Help: Using the right weapon for my skill

[Azuris]

Hi All,

So I've been referencing the SIB charts and Weapon Compare tools but still super unclear on what weapon I should be using for my skills.

For example as a lvl25 Laser Sniper (profession) what would the best weapon for that which gives good eco+skill bonuses? Should I take into account the hit ability as well which is significantly lower. e.g. lvl15 Hit.

Any tips/links/suggestions would be most appreciated.

 

[johan roadkill]

imo at lvl25 you're skilling fast enough that the eco lost using an unmaxed weapon despite SIB isn't worth it...unless you have the budget and will to skill really fast without ESIs

so I'd say, use maxed weapons where SIB has stopped

 

[Immortal]

With the new system, you can use sib weapons before maxed without penalty.

As a guide, I would look at the dps of the weapon and switch when your dps with the new weapon is greater than the one you are currently using.

 

[Count0]

With the new system, you can use sib weapons before maxed without penalty.
...

Uhm not sure about this one, reason below:

Developer Notes #11 - Loot 2.0
Loot Changes
....
Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors. This system is intended to reward game knowledge, which has traditionally been an important and unique aspect of success in Entropia Universe, and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization.

 

[Venture Bros]

Hi All,

For example as a lvl25 Laser Sniper (profession) what would the best weapon for that which gives good eco+skill bonuses? Should I take into account the hit ability as well which is significantly lower. e.g. lvl15 Hit.

Yes. You're basically your lower of the 2 when you look at levels. If you can hit with a gun at level 25 but can only dmg with 15, then you're 15, same with the opposite. Get a gun that says it needs 5 levels lower than your current level. So if your lower of the 2 is 15, then use a level 10 gun, and it'll be maxed 100% of the time.

 

[Azuris]

Yes. You're basically your lower of the 2 when you look at levels. If you can hit with a gun at level 25 but can only dmg with 15, then you're 15, same with the opposite. Get a gun that says it needs 5 levels lower than your current level. So if your lower of the 2 is 15, then use a level 10 gun, and it'll be maxed 100% of the time.

This makes a lot of sense. Thanks everyone for your tips!

 

[Immortal]

Uhm not sure about this one, reason below:

Developer Notes #11 - Loot 2.0
Loot Changes
....
Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors. This system is intended to reward game knowledge, which has traditionally been an important and unique aspect of success in Entropia Universe, and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization.

You should test it, noting the difference between TT return and mystical 'non shrapnel' return

 

[Lefty]

Loot 2.0 and the armor decay changes that came with it make hunting sustainably a whole lot simpler. Armor decay now corresponds to damage deflected, with no minimum decay per hit. Armor and healing costs are in some nebulous way factored into eco by the game. Hunting eco now affects only loot "quality" (rarity? or??), not loot quantity (TT value); the fun loots are mostly absurdly rare, so for most of us, they don't really matter - eco has become something fun to strive for, not a spending consideration any more.

All that said, I'm in agreement with Venture above. He pretty much nailed the recommendations.

[Afterthought: overkill is NOT reflected in the new eco mechanic. Overkill is just wasted ammo/decay.]

 

[Immortal]

[Afterthought: overkill is NOT reflected in the new eco mechanic. Overkill is just wasted ammo/decay.]

False.
Too short.

 

[wizz]

Hi All,

So I've been referencing the SIB charts and Weapon Compare tools but still super unclear on what weapon I should be using for my skills.

For example as a lvl25 Laser Sniper (profession) what would the best weapon for that which gives good eco+skill bonuses? Should I take into account the hit ability as well which is significantly lower. e.g. lvl15 Hit.

Any tips/links/suggestions would be most appreciated.

You could also have a look at it from a different perspective.
You now base your weapon choice on skill. This is good to know your max weapon size.

But an idea could be to look at it from 2 other sides as well.

1) What weapon would be suited for my pedcard/cashflow?
2) What weapon would be suited for mob X for the mission I want to finish?

Being level 25 doesnt always mean you have to use a matching lvl 25 weapon.

For example if you just want to grind the foul iron mission, you just might want to grab a smaller gun.
Also if you have just 50 ped on your pedcard, you surely dont want a weapon maxed for your level.

So, take into account those 2 questions as well.

Also, are you after an (UL) weapon of just (L)?

[Afterthought: overkill is NOT reflected in the new eco mechanic. Overkill is just wasted ammo/decay.]

Overkill is for the largest part returned in loot.
So it's not a complete waste at all.

But overkilling does have some disadvantages.
By overkilling you spend more to kill a mob.
Meaning if you want to kill 1000 mobs, it will cost you more to complete the mission.
Calculating with a overall return of 95%, this means that only 95% of your overkill dmg will be returned in loot.
So in the long run, you will lose extra by overkilling.
Your general tt% return will not be affected though.

 

[Azuris]

Hi Wizz,

Some good considerations.

Using the right weapon for the mob makes sense. Though is there a glorious chart that states the best weapon against certain mobs?

I guess what I'm looking for is to use the most efficient weapon I can for my skills AND find the mob that matches that weapon. I have an UL weapon but I'm not efficient at using it yet... so willing to grind with more L weapons first until I get there. Though I do realise I could still do that using Bukins on youngs for a long long time but I'd get pretty bored and stop playing if I had to do that

 

[Anthas]

As a general rule of thumb, it’s best to be at 12-20 seconds per kill. Considering your average reload time is 1 second, with a 12-20 second kill, overkill damage will be under 8% of your total kill cost. This also limits damage taken and mob regen to further decrease your kill cost. Use that as a general marker to find best weapon for a particular mob. Take real time dps and divide that into mob hp. This will give you your time to kill excluding crits and evaded shots. If you fall in 12-20 seconds as your result, you’re good

 

[Kerham]

I have an UL weapon but I'm not efficient at using it yet

I see you're an older player, so don't be upset I am asking this: are you confident on your understanding of SIB system? (SIB stands for "skill increase bonus"). For these weapons which work on various levels, you should use them when the skill increase bonus is "not anymore". That is, you "maxed" the weapon. You don't need any chart, is written there, in the item stats. (According to what MA stated, as per Immortal's interpretation, you could try to use unmaxed weapons or close to be maxed weapons, in order to benefit from the skill increase bonus, but for me this represents a risk). (As opposed to mining where there is no decisive penalty from being "in SIB". Faps should also not be used until not fully maxed.)

If your ul weapon is a "skill bonus never" weapon, those max at lvl100. These are reffered to as "non-SIB". Nomatter if is jester d-1, ep-40 or adj v1, all of them max at lvl100 per respective hit&dmg lvl. (Side note, a maxed weapon is considered, as written in the stats, both for hit and damage. So if you have hit maxed dmg unmaxed, still a nogo. Although if you do want to risk, hit is the vital one and should absolutely be maxed).

That from the skill perspective. As budget, aim for 1000 kills (3k would be better). Cost per kill is roughly Stamina/3, in pecs. So a 300 stamina mob costs 100 pecs, 1 ped, roughly. (yes you need a scanner from the tt, is vital).

Aim for 10 to 15 shots/kill if enough health on the mob (basically to give RNG enough chances to factor in per each loot event the default miss chance, around 8%)(hard to respect if the mob is 20hp though but at that level that is the last concern lol).

Aim for a mob which lets you kill without stopping to heal during the combat.

This should cover the basics.

 

[Lefty]

Overkill is for the largest part returned in loot.
So it's not a complete waste at all.

But overkilling does have some disadvantages.
By overkilling you spend more to kill a mob.
Meaning if you want to kill 1000 mobs, it will cost you more to complete the mission.
Calculating with a overall return of 95%, this means that only 95% of your overkill dmg will be returned in loot.
So in the long run, you will lose extra by overkilling.
Your general tt% return will not be affected though.

So, if I hunt sabakuma hatchling with a 100 damage per shot rifle, will my TT return remain 95%?
Just asking.

 

[Lefty]

I see you're an older player, so don't be upset I am asking this: are you confident on your understanding of SIB system? (SIB stands for "skill increase bonus"). For these weapons which work on various levels, you should use them when the skill increase bonus is "not anymore". That is, you "maxed" the weapon. You don't need any chart, is written there, in the item stats. (According to what MA stated, as per Immortal's interpretation, you could try to use unmaxed weapons or close to be maxed weapons, in order to benefit from the skill increase bonus, but for me this represents a risk). (As opposed to mining where there is no decisive penalty from being "in SIB". Faps should also not be used until not fully maxed.)

If your ul weapon is a "skill bonus never" weapon, those max at lvl100. These are reffered to as "non-SIB". Nomatter if is jester d-1, ep-40 or adj v1, all of them max at lvl100 per respective hit&dmg lvl. (Side note, a maxed weapon is considered, as written in the stats, both for hit and damage. So if you have hit maxed dmg unmaxed, still a nogo. Although if you do want to risk, hit is the vital one and should absolutely be maxed).

That from the skill perspective. As budget, aim for 1000 kills (3k would be better). Cost per kill is roughly Stamina/3, in pecs. So a 300 stamina mob costs 100 pecs, 1 ped, roughly. (yes you need a scanner from the tt, is vital).

Aim for 10 to 15 shots/kill if enough health on the mob (basically to give RNG enough chances to factor in per each loot event the default miss chance, around 8%)(hard to respect if the mob is 20hp though but at that level that is the last concern lol).

Aim for a mob which lets you kill without stopping to heal during the combat.

This should cover the basics.

Just a note: Item stats say a weapon or tool is maxed when you ENTER its skilling bonus period, not when you LEAVE it which is what players tend to mean by "maxed".

 

[wizz]

So, if I hunt sabakuma hatchling with a 100 damage per shot rifle, will my TT return remain 95%?
Just asking.

no, it's capped. There is a maximum a mob will return in loot.

Me Really Never has tested this. He can tell were the cap is.
(I forgot)

 

[Immortal]

no, it's capped. There is a maximum a mob will return in loot.

Me Really Never has tested this. He can tell were the cap is.
(I forgot)

Information I received in oldskool times was the cap for regen was around 500%, so it would make sense if that was applied, however I hunt gallard and shit and make money on imk2. Go figure.

 

[wizz]

Information I received in oldskool times was the cap for regen was around 500%, so it would make sense if that was applied, however I hunt gallard and shit and make money on imk2. Go figure.

I just did some experimenting on 10 HP punies with a calytrek spirit I (does 62 dmg)
It actually worked quite well. I even managed to profit. (did a 4000 mob test)
One very noticeable difference from using a 20 dmg gun is the loot composition.
With the 20 dmg gun I got a nice loot composition, getting oils and components in loot.
But with the 62dmg gun I got 100% shrapnel. Not a single oil.

Next I could test with a dante on it, making it 93 dmg.
Lets see how that goes. loot should be 50% higher. If not, it's because of the cap.

 

[Kerham]

Just a note: Item stats say a weapon or tool is maxed when you ENTER its skilling bonus period, not when you LEAVE it which is what players tend to mean by "maxed".

Nope. At 10/10 it says "not anymore". That is "maxed".

 

[Darkaruki]

That from the skill perspective. As budget, aim for 1000 kills (3k would be better). Cost per kill is roughly Stamina/3, in pecs. So a 300 stamina mob costs 100 pecs, 1 ped, roughly. (yes you need a scanner from the tt, is vital).

Or just visit EntropiaWiki

 

[Lefty]

Nope. At 10/10 it says "not anymore". That is "maxed".

Yes it does. And there is a line elsewhere in Item Info that gives a percentage to "maxed" or very similar wording (can't run EU from this comp to check that). That percentage reaches 100% when the avatar enters that weapon's skilling period, not when it leaves it.

I've seen quite a few rookies mix that "max" up with the "max" you and I mean when we say "maxed", so I like to try to clarify that.

[EDIT] My bad, the line is "Skilling progress ...%" and does not use the word "max". That part trots in via suggestion by the uses of "max" farther down the page. Carry on.

 

[Lefty]

I just did some experimenting on 10 HP punies with a calytrek spirit I (does 62 dmg)
It actually worked quite well. I even managed to profit. (did a 4000 mob test)
One very noticeable difference from using a 20 dmg gun is the loot composition.
With the 20 dmg gun I got a nice loot composition, getting oils and components in loot.
But with the 62dmg gun I got 100% shrapnel. Not a single oil.

Next I could test with a dante on it, making it 93 dmg.
Lets see how that goes. loot should be 50% higher. If not, it's because of the cap.

V. nice test, v. nice results. I'm thinking Shrapnel is perhaps the lowest possible "loot quality", and an all-shrap loot would reflect use of what the game determines is an "inefficient" setup. I really should quit buying fun toys and switch back to Chon...

I really enjoyed ignoring overkill last time I did the gibnib bonus daily. My results were similar except that my 10 kills is a useless sample size.