Real economy into Entropia

[trance]

Hello all.

I may got a nice idea for this game. It is about to build a real economy factory into entropia.

It is just a simply Idea to create 3D items for the game and for real life too.

here a image, showing my idea.


This is just a basic idea, how we can have a virtual job, connected to real stuff. I'm sure, there are a lot more ideas around, how Mindark could build a real economy into the game.

let's talk about real economy into a virtual world. Do you have other ideas?

 

[trance]

This 3D items could be elements to build houses into the game or other items, based on players design ideas.
Possible to get the items also in your reallife. You also could only create items for real life, you may need for other interesting things. Or just to get a gift for someone. Or for making own Statues

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

Why Do Virtual Worlds Even Need Economists?
Other virtual worlds, such as Second Life and Entropia Universe (and unlike EVE Online), use currencies that can be cashed out for real-world dollars and also have economists who work behind the scenes. Guðmundsson's role, however, is as both a spokesman and an analyst. He aims to provide the EVE player community, which numbers over 200,000, with vital information about their trades. He'll then study those trades to learn what insights from a virtual economy can be applied to the real one.

In Entropia Universe, a virtual world in which the exchange rate has been fixed at 10 Project Entropia dollars for every one U.S. dollar, "balancing manager," Magnus Eriksson, has worked for six years tuning the in-game "laws of nature" to maintain a stable, predictable economy.
Because he mostly works behind the scenes, Eriksson's work is not readily apparent to players of Entropia. He says that Entropia plans, however, to make more economic information available to its users. "As our virtual universe strengthens its bonds with the real world, we must constantly remain aware of real-world economics and principles," Eriksson asserts. "This work is critical in preventing digital anarchy, a state we can observe in other areas of the digital universe we call the Internet, where companies and private persons are bewildered by which rules they should relate to, who owns what and what is work time actually worth."

They're on it....and apparently have been all along

 

[San]

Second Life has a 3D designer built in. If it lacks interface or export capabilities, these could be added since the sources are open and several community projects for SL viewers with various added capabilities exist. For a professional designer, of course other tools are available.

The fundamental difference to Entropia is, SL is like a 3D www where everthing appearing within draw distance gets downloaded on the fly. Entropia and most other game worlds are pre-made and already live on everybody's hard drive, only get updated once in a while. I'm not sure how this could work with user creations. You might have to wait for your stuff to appear until it gets through a version update, and then the data volume everybody has to copy gets inflated every time, possibly out of control.

 

[San]

Second Life has a 3D designer built in. If it lacks interface or export capabilities, these could be added since the sources are open and several community projects for SL viewers with various added capabilities exist. For a professional designer, of course other tools are available.

The fundamental difference to Entropia is, SL is like a 3D www where everthing appearing within draw distance gets downloaded on the fly. Entropia and most other game worlds are pre-made and already live on everybody's hard drive, only get updated once in a while. I'm not sure how this could work with user creations. You might have to wait for your stuff to appear until it gets through a version update, and then the data volume everybody has to copy gets inflated every time, possibly growing out of control.

 

[trance]

They're on it....and apparently have been all along

Im sure there is a lot to discuss, about such ideas, and ofc also about all the details and more.
We all may could help Mindark to get such ideas, thats why i start this thread.

There is more:

Why not have a concert hall, where dj's could make party, or bands could make a virtual concert.. of course, you have to buy a ticket for showing the show...

Share your ideas!

 

[trance]

Second Life has a 3D designer built in. If it lacks interface or export capabilities, these could be added since the sources are open and several community projects for SL viewers with various added capabilities exist. For a professional designer, of course other tools are available.

The fundamental difference to Entropia is, SL is like a 3D www where everthing appearing within draw distance gets downloaded on the fly. Entropia and most other game worlds are pre-made and already live on everybody's hard drive, only get updated once in a while. I'm not sure how this could work with user creations. You might have to wait for your stuff to appear until it gets through a version update, and then the data volume everybody has to copy gets inflated every time, possibly out of control.

I be game designer in real life. this is a point to talk about, of sure. But possible to make it run.
Our makeup system is working in this direction.
Everybody can have a unique makup mask. This textures of the mask are procedural loaded. same is possible for 3D meshes as well.

 

[Arangar]

Not sure I get the 3D printer part of this idea, what would be printed? Useful stuff or just plastic decorations a trinkets and stuff?

What I think your saying is more of an asset store where you can sell your created 3D objects, textures etc?
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/

Why would I want to 3D print something I craft ingame? And how would we make 1+1 = 3?

 

[trance]

Not sure I get the 3D printer part of this idea, what would be printed? Useful stuff or just plastic decorations a trinkets and stuff?

What I think your saying is more of an asset store where you can sell your created 3D objects, textures etc?
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/

Why would I want to 3D print something I craft ingame? And how would we make 1+1 = 3?

Good point!

Thats why i told to build house elements.. you don't need it to have also in real life, but if you want you can do so.

It is depending, what the player will design. but a player get the tools into game to create own ideas.

 

[trance]

D'ont only focus at my idea... this thread is about economic ideas for entropia.

 

[San]

I be game designer in real life. this is a point to talk about, of sure. But possible to make it run.
Our makeup system is working in this direction.
Everybody can have a unique makup mask. This textures of the mask are procedural loaded. same is possible for 3D meshes as well.

Yes, but the amount of these things is still fairly limited. And I'm sure in their contingency plan they don't expect everybody to wear a custom mask. It doesn't bog us down just yet only because of this. In SL, everybody has custom stuff, and they have a fairly low limit of avatars that can be on one server at a time because of the sheer amount of data needing to be served. Scaling such a system is anything but straightforward.

 

[trance]

Yes, but the amount of these things is still fairly limited. And I'm sure in their contingency plan they don't expect everybody to wear a custom mask. It doesn't bog us down just yet only because of this. In SL, everybody has custom stuff, and they have a fairly low limit of avatars that can be on one server at a time because of the sheer amount of data needing to be served. Scaling such a system is anything but straightforward.

Of sure a technical point to talk about.
But don't forget, all our systems get faster and faster, so such things are no longer a problem in future.
The procedural load technic would solve this also. So it never need to load all the stuff at everyone. Only the players in near of this objects get it loaded, in most cases entropia work with this tech. We also have a cutting system in all game engines, where far away objects get invisible and no longer rendered.

 

[Arangar]

Good point!

Thats why i told to build house elements.. you don't need it to have also in real life, but if you want you can do so.

It is depending, what the player will design. but a player get the tools into game to create own ideas.

Yea OK I follow you, creative ingame works like masks and patterns etc could be sold as an "irl" product i suppose...but its seems bit far fetched and unlikely to succeed.

 

[trance]

Yea OK I follow you, creative ingame works like masks and patterns etc could be sold as an "irl" product i suppose...but its seems bit far fetched and unlikely to succeed.

The idea of this thread was to bring in some idea, but it don't means to focus only on this. I'm sure there are more ideas how we could build a real economy. So, please, don't only focus at my idea, bring in your ideas too.
I'm sure i be not alone to have some ideas, no matter of good or bad ideas. let's just talk about.

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

You do not need an external transference for job creation.

You need a bigger internal community whom will be driven by needs and desires as dictated by their virtual environment. The same emotions that makes whatever you want to make inside to sell outside will also be present inside the VR, possibly with the exception of "need". But necessity and desire can all be provoked within a closed system just the same as outside. Just need a bigger community and some caps on certain things for it to become real world feasible to trade and make internally. The "big" economy model in my view increases competition and thus makes it harder to thrive as "manufacturers" ( unless you posses unique skills or BP's) and harder for miners and hunters since the markets overflow with access which means every profession with too few exceptions has an abundance to suppliers via hunters, etc.

As community userbase increases demand increases and the caps with enough freedom to invent professions will ensure everyone can either find a niche or compete in smaller pools which means bigger margins. Same for hunters, sweaters, miners, crafters, everyone get a bigger average rather than a rock bottom average for all.

Competition is good - but it lowers prices which would be good if it were not for the fact that now your ores and loot is also worth less cause everyone can buy as cheap and produce as cheaply as you can. Everyone is poor equally which is why you get the so called 1% "issue" Im sorry, unless it is/was theft or cronyism, you just have no right to wag your finger at the 1%.

Over abundance of access drives everything including what you get paid for your ores, mats, items to the smallest margins > "everyone" equally "poor" or cap access and everyone comes to higher average and thats a fact !

Something like that .......

 

[trance]

You do not need an external transference for job creation.

You need a bigger internal community whom will be driven by needs and desires as dictated by their virtual environment. The same emotions that makes whatever you want to make inside to sell outside will also be present inside the VR, possibly with the exception of "need". But necessity and desire can all be provoked within a closed system just the same as outside. Just need a bigger community and some caps on certain things for it to become real world feasible to trade and make internally. The "big" economy model in my view increases competition and thus makes it harder to thrive as "manufacturers" ( unless you posses unique skills or BP's) and harder for miners and hunters since the markets overflow with access which means every profession with too few exceptions has an abundance to suppliers via hunters, etc.

As community userbase increases demand increases and the caps with enough freedom to invent professions will ensure everyone can either find a niche or compete in smaller pools which means bigger margins. Same for hunters, sweaters, miners, crafters, everyone get a bigger average rather than a rock bottom average for all.

Competition is good - but it lowers prices which would be good if it were not for the fact that now your ores and loot is also worth less cause everyone can buy as cheap and produce as cheaply as you can. Everyone is poor equally which is why you get the so called 1% "issue" Im sorry, unless it is/was theft or cronyism, you just have no right to wag your finger at the 1%.

Over abundance of access drives everything including what you get paid for your ores, mats, items to the smallest margins > "everyone" equally "poor" or cap access and everyone comes to higher average and thats a fact !

Something like that .......

Now, there is a big problem. How to increase the player base?

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

Now, there is a big problem. How to increase the player base?

You first need to have the profession "pools" and oversupply issue dealt with before you bring more people.

Otherwise you just have more average poor people than average wealthier people again Sort that out and the global open big trade economy for all (auctions) might not even be that big a deal on enabling to oversupply anymore.

 

[trance]

You first need to have the profession "pools" and oversupply issue dealt with before you bring more people.

Otherwise you just have more average poor people than average wealthier people again Sort that out and the global open big trade economy for all (auctions) might not even be that big a deal on enabling to oversupply anymore.

Thats why we here discusse. It needs a larger profession pool. So it may needs ideas to increase this.

Let's say a DJ could make parties into a concert hall, if he rent it for an event like that. Same for bands.
Some one can use the real life skills to build models.
There is more possible.

Why not have a bar, where you can buy drinks. Barkeepers can craft drinks. the drinks are buffs or other usefully things.
Why we dont need to eat? otherwise we just can walk, or our hit rate is more slow, what ever. This would generate more jobs.

 

[Sionkiewicz]

The bigger issue with trying to run companies within EU is the inability to empower your employees to perform management functions. In essence, an individual avatar must operate 24/7 to manage business entities

All shop functions (stocking, moving equipment, changing signs or displays) must be done by the person holding the deed. All Land areas can only be managed by the deed holder (fill the fertilizer, add/delete DNA, etc). All Warp Ship can only have guest lists and summoning managed by the deed holder. This limits the ability to operate a successful business in a environment that is active 24 hrs a day.

If MA would like to have it's Business owners offer jobs to other EU Citizens, facilities need to be added to allow them to assign positions to manage these functions while not having to give away the deed to them. EU already has game mechanics in place to handle this within the Society module so it should not be a hard item to replicate that and make a Business Module where players could create a Business with related assets and have the ability to hire individuals to work for their company and provide the needed authority to perform needed functions. Employees could also go into this module if they wanted to leave a company or request to join another company.

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

The bigger issue with trying to run companies within EU is the inability to empower your employees to perform management functions. In essence, an individual avatar must operate 24/7 to manage business entities

All shop functions (stocking, moving equipment, changing signs or displays) must be done by the person holding the deed. All Land areas can only be managed by the deed holder (fill the fertilizer, add/delete DNA, etc). All Warp Ship can only have guest lists and summoning managed by the deed holder. This limits the ability to operate a successful business in a environment that is active 24 hrs a day.

If MA would like to have it's Business owners offer jobs to other EU Citizens, facilities need to be added to allow them to assign positions to manage these functions while not having to give away the deed to them. EU already has game mechanics in place to handle this within the Society module so it should not be a hard item to replicate that and make a Business Module where players could create a Business with related assets and have the ability to hire individuals to work for their company and provide the needed authority to perform needed functions. Employees could also go into this module if they wanted to leave a company or request to join another company.

This is what i meant by smaller "pools", ie breaking existing professions or functions as in your examples into many smaller "professions". Thinning out existing professions and functions across a wider field meaning there would be more niches which helps curb oversupply ( not a cure) by traditional eu professions as well as in functions / services.

This raises the bar so the average player in one of a greater number of professions / functions has more income potential as each pool is smaller with many to spread out who does what. When there is a oversupply due to popularity, some in that pool will jump to another and others into another profession which will continuously balance out as there are so many options. So there will always be many feasible professions which as in real life will come and go in demand and popularity BUT critically there are many, and as folks leave one due to over popularity, demand ups again in that same profession/s as the pool decreases in size again. And the same for all the others ^^.

Not breaking existing professions into smaller ones means you when you jump chances are the next professions also jam packed ; ie everyone is on the same few boats making it too heavy and sinks the professions feasibility.

 

[Semti]

What we need is an in game screen that connects to OBS or similar. I doubt it would be too technically challenging.
That would be such an enabler in terms of live talk shows, game streams and music performances.

What better way to attract new players and keep the interest of existing ones, than to provide means for we users to stream content in-world that cannot be accessed anywhere else!

EU certainly does need some love on the social/communal side, but I can quite vividly imagine everyone gathering in a POH to cheer on a stream of some PVP/event or to watch a DJ perform as discussed.
Also install donation system/optional admission price to POH (taxed by MA, naturally) and you've blown wide open the potential for player managed events.

It sounds like I'm advocating that EU become a 3D chatroom/twitch clone. When I put it that way it sounds awful. Thoughts?

 

[trance]

What we need is an in game screen that connects to OBS or similar. I doubt it would be too technically challenging.
That would be such an enabler in terms of live talk shows, game streams and music performances.

What better way to attract new players and keep the interest of existing ones, than to provide means for we users to stream content in-world that cannot be accessed anywhere else!

EU certainly does need some love on the social/communal side, but I can quite vividly imagine everyone gathering in a POH to cheer on a stream of some PVP/event or to watch a DJ perform as discussed.
Also install donation system/optional admission price to POH (taxed by MA, naturally) and you've blown wide open the potential for player managed events.

It sounds like I'm advocating that EU become a 3D chatroom/twitch clone. When I put it that way it sounds awful. Thoughts?

Would like to see such things. the more ppl play this game, the better for us all.