HL8 unl

[Sofia]

Okay, people say we need pricecheck thread on this so it might be better indeed for both the buyer and seller to find the right price so that everybody's happy.

So - what price could it have now. The unl HL8.

 

[aridash]

you buying or selling? .

 

[kyleen]

around 500k, can be used as a fap and a gun.

 

[Sofia]

you buying or selling? .

None, ppl got mad on me cuz I said something related to PC again so I made the PC thread. >_>

 

[Luckycharm]

Well heres some stats for avg:


Unlimited has 4,07% better eco if the (L) version has 137% markup. Should the (L) version drop to 112% their eco's are the same and besides being able to repair, theres no gain to an unlimited HL8.

Luckily for the owners it's not come to that (yet). I think it's a very risky investment. My belief is that these guns cannot increase in value.

Yet i think there's people willing to pay +20k for it as I don't see bids of +25k on any sales threads and theres always ppl that'll think "Hey thats way below what last one sold for!". It's hard to say really. Just my thoughts about it. But in a year maybe little over tt is all it's worth. When HL8(L) dropped way in value.

 

[Parasiteone]

short term maybe 15-20k long term? probably not much prices on the L pistols are dropping fast... if the gun drops below 110% its really not worth seeking the ul version

 

[NastyCenturion]

dec 2008 was ~40k now i think about 25k

 

[Zabler]

I would probobly sell at tt+30k
I would conisder selling at tt+25k
I would not sell at tt+20k

 

[ALEXANDER]

Well heres some stats for avg:


Unlimited has 4,07% better eco if the (L) version has 137% markup. Should the (L) version drop to 112% their eco's are the same and besides being able to repair, theres no gain to an unlimited HL8.

Luckily for the owners it's not come to that (yet). I think it's a very risky investment. My belief is that these guns cannot increase in value.

Yet i think there's people willing to pay +20k for it as I don't see bids of +25k on any sales threads and theres always ppl that'll think "Hey thats way below what last one sold for!". It's hard to say really. Just my thoughts about it. But in a year maybe little over tt is all it's worth. When HL8(L) dropped way in value.

same point here... No more than 15k
Call me cheap but personally I would not buy it even for 10k. It's a strange gun, not good for small mobs not good for big ones either. Hl12 ul is a much better choice for that matter. Plus you can get better eco with P5a/kors400 and I don't think there are mobs that you can take down with hl8 and you can't with kors400

 

[Ciobyna]

I would probobly sell at tt+30k
I would conisder selling at tt+25k
I would not sell at tt+20k

It seems that you will sell before I will do
Add +5k to the prices above for my prices...

It's way too good of a weapon to sell it, for me anyway (except maybe to get an HL12 but there is only one in existence...)

Ciobyna

 

[Sofia]

Well heres some stats for avg:


Unlimited has 4,07% better eco if the (L) version has 137% markup. Should the (L) version drop to 112% their eco's are the same and besides being able to repair, theres no gain to an unlimited HL8.

Luckily for the owners it's not come to that (yet). I think it's a very risky investment. My belief is that these guns cannot increase in value.

Yet i think there's people willing to pay +20k for it as I don't see bids of +25k on any sales threads and theres always ppl that'll think "Hey thats way below what last one sold for!". It's hard to say really. Just my thoughts about it. But in a year maybe little over tt is all it's worth. When HL8(L) dropped way in value.

Well, this is by far the most reasonable post I think, looking long term it might be an unnecessary risk indeed.

Well yes, 25k is what sellers have been trying to offer, however there's also been attempts to sell for +20k, and right now the sales threads have start to have under 25k BO.
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
Which means people value it under +20k actually.

same point here... No more than 15k
Call me cheap but personally I would not buy it even for 10k. It's a strange gun, not good for small mobs not good for big ones either. Hl12 ul is a much better choice for that matter. Plus you can get better eco with P5a/kors400 and I don't think there are mobs that you can take down with hl8 and you can't with kors400

Well this is another very good reason. The thing is, it is a bit better than P5a/Scrof/HL6/KorssH400 (L)s, which are very cheap and economic on their own while unl HL8 offers couple less % eco and 1/3 more damage per second than those.

Now, getting hit less and killing mob faster would imho get you less decay and in the end you would get about same eco and 1/3 higher killing speed but the thing is that you'll only be hunting those same small/medium mobs you did with Korss anyway, because on larger regen stuff GeoTrek Apis LP485(L) is the way to go.

Have you ever been on Crystal Palace? All the mobs swarm you even though you would try to avoid that from happening. Decay comes in huge amounts. Like, even soloing with Apis doesn't protect you from a high decay bill. HL8 does almost 2 times less damage per second than that, so you would get AT LEAST two times more decay with it (because of high speed regen and additional fapping, etc).

So in the end, it is not efficient enough for large mobs, but does smaller ones faster.

It's way too good of a weapon to sell it, for me anyway (except maybe to get an HL12 but there is only one in existence...

Well, having HL8 atm is really better to just use it and not try to sell while for those who doesn't atm it's not worth getting it. What would it sell for? Well HL6 unl does sell well at +6-8k so as HL8 is 1/3 more dps, +8-12k I'd say.

 

[ALEXANDER]

Well HL6 unl does sell well at +6-8k

btw HL6 UL is definitely less eco than it's L version so TT for it from me )

 

[sitram]

Now, getting hit less and killing mob faster would imho get you less decay and in the end you would get about same eco and 1/3 higher killing speed but the thing is that you'll only be hunting those same small/medium mobs you did with Korss anyway, because on larger regen stuff GeoTrek Apis LP485(L) is the way to go.

You get hit at the same rate by the mob no matter of dps Sofia

With higher dps you get less decay/mob.

Overall decay should be the same over time with different dps weapons and approximately the same evader level. 1 hour of hunt with maxed mod merc and 1 hour of hunt with p5a on CP would give you approximately the same decay. Imo, the only thing that high dps weapon offers is:
- reduced chance to get crit by one mob but over the same time period you should get the same amount of crits no matter of dps.
- more ped cycled per hour.

Sitram

Sitram

 

[Witte]

You get hit at the same rate by the mob no matter of dps Sofia

With higher dps you get less decay/mob.

Overall decay should be the same over time with different dps weapons and approximately the same evader level. 1 hour of hunt with maxed mod merc and 1 hour of hunt with p5a on CP would give you approximately the same decay. Imo, the only thing that high dps weapon offers is:
- reduced change to get crit by one mob but over the same time period you should get the same amount of crits no matter of dps.
- more ped cycled per hour.

Sitram

Sitram

Depends a lot on the range and mob speed. You can do some serious damage with many guns before the mob even had a chance to hit you. This also means you need to fap less during a kill, reducing the time a mob is hitting you even more.

 

[Sofia]

You get hit at the same rate by the mob no matter of dps Sofia

With higher dps you get less decay/mob.

1 hour of hunt with maxed mod merc and 1 hour of hunt with p5a on CP would give you approximately the same decay.

Well, decay per mob is what matters in my opinion, and what I meant there. Say:

1) it takes you 10 ped ammo and gun decay overall to kill mob X (lets assume that player who uses them has same eco level for both weapons).
2) it makes you additional 0.5 ped decay per minute on armor and fap.

So let's assume with P5a it takes 6 minutes to kill X. Which means 3 ped extra decay.
Now assuming Mod Merc takes 2 minutes to get the X mob down, it will make you only 1 ped extra decay.

Costs per each mob X to kill:
P5a: 13 PED
Mod Merc: 11 PED

So higher dps is certainly more econess. Plus, while you can only kill 10 Xes per hour with P5a, MM allows you to do 30!

 

[Zabler]

Which means people value it under +20k actually.

In swedish i would say "Är du dum eller gör du dig till?"
You value it to under 20k because you want it to happend, whats your problem with owners of the HL8?

You've been trahsing every single sales thread and now your pricecheck thread turns into a joke.

If something doesnt sell, does that mean its overvalued?

How many Mod. fap, Imk2, mm or whatever does sell immidiatly when they reach the market? NONE.. Cause peopel doesnt have that kind of cash.

Now im NOT comparing the HL8 to a mod. fap, but the fact is, that even at TT+20k which means aprox. 26.000 peds in total, thats a heck of lot of money, most people does not have those assets in game. Thats aprox. what a swedish worker gets in salary for a complete month, most people wouldnt spend that on one single item.

Does this mean that Frank (who was the latest person getting a thrashed salesthread) is wrong when he wants tt+25k?

Perhaps he values his gun at tt+25k, the same value i think its worth for example and even less than Ciobyna values it. Are we all wrong?

No, we are not, since we are the owners, we actually decide the price.

And the price for the product is.. .whatever is the lowest one of the owners will go.. I guess there is .. perhaps 10 of this gun in game.. I doubt that many of them will sell for under 25k, some of them will sell at tt+20k, perhaps even one of them at tt+15k.

So, just because you calculated that its worth tt+12k, whats makes your guess the correct marketprice?

If you read your own fucking pricecheck thread, you have multiple persons saying +25k (owners of HL8's though, so colored guesses) you have people saying +20k, you have 2 persons saying 15-20k...

When you sell items with a high value, you'll have to wait for someone to make the decision... People who buy items this expensive without thinking first are one of two kinds:
* Stupid
* To rich

Everyone else will take their time to evalute how this will effect their gaming.
Therefor, sales threads and sales periods will be long.

Preferably for those who wish to sell, the threads will also be WITHOUT YOUR HELP.

 

[sitram]

Depends a lot on the range and mob speed. You can do some serious damage with many guns before the mob even had a chance to hit you. This also means you need to fap less during a kill, reducing the time a mob is hitting you even more.

My analysis was not aimed toward all the mobs in EU but mainly to those who crowd you and the range is not really a big advantage. Eg CP

 

[sitram]

Well, decay per mob is what matters in my opinion, and what I meant there. Say:

1) it takes you 10 ped ammo and gun decay overall to kill mob X (lets assume that player who uses them has same eco level for both weapons).
2) it makes you additional 0.5 ped decay per minute on armor and fap.

So let's assume with P5a it takes 6 minutes to kill X. Which means 3 ped extra decay.
Now assuming Mod Merc takes 2 minutes to get the X mob down, it will make you only 1 ped extra decay.

Costs per each mob X to kill:
P5a: 13 PED
Mod Merc: 11 PED

So higher dps is certainly more econess. Plus, while you can only kill 10 Xes per hour with P5a, MM allows you to do 30!

Thanks for the math lesson and the flashy post Sofia.

Please use correct words next time you want to express something. You said "Now, getting hit less..." when you were referring to a higher dps weapon. All I did was trying to correct you so you won't mislead ppl in believing that a higher dps weapon will make mobs hit you less. A mob won't miss you more, you just kill it faster

Yes you are right, it costs you more to kill a mob with p5a then with MM and that's mostly because of the additional costs(fap/armor decay). On the same time frame, if you use the same class of weapon, one with higher dps then the other, the decay on armor and fap will be the same and it's based on your skills. The dps itself does not influence the total decay you pay on a crowded place like CP in relation with time but only with ped spent. A combination of DPS with Range can influence the decay only on certain mobs.

EDIT:
From the recent tests in hunting posted on EF.com it seems that loot is in relation with damage dealt to a mob. For example, by doubling the amount of damage(using a lower dps weapon) a hunter will get on average two times more loot but also more decay. If mobs hit him at a certain fixed frequency which is determined by his evader profession, by spending double time on the mob a hunter get ~ two times more decay on armor and fap. It's just like killing two mobs in one, right?

In my opinion the main advantage of a higher dps weapon is that allows you to cycle fast peds faster. All other advantages it might give are available only if certain conditions(limitations) are meet.

Sitram

 

[NastyCenturion]

If you read your own fucking pricecheck thread, you have multiple persons saying +25k (owners of HL8's though, so colored guesses) you have people saying +20k, you have 2 persons saying 15-20k...

i said 25k (and i dont have 1) just because i think that is the price now ... i still dont understand why ppl compare items and try to find a corelation between price and stats because this is not the case

between dec 2008 and now the stats of the gun did not change the eco of the gun did not change, the dps did not change but the price did (-15k or 20k)so IMO the price has nothing to do with stats but more with the economy.

 

[Witte]

In my opinion the main advantage of a higher dps weapon is that allows you to cycle fast peds faster. All other advantages it might give are available only if certain conditions(limitations) are meet.

I think the "limitations" you talk about is the most used hunting style in EU. I do not know many people who deliberately get crowded by mobs. Even on CP I can prevent it easily. So in almost any situation, higher dps would be at least of some benefit. Not only the shorter period you get hit in relation to its HP, but also the possibility to use a cheaper fap between mobs. The armor/fap decay per mob is much more important than the decay cost over time.

Not saying this immediately justifies the price, but it does count a fair bit. I have upgraded from Scrof+105 to CB24+dante last few weeks, and mobs where I used to fap about every time during kill, I now rarely fap during kill. The armor/fap decay per mob has decreased quite drastically, and it really makes a difference.

 

[sitram]

between dec 2008 and now the stats of the gun did not change the eco of the gun did not change, the dps did not change but the price did (-15k or 20k)so IMO the price has nothing to do with stats but more with the economy.

Tell that to Sofia She bought an UL k400 for +40k or something. I bet she won't be able to get that much back and not because of the economy

The UL guns's prices are not influenced only by RL economy but by their usability based on the relations with other guns, evolution of average dps and evolution of the mobs in EU. The average dps is slowly rising and so is the mob's HP so the price on some weapons will change over time time because their are no longer so desirable by players. The hl8 UL is not exactly the best money making machine out there anymore and this, combined with the low availability of cash RL has made made it's high drop in price.

Of course some ppl still try to get a higher price on some items and we shouldn't blaim them. We all try to maximize our profits or minimize our losses, right?

Sitram

 

[madman]

prices of the hl8 have droped hugely, not as much as the hl6,

Anyone taking into account the 2 on auc recently both listed for under 20k , I personaly have 2 deals on table both of the value of +19k and possibly a 3rd with a trade item +peds, so +25k way too much if you selling, but is it woth selling lower for you personly thats something you gotta decide,

Looking @ market prices would not be surprised to see this item drop more so i might hold of a few more weeks and see if i can get the gun even cheeper.

EU IS DYYNAMIC

 

[Zabler]

Tell that to Sofia She bought an UL k400 for +40k or something. I bet she won't be able to get that much back and not because of the economy

The UL guns's prices are not influenced only by RL economy but by their usability based on the relations with other guns, evolution of average dps and evolution of the mobs in EU. The average dps is slowly rising and so is the mob's HP so the price on some weapons will change over time time because their are no longer so desirable by players. The hl8 UL is not exactly the best money making machine out there anymore and this, combined with the low availability of cash RL has made made it's high drop in price.

Of course some ppl still try to get a higher price on some items and we shouldn't blaim them. We all try to maximize our profits or minimize our losses, right?

Sitram

My guesses are that a majority of the playerbase wants to hunt one of the following mobs fulltime:

Aurli
Kreltin
Scipulor
Furor
Atrox
Frescouda

And the HL8 works fine on all of them, except the highest maturities of each mob. I've taked down Atrox OA, Kreltin Alpha, Aurli Ravager, Scipulor Alpha, Frescouda Provider with the HL8 solo, all of them a bit to big, but you can do it. In dome 1 and 2 the HL8 is great, vs small scips its great, vs atrox by ithaca its great.

So unless they boost those mobs even more, the HL8 will hold for another couple of years.

 

[sitram]

I think the "limitations" you talk about is the most used hunting style in EU. I do not know many people who deliberately get crowded by mobs. Even on CP I can prevent it easily. So in almost any situation, higher dps would be at least of some benefit. Not only the shorter period you get hit in relation to its HP, but also the possibility to use a cheaper fap between mobs. The armor/fap decay per mob is much more important than the decay cost over time.

Not saying this immediately justifies the price, but it does count a fair bit. I have upgraded from Scrof+105 to CB24+dante last few weeks, and mobs where I used to fap about every time during kill, I now rarely fap during kill. The armor/fap decay per mob has decreased quite drastically, and it really makes a difference.

I see the fap cost as in relation to the amount of dmg the armor protects against a certain mob. The decay of armor is in relation with the evader level. They are connected imo.

By doubling the damage dealt to a mob I get ~ two time more decay on armor and fap because I spent on average two times more to kill it. This is only true from the moment a mob starts to hit me.

Since you brought that example, I think we should't mix here pistols and rifles and stay on the same weapon class. There is a rather large difference between hunting with scrof+A105 and cb24+dante and this comes from the extra range of the rifle. Having more range means that you inflict more damage to the mob before it starts hitting you, actually even more then with two pistols with different dps.

A mob on which you can use the range of a weapon in combination to dps to reduce to under 50% it's HP or even kill it before it starts hitting you are some examples of those limitations I was referring to. But that's not the case with laser pistols

 

[Witte]

I see the fap cost as in relation to the amount of dmg the armor protects against a certain mob. The decay of armor is in relation with the evader level. They are connected imo.

By doubling the damage dealt to a mob I get ~ two time more decay on armor and fap because I spent on average two times more to kill it. This is only true from the moment a mob starts to hit me.

Since you brought that example, I think we should't mix here pistols and rifles and stay on the same weapon class. There is a rather large difference between hunting with scrof+A105 and cb24+dante and this comes from the extra range of the rifle. Having more range means that you inflict more damage to the mob before it starts hitting you, actually even more then with two pistols with different dps.

A mob on which you can use the range of a weapon in combination to dps to reduce to under 50% it's HP or even kill it before it starts hitting you are some examples of those limitations I was referring to. But that's not the case with laser pistols

My main point is that higher dps decreases your decay per mob. But still, higher dps means a relative longer time shooting when the mob is approaching to the time it is hitting you. Although this is a rather small difference for handguns it should not be neglected. It all comes down to these kind of small differences when we talk about eco.

 

[sitram]

My guesses are that a majority of the playerbase wants to hunt one of the following mobs fulltime:

Aurli
Kreltin
Scipulor
Furor
Atrox
Frescouda

And the HL8 works fine on all of them, except the highest maturities of each mob. I've taked down Atrox OA, Kreltin Alpha, Aurli Ravager, Scipulor Alpha, Frescouda Provider with the HL8 solo, all of them a bit to big, but you can do it. In dome 1 and 2 the HL8 is great, vs small scips its great, vs atrox by ithaca its great.

So unless they boost those mobs even more, the HL8 will hold for another couple of years.

I wouldn't hunt any of the big maturities of the mobs you listed above with hl8 UL unless I either want to get frustrated really fast or have a good armor for them.

Sitram

 

[Zabler]

I wouldn't hunt any of the big maturities of the mobs you listed above with hl8 UL unless I either want to get frustrated really fast or have a good armor for them.

Sitram

Maybe i suck at english, but what i said was that the HL8 works perfect on them, EXCEPT on the big maturities...

 

[Amenophis]

HL8 ul is and will be a nice skilling thingie. The thing you have to consider upon buying it is , ofc the mark-up of its L counterpart, and the time you intend to spend using it. If you get to use it , starting with the sib period till you will get commando you may well get back what you payed for from the % of the L not payed. HL 11 is kinda rare, HL12 even more , so , you basically have to find a gun that can help you skill faster than zounds of korsses or scrofs. HL8 ul can do that. Interesting thing is that it is getting more and more of a nice choice as higher your evader and paramedic professions get.
Atm I could not buy it cause I made a choice in purchasing an armor set I always wanted. But with current frenzy in sales I think I may have done a better thing on the long term. The real value is way above what market says nowadays and that is only circumstantial to rl economical issues. Get a list of mob evade cut-offs and you'll get a list of what you can hunt with it ... and the list is huge .
The moment I would sell it is the moment i would have the same eco and dps on Military/Maddox* otherwise I would be doing a huge mistake of having made an investment I wasn't able to recover.

--
* I believe that's around killstrike so , basically after getting some white hairs

 

[sitram]

My main point is that higher dps decreases your decay per mob. But still, higher dps means a relative longer time shooting when the mob is approaching to the time it is hitting you. Although this is a rather small difference for handguns it should not be neglected. It all comes down to these kind of small differences when we talk about eco.

Higher range means relative longer time shooting when the mob is approaching to the time it is hitting you on two weapons with the same dps, higher dps means more damage dealt in the same time to the mob before it starts hitting you.

I am not disagreeing with you, I tend to apply the same principles in my hunting style and so far it worked well.

In the same time I am wondering if it is worth trying to take advantage of those small differences. I called these differences limitations, in a previous post, because it limits the burn rate per hour. The benefits of these differences can only be used if you hunt in a quiet area, take one mob at a time, use smaller fap to heal between mobs which means more time wasted etc.

Does the savings a hunter gains from these "advantages" is higher then if the amount of ped cycled is increased by 20% with a profit margin reduced by 1%-2% plus a 20% increase in skill volume gained?

Sitram

 

[Metatron]

If you are looking to buy, buy soon. If you are looking to sell, take your time. This applies to most weapons right now though...