Should Sweaters Gang Up and Raise the Price?

[Peezle]

Yeah sweating in a group with diffrent types of players who can give you plenty of advice on how to play a computer game, is just like puting a unarmed man in a ring with a wild bear.

And if you started a new business - today - and worked with the idea you could sell big items by handing out freebies, this would be ok?

If you have something to sell, it is -- by definition - worth something.

Nobody in real life expects something for nothing. EU is just ignorant and worse - it lacks confidence. In my business, I am fair and decent and honest, but you have to pay for it.

Wakey wakey.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

And if you started a new business - today - and worked with the idea you could sell big items by handing out freebies, this would be ok?

You know, there is a reason that games have trials and demos, food can sometimes be tried in the supermarket (at least in Sweden we often have a guy or girl standing there handing out tiny plastic plates with a couple of mouthfulls to sample before buying), tons of other products have test samples (either free or very cheap)...

People want to really try a product before using money on it.



That is how the world works. For example, I buy games if I have played a trial version or an earlier installment in the same series, but I rarely invest 10, 20 or even 50USD in a game I have no idea about except a couple of "official gameplay videos" and a cinematic trailer.

Would I put money into an MMO from some company I have never heard of before getting into the game if all I was allowed to do before doing that was run around (maybe not even that)? No, of course not. But after playing Entropia funded by sweat for some time I was confident enough in my continued enjoyment in the product to invest money into further entertainment, and I still do deposit.

Without sweating, MindArk wouldn't get my monthly deposits, which of course is not that much in the long run, but it adds up if you look at all the players who might not have been here long enough for "becoming" depositors.

 

[Peezle]

You know, there is a reason that games have trials and demos, food can sometimes be tried in the supermarket (at least in Sweden we often have a guy or girl standing there handing out tiny plastic plates with a couple of mouthfulls to sample before buying), tons of other products have test samples (either free or very cheap)...QUOTE=Nighthawk;[2948025/]



Without sweating, MindArk wouldn't get my monthly deposits QUOTE]

Hold on, we have those people too, i think they call it trials.

But you never answer the point, and it is so easy to avoid truth that it has become a science.

You are an expert in evasion.

The point is really very simple. Sweating is not in any other well funded online game. Why is that?

Because they work on their own terms.They have confidence in their own abilty to draw in the crowds.

EU is scared of being a player, while the players make the money and gather the players.

Elitism is not good. It is suicide.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

And if you started a new business - today - and worked with the idea you could sell big items by handing out freebies, this would be ok?

If you have something to sell, it is -- by definition - worth something.

Nobody in real life expects something for nothing. EU is just ignorant and worse - it lacks confidence. In my business, I am fair and decent and honest, but you have to pay for it.

Wakey wakey.

Dont give me any of that crap you know very well that loads of new products give you a chance to sample the good first. Lets face this is a really expencive game if you dont know what your doing you can blow £30 in weekend and have sweet fuck all to show for it. You could buy a new release PC game for that. One thing that appeals to people is that the game is free to play, but to really get any where you will need money.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

But you never answer the point, and it is so easy to avoid truth that it has become a science.

You are an expert in evasion.

If I have not answered your point, it is because you have been so vague that I (and several others) have not been able to see what your point is.

The point is really very simple. Sweating is not in any other well funded online game. Why is that?

Because they (very often) work by giving a 2-4 week free trial, or putting like 25% or something of the game free and 75% for paying customers only (like RuneScape) or put the game free but force people to invest money to have even a chance of keeping up with other players (like most browser games)...

They do not have sweating because they either are a part of a well-known brand (like Star Wars) or because they have other systems providing the same (or a similar) function of sweating.

 

[Peezle]

bigdaddytrim<< Morlock

And when you have a product that is 10 or more years in the making and you still feel the need to hand out freebies to keep them interested, and this is sound?

Are you awake? Do you not know the difference between marketing and business sense?

Bah.


*Sips champagne while others eat shit*

 

[Mega]

Hold on, we have those people too, i think they call it trials.

But you never answer the point, and it is so easy to avoid truth that it has become a science.

You are an expert in evasion.

The point is really very simple. Sweating is not in any other well funded online game. Why is that?

Because they work on their own terms.They have confidence in their own abilty to draw in the crowds.

EU is scared of being a player, while the players make the money and gather the players.

Elitism is not good. It is suicide.

Other MMO's have had to adopt a free trial mode to attract new players:


Level 20:
http://mashable.com/2011/06/29/world-of-warcraft-free/

Level 50:
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/06/lotro-free-to-play/

There's other examples, as well as the completely free to play ones.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

And when you have a product that is 10 or more years in the making and you still feel the need to hand out freebies to keep them interested, and this is sound?

They do not hand out freebies to keep those who have already been ingame for those 10 years interested, they do it to get new customers. Those who have not been in this game already and maybe do not even know it has existed for 10 years.

 

[Peezle]

They do not hand out freebies to keep those who have already been ingame for those 10 years interested, they do it to get new customers. Those who have not been in this game already and maybe do not even know it has existed for 10 years.

This logic is so unsound, and indeed is Mega's on this issue ( though I love him for many other reasons ).

Sweating is built into this game, and everyone has an opinion. But so few ask if it is actually a relic of the old PE and really not needed anymore. If EU is good, if EU is a great concept, we do not need freeloaders anymore.

If it is a struggling concept ( as in 2004 ) we need to beg for participants.

What is it? What should it be?

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

This logic is so unsound, and indeed is Mega's on this issue ( though I love him for many other reasons ).

Sweating is built into this game, and everyone has an opinion. But so few ask if it is actually a relic of the old PE and really not needed anymore. If EU is good, if EU is a great concept, we do not need freeloaders anymore.

If it is a struggling concept ( as in 2004 ) we need to beg for participants.

What is it? What should it be?

Well, gonna leave this discussion now... no point in trying to argue something like this with you since you obviously have a fundamental lack of knowledge in many areas required to discuss this properly (and refuse to acknowledge that despite loads of examples proving you wrong), for example:

1) The benefit of sweaters and sweating to the economy, development and sustainability of the game.
2) Marketing.
3) How to run a business.

 

[slasha]

when someone calls up 2004 in an argument they should really have been playing then (or atleast be right about it) or it just looks like your talking crap , which you are peez . sorry but its true .

 

[Peezle]

when someone calls up 2004 in an argument they should really have been playing then (or atleast be right about it) or it just looks like your talking crap , which you are peez . sorry but its true .

Oh Slasha, I would have imagined better from you than to say such a thing.

Remember, every time anyone talks they are talking crap to someone else. The point is really very simple and I take the OP into mind. Yes, all sweaters should band together and demand a minimum price for sweat.

OR, agree that the whole concept of sweat is stupid and walk away into another game or start paying to play EU.

But to imagine this game needs sweat is weak.

 

[slasha]

the op s idea will never work , it has been tryed before , and 15 ped per k is ...umm...optimistic lol . It will never work because there will always be some who want to unload at the going rate.

peez your options dont cut it . Gang up or forget the whole idea ? Surely your missing some options there.

buyers set the price , ped is the power in this case . Sweat is too easily available to be monopolized or controlled .

 

[Uvas]

the op s idea will never work , it has been tryed before , and 15 ped per k is ...umm...optimistic lol . It will never work because there will always be some who want to unload at the going rate.

peez your options dont cut it . Gang up or forget the whole idea ? Surely your missing some options there.

buyers set the price , ped is the power in this case . Sweat is too easily available to be monopolized or controlled .

Yea, the players who try to hold out for higher price end up with large inventories of sweat that they will have to eventually dump for cheap if they want any peds.

 

[JohnCapital]

But to imagine this game needs sweat is weak.

No this game does not need sweating. MA could decide to drop the sweat factor, and make all TP chips run on TT ME, or the Light ME.

However, MA has decided not to forgo this part of the game. That is their choice on how to run their business.

In the mean time, sweating is a part of this game. It's mostly the main part of the "try it before you buy it" aspect, but some folks use it beyond that. They can "demand" higher prices all they want, but there's a point where the price goes above demand, and it will not sell. With the ever decreasing TP chip usage, and these being the only thing that it's now used for, the drop in price is pretty easy to understand.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

With the ever decreasing TP chip usage, and these being the only thing that it's now used for, the drop in price is pretty easy to understand.

Regular Mind Essence is also used for synch chips (sadly pretty useless, except when sweating, since VU10) and metabolic chips (badly balanced, way too high level requirement for the effect given and can only be used by people with NP30 or bigger).

With a rebalance of synch chips to once again give focus protection 100% of the time instead of like 30%, the addition of more chips that has a chargeup and are actually useful (unlike strike chips) and rebalance of metabolic chips so the smallest are lvl 20 or so at least (can be used with NP20) the useage would probably increase a bit... With the introduction of new buff/crowdcontrol/team chips using ME it could increase even more.

Charlie said new chips are coming "soon, but not before the end of the robot event" so... maybe it'll get better later this year?


EDIT: If they made some MF chips craftable and using sweat it would help as well, at least if it were chips where eco doesn't matter as much (not good for attack chips but buffs and such could work)

 

[Tycoon]

...With the ever decreasing TP chip usage, and these being the only thing that it's now used for, the drop in price is pretty easy to understand.

sweat is also used for some crafting (like welding wire), and to spawn the Hussk!

more uses would be nice!

 

[JohnCapital]

I sit corrected. Sweat has multiple uses, but the primary use for them these days is TP chips, followed by welding wire, spawning special mobs, other BPs, etc.

And yet, with all these, the demand is far outstripped by supply, both actual and potential.

 

[TheOneOmega]

If EU is good, if EU is a great concept, we do not need freeloaders anymore.

If it is a struggling concept ( as in 2004 ) we need to beg for participants.

What is it? What should it be?

I would argue that the existence of the group you're calling freeloaders is PART of what makes EU a great concept. Also, without a doubt, most of said group is helping EU to succeed financially.

Paying MindArk is a two step process. Step A is depositing. Step B is using up the deposited currency (except for a comparably negligent sum of PED which may belong to MindArk when the game dies). A good game might allow players to pay via Step A followed by Step B. A great game may allow this, but might also be dynamic enough allow everyone to perform Step B, even those unwilling or unable to perform Step A.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

The point is really very simple. Sweating is not in any other well funded online game. Why is that?

Actually my first MMO, ultima online I would spend many hours a day standing in one spot. I would chop down trees, sell the lumber and gain strength.

In warcraft (wow), I would stand in once place and fish.

In many other games I have preformed mindless repetitive tasks for fun or profit...sounds like sweating to me.(well not the profit so much )

T

Sweating is built into this game, and everyone has an opinion. But so few ask if it is actually a relic of the old PE and really not needed anymore. If EU is good, if EU is a great concept, we do not need freeloaders anymore.

First of all sweaters are not "freeloaders" even if they manage to make a few ped, how many sweaters make withdraws? its recycled into the system 99% of the time. (I have made 1 sweat withdraw in 2009 just to prove it could be done I think I am the 1%) and that took me a few months even at 5/k a few months to make 100$ lol nobody is doing this to get rich.

sweating is FUN that's enough reason to keep it. any true freeloaders who happen to sweat, would simply move to auction sniping or twin peaks scams. might as well keep them busy

AFK sweating FTW
/pos 72461,78170

 

[Anna Ivanhoe]

To be honest it will only be useless to raise prices as it wont change the situation. The only way to raise the prices fair and square, is to make the sweat USEFULL. Only MA can make it usefull, and the fact that they made mindforce chips that uses "synthetic mindforce" is a real shame :/

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

that they made mindforce chips that uses "synthetic mindforce" is a real shame :/

The chips that uses SME is attack and heal chips. Without that, they would be useless and too few people would use MindForce for sweat price to be higher anyways.