Help: Give me a reason to go UL

[ermik]

OK, been going on and off for awhile about this one.

Whats the reason to go UL, why try to find a UL SIB weapon with my name on it?

I hunt fairly little compared to many, maybe a couple of 1000 peds per week cycled ( more in some periods, less in others )

The only reason would be if tt returns over time was based on tt cost to kill a mob, rather than dmg cost to kill.

availability is only an issue if you hunt alot imo, and cant handle beeing forced to change setup from time to time based on what L items give good dmg/pec for the buck at that given time.

Opinions , please.

cheers

ermik

 

[Falagor]

(...)
The only reason would be if tt returns over time was based on tt cost to kill a mob, rather than dmg cost to kill.
(...)

This... .

Test it yourself is best advice i can give you becasue words will not convince you about this anyway.

Falagor

 

[Art Jennifer]

MiniM- I think thats the name did a test on their stream. He/she pumped a load of ped into the same Prot

The loot was no different.

The video is not up anymore



If thats what you mean when you say. (if not then my bad)

The only reason would be if tt returns over time was based on tt cost to kill a mob, rather than dmg cost to kill.

Although if this test was 100% then it would show that loot wasn't based on either of these.

More likely to be set to HP on mob, hence where being Eco comes in.


So I say, whatever is in your price range and whichever is the most eco. Dmg/pec and reduces other costs, such as armor decay etc. Is the weapon you should pick.

 

[Dollymaus]

The only reason would be if tt returns over time was based on tt cost to kill a mob, rather than dmg cost to kill.

this

availability is only an issue if you hunt alot imo

Only at Caly, at all other planets its often difficult to get the next gun at a good price

 

[aridash]

The only reason would be if tt returns over time was based on tt cost to kill a mob, rather than dmg cost to kill.

there's a difference? you think MA take account of your weapon's markup that you paid for? they adjust the base line decay of L to allow for some markup, which may put a L choice back to around same eco as its UL equivilent. or not, depends on the market.

theres the reason for UL, stability and known quantities. with low turnover there is less benefits though. on very low turnover/casual play the benefit is always having weapon ready, no login, muck about in auction etc., just go shoot.

 

[Supertramp]

...
Whats the reason to go UL, why try to find a UL SIB weapon with my name on it?
...

I cant say for you, but having an UL wepon prevents me to hunt bigger animals than ~500 hp (Riker UL2)
This ensures a total stability of my weekly costs, as I also have a limited amount of time to play

Seeing the tier increase is also fun if you like see the things progressing.

 

[ermik]

there's a difference? you think MA take account of your weapon's markup that you paid for? they adjust the base line decay of L to allow for some markup, which may put a L choice back to around same eco as its UL equivilent. or not, depends on the market.

ofcourse its a difference, there are cheaper and more expensive ways to spend 1000 points of damage depending on what setup you use. If system returns loot based on DMG or TT is a highly valid and interesting difference.

 

[Artrat]

ofcourse its a difference, there are cheaper and more expensive ways to spend 1000 points of damage depending on what setup you use. If system returns loot based on DMG or TT is a highly valid and interesting difference.

Personally I think it's based on damage not on TT, but I do think there is still a case for UL sib. The newer ones seem to share the same eco as the L counterparts, and for a lot of the older ones, their L versions are no longer available. Plus there is the convenience factor. And the tiering factor. I'm currently doing the Aurli mission with X1 (L), and it does get really annoying having my dps drop by 20-30% every time I get a new gun.

I have UL sib tagger, MF chips and swords, mostly because they are reasonable affordable. My long-term goal is to aquire a decent high-dps UL sib pistol or rifle.

 

[minim]

MiniM- I think thats the name did a test on their stream. He/she pumped a load of ped into the same Prot

The loot was no different.

The video is not up anymore



If thats what you mean when you say. (if not then my bad)




Although if this test was 100% then it would show that loot wasn't based on either of these.

More likely to be set to HP on mob, hence where being Eco comes in.


So I say, whatever is in your price range and whichever is the most eco. Dmg/pec and reduces other costs, such as armor decay etc. Is the weapon you should pick.

I did pump 150ped into a proteron provider just to do a test again. Before this was compansated, now it isn't.

 

[Mordrell]

I am kinda torn about this atm too, I would like to remove the ped wasted on weapon markup but finding a weapon that will suit my needs is incredibly tough.

Atm I loot enough markup to cover my tt loss, the mu spent on weapon and to make a small profit. Having an ul weapon I will be spending no more peds in mu and increase my profit margin.

Because of the way L weapons are looted I will need an ul gun in the highest dps range that I currently use 60-70dps. The L weapons looted from the bigger mobs are then suitable for use on the smaller mobs etc. The problem is that an ul weapon that will suit my needs will probably cost in excess of 30k ped, and that is a large investment to make.

 

[aridash]

ofcourse its a difference, there are cheaper and more expensive ways to spend 1000 points of damage depending on what setup you use. If system returns loot based on DMG or TT is a highly valid and interesting difference.

ah, you mean TT vs DMG per pec. well, i subscribe to the notion returns have to be calculated on TT basis, which means dmg/pec is meaningful but simple. calculating returns on the basis of your personal eco would be over complicated, and how to account for teaming?

 

[toad]

Im doing the aurli iron mission right now, i started with mod merc tier 5 fully enhanced and lately i have used unlimited corrosive attack nanochip VIII, i noticed a higher average loot with the corrosive chip than fully enhanced mod merc so i think low dps is compensated to some degree but since i have not done any logs on it i have no proof.

 

[Artrat]

ah, you mean TT vs DMG per pec. well, i subscribe to the notion returns have to be calculated on TT basis, which means dmg/pec is meaningful but simple. calculating returns on the basis of your personal eco would be over complicated, and how to account for teaming?

Nobody seems to get the damage model, it's really not that complicated, less so than TT.

Simply put, the system pays out based on some multiple of the the total damage recieved by the creature. The cost to cause the damage does not have to be known by the system, and team loot is easily handled by percentage of damage done. Intuitively, this system would be the simplest to implement.

 

[Jimmy B]

I did pump 150ped into a proteron provider just to do a test again. Before this was compansated, now it isn't.

Interesting find, did you make a thread on it?

 

[minim]

Im doing the aurli iron mission right now, i started with mod merc tier 5 fully enhanced and lately i have used unlimited corrosive attack nanochip VIII, i noticed a higher average loot with the corrosive chip than fully enhanced mod merc so i think low dps is compensated to some degree but since i have not done any logs on it i have no proof.

T5dmg enhanced MM is like hunting with swine in eco Doesn't help that it was far from maxed either. I wouldn't compare apples and oranges.

Interesting find, did you make a thread on it?

Nah. I just do these tests for my own curiosity from time to time. Think I still may have the video tho.

 

[toad]

Only if you include the enhancers in the calculation wich i dont, did not speak of eco at all just perceived average loot, did not even log the results so its only speculation from my side but i still think its some truth in it.

T5dmg enhanced MM is like hunting with swine in eco Doesn't help that it was far from maxed either. I wouldn't compare apples and oranges.



Nah. I just do these tests for my own curiosity from time to time. Think I still may have the video tho.

 

[shoti]

Style of play is what make diference, oh...and CLD's.

Style of play is what make diference, oh...and CLD's.

If you play hardcore grinding thousnads of peds daily it's obvious unL is beter course saves u MU ( whatever is MA formula for loot)
If u are more casual player u are much beter with L at some MU wchich alow you not freeze same ped's in MU for unL toys.

I was L, then switched for unL. Now I am again L. I changed whole MU i keptn in unL weapons,faps and armors into CLD's. Result is that I hunt same mobs i was hunting as much i was lately ( not much ) and doing much beeter course CLD's dividende in my case cover MU on L items and even leaves something extra.

There is also other thing. Some pppl just hate L and will no switch even if L twin will be at 100 % widely aviable at any amount they need.

 

[ermik]

Style of play is what make diference, oh...and CLD's.

If you play hardcore grinding thousnads of peds daily it's obvious unL is beter course saves u MU ( whatever is MA formula for loot)
If u are more casual player u are much beter with L at some MU wchich alow you not freeze same ped's in MU for unL toys.

I was L, then switched for unL. Now I am again L. I changed whole MU i keptn in unL weapons,faps and armors into CLD's. Result is that I hunt same mobs i was hunting as much i was lately ( not much ) and doing much beeter course CLD's dividende in my case cover MU on L items and even leaves something extra.

There is also other thing. Some pppl just hate L and will no switch even if L twin will be at 100 % widely aviable at any amount they need.

Thats actually not relevant, its like saying UL SIB guns are shit cause i can cover my L Markup with rig oil, or earnings from trades.

My thoughts were more like is there a actual number difference that makes the difference or is it all in the convinience factor when it all boils down.

But the path you mention also works, if we talk about finding other ways.

 

[Hypnotyk]

I don't have the numbers or anything laid out for the benefits of L or UL, but being as an owner of my now 2nd UL gun, I can never go back to L. For me, the main thing is convenience and stability. My first UL gun was an emik t10, and now I own a CB 21. (Currently looking to upgrade to another, higher dps UL gun from my CB21). I hated having to be at the mercy of the market every time I wanted to hunt when I used L weapons. There were weeks that the gun I hunted with fluctuated too much for my liking. Furthermore, I felt that if I didn't use enhancers on my L gun when available, then I wasn't maximizing my time with the limited TT i had in the gun. Once I switched over, I can keep my dps steady and know what I can hunt, and what I cannot. I also have the benefit of selling my L guns that I loot (nowadays the MU on most decent guns is pretty nice ) because I don't need to burn them anymore.

Furthermore, the tiering system allows me to adjust to the playstyle I like. I generally like to hunt bigger mobs, so I slap on enhancers and an amp and crank out 65 DPS with a lvl 24 gun. If I'm low on peds or feel like grinding a lower level mission, I just do an amped run with no enhancers for 40 dps. All with one gun. This is what makes it worth it for me. Convenience, stability, and the ability to tier my gun further.

 

[shoti]

Thats actually not relevant, its like saying UL SIB guns are shit cause i can cover my L Markup with rig oil, or earnings from trades.

My thoughts were more like is there a actual number difference that makes the difference or is it all in the convinience factor when it all boils down.

But the path you mention also works, if we talk about finding other ways.

Other ways was what i meant. Rig + trade is not other way as it need your activity. CLD's doesn't need your atention. In other cases my 1st acapit still stands = CLD's are worse for hardcore pro 8hr/day grinder than UL SIB for same value (MU of ul SIB vs CLD's value )

 

[Strash]

just to clarify some things for people...

i believe and still believe always will believe..... the system is some how involved with our avatar thus to protect system from failing....

that 150ped will come in some form or another at a later date......

we all go on waves just know when to ride high and know when to ride low.

with UNL you can take advantage of any situation - no more mu on weapons.. and focus ped on 'hunting'

unl items gives you the avatar the ability to ride those waves without 'reactive' situations

 

[nonaware]

just to clarify some things for people...

with UNL you can take advantage of any situation - no more mu on weapons.. and focus ped on 'hunting'

unl items gives you the avatar the ability to ride those waves without 'reactive' situations

recently bought a ul corrosive VII because of this.

i no longer have to got to caly every few weeks to stock up on a few hundred ped of chips.

maybe theres a mob that is looting very well or dropping nice things i no longer have to rush to caly and hope a chip can be found on auction.

the slight eco i do lose to it i dont worry about, saved in mu, oil, and thrusters.

its all about convenience and making the most of the limited opportunities i might find.

 

[forgo]

I personally believe UL to be superior for my play. I am un-eco as all can be, but I love my non sib UL.

When I hunt, my budget is generally the same, 1k ped or so, depending on the mission. (usually in 300 ped increments for me, based on the decay of gun and amp)
Years back I fell in love with an as-147 (before the sib changes). It still has a nice rate of fire and damage, with a nice range.

Due to stubbornness, I have been using one I bought a year and some ago since about prof 15 (39 atm).
I have never worried about finding a replacement, getting a gun at the right market price, or having one on-hand at all times.

I originally collected alot of weapon bps to supply myself with (L), turns out I use my UL most of the time still.

For me, max damage is kinda nice, but so is knowing my tiered UL gun is already starting to show some nice colors, and will only get better....in like 10 years perhaps at this rate but still. )

Enhancers are more manageable and reliable with UL as well.

I am overall on hunting, up, barely.. thanks to a couple nice hofs last couple months. (using un-eco UL about 95% of the time)

Armor, I have reversed, being a die hard UL user, (L) armors I find are so much better. But guns, I will always vote UL..with the right gun. )

I love my uneco UL, but a SIB UL isn't even a comparison, Some prices might be a bit higher than we would like, but they cant really be beat at the right level of play for someone, that particular gun whatever it may be, may be a trick to get though. Most I see out there are either the wrong type, or the damage is pretty sub par for how I like to hunt.


The reasons I could think of anyhow, for whatever its worth.

 

[Vedder]

I did pump 150ped into a proteron provider just to do a test again. Before this was compansated, now it isn't.

So loot is no longer based on dmg done???

That's... A huge change.

 

[whiteknut]

So loot is no longer based on dmg done???

That's... A huge change.

It was changed when the 1ped tt weapons first got introduced. Mindark also confirmed that. Loot is only based on mobs health level. So more eco you are, the higher chance you will profit.

 

[minim]

So loot is no longer based on dmg done???

That's... A huge change.

Def. Not! I don't remember how long time we used on the experiment but it was done with a impfapper behind me and while I waited for it to regen I just stood there and took dmg. I never let it regen fully either. Gear used was modmerc+a204 and I think I was in gremlin or it was naked..

 

[toad]

Please give us the source of this info.

It was changed when the 1ped tt weapons first got introduced. Mindark also confirmed that. Loot is only based on mobs health level. So more eco you are, the higher chance you will profit.

 

[whiteknut]

Please give us the source of this info.

give me little time i will find it was one of those q&a threads. Maybe someone can help me find it? It was clearly stated that using UL uneco weapons was not affecting loot in any way, and best thing would be to use eco weapons. (it was posted shortly after the first(if there was more) argo event (CLDs for top loots on argo scouts)

 

[bettlejus]

Loot is only based on mobs health level. So more eco you are, the higher chance you will profit.

This is not true, the truth is:

The more ECO you are the less you lose, smaller will your loot swing be, but don't profit

The only profit in this game is by MU


In other words, if we didn not pay any MU on peds spent we would all have the same return on some Sample

This Sample size is what we make by using more or less ECO weapons

Player 1 has Swine Deluxe
Player 2 has IMPKII

Both players will hit 100% TT return at some point, just that the player with IMPKII will hit it after 100K Ped spent and player with Swine will hit it after 1M peds spend

This is what I am trying to say, based on the assumption that MA don't charges from TT return

 

[whiteknut]

This is not true, the truth is:

The more ECO you are the less you lose, smaller will your loot swing be, but don't profit

The only profit in this game is by MU


In other words, if we didn not pay any MU on peds spent we would all have the same return on some Sample

This Sample size is what we make by using more or less ECO weapons

Player 1 has Swine Deluxe
Player 2 has IMPKII

Both players will hit 100% TT return at some point, just that the player with IMPKII will hit it after 100K Ped spent and player with Swine will hit it after 1M peds spend

This is what I am trying to say, based on the assumption that MA don't charges from TT return

I am not saying that i know the truth and i didnt say you will profit, but there is higher chance to profit. i was just posting what mindark said. But maybe you have recent data on same mob, same amount of mobs killed, where less eco (no markup weapons) is giving out more loot than eco hunting. I doubt.