Smoking in parks

[Shade]

Let's dig up an old discussion, shall we?

I just this moment heard a report on NBC News that the city of Montery Park has now banned smoking at all public parks in the city.

Don't you think we can all agree that this is getting just a little ridiculous?

 

[MudKicker]

Yup, I totally agree!

 

[wanda]

A little ridiculous?

I would move and invest my taxes into another area

 

[ESTd1862]

That's realy running peoples lives and tel them what to do......

In our country (HOLLAND) a likewise discussion resulted in a law against smoking while waiting for the train:

A long, highup ashtray with a few holes

It smokes all the time because of the wind floating thru it loooool

Also not shown on the picture the big traffic jam near the train station which causes much more smoke & polution


To smoke or not to smoke that's the question.......

 

[Skam]

Humm a smokinglaw outside? That DOES seem a little silly. After all a park is big enuff and definitly air-conditioned to not beeing bothered with second-hand smoking

 

[ultimababe]

Yeah, it's way out of order...

I always wonder why drinking doesnt get as much flak as this

I mean, don't get me wrong, with me being of the Celtic variety, I don't mind putting away a few whiskys

Both are equally damaging to your health and addictive.. yet the government choose to go ape shit over a ciggy

Maybe smokers will be able to buy little hats with air purifiers attached to the rim of them, allowing them to smoke in public without affecting nearby non-smokers... because let's face it (in Scotland anyway) the government makes waaaay too much profit from tax on ciggies, to just, give it all up

Aye

 

[Skam]

well acctually drinking in public isnt allowed in Norway either.. (cept for bars offcourse!) And its like that in many countries

The thing is, like I explained in the "smoking in bars"-thread that a smoker might influence the health of the people around them and so on..
But I strongly doubt a non-smoker would have any problem with someone smoking in a park. That law Montery Park made was just... silly, and if I lived there I would strongly think about moving away because of that law, since after all that seems more of trying to control people's habits more then the no smoking in bars law, since outside... who would have a problem with you smoking? The trees?

 

[Camilla-]

Well as long as people use ashtrays in the same amount they use dustbins in the park, then I think it is stupid. As mentioned before in this thread, cars also polutes outside....

 

[Suicide]

The thing is, like I explained in the "smoking in bars"-thread that a smoker might influence the health of the people around them and so on..

This is one of the biggest pieces of bad science ever. There have been hundreds of studies and NOT ONE has concluded that second hand smoke causes health problems.

There are so many groups out there to ban smoking because it causes lung cancer to the people who are standing in the vicinity. Its all bogus. Not sure if you get Penn and Tellers Bullshit a TV show here in USA that debunks rumors like this. They did extensive research and found that the US health agency lied in its first reports. Then retracted the original report saying some of thier numbers were a "bit" off. RE-releasing the report to show there in no more risk of second hand smoke then standing in the street in a major city. But all these groups jumped on the bandwagon of the first report, and as we all know death and gloom sells better than facts.

Sorry... smoker... try to avoid getting smoke in peoples faces just to be polite, not to save their lives... lives in a state where smoking in a bar or restuarant are illegal. So this story pissses me off even more.

Suicide

 

[Leafren]

You wanna debate about all the cancers/conditions of which it is proven second handed smoking increases the risk to get them significantly? Using the argument that it isn't proven yet smoking causes lung cancer in defense of smoking is like saying 'drugs don't cause herpes so what's all the commotion about', imho.

As an idealist I would say the more toxic fumes they ban from society the better (including car fumes, if only enough money was invested into hydrogen engines etc but some lobby groups won't like that).

My more pragmatic view is: ban smoking from all public buildings. As banning it from the street will not work I think.

Overall, I'm in favour of banning smoking from a park: as a statement and as an anti-littering/poluting act. Actually I think the latter might be the main reason.

PS. You're evil Shade!

 

[Svetlana]

I'm going to disagree and agree Leafren.
As you stated, there are many things that pollute the environment and our quality of living (such as vehicle emissions). To ban smoking in outdoor areas (such as parks) seems more like an odd vengeance on behalf of certain political figures rather than a logical policy.... We aren't banning automobiles yet they contribute to poor health just as much (even moreso) than second-hand smoke in an "every day" type of atmosphere such as that of a park.

so why are we not banning automobiles? Well, of course you can all figure out why But lobbyists across the globe continually offer big dollars to politicians so as to keep from manufacturing hybrid vehicles on a mass scale... so basically politicians won't go near vehicle emissions unless they aboslutely must.

Smoking... well that's somehow different. Most of us recognize the helath hazards that go along with smoking (and second-hand smoking). And politicians are more apt to jump on the anti-smoking bandwagon b/c it is more acceptable...

thus smoking becomes something of a red herring here, distracting us from the bigger pollution problems at large.

 

[Leafren]

As for the argument: 'cars pollute too'.

Why pointing at another source of pollution to excuse smoking? I really don't understand arguments like this. To make the world a better place we'll all have to start with ourselves.

 

[Svetlana]

As for the argument: 'cars pollute too'.

Why pointing at another source of pollution to excuse smoking? I really don't understand arguments like this. To make the world a better place we'll all have to start with ourselves.

How often do you sit next to some1 in a park who is smoking? How many ppl, say out of 50 on a street, are smoking around you in an average day? In the States, in my town, I would conservatively estimate under 5 ppl out of 50 will be smoking on the street.... more often than not ppl I see that smoke publicly do so in their cars.

now, how many cars are around you Leaf? It's all a matter or priority imo... there are thousands of cars around those of us that live in urban areas every minute of the day...

 

[Skam]

Suicide, wether or not smoking is a healthhazard is a discussion we have allready made in this forum and I wont get into it again. Now there are reports that are proving that second-hand smoking is a health-hazard, and some prove otherwise, If you search the net you'll see ALOT of those reports, for AND against. And if I might add, for not many years ago they had the same discussion, but that about if smoking itself was unhealthy.

And about indoors smoking, I wont discuss this further as I would most likely end up as in the other thread:
Find here: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=755&highlight=Smoking+bars
Where the whole thread is just repeating itself over and over.
Read that if you want mine and others' opinion on this.

Now about OUTDOORS smoking, If they put ashtrays and garbagecans in the park,easy accessible, I think they wont really have a problem.

 

[wanda]

Smoking's cool

most of the planet have cleaned up vehicle polution a lot - it's just the USA that likes it's V8's for nipping down to the shops lol

 

[Devil Doll]

most of the planet have cleaned up vehicle polution a lot - it's just the USA that likes it's V8's for nipping down to the shops lol

The USA is on it's way as well. I just heard that SUV and Large Truck sales are down a very large percentage this year.

DD

 

[Leafren]

Svetlana,

Agreed. It might not seem like that but smoking is definatly not the main thing I'm worried about in this world. It's quite low on the list

On the other hand: all bits help. There's a huge problem it's addicting, if it wasn't it was much easier to ban it I think. But now you're going to upset a lot of addicted people (who bring in loads of tax money on top) so they are going to feel singled out...

I just hope one day it will be really uncool to smoke. So the youth stays away from it. Because I haven't seen a single kid yet who didn't start smoking only to be part of 'the group'.

 

[Skam]

Btw abut banning cars.
I would like to see that the day hydrogen/methanol-driven engines are just as common and cheap as todays cars, acctually.

But a fact is: Smoking dont really do anything for you, unless your addicted allready. Cars on the other hand have a place in todays society as something useful.

 

[Leafren]

How often do you sit next to some1 in a park who is smoking? How many ppl, say out of 50 on a street, are smoking around you in an average day? In the States, in my town, I would conservatively estimate under 5 ppl out of 50 will be smoking on the street.... more often than not ppl I see that smoke publicly do so in their cars.

now, how many cars are around you Leaf? It's all a matter or priority imo... there are thousands of cars around those of us that live in urban areas every minute of the day...

Again agreed car fumes is worse. But so what. All bits help if they can start with smoking because it's easier to do so and move to hydrogen cars later that's fine to me.

Maybe out of proportion but just to get my point across: Would you say it's ok for me to go capture an iraquee and lock him away without any access to jurists etc. because he is the brother of some guy who talked to some guy who said the word bomb in Arabian? Thereby completely ignoring the convention of Geneva.

In the 'cars pollute too' logic they shouldn't sue me for it, afterall I know one gouvernment which does it on much larger scale and they should be priotorised.

(And please don't take this as some anti-USA rant, for anyone who thought that. I spent 3 minutes thinking to come up with that example damnit )

I realise my views are very idealistic and might not be very realistic. I wouldnt' want to be anything else then an idealist though

 

[Svetlana]

Argh- ok here's my thing with the non-smoking OUTSIDE in parks....

It is rather too idealistic. I know Leaf, we must agree to disagree on this one I just find that there are far more issues that are more imperative to solve immediately (as you suggested above leafren). To ban smoking in a park is ridiculously silly... is it done for censorship so that little kids can't see ppl smoking perhaps If so, then let's ban smoking all together, inside houses, etc ... really, just how far can we take it if it isn't allowed in a park???? It's like living in a police-state

I believe that the politicians that have pushed for strong laws against smoking OUTSIDE (and inside but that's another thread) have done so b/c they have accepted large amounts of lobbying dollars... there are other things that ought to be more prioritized than banning smoking outside... I see my tax dollars being well spent by some politician that desperately wanted to go on a trip to Cabo or the Virgin Islands

 

[Darkaner]

If so, then let's ban smoking all together, inside houses, etc ... really, just how far can we take it if it isn't allowed in a park???? It's like living in a police-state

I'm all for a total ban. We wouldn't have a problem if smokers kept their bad habit to themselves, but they are obviusly not mature enough to realize that their favorite drug casues harm to others when used in public.

And about cars... If I'm at the bus stop one morning and 20 cars drive by, I hardly notice any toxic fumes. If one smoker comes up next to me and starts smoking, I will notice it (I will have a hard time breathing, my clothes will smell like crap the whole day, etc).

 

[Faustian]

Again agreed car fumes is worse. But so what. All bits help if they can start with smoking because it's easier to do so and move to hydrogen cars later that's fine to me.

Maybe out of proportion but just to get my point across: Would you say it's ok for me to go capture an iraquee and lock him away without any access to jurists etc. because he is the brother of some guy who talked to some guy who said the word bomb in Arabian? Thereby completely ignoring the convention of Geneva.

In the 'cars pollute too' logic they shouldn't sue me for it, afterall I know one gouvernment which does it on much larger scale and they should be priotorised.

(And please don't take this as some anti-USA rant, for anyone who thought that. I spent 3 minutes thinking to come up with that example damnit )

I realise my views are very idealistic and might not be very realistic. I wouldnt' want to be anything else then an idealist though

LOL we've probably done that in US

 

[Sarah]

Make smoking illegal... Why not? Most people are too stupid to read the warnings on the boxes anyway. Besides, why let some addictive destructive drugs being legal while some are not?

 

[Devil Doll]

Make smoking illegal... Why not? Most people are too stupid to read the warnings on the boxes anyway. Besides, why let some addictive destructive drugs being legal while some are not?

Right, just like Alcohol, Perscription Drugs, Caffiene, Chocolate and the like.

Make it all illegal so we are all unfeeling robots under complete control of the elected officials, who by the way, represent the majority, which happens to be made up of the most ignorant and unedjucated portion of the population.

Yeah, that sounds like fun...

DD

 

[Skam]

Make it all illegal so we are all unfeeling robots under complete control of the elected officials, who by the way, represent the majority, which happens to be made up of the most ignorant and unedjucated portion of the population.

Yeah, that sounds like fun...

DD

Seen Equilibrium lately?

 

[Svetlana]

Right, just like Alcohol, Perscription Drugs, Caffiene, Chocolate and the like.

Make it all illegal so we are all unfeeling robots under complete control of the elected officials, who by the way, represent the majority, which happens to be made up of the most ignorant and unedjucated portion of the population.

Yeah, that sounds like fun...

DD

LMAO- Ya! That's what I'm getting at! If we make smoking illegal, then what about cheeseburgers? What about wearing heels that hurt your feet while standing doing a retail job for 8 hrs a day?? And how about all of those kids who sit in daycare without seeing the light of day more than an hour a day while their parents are at work... tsk tsk tsk.
The point is.... there are things only WE can take responsibility for and control imo. We can all agree to disagree.

And Darkener, frankly the fumes from cars does bother me, esp from trucks. It is awful. We have emissions testing here where I live, of course, but often times cars will drive with poor emissions until their tests are due... in the mean time I need to breathe in their crappy fumes that imho is far worse than some1 smoking in a park.
Ah- and my initial point earlier in this thread was that I personally fail to see the importance of a park ban... I literally rarely see ppl smoking in public places.... other than bars. Whereas cars are all over all the time

 

[Darkaner]

My point was that smokers cause harm to others, maybe not to you, but to me and I guess other people. It's not about you, the smoker, it's about everyone around you.

So no, we shouldn't ban cheesburgers because you wont get lung cancer if I eat one.

 

[Devil Doll]

My point was that smokers cause harm to others, maybe not to you, but to me and I guess other people. It's not about you, the smoker, it's about everyone around you.

So no, we shouldn't ban cheesburgers because you wont get lung cancer if I eat one.

But I might have to sit next to your fat disgusting ass on the plane...

DD

 

[wanda]

My point was that smokers cause harm to others, maybe not to you, but to me and I guess other people. It's not about you, the smoker, it's about everyone around you.

So no, we shouldn't ban cheesburgers because you wont get lung cancer if I eat one.

but it would be okay to ban booze then? That causes many problems like domestic violence, assaults, crime etc.

 

[Darkaner]

But I might have to sit next to your fat disgusting ass on the plane...

Ok I'll skip the cheese next time. For you.

but it would be okay to ban booze then? That causes many problems like domestic violence, assaults, crime etc.

Where I live there are huge taxes on alcohol, you can only buy it from special government stores and you can't drink in public places, just because of those reasons.