground is empty...

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Point is that some player (usually new) will not know what to do, while people who know about "waves" will go afk few minutes and come back for a wave to take loot and go afk again. That is not fair.
Btw - how it could look from outside when we all hunting and getting nothing, then you say "loot refresh is coming" and everyone starting to global. That just show that some people can get unfair advantage against others. Same with mushrooms, same with other loot... same with best drops of items in first minutes of events and so...

Konvicted said:

One has to ask himself what he grinds for, Items, Rare drops a particular kind of oil or components, if one wants to shoot 1 mob each 10minutes because he thinks he would be more efficient that way who are we to try to screw his plans? he might miss it being lazy or smartass?
Thats also dumb to keep droping bomb for exemple amped if you feel the ground is empty just as much as shooting non stop regardless of the loot income you have (not everyone will agree here).

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This is exactly what is most annoying, not everyone is able to sit in front of the computer for hours each day, usually people that deposit and help the game will play 1-3h a day, but with current system it's very likely that you'll hit a dry period day after day if you play just 1-3 hours and at the end of the month you'll just fell is not worth it anymore.

You should have same chances to loot something nice no matter when you play.

Cerberis said:

Btw - how it could look from outside when we all hunting and getting nothing, then you say "loot refresh is coming" and everyone starting to global. That just show that some people can get unfair advantage against others. Same with mushrooms, same with other loot... same with best drops of items in first minutes of events and so...

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I havent figured anything out yet, but i instinctively known that it was about time to switch, matter of fact talking less had me shooting more and it felt just about the right time to switch back to swirls.

(this was a moment in the hive when loot was dry then i said "loot refresh is coming" in my own word based on the fact i knew what was being shot all around the place, nothing was shining out of any brood, then hulk got a global and i did shortly after, loot wasnt so great afterward, but it was that particular time of loot picking up i felt, unfortunaltely not for long.)


All about inside feeling, instinct, maybe i started to get on track..

With the interval drop system the interval is an exact number, without any randomness whatsoever. Everyone's free to have a different opinion however. In fact u most welcome to do so, 'cause ingame we're in fact all rivals anyway.

If seriously, the reasons why loot graph looks like it does is pretty simple to explain:

1. The interval opens up the loot, if there's no mobs looted at this exact moment it obviously can't drop. There's periods when there's no hunters in the spawn for hours.
2. Now and then there's an additional drop (added manually, most often 10-15 min after the 1st one)
3. Last but not least the timer interval value itself can be adjusted (hasn't happened for over a month now).

The 2nd one is most interesting by the way. Without it the graph would display a flat zero at the beginning, a dead giveaway. Who said they're not watching...?


Now, one could argue that the primitive loot algorithm is something prehistoric, that MA can't/is not able to change.
Well, i don't think so. Look at the "timer item" system, it was added to the platform much later. Now, if you are able to add a whole new subsystem you are free to choose the loot algorithm it will use also.

i'm thinking close this thread already or open a new loot theory thread, cheers

Very true, the rate at which some mobs global can be gauged like this also. Meaning once you see 2 global's on CERTAIN mobs you know it will be around 30 + minutes for the next window on that mob.

combo22 said:

You should have same chances to loot something nice no matter when you play.

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So true.

Trolls as usual cant see or apreciate its a valid point and a clear opening for abuse and entertaining a system that dont apreciate the hardcore players. Best as usual is to try and abuse the system and dont play for long periods of time.

Its as most obvious on small TT rares and if youre shootibg long days it becomes painfully obvious what parts to not shoot (or mine or craft).

Its a flawed system that encourages the abusers and hurts the players that just "plays" the game. The conspiracy theory in me says the ones that denies it are abusers or just flavoured with hate for the OP.


//Linz

Fifth said:

Now, one could argue that the primitive loot algorithm is something prehistoric, that MA can't/is not able to change.
Well, i don't think so. Look at the "timer item" system, it was added to the platform much later. Now, if you are able to add a whole new subsystem you are free to choose the loot algorithm it will use also.

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what do you mean with "timer item" system?

its not that easy

Most are not able to see more as 1 cause and yes, then you will not find any logic

i stole some basics from another player in this and seen further how it works. Offcourse no proof but whatever, take it or leave it.


Its not 1 thing, theres at least 2 entities

Theres a tt server and a loot server. The tt server determines how much loot you will receive in tt value, the loot server determines what will drop.

For the more valueble items theres a cap in game, there will never drop more loot as that cap. The cap is the ammount of an item in game, no matter where it is.

The loot server makes a calculation based on where the stuff is and calculates how much stuff can drop after calculation. After the reset of the loot server it will drop.

the loot server resets every 45 minutes and starts counting from server start, and doesnt stop till server down. The system wants to drop stuff soon so in the first 10 minutes after a reset the CHANCE of that drop is bigger.

There must offcourse be enough tt value from tt server to cover the drop. And if nothing of the item or material is tted or filled up or used nothing will drop.

So a trader with big money can buy up all stuff and raise prices that way. shit will not drop if cap is reached.

Its just 2 things that are making it this easy. Its the steady 45 minute reset and the caps.

Thats all.

Magnus Mag said:

what do you mean with "timer item" system?

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He thinks its newly implemented but its just rare messages in all chat that is added combined with low TT items that are pretty common and marked as rare that makes it obvious for all to see the cycles. Most obvious it became on migration with eomons that all 1 ped guns and eomon DNA dropped in a short wave combined with most large hofs.

Very poor programming since all rares should have same chances during all periods of time, what happens when its like this is that the "smart" players abuse this system and I could give you many examples of that.......

//Linz

the thread works as intended, give more theories !

krogfan said:

He thinks its newly implemented but its just rare messages in all chat that is added combined with low TT items that are pretty common and marked as rare that makes it obvious for all to see the cycles. Most obvious it became on migration with eomons that all 1 ped guns and eomon DNA dropped in a short wave combined with most large hofs.

Very poor programming since all rares should have same chances during all periods of time, what happens when its like this is that the "smart" players abuse this system and I could give you many examples of that.......

//Linz

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so with "timer item" he means what this thread is about? thought he ment sth else...

sostoned said:

Most are not able to see more as 1 cause and yes, then you will not find any logic

i stole some basics from another player in this and seen further how it works. Offcourse no proof but whatever, take it or leave it.


Its not 1 thing, theres at least 2 entities

Theres a tt server and a loot server. The tt server determines how much loot you will receive in tt value, the loot server determines what will drop.

For the more valueble items theres a cap in game, there will never drop more loot as that cap. The cap is the ammount of an item in game, no matter where it is.

The loot server makes a calculation based on where the stuff is and calculates how much stuff can drop after calculation. After the reset of the loot server it will drop.

the loot server resets every 45 minutes and starts counting from server start, and doesnt stop till server down. The system wants to drop stuff soon so in the first 10 minutes after a reset the CHANCE of that drop is bigger.

There must offcourse be enough tt value from tt server to cover the drop. And if nothing of the item or material is tted or filled up or used nothing will drop.

So a trader with big money can buy up all stuff and raise prices that way. shit will not drop if cap is reached.

Its just 2 things that are making it this easy. Its the steady 45 minute reset and the caps.

Thats all.

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yes, i agree...i am pretty sure it works this way or very close to it..

this is why we see:
-"item loot" waves (after item server loottick)
-"ped loot" waves (after ped server loottick)

-lots of items dropping at beginning at event because:
1. lots of items got consumed until last event and lots available to drop (perhaps item otherwise in rar or difficult or not popular to hunt mob)
after all the available loot dropped it only drops again if L item is consumed so very rare
2. MA decided to raise the cap of certain items like jaguar parts or sth.

-when you hutn for certain mu item it is better to stop after drop so that lootpool can refill either because something got "recycled" into pool or "created" into pool..
mushrooms get looted almost instantly but on not so popular stuff waiting a day can give you several in the beginning...if you know what to expect knowing when to stop will highly boost your mu...(or looking at what activity is going on ingame)

so waiting and "sniping" mu with low cost gives best mu return..it should be MAs interest to change this because it means less cycle..

combo22 said:

This is exactly what is most annoying, not everyone is able to sit in front of the computer for hours each day, usually people that deposit and help the game will play 1-3h a day, but with current system it's very likely that you'll hit a dry period day after day if you play just 1-3 hours and at the end of the month you'll just fell is not worth it anymore.

You should have same chances to loot something nice no matter when you play.

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krogfan said:

Trolls as usual cant see or apreciate its a valid point and a clear opening for abuse and entertaining a system that dont apreciate the hardcore players. Best as usual is to try and abuse the system and dont play for long periods of time.

Its as most obvious on small TT rares and if youre shootibg long days it becomes painfully obvious what parts to not shoot (or mine or craft).

Its a flawed system that encourages the abusers and hurts the players that just "plays" the game. The conspiracy theory in me says the ones that denies it are abusers or just flavoured with hate for the OP.


//Linz

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There it is again for those missing the big picture here. And yes MA, it would be in your best interest to fix this in case you still haven't connected the dots.

...........................

combo22 said:

This is exactly what is most annoying, not everyone is able to sit in front of the computer for hours each day, usually people that deposit and help the game will play 1-3h a day, but with current system it's very likely that you'll hit a dry period day after day if you play just 1-3 hours and at the end of the month you'll just feel is not worth it anymore.

You should have same chances to loot something nice no matter when you play.

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this is one the primary reasons why i find it harder and harder to spend any time at all in EU. i dont have a ton of time per day, maybe 1-2 hours to play on average. therefore i have never looted anything really decent despite consistent play since SGA

also MAs refusal to have any involvement in the game(manipulators/scammers paradise) and creeping platform development makes it clear they care nothing for the player base

Magnus Mag said:

so with "timer item" he means what this thread is about?

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The term is somewhat obscure, sry for that. It's the nature of forums that you can't elaborate all those endless details.
Well, it was meant to describe primarily mushroom drops, which has been an ideal test ground.
Why?
Because only 1 item drops each cycle, but there is no cap otherwise. This quarantees there is no omissions, no cycles without drop. In this case the system has been simplified down to the limit, it's extremely simple and works with a 100% predictability like a clockwork.

Contrary to the general belief the rare loot messages don't really make it much easier. You can't rely on the messages because a "silent drop" is always possible. Luckily there's no need to rely on the messages. The spawn in the Cyclops Cave is very small, if all hunters in the spawn are working together (which has been the case for a sufficiently long periods of time) you have a total control over the process and all the data to make solid conclusions.


Now, i admit, it's possible that the loot system used for mushrooms is not a new subsystem but rather an instance of the same old loot mechanism that has been in the game since beginning.

The fact that it's interval was set to 30 mins for a pretty long time (few months ago) seemed to point to a separate subsystem, something not connected to the global 45 min loot cycles. Then again, there's other ways to explain this discrepancy.
​

OK, suppose if it is in fact the same old loot system. Well, then we have a good news and a bad news.
Good news: we have a well documented insight into inner workings of the loot system in general.
Bad news: the hopes to get a more sophisticated loot system in the future just got smaller...

Fifth said:

Now, i admit, it's possible that the loot system used for mushrooms is not a new subsystem but rather an instance of the same old loot mechanism that has been in the game since beginning.

The fact that it's interval was set to 30 mins for a pretty long time (few months ago) seemed to point to a separate subsystem, something not connected to the global 45 min loot cycles. Then again, there's other ways to explain this discrepancy.
​

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ah, thank you for explaining me what you meant..
yea the term " new subsystem" confused me..

the fact that it had a different tick of 30 mins doesn't seem to be a new system to me, seems like same system just used with different tick and slightly modified..

the question is how could it be changed for the better..i think it is not that trivial

Personal loot pool is the fix

Same as usual, some people "bending the system" and gaining advantage, others that cant get that advantage complain, MA does shit in reasonable time, and when the fix comes, it'll fuck both sides so both stfu.


PS: I dont time mushroms or whatever, you can check my droprate on shroms on tracker or even my twitch page

I agree with manique, I just play the game for some fun. What kinda sucks is that in the 10 or so years ive been playing now, a 1500 ped argo is still my all time best, and that was in 05, lol... But I have hunted in the past on the same mob for hours a day, for months at a time, and never got their rare drops, even at highest maturities.

I am just too lazy to time stuff out, sit and wait for cycle to begin again. Just like the carabok hides when I was doing the missions on carabok, they would ddrop real fast for about 5 min, about 10 min of slow drops, then stop for 45 min. but i just kept shooting,

Despite my avatar being born to feed the loot pool theory's, I still do alright since 2010,