Become a citizen of Planet Calypso!

[Viperstrike]

It is funny how serious consideration into investing into a company can consume you and keep you awake.

3am here and don't feel a bit tired, head spinning though with thoughts on this topic

I know I will feel it hit when the sun rises in a few hours though

 

[Kombinator]

There is one core questions that will drive the understanding of the worth of the deeds (just the initial understanding of course, as the value will and should fluctuate depending on expectations on the changes in these).

WHAT IS DEFINED AS REVENUE? PRECISELY, LINE BY LINE WITH ALL CAVEATS IN PAINFUL EXCRUCIATING DETAIL EXPLAIN WHAT IS CONSIDERED AS REVENUE ITEMS. ALSO PROVIDE HISTORICAL DATA ON THEM AND PEOPLE CAN TRY TO EXTRAPOLATE FUTURE TRENDS.

Without this very basic info, these deeds are nothing more than a fun way to increase your gaming experience in the future. If MA wants people to consider this as store of value or a reasonable investment, it is best not to treat the mostly adult and mostly mature playerbase as mindless cattle.

 

[danimal01]

Yep this is a good point !

But are the operating costs, development and this ... marketing .... which I hope radically increases worth half the PP revenue ?

I need figures, and some assurance that marketing is going to be the remainder of the revenue (and spent properly) - ingame treasures, roadshows, computer shows around the world. (ie. Not just some internet marketing company doing very little at this time, a bit of face to face, meet and greet style interaction is more needed to get bums on seats)

Okay Vipterstrike, I want to help you out here. Firstly, kindly shut up. I want to help you out since you are my friend here. Do NOT take out a loan on your house just to buy some PCD - (Planet Calypso Deed's) Do you have any idea how long it would take you to pay back that loan and that is not including interest! You'd have to pay back nearly 60k-70k USD by the time you were done all for what? 500 "shares" of PCD? It is stupid to take out a loan to fund anything such as gambling, stock trading,and buying retirement . Plain and simple if you don't have the money do not spend what you don't have. It would take you quite awhile to pay back the loan then once you did it's no guarantee that the shares would still pay out let alone stay capped at 60k shares. Who's to say MA won't change all of this or just take it back and say "psyce" now you are left with a mortgage on your home and nothing to show for it.

What MA is doing in a sense is offering a share's system that pays out dividends, but without the legal jargon and without the protection you would normally receive when purchasing regular stocks. They are HURTING so bad for CASH that they couldn't file the IPO in order to get real stocks in real life so they though what a better plan than to sucker the players. This seems kind of illegitimate if you ask me, if the company tanks the stocks are worthless they're 0TT value

Just some food for thought...

P.S. I couldn't quote any of your previous quotes so I just quoted your most recent post. Please do think this through before you end up making a huge mistake.

~Danimal

 

[Wistrel]

I guess you will all be my bosses from now on then

We always were

(you love it really ^_^ )

Wistrel

 

[Viperstrike]

Okay Vipterstrike, I want to help you out here. Firstly, kindly shut up. I want to help you out since you are my friend here. Do NOT take out a loan on your house just to buy some PCD - (Planet Calypso Deed's) Do you have any idea how long it would take you to pay back that loan and that is not including interest! You'd have to pay back nearly 60k-70k USD by the time you were done all for what? 500 "shares" of PCD? It is stupid to take out a loan to fund anything such as gambling, stock trading,and buying retirement . Plain and simple if you don't have the money do not spend what you don't have. It would take you quite awhile to pay back the loan then once you did it's no guarantee that the shares would still pay out let alone stay capped at 60k shares. Who's to say MA won't change all of this or just take it back and say "psyce" now you are left with a mortgage on your home and nothing to show for it.

What MA is doing in a sense is offering a share's system that pays out dividends, but without the legal jargon and without the protection you would normally receive when purchasing regular stocks. They are HURTING so bad for CASH that they couldn't file the IPO in order to get real stocks in real life so they though what a better plan than to sucker the players. This seems kind of illegitimate if you ask me, if the company tanks the stocks are worthless they're 0TT value

Just some food for thought...

P.S. I couldn't quote any of your previous quotes so I just quoted your most recent post. Please do think this through before you end up making a huge mistake.

~Danimal

Hey Danimal

Still looking for that corn sail and argo claw you need btw, never ending search it seems heh

Anyway i posted this after taking everyones advise

Well after talking this over with family tonight,
I have come to the conclusion that it is not a bad investment after all.

However there should be no rush to buy up the 500 units at once, instead a better way to go about it would be to gradually acquire them over the next 3 - 5 years as the game further develops and a clearer direction to MAs thinking and doing unfolds.

This way a line of credit will not be needed on the house to purchase them, instead I will get them from my RL income.

For now, back to playing for fun

Yes I think so too, I am still wanting to get the 500 total units, don't get me wrong, but slow and steady investments always are best ... I almost got into the hype of it all and lost myself ... again.

5 years is not that long a time and will go rather quickly.

So thanks to all those who I had a chat with and those who gave advise in PM, reps and posts

I do appreciate it.

Cheers,
Viper

 

[Qwackers]

WHAT IS DEFINED AS REVENUE? PRECISELY, LINE BY LINE WITH ALL CAVEATS IN PAINFUL EXCRUCIATING DETAIL EXPLAIN WHAT IS CONSIDERED AS REVENUE ITEMS. ALSO PROVIDE HISTORICAL DATA ON THEM AND PEOPLE CAN TRY TO EXTRAPOLATE FUTURE TRENDS.

From MindArk's half year report for Jan-11 to Jun-11 they made net sales of 23,605 kSEK. At an average exchange rate of 6.5 SEK/$ and expanding to 12 months that makes net sales of $7,263,077. Using the planet tracker on ET Calypso mobs take roughly 90% of the global payouts. Using this it can be assumed Calypso generated $6,536,769 net sales covered in some way by ‘decay revenue’. 50% goes to the PP share $3,268,385 and 50% of that (25% total) goes to the CLD of $1,634,192 in the year. With 60K CLD at $100 is $6 million.

$1,634,192 / $6,000,000 27.2% ROI, sound familiar.

Now there are some interesting flaws in this model.

 

[Kombinator]

Good starting point, but the key is what is DEFINED AS REVENUE FOR THE PURPOSE OF DEED DIVIDEND PAYOUT. The net sales information, as well as the average take of MA of 10% are good estimates, that can be adjusted quickly and as need at corporate level...

 

[Wistrel]

Isn't this in effect selling shares in a company without going through any securities or financial avenues?

I would say so, yes

Wistrel

 

[Spawn]

It is funny how serious consideration into investing into a company can consume you and keep you awake.

3am here and don't feel a bit tired, head spinning though with thoughts on this topic

I know I will feel it hit when the sun rises in a few hours though

Same here.... thinking and thinking, reflecting the consequences.. tick tock tick tock

 

[danimal01]

Hey Danimal

Still looking for that corn sail and argo claw you need btw, never ending search it seems heh

Anyway i posted this after taking everyones advise

No, that's a horrible IDEA...since I can't pursuade you to stop taking out a loan on your house.. you need to buy them all at once at the initial push. You don't want to wait it out and ride the roller coaster because if you are in fact in it for the long run like you say you will buy now and sit on them instead of buying when it peaks and rises. That is a bad strategy and you will ultimately go home empty handed..

Still a very bad idea to take out a loan just to do this...

P.S. Yes I'm still searching..

~Danimal

 

[Viperstrike]

No, that's a horrible IDEA...since I can't pursuade you to stop taking out a loan on your house.. you need to buy them all at once at the initial push. You don't want to wait it out and ride the roller coaster because if you are in fact in it for the long run like you say you will buy now and sit on them instead of buying when it peaks and rises. That is a bad strategy and you will ultimately go home empty handed..

Still a very bad idea to take out a loan just to do this...

P.S. Yes I'm still searching..

~Danimal

Hey Danimal,

Yes the loan was approved today, no I am not going to use it.
I will call the bank tomorrow and cancel the line of credit ... If i keep it i may be tempted.

Anyway, I will buy them slowly out of RL income instead once I see how all this works ... in and out over time.

Good to hear your still looking bud, I will keep searching

 

[remontoire]

Good starting point, but the key is what is DEFINED AS REVENUE FOR THE PURPOSE OF DEED DIVIDEND PAYOUT. The net sales information, as well as the average take of MA of 10% are good estimates, that can be adjusted quickly and as need at corporate level...

This is certainly what anybody considering this as an investment, not as a novelty purchase with 10^-3 pec value and MV of 1000 ped should ask. If you think of the deeds as investment, this is what you need to know.

+rep

 

[danimal01]

It is funny how serious consideration into investing into a company can consume you and keep you awake.

3am here and don't feel a bit tired, head spinning though with thoughts on this topic

I know I will feel it hit when the sun rises in a few hours though

Let me further add that if a "stock" keeps you up at night for whatever reason, it is a shitty stock and you should no longer invest in it. These are just some of my experiences, take it for what it's worth though. I would still rather not see you take out a loan for this type of thing, if anything just buy one share so you can be happy that you got a "piece" of Calypso.

~Danimal

 

[Wistrel]

Shares without any rl documentation, Anshe Chung springs to mind...

HELL YES!

Also I remember the Ponzi guy - Thankfully I made money off him though

Guess the old adage applies. Only gamble what you are willing to loose.

Wistrel

 

[danimal01]

This is certainly what anybody considering this as an investment, not as a novelty purchase with 10^-3 pec value and MV of 1000 ped should ask. If you think of the deeds as investment, this is what you need to know.

+rep

Exactly, the TT value of them is worthless so if MA tanks they have no obligation to even pay out "some" money to the "share" holders, since what they are doing is not really technically legal anyways. How the hell do you even file this for income taxes?

IRS - "We understand you purchased stocks in 2011; is this correct?"
Me - "Yes I did, it was through MA and on a game called EU."
IRS - "You're kidding me right?"
Me - "No.."
IRS - "Thinking: Great another WOW freak..."

~Danimal

 

[remontoire]

I would say so, yes

Wistrel

Well, no. A revenue share agreement that does not entitle you to a share of the company, that does not really give you any decision power in the company is not a "share". These may still turn out to be illegal in the eyes of some regulator, in Sweden or otherwise, but not because these are shares.

 

[Kombinator]

This is certainly what anybody considering this as an investment, not as a novelty purchase with 10^-3 pec value and MV of 1000 ped should ask. If you think of the deeds as investment, this is what you need to know.

+rep

Sorry, got carried away, I will likely buy a share, and may be even 9 to satisfy my game playing needs, but to look at this is an investment is not even a good approach, well said

 

[remontoire]

Exactly, the TT value of them is worthless so if MA tanks they have no obligation to even pay out "some" money to the "share" holders, since what they are doing is not really technically legal anyways. How the hell do you even file this for income taxes?

How do you file any of your withdrawals in excess of deposits? If I had to, this would go as "other foreign income".

Ultimately, IRS is not really relevant to this topic, Swedish laws and financial regulator are.

 

[Norbert]

In general i think that this is a great idea, however a few things do kinda concern me. Who owns calypso after these deeds are bought, what happens if Calypso is sold to a new pp in the future, and as these are not "shares" there are no legal obligations with them afaik.

I love the general idea, but these are some of the many things that keep niggling at me whenever i go to auction about to buy any. Kinda on the fence as to whether i will get any or not at the moment, my idealism and logic are at odds over this .

 

[Kim|MindArk]

Posted on behalf of Jan Welter Timkrans

One of the main reasons for introducing this new system was to finance a substantial marketing campaign for the Entropia Universe. We are committed to initiating a marketing campaign as soon as possibly at much larger scale then we have ever done before.



/EDIT: This was posted in response to questions from Viperstrike voiced yesterday in this thread and through private messages. I thought that the rest of the community would benefit from knowing this as well and that is why I posted the statement in public. - Kim

 

[mastermesh]

How do you file any of your withdrawals in excess of deposits? If I had to, this would go as "other foreign income".

Ultimately, IRS is not really relevant to this topic, Swedish laws and financial regulator are.

Who's figured out how to withdraw more then deposited? Very few I suspect.

 

[mastermesh]

Posting on behalf of Jan Welter Timkrans

One of the main reasons for introducing this new system was to finance a substantial marketing campaign for the Entropia Universe. We are committed to initiating a marketing campaign as soon as possibly at much larger scale then we have ever done before.

You folks might not want to shoot for superbowl ads for 2012, but maybe 2013?
http://www.usatoday.com/money/adver...lmost-sold-out-Only-5-slots-remain/50266272/1... but... since some advertisments in the last few years did contain video game-like parts to them, it might be possible to team up with some company that's already doing ads or something and split costs by letting them use some of your assets in game, and/or putting stuff in the virtual world... Since the Thing thing got done, movie makers might be interested in something similar?

Maybe we need to make a list of a bunch of places where you folks could do ads that would get most bang for your buck?

Maybe cut a deal with the NFL - 10 second superbowl commercial in exchange for a new permanant land in game that is dedicated to NFL history or something. They did NFL comic book many years back so might be in realm of possibility?

 

[danimal01]

Posting on behalf of Jan Welter Timkrans

One of the main reasons for introducing this new system was to finance a substantial marketing campaign for the Entropia Universe. We are committed to initiating a marketing campaign as soon as possibly at much larger scale then we have ever done before.

Marketing Campaign? Like advertising on the Superbowl or doing a commercial of some sort or something?.... This would've helped you guys out years ago had you done it in the "beta" phase...

~Danimal

 

[K-Max]

My GAWD people are mortgaging their houses MA so it sounds. Please do this right this time and don't screw them like you screwed others in the past with re-nigging on your words and changing how everything will go down in the future and make their investments worthless. I mean I still remember all the hanger owner threads and how awful they got reamed in the end of that whole thing. Remember the past is always the sight into the future and this leads me to not wanting to get any of this at all. I wonder how many hanger owners are just jumping all over this wonderful idea?

GL everyone and hope the best for those that get some deeds. You will need it.

 

[Spawn]

Marketing Campaign? Like advertising on the Superbowl or doing a commercial of some sort or something?.... This would've helped you guys out years ago had you done it in the "beta" phase...

~Danimal

Well they did just fine.. that was 2001.. its 10 years later now, still going strong.

 

[Legion]

Posting on behalf of Jan Welter Timkrans

One of the main reasons for introducing this new system was to finance a substantial marketing campaign for the Entropia Universe. We are committed to initiating a marketing campaign as soon as possibly at much larger scale then we have ever done before.

You should make a facebook promo as facebook is the main way to get your brand noticed nowadays and cheapest also. Give away a gun or several
a tip is to use wildfireapps.com

 

[billairboy]

I played with the numbers in the MA annual report for 2010. I tried to calculate how big the land owners share would have been for the year of 2010. It's a bit guesswork and assumptions so the end result of 21 % ROI is not the real fact , but at least an indication. I guess we in a month time will see the realy numbers.

7 050 253 USD Net player dep.
-1 488 341 Increase of player hold unconsumed peds
= 5 561 912 USD "Decays and fees" in all of EU.


5 005 721 Calyspo share of the revenue 90%. (could be more/less)
2 502 860 PP share 50%
1 251 430 Land holders share, 50 % of PP share

21 Land holders revenue/60 000 Land shares
ROI 20,9% (share/100 USD)

 

[Magyar_Republic]

What MA is doing in a sense is offering a share's system that pays out dividends, but without the legal jargon and without the protection you would normally receive when purchasing regular stocks. They are HURTING so bad for CASH that they couldn't file the IPO in order to get real stocks in real life so they though what a better plan than to sucker the players. This seems kind of illegitimate if you ask me, if the company tanks the stocks are worthless they're 0TT value

Exactly how is this different from the stock market? If a company tanks, files for bankruptcy, etc owners of the stock dont get paid a minimum TT value. They get paid nothing. Anyone that owned stock in AMBAC can tell you that.

Legal rights and protections only extend to consumer fraud, not corporate fiscal meltdown.

 

[SpikeBlack]

Marketing Campaign? Like advertising on the Superbowl or doing a commercial of some sort or something?.... This would've helped you guys out years ago had you done it in the "beta" phase...

~Danimal

might be worth asking themselves why people don't stick around and why many players don't feel they can tell people about EU before spending a huge amount of cash on advertising as well.

 

[millstreet2]

heres some jargain to consider

With 1 million claimed registered accounts (caly numbers)

A recent poll taken within entropia suggests that the majority of players chose these three options when asked how many needs they will buy: 1 , 9 , 100+ deeds. Where the most popular answers.

A maximum of 1 / 150 accounts who buy 9 shares exist mathmaticly that means a mathmatical maximium of 6666 plots exist.

This is not projecting all the people who will buy 1-8, 10+.

The supply / demand could be a very big issue before long. The future revenues and ideas created within the calypso team, and us the investors (voting rights) may go a long way to progress the love for calypso, and peoples love for entropia.

I propose when the share systems really gets going we open a discussion section for citizens who want to offer ideas and suggestions to our calypso team for better improving the current and future of the planet and entropia.

GL my friends.

Your fellow Citizen,

Oboy