I need help to figurate out about the entropia population growing

[Naithen]

If you looked at the times i have played since 2003 you would see verying degrees of participation in the Univese of Entropia going from non stop to very little for months on end.
Since you dont pay unless you play theres no cost if you stay away from the game for long periods of time.And picking things up when u return is easy.So its impossible to put a number on player participation.New players join everyday you can find them easy enough at Nea's or Limnadium district.

 

[Robin]

I recently hit level 20 prospector and got a random invite by a mentor whos played for 6 month. I accepted but havent seen the guy since!

I guess alot of these mentors are just people trying to bag a lot of newbs to make them a few free ped ? Is this even relevant to Nighthawks post? probably not but I wanted to share the thought with you guys

You should have added me as a mentor..lvl 56 prospecting and taking disciples who are only interested in mining ...I can hunt but prefer not to...I'm not the best miner but I try hard and mine alot..

 

[valentin]

What i know of the game it has always been about 4000 - 5000 ppl who is active here.

 

[Dr.D.C.]

What i know of the game it has always been about 4000 - 5000 ppl who is active here.

best answer so far

 

[wizz]

What i know of the game it has always been about 4000 - 5000 ppl who is active here.

Just wondering, on what is this based?

 

[valentin]

Just wondering, on what is this based?

MA:s word just before VU:10.0

 

[MegaDeth]

MA:s word just before VU:10.0

there are far fewer people now then before vu 10.0

 

[Dr.D.C.]

there are far fewer people now then before vu 10.0

also this is real, but how to major that?

 

[ruslan]

I say it might be a good idea to trust your trader friend. If anything, he's more sensitive to subtle fluctuations in supply/demand side.

I don't think there's any way to tell anything from the limited chunk of auction data that you have. It would only tell you how much stuff has unreasonable buyouts.

I mean it does show a suppressed supply, but there could be different reasons for that.
One is high demand, the other is low supply.

Aggregate demand(Mark-up) and Sale Volume should be a good indicator of where things are moving towards.




Maybe.

 

[Steve_saber]

I don't think we have less players, and if we have, not by much. The world have become much bigger in four years with more planets and more land areas.

you're like the watch on the titanic calling all clear and clean sailing just before the collision and the shit hit the fan.

 

[Neil Stockton]

What i know of the game it has always been about 4000 - 5000 ppl who is active here.

MA says that "several thousand" players are land deed holders. Find the proportion of land deed owners to non-owners and you know approximately how many people are active players. Note that land deed holders may tend to be online longer than more casual players, so you can't just go to Twins and take a poll... or even look at your friend list and ask how many own deeds, that would be skewed too. And a forum poll might not be real accurate either, since the majority of players don't use the forums. Though those polls would give us some info to think about.

What you could do is watch a sampling point like a revive terminal somewhere for a long time, like a whole day, and ask everyone who revives there whether they own land deeds. Keep track of names so you don't count people twice. Do it for several outpost revives (covering different mob levels). Then multiply your ratio by "several thousand" and you have an idea how many active players there are. If you wanted to be more accurate, you could also ask them the amount of time they spend online per day. Take the average online time for owners vs. non-owners and use that difference to increase the accuracy of the result.

I'd not be surprised if only 10% of active players own land deeds. That ratio would make 20-30 thousand active players. By active, I'd say players who log in a minimum of once a week. Of course, there are many, many players in hibernation mode.

 

[billairboy]

you're like the watch on the titanic calling all clear and clean sailing just before the collision and the shit hit the fan.

Oh? Well, you look at the amount of trade done on things like metal residues and other basic trading items, you can see that the amount of players can't be much lower than when the player base was on "max". Do you have any proff that we are much fewer today? It's possible we have fewer active player compared when it was on "max", but i don't believe that.

 

[Retrac]

There is a better way to calculate how well this game is doing - or how poorly

Every week Planet Calypso Pays out 1/2 of its gross revenues (not including items sold by estate broker).

Every week this is generally approx 4Ped/CLD
So 60,000CLD * 4PED/CLD * 10PED/1USD = $24,000USD/Week for Planet Calypso and 24,000USD/week for the CLD Holders and 48,000USD/week for Mindark.

So, as Calypso is effectively a "wholly owned subsidiary", effectively MA is pocketting $72,000USD/week for Decay and auction fees and the like.
In addition they get all the ammo sales/etc that they can choose to keep or payout in loots.

If this number stays relatively stable over time you can bet the population is staying stable over time. If it decreases, that would mean less people actively participating, and if it increases, more are participating or those that are participating are participating more.
So all you need to do is read the ROI Tracker thread over a long period of time and you will have your answer (even if any of my loot interpretations are not entirely accurate )

 

[Infinity01]

Every week Planet Calypso Pays out 1/2 of its gross revenues (not including items sold by estate broker).

Every week this is generally approx 4Ped/CLD
So 60,000CLD * 4PED/CLD * 10PED/1USD = $24,000USD/Week for Planet Calypso and 24,000USD/week for the CLD Holders and 48,000USD/week for Mindark.

So, as Calypso is effectively a "wholly owned subsidiary", effectively MA is pocketting $72,000USD/week for Decay and auction fees and the like.
In addition they get all the ammo sales/etc that they can choose to keep or payout in loots.

If this number stays relatively stable over time you can bet the population is staying stable over time. If it decreases, that would mean less people actively participating, and if it increases, more are participating or those that are participating are participating more.
So all you need to do is read the ROI Tracker thread over a long period of time and you will have your answer (even if any of my loot interpretations are not entirely accurate )

This is the best metric we have now!

............and activities are more important than total number of active players.
It's highly unlikely that a sustained steady increase (a trend and not wk to wk fluctuations) in ROI would be from increase activites of active players.... rather it'd reflect increase in total caly population.

However, this will be compounded by migration of a large player base to Cyrene!

 

[Dr.D.C.]

Every week Planet Calypso Pays out 1/2 of its gross revenues (not including items sold by estate broker).

Every week this is generally approx 4Ped/CLD
So 60,000CLD * 4PED/CLD * 10PED/1USD = $24,000USD/Week for Planet Calypso and 24,000USD/week for the CLD Holders and 48,000USD/week for Mindark.

So, as Calypso is effectively a "wholly owned subsidiary", effectively MA is pocketting $72,000USD/week for Decay and auction fees and the like.
In addition they get all the ammo sales/etc that they can choose to keep or payout in loots.

If this number stays relatively stable over time you can bet the population is staying stable over time. If it decreases, that would mean less people actively participating, and if it increases, more are participating or those that are participating are participating more.
So all you need to do is read the ROI Tracker thread over a long period of time and you will have your answer (even if any of my loot interpretations are not entirely accurate )

take it easy, your thinking is right but MA can pay the ROI and make debts with a RL bank or especially in this period, it can pay the ROI with the same money gained selling the deeds. Thx to strategy like that today we are in global regression. For this reason i don t think that your suggestion is adequate.

 

[RickEngland]

Very hard to measure active population, I tend to look at tracker for activity based on number of hunters globaling.

So as an example I'm ranked today 338 out of 3648 other avatars that have recorded a global in the last 30 days.

Now only a few weeks ago this was 3100
Previous to that in the 2000's

So it would appear there is more activity and the number is growing.

Obviously this will not show numbers of players not globaling, such as very new starters, or few ped burners. But its an indicator.

Now that deeds are all sold, I expect activity to pick up again. Not to mention cyrene is online on 1st May.

Rick

ps: Does my profile pic load? just added it.

 

[Retrac]

You would not believe anything they did

take it easy, your thinking is right but MA can pay the ROI and make debts with a RL bank or especially in this period, it can pay the ROI with the same money gained selling the deeds. Thx to strategy like that today we are in global regression. For this reason i don t think that your suggestion is adequate.

LOL.
Actually, They cannot do that...
The reason is because that is Fraud, and not even they are stupid enough to go there.
Since they tied the return to a very specific metric and traded it as such (and sold some (or a majority) of the CLDs outside of the game system) That would be a very real legal case (not tied to the EULA) against them.

If you cannot trust the money that they are paying, you definately would not trust a little counter below the login like they have in other games which you have absolutely no way to verify.

The question of how to measure population trends is a good one, and this metric is the only thing you have that actually tells you what is happening in terms of activity, and it is only for one planet. So even this metric is flawed for the overall universe, but not because MA is fixing the books... I can assure you of that.

 

[Dr.D.C.]

LOL.
Actually, They cannot do that...
The reason is because that is Fraud, and not even they are stupid enough to go there.
Since they tied the return to a very specific metric and traded it as such (and sold some (or a majority) of the CLDs outside of the game system) That would be a very real legal case (not tied to the EULA) against them.

If you cannot trust the money that they are paying, you definately would not trust a little counter below the login like they have in other games which you have absolutely no way to verify.

The question of how to measure population trends is a good one, and this metric is the only thing you have that actually tells you what is happening in terms of activity, and it is only for one planet. So even this metric is flawed for the overall universe, but not because MA is fixing the books... I can assure you of that.

well buddy i have some doubts about. Let consider the MA annual reports: since at least 3/4 years MA was in negative , if i well remember. And you know i have this feeling that things are not doing well for MA, i mean a lot investments in C2, space, planets but still the game doesn t explode, doesn t grow, bad review around etcetc. So from where are they taking the money to pay you land owners/????? well or:
------- from our deposit/bad = we are paying with our bad loot return the ROI. With the same money MA was used to pay for the developing of the game. It is like we pay the lands 2 times actually, one when we brought them and a second one to pay the ROI. That this is ok, but considering the game is not growing MA need more and more our money/bad loot.
------or they take those money from some obscure economical move. That really scare about the game sustainability.

Also for that i m so interested about the number of players in entropia, better then this the trend overtime.

 

[valentin]

The big problem with MA is That They Are retarded, everything is about creating an illusion of making people happy and to get the stay in the game.

Then you have to ask why they ppl are here ---> easy.... to play the game, it means that people should be in here and be active and not just be beside and watch on the other hand needs MA to earn money.

The solution is so, to maintain a high stimulus amongst the players and make money, MA should do the contrary of what they're doing today.
How the game look today the player puts in money ( lets say 1000$ ) the player plays hardcore 1 week and then he has to look at the game for the rest of the month the player lost $ 1000 and become bored and angry because the money was soon over and he was watching for the rest of the month.

What has MA created here --> 1000$ and a unhappy player -- not good.

MA should do that the player could play the whole month for this ($ 1,000) what would that create --> 1000$ to MA and a stimulated and happy player who are motivated to invest more on the game both in the game and outside of the game because it becomes a (win - win situation) for both the MA and the player.

MA gets the 1000$ and the player gets the stimulation --> so MA will get a happy player, and a happy player talks good about the game outside in real wold and increases the chance for MA to get more players and the player him self are more positive to input even more money to the game.

So remove your fingers from your ass and try to create positive players to the game, I'm sure that my alternative is not the best but you have to try to start to do more then just better graphics and nerfs.

 

[valentin]

I MA dont understand me.......

Explaining simple ... Think of us as drug addicts, so do not play the dealer when you are supplier.

 

[Dr.D.C.]

LOL.
Actually, They cannot do that...
The reason is because that is Fraud, and not even they are stupid enough to go there.
Since they tied the return to a very specific metric and traded it as such (and sold some (or a majority) of the CLDs outside of the game system) That would be a very real legal case (not tied to the EULA) against them.

moreover you right if i buy apple bonds.......... but hey those land deeds have no any legal value. Tomorrow MA can just say"guys no more money here" and voila!

DC

 

[Kerham]

From the activity on 1k+ hp mobs, the population MUST be considerably higher than in, say, 2006. I do not care very much about such issues tho, I want EU to be popular and all that, but when all things said & done, it resisted more than 90% of mmorpgs out there and it has its own "style". Also, the size of population must be in tune with MA's server park size, else is difficult, with consequences way more important than some lag in whatever wow server.

Their next step would be some solid influx of money in order to increase their server park and some sound marketing in order to bring in more players. However, in these times, capital is a sensible issue for companies way larger than Mindark.

So I'd say that for next 2-3 years their aim should be slow expansion with whatever population the new partners can bring in and solidify what they have now, in terms of gameplay, bugs etc.

It must be said that the game evolved tremendously in these 7 years I've been playing and present-days systems and universe offer hell of alot more opportunities and routes of gameplay than back then. Also, should be noted the major improvements/innovations in what regards mentoring/questing/mining.

EU does not feel anymore as an unfinished game and that's maybe the best gain of the past few years.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

moreover you right if i buy apple bonds.......... but hey those land deeds have no any legal value. Tomorrow MA can just say"guys no more money here" and voila!

DC

You're confusing Par Value of a company with value of a stock.

Par Value is the minimum value a stock must maintain as stated by the company, in order to sell/issue shares. In most stocks this is of no consequence, as the values are directly tied to corporate profits. Par Value is only of consequence in bonds.

A company making no money has an effective stock value of zero, though speculation may drive that value up.

A bankrupt company which once sold stock at $100 a share now has an effective share value of zero, though speculation may drive that value up.

In short, stocks themselves always have an effective value of zero, though profits and speculation may drive that value up.

There is no legal value attached to any stock. There are no safeguards, nor federal insurers, who will protect you if your stock value plummets. Bonds are insured and have a minimum value with legal obligation. Stocks are not, and do not.

How this relates to Calypso shares is simple: Calypso Shares are in short just as legal and viable as any other share. A company can (and many do) sell shares of themselves to raise money long before going public. It's safe to say this is what MindArk has done. The difference is we dont know the real terms and limitations of our shares yet. In a corporate purchase those terms are laid out in the charter prior to any sort of share distribution.

 

[wizz]

From the activity on 1k+ hp mobs, the population MUST be considerably higher than in, say, 2006.

Maybe because the noobs from 2006 aren't noobs any more and can now easily kill 1000hp mobs?

The game has matured and so did it's player base.

 

[Karmic]

Is this your data that ignores buyouts meaning you don't count me or a significant number of other people at all?

 

[valentin]

Maybe because the noobs from 2006 aren't noobs any more and can now easily kill 1000hp mobs?

The game has matured and so did it's player base.

Yes thats true because back in 2006 the mobs with a hp who was at 1000 hp gave ok loot now days it is not even have a value to look at the mob, and yes most of the players from 2006 has more skills who makes the mob easy to kill.

 

[Dr.D.C.]

Is this your data that ignores buyouts meaning you don't count me or a significant number of other people at all?

yup
but my hypothesis is that the number of offers/auction is more or less constant (and very limited). Let say that the auction/format are the 1??3?? 5%? of the whole offers and this number maybe change day by day but probably the % over time is not different.
So let say that the 2% of the offers are auction format (so the other 98% are buy now, order etcetc). If the whole population overtime grow than the whole offers in the auction grow too. We still have the 2% of auction format, but the absolute number of the 2% should grow over time according with the population grow. Looking at my data i don t see any change overtime.
My theory is that in the last few years despite space and new planets the Eu population is not growing at all. The absence of a official players counter support that too.
DC

 

[Karmic]

yup
but my hypothesis is that the number of offers/auction is more or less constant (and very limited). Let say that the auction/format are the 1??3?? 5%? of the whole offers and this number maybe change day by day but probably the % over time is not different.
So let say that the 2% of the offers are auction format (so the other 98% are buy now, order etcetc). If the whole population overtime grow than the whole offers in the auction grow too. We still have the 2% of auction format, but the absolute number of the 2% should grow over time according with the population grow. Looking at my data i don t see any change overtime.
My theory is that in the last few years despite space and new planets the Eu population is not growing at all. The absence of a official players counter support that too.
DC

to dig deeper:
Do you have any data to show that the number of non-buy out auctions vs the buy outs is stable every day or is that a guess? Can you show the full year? Can you explain the two giant dips?


Random question: How does the absence of an official player counter support anything? Most MMOs took those away a long time ago. Did Entropia have a counter once that was removed? I don't remember one as long as I've been playing but did they have one before that?

 

[Dr.D.C.]

to dig deeper:
Do you have any data to show that the number of non-buy out auctions vs the buy outs is stable every day or is that a guess? Can you show the full year? Can you explain the two giant dips?


Random question: How does the absence of an official player counter support anything? Most MMOs took those away a long time ago. Did Entropia have a counter once that was removed? I don't remember one as long as I've been playing but did they have one before that?

yes you can calculate this by day, week, month, 3 months, 6months, and year, (but also 3 and 5 years but we are not around since so long), jusclick here go down at the graph and you can found the relative options in purple.

random answer. I don t remember any counter in entropia and is true many other MMO haven t. But maybe in a MMO that is also a RCE (quite unique situation) where people invest their money not just shooting a mob but also buying a land, mall, etcetc should be opportune.

 

[MachineLife]

The largest number of people on my FL that were on line at one time in the last 2 years was 5 - everyone has quit or basically stopped playing due disgustingly bad loot returns - I think you can figure out what I think about "growth" in this game