Developer-Notes--3

[Ludvig|MindArk]

...

...

...

Alright, since you three obviously have not understood what I have been telling you so many times (and, as usual, attack me for it), here is a short summary:


Whining and Trolling:
- Posting negative (often excessively so for what the situation might demand, and often in a very insulting manner) statements without providing any proof or even valid arguments to back them up. One example of this is saying that MindArk 10 years ago added some uneco guns to the game simply to screw the players over, without providing any argument as to why they would do such a thing.

- Accuse anyone that says you are a whiner of either lying or ignoring facts and realism (despite your statement being utterly unrealistic and no proof or facts having been presented whatsoever).

- Attacking anyone that posts any kind of proof, fact or argument that counters your own belief.

- Defend your whining by claiming you are only realistic and/or justified in your comments despite this not being even close to the case.

- Even if a majority says you and/or your statement is wrong (no matter how kindly they say so), attack them and insult them as much as possible.


How to complain in a reasonable manner:
- First, make sure the situation actually warrants negativity.

- If it does, post your negative comment in a non-threatening and non-insulting way. Explain why you feel this way.

- If you are accusing someone (for example MindArk or another player) of something, provide facts, proof or at least a valid argument of why you believe this.

- In case you wish to assist in solving a problem, present a suggestion for a solution or an alternative. Make sure to stay within realistic and reasonable borders.

- When presented with counterarguments more valid than your arguments, admit that you are wrong. If you do not accept the counterarguments as more valid, tell the other person why this is in a calm and constructive manner.

- Do not start insulting people simply because they hold a different belief than you.

- Do not start calling people fanboys or such simply because they do not agree with your views.





Now, if you follow these simple rules for posting in a constructive and intelligent manner, you will find that your negative comments actually have a much larger chance of being listened to and possibly fixed {removed}

 

[Pyhä Antero]

- Even if a majority says you and/or your statement is wrong (no matter how kindly they say so), attack them and insult them as much as possible.

Whining about whining. {removed}

- Posting negative (often excessively so for what the situation might demand, and often in a very insulting manner) statements without providing any proof or even valid arguments to back them up. One example of this is saying that MindArk 10 years ago added some uneco guns to the game simply to screw the players over, without providing any argument as to why they would do such a thing.

If I am right, you're referring that you have valid arguments? Wait a second, are you trolling me?

- Accuse anyone that says you are a whiner of either lying or ignoring facts and realism (despite your statement being utterly unrealistic and no proof or facts having been presented whatsoever).

Do you know what is the truth? Here's a simple fact to you: There's no truth. All the truths are made in humans' mind.

- Attacking anyone that posts any kind of proof, fact or argument that counters your own belief.

This is exactly same thing what you do at the moment.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Whining about whining. {removed}

1) It is not whining, it is a quite constructive post... Thank you for admitting to whining though
{removed}

Do you know what is the truth? Here's a simple fact to you: There's no truth. All the truths are made in humans' mind.

The truth is that there is no truth, yes, but you should still make an effort to present why your truth is what you see as the truth.

This is exactly same thing what you do at the moment.

Oh really, I am? then by all means, please show me where the "proof, fact or argument" I am attacking is... because there is none.

 

[rastamannen]

Have a beer and enjoy the weather or something

 

[Pyhä Antero]

3) "Leave us"? It sounds like you are implying that I follow you around or something, when the reality is that you and some others often attack me

Take a look into your post history, it's you who keeps neg repping me, and spreading the fanboyism.


Actually, I don't know if I am being trolled, as I receive neg rep from you, stating a reason that I don't understand words which I am using. And when I take a look into it, there's like 2 sentences.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Have a beer and enjoy the weather or something

I really wish I could, but I have a lame cold and I am going to be confined to the back of a car for 3 hours

Take a look into your post history, it's you who keeps neg repping me, and spreading the fanboyism.


Actually, I don't know if I am being trolled, as I receive neg rep from you, stating a reason that I don't understand words which I am using. And when I take a look into it, there's like 2 sentences.

You just used that word again

Fanboy - A person that defends a game, company or product all the time no matter which flaws they have.



However, you (and some others) use it any time someone counters one (or several) of your whiny comments, ignoring the fact that the person in question (and it is not just me being called this) has actually complained about other things in the past.

I think the most hilarious one was when Trina complained about me "whining about the game" and "being a fanboy" in the same sentence

 

[Pyhä Antero]

You just used that word again

Fanboy - A person that defends a game, company or product all the time no matter which flaws they have.

Sorry, but what has been the thing what you have complained in actions of Mindark? Mindforce doesn't count, as it has nothing to do with Mindark's business model in a bigger picture, it's just a profession among others.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Sorry, but what has been the thing what you have complained in actions of Mindark? Mindforce doesn't count, as it has nothing to do with Mindark's business model in a bigger picture, it's just a profession among others.

Tsk, now you are just grasping for straws. That argument is ridiculus, one of the four main professions does not count? Truly?

You do realize that MindForce as a system is developed (and even more importantly, balanced) by MindArk before the PP designs it?


Very well, if that "does not count", then what does? Complaining about the newbie experience? The loot balancing? Item drop rates? Slow taming development?

You can not simply change the rules of "what counts" because you are wrong

 

[Pyhä Antero]

Tsk, now you are just grasping for straws. That argument is ridiculus, one of the four main professions does not count? Truly?

You do realize that MindForce as a system is developed (and even more importantly, balanced) by MindArk before the PP designs it?


Very well, if that "does not count", then what does? Complaining about the newbie experience? The loot balancing? Item drop rates? Slow taming development?

You can not simply change the rules of "what counts" because you are wrong

I only meant that...

If you were "balancing" Mindforce, there wouldn't be a point for any other profession. And sadly, Mindark is almost as bad as you in balancing things from the economy's point of view.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

I only meant that...

If you were "balancing" Mindforce, there wouldn't be a point for any other profession. And sadly, Mindark is almost as bad as you in balancing things from the economy's point of view.

Really? You know that you have lost the discussion so you completely change the subject to something unrelated?

I ask again, what counts?

 

[Pyhä Antero]

Really? You know that you have lost the discussion so you completely change the subject to something unrelated?

I ask again, what counts?

Nothing, we have a strict etiquette in our club, and you can't join.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Nothing, we have a strict etiquette in our club, and you can't join.

So in other words, you are just one more whiner that hoped that a couple of quick attacks and insults would deter me from replying, or perhaps as a futile attempt to make me lose my cool? However, in reality, you have no arguments to back what you post up with and you never had anything to come with other than the usual that has come to be expected from you.

Pathetic.

 

[valentin]

Really? You know that you have lost the discussion so you completely change the subject to something unrelated?

I ask again, what counts?

This....

The most recent invented from MA is "fair" loot so dont look at "balanced" or dynamic" loot --> its "fair" loot ( just wondering how MA interpret this with "fair" loot ).

 

[Pyhä Antero]

So in other words, you are just one more whiner that hoped that a couple of quick attacks and insults would deter me from replying, or perhaps as a futile attempt to make me lose my cool? However, in reality, you have no arguments to back what you post up with and you never had anything to come with other than the usual that has come to be expected from you.

Pathetic.

I have no intentions to continue this name calling competition. But if you can't see my arguments, to what are you replying?

 

[PaulCrystal]

I have no intentions to continue this name calling competition. But if you can't see my arguments, to what are you replying?

I'm sorry to interrupt, but having read your posts twice I have not been able to find any arguments of yours. Would you please be so kind as to sum up your argument in a few words and give a rationale for it?

 

[Pyhä Antero]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but having read your posts twice I have not been able to find any arguments of yours. Would you please be so kind as to sum up your argument in a few words and give a rationale for it?

Start from page 33. My argument: "I'm sceptic or more likely realistic." Nighthawk blames me being negative, which I am not. Now my argument to you is a rhetorical question: "Are you a fanboy or just can't read?"

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

I have no intentions to continue this name calling competition.

Oh please, you have nothing to bring to the discussion so you go for the oldest and most transparent "trying to make self look better" trick ever?

But if you can't see my arguments, to what are you replying?

You have arguments, they simply are not valid for this discussion. Other than that, I am replying to your insults, attacks, attempts at shifting the focus of the discussion, off topic comments and some random rambling.

 

[Pyhä Antero]

You have arguments, they simply are not valid for this discussion. Other than that, I am replying to your insults, attacks, attempts at shifting the focus of the discussion, off topic comments and some random rambling.

Oh Lord, on page 34 you made the rules which is valid and which is not? And as a matter of fact, which keeps me in this topic is that you keep replying to me making false accusations.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Oh Lord, on page 34 you made the rules which is valid and which is not? And as a matter of fact, which keeps me in this topic is that you keep replying to me making false accusations.

Really, false accusations? Please, do tell me, which "false accusations" have I made against you?

If you can show me one and it is indeed false, I shall apologize for it... However, I find it unlikely that you will.



PS: Attacking PaulCrystal for no reason does not exactly help you, and neither does negrepping me

 

[Pyhä Antero]

Really, false accusations? Please, do tell me, which "false accusations" have I made against you?

If you can show me one and it is indeed false, I shall apologize for it... However, I find it unlikely that you will.



PS: Attacking PaulCrystal for no reason does not exactly help you, and neither does negrepping me

In the post #331, where you attack towards me, wizzszz and SunnyS. In earlier, SunnyS made very good post about being a sceptic or a realist, which I already said that I am. In the post #331 tho, you Nighthawk blame us of whining and trolling, which I don't agree any of us doing. Even wizzszz has always some point in his posts, which everyone always disregards, because he happens to be wizzszz and they don't like his person. Although, when you start to blame him, me or who ever it happens to be, there's no point making own rules as you did, and expect everyone else to follow them.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

In the post #331, where you attack towards me, wizzszz and SunnyS.

No, I defended myself when the three of you tried to gang up on me.

Anyways, you have not given a real answer. To say that you are a whiner and a troll are not false accusations, but rather the truth. You are also rude and insult people for no reason, attack those whose view differs from your own. You call people fanboy without even knowing the meaning of the word (or simply try to change the rules when proven wrong), give no facts, proof or valid arguments for most of your claims and try to change the focus/topic of the discussiin when you are losing.

All of this is fact. You may not see it as the truth yourself, but that is how it is. That is how a lot of people see you.

Accept it and improve, or keeping being whiny and non-constructive. Your choice.

 

[Pyhä Antero]

No, I defended myself when the three of you tried to gang up on me.

Anyways, you have not given a real answer. To say that you are a whiner and a troll are not false accusations, but rather the truth. You are also rude and insult people for no reason, attack those whose view differs from your own. You call people fanboy without even knowing the meaning of the word (or simply try to change the rules when proven wrong), give no facts, proof or valid arguments for most of your claims and try to change the focus/topic of the discussiin when you are losing.

All of this is fact. You may not see it as the truth yourself, but that is how it is. That is how a lot of people see you.

Accept it and improve, or keeping being whiny and non-constructive. Your choice.

3 of us tried to gang you up? And you keep accusing wizzszz about paranoia? And, I'm not being to rude to anybody (expect a few occasions, which I have apologized). And I know meaning of the word fanboy (and the post which I was referring, which you neg repped with that comment, didn't even contain that word). There's no such things like facts, and valid arguments. In communication some things are just more about rhetoric. And, one thing for sure, there's no losing in rhetorical battle.

I have an offer to you: you don't reply to me, I don't reply to you.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

I have offer to you: you don't reply to me, I don't reply to you. If you don't take this offer I'll try to harash you to the end of the world.

Are you threatening me, {removed}?

Very well, I shall make you a counteroffer. You put me on your ignore list and never mention that again {removed}

 

[rastamannen]

 

[Ace Flyster]

@ wisszss a clarification please

I was going to reply, but then thought i would ask a question first.....just so we are talking the same discussion

Please pick one or two for that is closest to your opinion:

Do you believe any of the following?

1) Uneco = less % tt return than being eco?
2) Loot is fixed based on mob health? (i.e. doesnt matter what you use or how you kill a mob, the loot is fixed)

If the answer is no to both, please supply your opinion, one small sentance like mine would be nice R

Rgds

Ace

 

[remontoire]

Does this thread have any use any more ? Maybe it should be locked? The only real discussion seems to be between Ace and wisszss who could probably start a separate thread for it...

 

[Silvia Universe]

+ Rep.

And some ppl on this forum should really get a life {removed}.

Keeps me wondering why you guys are still allowed to post on this forum.

If you have so much scepticism toward this game I wonder what your motivation is to come on the forum justifiying all your stupid comments towards ppl who still enjoy this game.

 

[mastermesh]

All of this is fact. You may not see it as the truth yourself, but that is how it is. That is how a lot of people see you.

A lie can be a fact. It's not a true fact, but it can be a fact nevertheless.

 

[Pyhä Antero]

If you have so much scepticism toward this game I wonder what your motivation is to come on the forum justifiying all your stupid comments towards ppl who still enjoy this game.

I'm a (paying) customer, which saw potential in this game in 2005.

 

[Silvia Universe]

I'm a (paying) customer, which saw potential in this game in 2005.

Yeah and obviously you lost that idea of potential somewhere along the way, I suggest you go find it back and leave others alone or go play another game if you cannot enjoy it anymore.