A Strange Game. The Only Winning Move is Not to Play

Its really not hard to keep some spreadsheets. it takes 2 minutes at the end of a hunt

True! It's easy to log/ track your returns.
I'm doing a test on how big a run should be on Hadraada (Arkadia). I'm nearing the end at how many hunts I thought I should do, and I think I can savely say that it doesn't matter if you hunt 1x 200 kills or 20x 10 kills.
My skills are about the same as KullPX I think. One Hadraada costs me ~0,85 PED. Basicly I could say that, when I'm short on time, I can hunt daily 10 Hadraada. That's 8,5PED spend per day, 59,5PED per week, 3094PED per year. My returns average ~94%. That makes ~200PEDs down the drain if I'de hunt 10 Hadraada every day for a year.

Make your own log and see if you like it and see what information you'll get.
 
deactivated
 
Last edited:
deactivated
 
Last edited:
Strange that thread came from someone I consider "experienced player" in this forum.
Sometimes maybe I have some thoughts a bit close to yours but when I see things not going well I'm changing immediately what I'm doing.
Sweating - Swhunting is never "out of the picture" till sinewave change to positive again for example.
Maybe for you it is time for a change Go to another planet for a while.
Do some newbie things again or come to RT to see how low budget players can make it much easier ;)
Merry Christmas and keep playing!
There are good things to come yet for you, i'm sure
 
...

I think I can savely say that it doesn't matter if you hunt 1x 200 kills or 20x 10 kills.

...

I haven't been a heavy player since 2013, but i can say that still there are waves. They're not a myth.

The EP clicking spam and global/hof/ath for everything makes it harder to discern what's going on just by reading the global chat like you could in the past. When I started playing you could watch globals for half an hour or so and then just keep an eye on what was going on, and there would be obvious times to hunt, mine, or craft.

For instance in hunting:

There are times when skill gains are good but loot and damage vary and mostly seem bad, you wonder if your gun is broken/connection is bad/whatever.

There are times when damage is good (can't miss, crit streaks of 2, 3, 4 in a row) but skill gains are less common and loot is still lean.

Then there are times where you're not particularly skilling a lot and your damage varied, but loot comes in nicely and you pull ahead well into TT profit.

The effect is less pronounced now, it used to be really obvious, and the "waves" lasted a lot longer. But this is the premise of the long run and if you are makings 10 mob runs, you can miss the loot wave for a large number of those very short sessions in a row, and start to feel like you really are cursed.

So, of course it's dynamic and things can swing both ways, but the 200 x 1 kill is more likely to carry you through several "waves" and lean further towards average returns in all areas than the 20 x 10.

YMMV, but the premise is definitely real. And while things may have been smoothed out a bit, it's pretty obvious during a long run which way things are going at a given time once you start to watch for it.
 
I wouldnt call losing a massive amount of ped in a short period of time being greedy on my part. So I am assuming your talking about the game?

If I lost a huge chunk of ped in a very short time, it is greedy of me to try and hunt a mob that can give it back??? Is it really greedy of us to think we will get 90% also?

Greedy in the sense that if you saw in the global messages, that someone take a big jackpot, you should not run to the same place and try to do the same. In 99.9% of cases, you'll lose, because the jackpot is already taken...
 
Sound Logic expanded version.

QFT here, and in fact I'm going to break it down further.. so get ready for Ben Coyote's wall of text (iin the form of a 30 meter high tsunami of Ino..L:ets start off with this series of comments and I'll break it down..

if you keep loosing a significant amount, reconsider from scratch your play style.
You just have to be doing something wrong..

This is propably the first bit of information that needs to be examined.. and in fact, like he said, changing your gameplay style might not hurt.. In fact changing only a few things actually might help you save some ped...For example.. in the next comment that this poster makes it makes perfect sense..

There are some very good "blogs"here on forum, where people show how to play sucesuflly on low budget.

Ah reading.. Something the modern gamer doesn't do al lot.. but they should. Reading these bits of information can actually help you play better, and even smrter.. A famous Cartoon Duck once said to "Work Smarter and not harder and this duck was a billionaire.

Like the poster sid, reading and gaining information is important, and having an open mind and learning is the key.. But sadly a lot of players who come into this game are either sadly miinformed or they don't read.. or a bit of both.. Blogs and Posts (like these in this thread) are very helpful and can be infightfult.. So above all read.. It'll help you understand the game better, and if you know someone who is skilled and is a friend of yours have them mentor you.. or better yet go look for a mentor.. (And if you don't like them, try another, who might, and keep going until you find one who does help you with the information.. that's what the Mentoring program is all about.)

I would probably recommend starting from low level again, so you learn how to play.

My mother said it best, sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards and starting aagain from a low level is a good option.. But if you ahve sunk a lot of peds into the game the best option is to learn from your mistakes and ramify them..

For example, you lost a lot of ped and If it were the case then it could be that you had low evade.. you ignored perhaps some ofo the most boring work out thee, and that is of course seeating.. without that evade, you might as well hand MA your Ped card.. So if you want to be the best evader in game, sweat, and sweat like the win.. and when you want, go out and take a wlk around.. and find those stones fruit and sung..(After all they make you money too, especially the fruit..


Biggest mistake people are doing is that they go and kill something they can barely kill.

This is perhaps the biggest mistake that people make.. They think they can take on an Atrox with an Opalo alone.. or that they can take on an Oratan or an Argo with the same weapon..
Sometimes doing a bit of reasearch and a bit of information gathing can help you learn to do things differntly..

Initially when I was a player, starting out young and fresh, I actually just did what the other players did, I just shoot and killed and looted, and in a way I was sort of a drone.. just shoot kill loot, over and over aiain.. I didn't pay attention to details like counting your shots or looking at the loot and cross comparing it to what you put out.. That right there is key to all this.. It's what I call "Knowing how to hunt within a budget and means.." If you think you can take a mob, do the research and then use the math and figure it out, (and if you hate math, have someone help you.. After all having someone who has information and knowledge of how this game works (And hence back to the mentoring system again) might mean the differnce between only losing a few pec versus losing a few if not tens or hundreds of ped.. So yes Research and information are the key, and what better way to do this than to read..(Refer back to my first port of this post..

The fact you can kill something, does not mean you should hunt it ;)

I tend to agree with this person and in fact this logic is very sound.. IN fact while many people go out and hunt a specific mob, doesn't mean you should go out and do it as well. In fact I use a method that I like to call "Rotating your mobs"

In short thake all the mobs you can kill and that you can acutally do so without an issue, and look for the good loot using the information you know and have.. If the loot is bad, switch to a differnt mob and try agsin.. Even on Arkadia the startnig player has 7 options and all are reasonable provided they have the skills to shoot a gun (and yes stay away from Melee weapons. They'll kill your ped card faster than most..only use a TT Blade that is in fact able to handle the mob if you run out of ammo and the mob doesn't have much life and is a slow regen speed. Otherside if all that fails do one of two things.. Take off your armor and let it kill you, or run.. Your call on that one..

Then small runs is another common mistake.. Bigger the mob , bigger the bankroll you need.

How true this is, and in fact you gotta do the research.. Goin gout on any 20 ped run on A mob that requires 200 ped is downright stupid.. if not ignorant.. This is where Researching your mobs like what you can and can not take and how much it'll cost for each, will be the real issue ehre. Do the research, Go look at the mob on Entropedia and do the math.. (and yes there is a set formula many skilled players know.. and in fact some of us get down to knowing how much each shot will be.. and how many shots it will take (or should take) to kill a mob.. Learn the system and you won't go wrong.. Ignore it? And well Hand MA your ped card..

[/QUOTE]Stay away from crafting! ;)[/QUOTE]

This one is a mixed bag, and in fact the one type of crafting i would reccommend to stay away from is in fact Explosives crafting.. Anyone who does that one, is what David Harnum said.. They're the sucker born every minute.. (And believe me I have a pharse I've coined.. and that phrase is "Explosive monkeys"

Why this phrase? These people aren't too bright when it comes crafting, and in fact with skills you have to have the skills to back you up, without those skills then you ARE handing MA your ped card..

Want a smarter way? Invest into RK-5's an Welding wire, Get on a mother ship and repair.. Get those skills up and have fun on board a ship.. Sure it's right up there in sweating when it cmes to boredom, but if you want your skills to improve you hae to do something, and repairing a motehr ship is one of the petter options.. Once you reach a certain level and you feel comfortable.. Craft anything BUT explosives.. (Textures are a nice little start off and then move up to Electronics, Metal even Components.. In short, pick a path and stick with it..

But as for Explosives I would say no.. other than that, after you repair and get a lot of skill, then if you want, take a small chance and do a run, see if you like it or not, after all sSome hunters and miners were never meant to be crafters, and some crafters were meant to be hunters or miners..

But agian Player smarter not harder.. Enoufh said..


Do not TT stuff like idiot.

Now this is why he's intelligent After all if you TT stuff to the Trade terminal (or what i like to call "The Blue Bin of Death), then you're only going to get 100%, no markup.. after all yo might have something someone else needs and some folks will pay handsome money for it.. others might just want to byp you out of the ped.. but then you have to pick and choose who you trade with.. that's why channels like Arktrade and Caly trade and all the planetary trade channels are important.. you might find a good deal to sell an item.. or buy one that you want and need, that plus it's a good way to socialize.. and to talk to other players.. If you are anti-social, well then my advce is get out of the game and play something else.. (and if you get bored, take some time off.. and rethink your strategies, modify them if need to, and above all work within the budge you set up.. Otherwise, have fun "Not playing Cause tis isn't a strange game.. You amke it strange because of the habits you use, Modfiy your habits and stick to a game plan.. Usually that is the best way to do it.


Track your returns and share with us ;)

This is perhaps the best example of logic yet.. After all some people are like Ebenneezer Scrooge and want to keep the money to themselves, others are like Andrew Carneige, and learn to run an economy.. and people then wonder why the economy is so horrible? it's the greedy Scrooges of the world who are unreasoable.. Those who are Andrew Caarneige types usually keep the economy of a planet or planets running like a well oiled machine..

In short, track your trurns yes, but then be reasonable.. if you think the price is too low? Find another buyer and try again. and again and again keep trying.. and in the mean time stockpile what isn't being used.. you one day might find a use (Now if someoen has Cap 4 -Desert BP's I'll take your LEgfur and Any metal res you got.. And then you'd see what you get back in return.. a full TT Gun that you can enjoy until it breaks.. But that's besides the point..

IN shrot, spread the wealth around, don't be greedy and above all have fun..

*Wipes Forehead* :eyecrazy: Man I should talk more often like this..

(Sgt) Benjamin Ben Coyote, IFN Marines
a.k.a."The Blind Sniper" (and ) "His_Dog_Spot"
 
I'll just add a little twist to this thread.

To all the people that KNOW how to play this game(and are giving some good advice in this thread), its better if you keep the info to yourself. Teaching more people how to play reduces your possible profit :D All in all, there is no chance for everyone to profit because the game would die.

Just sayin... :silly2:
 
I'll just add a little twist to this thread.

To all the people that KNOW how to play this game(and are giving some good advice in this thread), its better if you keep the info to yourself. Teaching more people how to play reduces your possible profit :D All in all, there is no chance for everyone to profit because the game would die.

Just sayin... :silly2:

And I think you're wrong.
The economy should not be based on disaffected idiots (this is not an personal insult, but a partial description of the situation). We lived fine without any EP III-IV BP's (for example), or something similar, and if someone stop click these BP's, stop doing other wrong moves, it would be good for all.

Added: I'll tell to OP more about online time. It is enough to give the game 2-4 hours of your time a day. If 2 hours for you is too much - do not play. My active playing time (not the time when avatar just online) is about 3-4 hours per day.
 
Last edited:
True! It's easy to log/ track your returns.
I'm doing a test on how big a run should be on Hadraada (Arkadia). I'm nearing the end at how many hunts I thought I should do, and I think I can savely say that it doesn't matter if you hunt 1x 200 kills or 20x 10 kills.
My skills are about the same as KullPX I think. One Hadraada costs me ~0,85 PED. Basicly I could say that, when I'm short on time, I can hunt daily 10 Hadraada. That's 8,5PED spend per day, 59,5PED per week, 3094PED per year. My returns average ~94%. That makes ~200PEDs down the drain if I'de hunt 10 Hadraada every day for a year.

Make your own log and see if you like it and see what information you'll get.


Matching average loot to mob HP cost seems to get harder with larger HP mob than with smaller. So i would not take the same approach with larger hp mob where i think the game changes and you should begin chasing MU rather than average tt loot (there are low hp mu mob of course as well).

So in short i would say the cost to kill model applies less exclusively to larger HP mob but still applies only in the context that it has to be matched with average MU rather than tt (and other costs). ?
 
Matching average loot to mob HP cost seems to get harder with larger HP mob than with smaller. So i would not take the same approach with larger hp mob where i think the game changes and you should begin chasing MU rather than average tt loot (there are low hp mu mob of course as well).

So in short i would say the cost to kill model applies less exclusively to larger HP mob but still applies only in the context that it has to be matched with average MU rather than tt (and other costs). ?

From this I conclude that you have just not enough money to hunt large mobs. Kill 10000 small mobs and calculate return. Then kill 10000 large mobs... you cannot?!!! Stop killing them or take 5-10 friends in team to increase your dps/turnover/PED card limit. Then calculate results.
 
From this I conclude that you have just not enough money to hunt large mobs. Kill 10000 small mobs and calculate return. Then kill 10000 large mobs... you cannot?!!! Stop killing them or take 5-10 friends in team to increase your dps/turnover/PED card limit. Then calculate results.

Your conclusions are as premature as your answer to mine is wet dribble in this case. Considering you might actually have a few gems, is there any chance you could do some back reading, establish where i am already (seeing as you want to address me) and offer something more relevant to what i suggested and asked.
 
Last edited:
deactivated
 
Last edited:
Kull, bro I know your pain.

The game has became into a grinding slavery mechanic. Do that and you may sustain.
Lets talk the rest in PM ... =)
 
IMO the population falls into 3 categories.

The "newbies", who are still enchanted by the idea of RCE, every day is an adventure for them. They are happy to grind small mobs, maybe do some sweating, or just goof around and make friends. Usually a younger crowd.

The "casuals". Most of them are veterans of "Project Entropia". They love the game, but miss the old days. They stick around for the community, play/gamble occasionally especially during events, active more on forums than in game, hoping that some day EU will achieve greatness or become less of a one-dimensional grind.

The "grinders". Usually very active on the tracker. These are the ones who have accepted "grindtropia" for what it is and/or accepted that they are too invested/addicted to ever play a different game. They will continue to cycle PEDs and to adapt to any changes in EU forever, or until MA pisses them off one too many times :cool:

If you don't fall into one of these 3 categories (or some combination of the 3), you have most likely quit EU altogether, or you will very soon :laugh:

Just my :twocents:
 
The Trick to playing smarter and not harder..

IMO the population falls into 3 categories.

The "newbies", who are still enchanted by the idea of RCE, every day is an adventure for them. They are happy to grind small mobs, maybe do some sweating, or just goof around and make friends. Usually a younger crowd.

The "casuals". Most of them are veterans of "Project Entropia". They love the game, but miss the old days. They stick around for the community, play/gamble occasionally especially during events, active more on forums than in game, hoping that some day EU will achieve greatness or become less of a one-dimensional grind.

The "grinders". Usually very active on the tracker. These are the ones who have accepted "grindtropia" for what it is and/or accepted that they are too invested/addicted to ever play a different game. They will continue to cycle PEDs and to adapt to any changes in EU forever, or until MA pisses them off one too many times :cool:

If you don't fall into one of these 3 categories (or some combination of the 3), you have most likely quit EU altogether, or you will very soon :laugh:

Just my :twocents:

I think you got the right idea ZFI, the observations I have seen fits this profile pretty darn well and I guess if anything I fall into the "Casual" Category.

But then sometims you have or get an insight on what you should do and what you should not do..

My own attitude really is not to focus on the peds but rather on the skills.. After all a lot of folks forget one important aspect of the game, and that is in fact the skills..

Now a lot of people tend to forget that all but a few skills are in fact worth ped.. and that in itself is something to strive for..

Also this game is sort of like a bank investment, the more you do put in, the more you can get out, provided you play smarter and not harder..

But I'm not saying that everyone who does this method wins.. and some of us specializse in what skills we use..(and in my case, I tend to experiement with newer ideas.. Like the Pet Taming angle, or the tree cuting angle (After all you have to sit down and understand how the system works and what you are doing in order to be sure to get the most enjoyment out of this game..

Now for some folks the issue is that they focus too much solely on the peds, and forget the skills.. they want to be the guy or gal on the leader board and be in taht Hall of Fame, even if it is only for 24 hours, (and some want to get those ATH's and be on there and considered legends.. Me? I tend to look at the Leader board and then Ignore it.. that's my thoughts on the HOF board..

Now as for grnding it is a good idea to grind, but to do so in Moderation.. Set a goal, say like Kill 100 to 200 of a mob today for a mission run..Then washe, reinse repeat until you finish the misson (Sure this takes time, but then in the long run the end benefits and rewards of completing a mission is a sense of accoplishment. whether if it a hunting or mining missio0n, Also ZFI makes a good point.. Don't stick around on a planet too long, Move around the board and stop to think that all planets are viable (Even the ones you don't think have viability do.. The trick is knowing what sells and what doesn't..

But then also again this is a game where you ahve to have connecitons and sometimes us casusals can actually give you good hints and tips on who to look for.. (After all we do have a contact list that can be rather quite long (Imagine what it wouldbe like if it was just 80 players long.. you'd have to pick and choose who you want to keep and who you wanted to get rid of.. Now.. YOu got options with that Unlimited list of people you keep at your fingertips..

Also a final bit of advice from the Coyote.. Pace yourself.. the grinders I find out tend to burn themselves out faste rand are soemtiems mroe frustrated than the Casuals and the Inexperienced noobs.. I don't go on any majro runs that are thousands of peds, .. Also having a bit of market and exonomic savvy helps.. that combined with socialization actually will make the game more fun..

As a Glowing Note, My mother said this..

"There are no stupid questions to ask (and this is very true in Entropia Universe) The only questions that can and do set you up for failure are the ones that you never do ask.. (Maybe someone shoudl remind the newbies about this.. after all they can and do ask a lot of questions.. and by having some of the knowledge at your finger tips (like Entropedia) the success factor can be done, bust remember this though.. We're all paying the bandwidth in game, we're all paying the developers and that's where decay comesin..

Oh and as a final bit.. Be kind to your neighbors, If you are going to go afk and have a smart pohone or can download the Auction App, do so.. Saves a lotof us from paying the bandwdith in game while you stand there frozen in place by some sort of Hypnotic auction board.. (oh and go to the board when you need supplies and shop around.. You might get a better deal than what you see..)

After all that's half the fun of EU, trying to figure it out and enjoying it is the other half..

(Oh and Joshua, if you are ready, I'm ready for that chess game right about now.)

(Sgt) Benjamin Ben Coyote , IFN Marines
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper" and "His_Dog_Spot"
 
deactivated
 
Last edited:
IMO the population falls into 3 categories.

The "newbies", who are still enchanted by the idea of RCE, every day is an adventure for them. They are happy to grind small mobs, maybe do some sweating, or just goof around and make friends. Usually a younger crowd.

The "casuals". Most of them are veterans of "Project Entropia". They love the game, but miss the old days. They stick around for the community, play/gamble occasionally especially during events, active more on forums than in game, hoping that some day EU will achieve greatness or become less of a one-dimensional grind.

The "grinders". Usually very active on the tracker. These are the ones who have accepted "grindtropia" for what it is and/or accepted that they are too invested/addicted to ever play a different game. They will continue to cycle PEDs and to adapt to any changes in EU forever, or until MA pisses them off one too many times :cool:

If you don't fall into one of these 3 categories (or some combination of the 3), you have most likely quit EU altogether, or you will very soon :laugh:

Just my :twocents:


you forgot those that have figured out to profit in the game on many levels and in many different ways
 
cost to kill must be calculated - its more or less same with any eco/uneco weapon in short terms

check after a few mobs killed = how is your loot? if its like 60% or below, change to similar mob

list small-mid-big mobs of 5 each which you can kill ; start visiting 1 and if above rule applies, change to 2nd one, on 3rd or before, you may notice a balance in loot, or even a big one at first kill.

using mindforce or blades as finisher or main weapon time to time while hunting will bring more skills too.

different weapons bring diff. loots depending on lvl / hp of the mob

make tests, try different servers, and you will do better

Even after all tries, sometimes MA wont pay you :) that means all servers are in greedy mode, so either have some low skilling fun elsewhere or log off
 
After 3 years and a HUGE pile of peds I have finally figured this game out :yay:


If *the game played itself, it would break its self?

IF * you play for years and have deposited a HUGE pile of ped and never seen a decent loot, should you continue?

I agree, children shouldn't play this game.
 
you forgot those that have figured out to profit in the game on many levels and in many different ways

Sure. There are MS owners, people who do various services or do a lot of trading, etc. IMO most of these fall under "grinders", but not all of them. Those are still what I see as the 3 majorities. There will always be some minorities :laugh:
 
cost to kill must be calculated - its more or less same with any eco/uneco weapon in short terms

check after a few mobs killed = how is your loot? if its like 60% or below, change to similar mob

Normal return is 50-90% for single session (Maybe for someone less than 50%, but I've do not seen less than 50%). Globals are return, so in the long term your return would be about 90% TT.
This rule sounds slightly different: If loot is about 30-40% in short run (10-15 mobs killed) - try another mob.
If more than 50-60% - you can try killing more here and check return after 10-20 mobs again. If 70-80% - stay here and kill-kill-kill!

There are exception, like MM. You cannot change mob on MM (only MM Kerbs or Aras), so if you always lose - stop your kills!
 
To the OP. You are wrong, not everyone loses.


Rgds

Ace
 
But for some of us, the point of a game is to escape RL for a while, not deal with a more complicated version of it.

Dont want to sound rude, but you have about 999 million other games out there that will get that covered.
 
Dont want to sound rude, but you have about 999 million other games out there that will get that covered.

Nah, it's not rude, and I agree. I was just trying to support some of what others have said in that there are players (who can contribute to the economy) who don't necessarily want to have to sit down with a calculator, spreadsheet, and half a dozen websites open just to have some fun for a bit.

On the other hand, maybe the more casual players simply don't fit in to the ecosystem that MA is trying to develop.
 
On the other hand, maybe the more casual players simply don't fit in to the ecosystem that MA is trying to develop.

Yep. This is the conclusion I've come to. It explains why we haven't see any sort of marketing effort from them at all. How can you market a game when your target audience is either gamblers or grinders? "Come play Entropia, where you can gamble and grind your way to madness with our awesome Iron Missions and Mayhem events!". I don't think the ROI on a serious marketing campaign would be worth it.
 
... It explains why we haven't see any sort of marketing effort from them at all. How can you market a game when your target audience is either gamblers or grinders? ...

You aren't flooded with this?

mu6IEzn.png


I see this ad in several formats all over the web for the entire two months since I've been back in game, and reading these forums.

It's doubly ironic when reading the complaint threads and comments about "how could MA allow this" regarding the rocktropia pets. EU = boobs now.

Gamblers love boobs. Typical (statistics not stereotypes, sorry ladies) MMO grinders love boobs. EU presents: boobs.

Boobs bring them in and the TT sorts them out. I would love to see some numbers on growth of the player base from this campaign lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZPF
You aren't flooded with this?

mu6IEzn.png


I see this ad in several formats all over the web for the entire two months since I've been back in game, and reading these forums.

It's doubly ironic when reading the complaint threads and comments about "how could MA allow this" regarding the rocktropia pets. EU = boobs now.

Gamblers love boobs. Typical (statistics not stereotypes, sorry ladies) MMO grinders love boobs. EU presents: boobs.

Boobs bring them in and the TT sorts them out. I would love to see some numbers on growth of the player base from this campaign lol.

I was referring to "serious" marketing efforts. An expensive multi-media ad campaign like we see for all the big name MMOs.

But...
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never seen that before. You just made my day.

"Hardcore" indeed. :whip::money::naughty::handjob::yup:

Honestly. That advertisement makes me embarrassed to play EU.
 
Back
Top