22 Negative hunts in a Row, A Constructive Look at the Future of Entropia, Loot, Fun and Growth

No they said the AVERAGE would be 98. That means someone might have 97 someone might have 98 someone might have 99. Depending on choices they do.

They never guaranteed you to get 98% girtsn.



This whole idea of fixed 100% TT return is garbage in my opinion. It would kill the thrill of the game instantly.
 
I understand averages. My thinking was/is that having acquired higher than average looter skills and some of the best efficiency weapons and doing some of the highest turnovers over time I would be at least somewhere in the average zone. But even this is "dynamic".
Not asking for 100% tt return just for my efforts to reflect on it and MA to live up to its promises on critical things like this.
No they said the AVERAGE would be 98. That means someone might have 97 someone might have 98 someone might have 99. Depending on choices they do.
They never guaranteed you to get 98% girtsn.
This whole idea of fixed 100% TT return is garbage in my opinion. It would kill the thrill of the game instantly.
 
Now only you know ? after 22...only... what a joke.

Funny thing about this thread is no body comment this is an old stories, kind like tell and tell again and again, kind of friendly whining, and blah blah blah kind of stuffs I get in the past few years.

Why so worry? Just continue to deposit and contribute to the game like me. I am very sure that will help your love game. I deposit and never think of withdraw. That make you better right?

Why need more new players ? so that they will contribute too and you can contribute lesser?
 
Make EU Great Again!!!! Let People Get 20k Loot On Atrox!!!!!!


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Make EU Great Again!!!! Let People Get 20k Loot On Atrox!!!!!!


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

In the old days 20K Atrox was not uncommon - with Argo you could get decent returns 300-900 ped was not uncommon and not long after vu10 I saw a 9k Argo drop (iirc).
 
You. Can. Not. Profit. From. The. Game. Only. From. Other. Players.

Which means, since also the house needs to cover its cost to run, there will only ever be a minority of producers who profit from a majority of consumers.

The more recently introduced looter skills and efficiency parameter influence your statistical chances of loot quantity and quality depending on where you stand. The investment needed to lift yourself above the average is either decided upon or also derived dynamically depending on what the playerbase as a whole is willing to put in. It may be too much for many. If at lower levels even selling your loot for markup doesn't help, or finding buyers at all is too frustrating, then the problem of low retention will never go away. The ArMatrix line was meant to improve this but the lack of consideration for the outer planet partners with its introduction exacerbated the problem for those instead.

Creating a stable cyclical system out of all these interdependencies is a tall order indeed. In the real world, any development which is not sustainable is destined to perish. Still, even people who find themselves at the losing end of the stick continue to pay "gods" who do a terrible job of making the world "just" for them. They manage to keep this up by pressuring each other to believe. Does anyone see the parallels? Except, here we have a choice to determine our motivation freely and these may be quite varied. The skills to explore and understand them are not taught in marketing or business administration degree programs.
 
Lets objectively look at hunting and professions in general and ask ourselves what is acceptable? Obviously 96.21% is not even for a new character. To objectively look at Loot 2.0 lets take an extreme stance to look at the growth of the game. What if hunting was free? You always got 100% TT! MA wouldn't lose any money. Hear me out because this is how most games function. The profession itself isn't where people should be spending money. Money is spent on resto chips, guns, armor, plates, tiering, land deeds, shops, ships, rings etc etc....etc.... That is the price for playing the game! This is how all Free to play games that are successful work. The game is FREE!! The webshop and items is where you makes millions on players that are dying to log in and have fun. You establish a large player base and make money on people buying stuff to play. Which our webshop could use an overhaul on packs, armors, items etc.

Nah, that won't work.

You need the 95% tt return for a chance to win more than 100%.
That's the gambling aspect EU floats on.

You wont buy a lottery ticket if you will always get your money back. That would be useless.

And lets be honest, I think the majority of the playerbase loves the gambling aspect. The chance to win more then you spent.
Without this gambling aspect the game would have died long ago.
 
Nah, that won't work.

You need the 95% tt return for a chance to win more than 100%.
That's the gambling aspect EU floats on.

You wont buy a lottery ticket if you will always get your money back. That would be useless.

And lets be honest, I think the majority of the playerbase loves the gambling aspect. The chance to win more then you spent.
Without this gambling aspect the game would have died long ago.

Ummm comparing Entropia to gambling instead of a video game is not only odd but also wrong. I am not here to gamble and don't like gambling. (besides that is illegal right ) Most people who play video games aren't there to gamble they are there to progress. MMORPGs are about progression. That is what this game is about at it's core and what it's focus should be in order to draw in more people to enjoy "the game"

This is a video game and the core aspect of gameplay is building up an Uber character to enjoy the world of Entropia Universe. The building of this character should be more streamlined and possible without needing massive money just to complete missions and perform the basic activities in the game. We want people to get a chance to see what this game is about and actually reach 30 lvl and enjoy the game to stick around and then invest in better gear/land. This stream line gameplay comes from far better ways to cycle PED in each profession. PED just needs to last way way longer to give people a chance to really get immersed into an MMORPG.

I would love to see the game more about what it is meant for which is skilling and progression. Lets keep people in game doing that in this sandbox with the professions they want to advance their avatar with. Instead of going broke before they get started because of a long down period. Which is a problem. This game has bad marketing and bad turnover. So we get too few players starting to play and too many quitting. Both need to change.

End of the day we need significantly more players ( not gamblers ) Lets work on getting people here to play. Lets get gamers in here that help transform Entropia into the game it should be.

Hope MA has a tactical plan for doing of aggressively working on getting more people in the game and staying. If they don't then they need to get one fast and announce it. ASAP.

Like all gamers I would never play a video game to lose money. That isn't what gaming is about.

Time for this game to grow.
 
Last edited:
Hmm, lets not forget that
  • supposed ~40k (as it was an item trade) out of that came from one fen item which is not part of the daily grinding routine. And that 6 months out of this period had a tt return of 100% or so.
  • the below 2 periods are characterized by a tt return of ~95%
  • - (Sep 2016 to Feb 2018) or 1.5 years with -148k and one month in plus throughout
  • - just after restarting (Jan 2011 to Mar 2013) or 2.25 years with -146k and 6 months in plus throughout

Ofc we will forget, girtsn, we, the community, because, everyone will look an analyze through their eyes, their perspective, their expectation and also, like you say, their country's average salary, or their potential salary, their pay/time spent. This is because
- some people think the 90%+ tt is a myth, these people shoot 5 mobs a month/year and think they are hunters and this game is a casino;
- some people will be happy with 95%tt + when they have a lot of fun and spend little, or just gamble;
- some people will be happy with 96%tt when they are having some fun but some MU as well, chase the smart hunt/grind;
- some people will only be happy at 97%+ because they will make some profit from MU.
- some people will only be happy at 98% and some will only be happy at 100%+
Just as some are OK with 10 cents per hour while others are ok with 200$/hour.

It's all a matter of perspective and with years, fun goes away, it becomes just a business, a way of living or a part time job... if you are capable of course.

NO, I am not happy about my last 22 runs/days either. But my result might satisfy someone else, with cheaper gear.
- I have 94% tt,
- 2 positive dyas in past 22 days (79ped+ and 200ped+).
- 200k turnover.
- not enough MU to cover.

BUT, it's just a bad period that will pass, better days will come, better luck with MU etc. I won't judge the game by the last 22 days. Or a bad month. No one should. If you do, you already lost.
 
It's all a matter of perspective and with years, fun goes away, it becomes just a business, a way of living or a part time job... if you are capable of course.

NO, I am not happy about my last 22 runs/days either. But my result might satisfy someone else, with cheaper gear.
- I have 94% tt,
- 2 positive dyas in past 22 days (79ped+ and 200ped+).
- 200k turnover.
- not enough MU to cover.

BUT, it's just a bad period that will pass, better days will come, better luck with MU etc. I won't judge the game by the last 22 days. Or a bad month. No one should. If you do, you already lost.

It isn't a matter of perspective. This game is factually not growing. It factually has to high a turn over rate for not getting enough new gamers to play, then the players we do get they quit. It has been this way since I got here and long before. There have been some positive changes however a lot more work has to be done to increase the success of the game and gameplay.

2 positive days in the past 22 days is bad game design. This is a factual statement. It has nothing to do with perspective. It has to do with standards and you accepting bad game design. However bad game design doesn't grow Entropia.

The issue is the bad periods when there are just other games to play and when they happen players just go play those games instead of this one. I think you are missing the point of the thread some and talking about perspective when it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with a better game design and getting us to that point. Increasing the game play, fun and bringing in more players and keeping them.

Obviously as it is now is a failure however like all failure it just tells you what is wrong and what to work on.
 
Last edited:
Ummm comparing Entropia to gambling instead of a video game is not only odd but also wrong. I am not here to gamble and don't like gambling. (besides that is illegal right ) Most people who play video games aren't there to gamble they are there to progress. MMORPGs are about progression. That is what this game is about at it's core and what it's focus should be in order to draw in more people to enjoy "the game"

This is a video game and the core aspect of gameplay is building up an Uber character to enjoy the world of Entropia Universe. The building of this character should be more streamlined and possible without needing massive money just to complete missions and perform the basic activities in the game. We want people to get a chance to see what this game is about and actually reach 30 lvl and enjoy the game to stick around and then invest in better gear/land. This stream line gameplay comes from far better ways to cycle PED in each profession. PED just needs to last way way longer to give people a chance to really get immersed into an MMORPG.

I would love to see the game more about what it is meant for which is skilling and progression. Lets keep people in game doing that in this sandbox with the professions they want to advance their avatar with. Instead of going broke before they get started because of a long down period. Which is a problem. This game has bad marketing and bad turnover. So we get too few players starting to play and too many quitting. Both need to change.

End of the day we need significantly more players ( not gamblers ) Lets work on getting people here to play. Lets get gamers in here that help transform Entropia into the game it should be.

Hope MA has a tactical plan for doing of aggressively working on getting more people in the game and staying. If they don't then they need to get one fast and announce it. ASAP.

Like all gamers I would never play a video game to lose money. That isn't what gaming is about.

Time for this game to grow.

Please, don't be so naive.
You know damn well EU resembles a casino.
Sure, it's a bit more than just a casino, since the odds can somehow be influenced with the proper choices of slots and coins that you use, and the added MU system supplements the system.
But in the end it's just gambling.

Entropia is very much unlike any other video game. So don't treat it like any other video game.
If people like to play video games, they will play cool games, with cool visuals, cool story lines, cool controls etc.

Entropia is totally different and that's what makes it unique.
 
Please, don't be so naive.
You know damn well EU resembles a casino.
Sure, it's a bit more than just a casino, since the odds can somehow be influenced with the proper choices of slots and coins that you use, and the added MU system supplements the system.
But in the end it's just gambling.

Entropia is very much unlike any other video game. So don't treat it like any other video game.
If people like to play video games, they will play cool games, with cool visuals, cool story lines, cool controls etc.

Entropia is totally different and that's what makes it unique.

How many are actually aware to what extent the real world resembles a casino? Ponder the role of statistics in quantum mechanics, the wave function, entropy and adjacent subjects. To how many players did it ever occur that the name "Entropia" was chosen with something in mind? This is fascinating and should really lead people to want to study what everything we see and are is made of. Instead they focus on virtual progress and trinkets.
 
OP has a point in his post; realistically there should be consistency and a balance of up and down days generally not just a consistency of down days; but anyone who plays this casino for profit has forgotten the first rule - the house always wins.

Statistics and results are what people remember most; it doesn't matter how new or old you are in game, loot sucks since loot 2.0; for most players all loot contains these days is basically shrapnel.

Consider also the fall in MU of almost everything people care most about; including armours, weapons, chips, skills, the increases in NRF's when mining and changes to success rates for crafting as well as the removal of so many items used in crafting that has resulted in many high MU BP's becoming totally worthless.

That does not and will not inspire player retention or new players commencing the long journey that is Entropia, nor will it result in any positive feedback through word of mouth advertising. Less people playing means less loot in the pool.

MA consistently ignores feedback from the playerbase and has pissed off a large portion of the game population to the point of quitting or selling out most stuff they possess. Look at the Camera debacle and how MA addressed the playerbase's feedback - make a few half hearted alterations to shut up some people and ignore the rest.

In all sincerity I cannot remember last time I had any kind of decent run (is a lot more that 22 consistent losses) and its been years since I could say I achieved profit once over a week. I hunt almost daily and craft most weeks; my last global hunting was 1 month ago and crafting was nearly 2 years ago! I suspect that I am not alone as according to tracker today 3556 Hunters, 1262 Mining and 1135 Crafters were tracked over the last 30 days; given most people follow more than 1 discipline that's a hell of a reduction of the playerbase and a long fall since 2009/2010 when hunting was between 12-15k and MA could boast 1M accounts.

Mindark needs to change its attitude toward the playerbase by remembering that customer satisfaction is what will keep people playing the game together with making significant improvements to ped cycle and loot mix to have a hope of retaining those that remain and gaining new players again.


My 2 pec...
 
Not profiting in the long term. But I can assure you based on the experience in 2019 that I feel the same way as messi. Work and things will turn.

Like xen said, you're asking to fundamentally change the game. It's just not feasible and it's not a good idea. Maybe make a new game, but dont try to change something that's worked for 15 years. People have come, gone lost and won despite 1.0 or 2.0. 2.0 is what it is, it's for the best of the game and gives clear goals. Achieve high looter levels and high effiency weapon while spending the least on markup and generating more. No more 5% FB to profit TT, you cant just depo 30k usd and go right to profiting TT anymore.

Bit of a ramble, I'm at a long traffic light :D
 
I agree there seems something wrong.

Just for an overview of this new FEN chip I own at 80% efficiency.

I spent 59k... yes k in tiers =so far to t7
Approx 30k in cost

80% efficiency is between mod merc and imk2

Now, just ask yourself, if you spent this much would you expect constant losses?

Would it be a good model at all to have even noticable losses with this "investment"?

Here is the truth:

-16023 over 177 tracked runs which you can see in great detail here:


my overview for 2019

ammo used, the decays, the loot returned and even the dps miss evade info for every minute of those runs



This is why I track it, only then can we show these numbers to the people who can actually do anything, clearly Mindark will not.
 
I agree there seems something wrong.

Just for an overview of this new FEN chip I own at 80% efficiency.
...


I always polish and oil up my coins when I go to the slots in the casino.
I can very efficiently shove them into the slot machine.
Very smoothly they enter the machine, not making a noise.
And when they go so smoothly I can almost double the feed speed since the oil lets them slide in so well!

But somehow, I always keep losing. And the fat fuck sitting next to me, his shirt hanging from his trousers, his coins dirty as sticking as hell, getting the jackpot!!

How unfair is that!?!?!
 
I always polish and oil up my coins when I go to the slots in the casino.
I can very efficiently shove them into the slot machine.
Very smoothly they enter the machine, not making a noise.
And when they go so smoothly I can almost double the feed speed since the oil lets them slide in so well!

But somehow, I always keep losing. And the fat fuck sitting next to me, his shirt hanging from his trousers, his coins dirty as sticking as hell, getting the jackpot!!

How unfair is that!?!?!

Point 1: I am MILLIONS of Peds up overall I will never lose in this game. The point is recent losses.

Point 2: I am losing with a distinct purpose in mind, otherwise, i'd walk. The data is invaluable for me as an educational tool for now.
 
Last edited:
BUT, it's just a bad period that will pass, better days will come, better luck with MU etc. I won't judge the game by the last 22 days. Or a bad month. No one should. If you do, you already lost.

but new players will, it's their first impression, what do you think is going to happen when the first impression is MA sucking the PED card dry in no time and never paying back? Right, new player leaves...

and as it goes for the old players, having downswing that lasts for 8-12 months or maybe even longer, it just sucks for them and at some point they get tired of it and leave as well... even the patience of very patient players is limited....

sure you can stubbornly stand there "everythings fine, you just need to play longer" while players are walking away from the game, but then don't wonder if there's barely any players playing...
 
Last edited:
How big exactly should be the downswing so I could say something is wrong?
apparently 22 days is not enough and some says even 8-12 months is not enough ...
 
How big exactly should be the downswing so I could say something is wrong?
apparently 22 days is not enough and some says even 8-12 months is not enough ...

There is a misconception when it comes to downswing.
People believe and act like they should be 95-100% + return when shooting garbage tools/skills.
First of all everything counts in tt spent, not days, not logins, not rounds not hot/cold period or any other stupid shit.
There is no general rule as how much you should spend because we all are using different tools.
But if you spend lets say 500 ped/hour.I would assume that shooting somewhere around 500-800k ped will put you right to where you belong.
If your tools/skills are set to yield you 97.2% return then you should be around there once you've spent 800k ped to a decent sized mob close to where you are.
Once again , you are getting back what you are expected to receive based on the input in this game.
 
but new players will, it's their first impression, what do you think is going to happen when the first impression is MA sucking the PED card dry in no time and never paying back? Right, new player leaves...

and as it goes for the old players, having downswing that lasts for 8-12 months or maybe even longer, it just sucks for them and at some point they get tired of it and leave as well... even the patience of very patient players is limited....

sure you can stubbornly stand there "everythings fine, you just need to play longer" while players are walking away from the game, but then don't wonder if there's barely any players playing...

The thing is, for new players, their peds actually last a really long time now, just because their cycle rate is so much lower. Imagine cycling 100 ped an hour @ 95%. 10 dollars will last you at least 20 hours assuming you TT everything.

Losses only start to seem a bit much as cycle rate increases...
 
The thing is, for new players, their peds actually last a really long time now, just because their cycle rate is so much lower. Imagine cycling 100 ped an hour @ 95%. 10 dollars will last you at least 20 hours assuming you TT everything.

Losses only start to seem a bit much as cycle rate increases...

Imagine cycling 100 PED an hour @80%, which is pretty common when it comes to crafting, your 10 dollars only last 5 hours and that only if you cycle them on EP...
 
Last edited:
but new players will, it's their first impression, what do you think is going to happen when the first impression is MA sucking the PED card dry in no time and never paying back? Right, new player leaves...

Any new player who is cycling PEDs fast enough that they might feel they are being "sucked dry", is a) a moron and/or b) a gambling addict. In either case, it's probably best, for their own sake, that they leave.
 
Any new player who is cycling PEDs fast enough that they might feel they are being "sucked dry", is a) a moron and/or b) a gambling addict. In either case, it's probably best, for their own sake, that they leave.

What's the point in having run with returns as low as 60% or getting 20-30 bad return runs in a row or a down swing that lasts over 9 months other than risking that players leave disappointed? There's nothing good in having that....
 
Remember it is a game first and RCE second.

This is the biased postulate of this thread.

PE was more than a game (even MA said), BECAUSE it was a RCE.
So it was first a RCE.
At some point MA decided to change this, and make a simple game out of it.
So that's what it is now for real players (hunters/miners/crafters..), a simple game, and the most expensive one.
MA simply "forgot" to tell players it now became a "one-way" RCE.. :rolleyes:

In a RCE you would try to WIN, so to earn money, and it was possible.
I remember myself whith my old avatar, back in 2008/2009, after about 500$ deposit, I've had 2000$ in a single loot (Trox young).
This will never happen anymore, especially after 2.0.
Cause now the return are tracked for one good reason, to makes you get the 95% return, if you are +5K one day, you will loose 5K the next day.

For sure a few people will get positive return sometimes, the choosen ones who post their good result here on forum, or the ones streaming, etc..
Few is needed to give hope to the people..

But most are now happy whith 95% 97%, whatever the number, anyway it's just negative return.
And people are OK whith that cause they now see this as what it is; just a game.

Be sure the % return will never be better, and it will only decrease because it can't be any other way.

MA use Shares to get big amount of money, CLD sold for 6M$ for example (it probably saved their company).

But what will happen when owners of CLDs will have been paid for 6M$ ?
Then CLD will become 100% loss for MA, so what will they do ?
New deeds... :wtg:

CP deeds are coming soon.
Then it will keep the game alive for a bit more, but will they continue like this endlessly ?
Will they create deeds for Amethera non-claimed lands ?
Then create a new moon for Caly and so deeds for it ?

It's doomed, sooner or later it will collapse.

So EU is a RCE for few people only now; Traders, Deed owners who don't play, etc..
And it's only a game for you players, you will never make money playing this game.

Now some people think it's OK, they think this game is "fun", well why not.. they probably don't know alot of other games if they think endless grinding for nothing is fun..
Or they just don't know that this game is not a RCE anymore..

And maybe you guys should start to talk about $ instead of PED or % return.
Then it's more realistic to see that you can loose 10$/20$/50$/100$ every hour at medium/high level.
And so you'll stop asking yourself why you are trying to level-up, to grow your avatar.

Because indeed, the % return will never be better than 95% on the long run.
So the only thing you gain from it is the possibility of losing more money, faster. :wise:
 
Because indeed, the % return will never be better than 95% on the long run.

Funny because on 2018 official mindark returns I received shows different.
Or maybe you tried to say that 95% for the majority of people who uses avg-decent tools/skills.
 
Like xen said, you're asking to fundamentally change the game. It's just not feasible and it's not a good idea. Maybe make a new game, but dont try to change something that's worked for 15 years.

The MMORPG market should have a couple hundred million potential players, EU has what? a couple thousand of them? What makes you think the way worked for 15 years when the game still only has a couple thousand players in a market with several hundred million players, when so much stuff (space stuff etc.) has been/had to obviously be canceled/delayed?
 
Funny because on 2018 official mindark returns I received shows different.
Or maybe you tried to say that 95% for the majority of people who uses avg-decent tools/skills.

So EU is a RCE for few people only now; Traders, Deed owners who don't play, etc..

Believe it or not but the "etc.." was meant mostly for big investors.

No doubt you are in top 10 biggest depositors, probably top 5, and why not First.
So as I told you some time ago, you are an exception, and you should accept it.
(and that also why you just CAN'T give advice to average players in this game, especially talking about bankroll managment.. but that's off-topic)

Indeed I was talking to usual players, so 90% of player-base, not to the exceptions.

Nor to the choosen ones.. :)

For sure a few people will get positive return sometimes, the choosen ones who post their good result here on forum, or the ones streaming, etc..
Few is needed to give hope to the people..
 
No doubt you are in top 10 biggest depositors, probably top 5, and why not First.
So as I told you some time ago, you are an exception, and you should accept it.
(and that also why you just CAN'T give advice to average players in this game, especially talking about bankroll managment.. but that's off-topic)

Indeed I was talking to usual players, so 90% of player-base, not to the exceptions.

Nor to the choosen ones.. :)

I am not even top 50 depositors if you ask me.
I don't understand the exception part.I decided and worked my way to that level at all cost.When I did register to play the game there was no option "press here if you are an exception".

I do appreciate correcting what you just said.I want to make sure we are on the right page.People might understand different reading the same line of text.
 
I am not even top 50 depositors if you ask me.
I don't understand the exception part.I decided and worked my way to that level at all cost.When I did register to play the game there was no option "press here if you are an exception".

I do appreciate correcting what you just said.I want to make sure we are on the right page.People might understand different reading the same line of text.

Not in the top 50 depositors ?..
Let's be serious.. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I don't correcting anything, it's just question of time spent..
If this game is your whole life, it's not mine.
So I can't spend 2 hours for a post, to list every single thing, the "etc.." was meant for that.
I guess most people get what I mean in the post anyway.

And the fact you are trying to get the discution focus on an insignificant detail show that the real meaning of the post is disturbing for you.

I can understand that you always try to take defense of the game since you succeed in it.
But be sure I'm not even working against the few people who succeed in it.

Indeed the day it will collapse, you will not be an exception.
And maybe you will be one of the most affected.
 
Back
Top